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Moola
Aug 16, 2006

Leperflesh posted:

As an amateur woodworker, I could totally make that table, that chair, that cabinet, etc. Actually, I could make it out of real wood instead of particle board, and custom fit it to your specs. I already have invested in the tools necessary, and the time would be an enjoyable hobby for me so I wouldn't really keep track, you know? I'm also not really considering the time I've spent figuring out what tools to buy, and how to operate them safely, nor am I really considering the space I've dedicated to them, or the cost and effort of maintaining them, or the time I spent making mistakes and getting bad results, because when you do a hobby, those things are all just part of the package.

So this means making your own furniture is comparable or cheaper to buying it! Wheeee! You could make all your clothes if you just get a sewing machine and spend time learning how! You could never buy a car again if you just learn how to maintain the one you have, get some tools, and dedicate one saturday every two or three months to working on your car in the driveway! Why would you spend five dollars on a loaf of bread when you can just bake bread? Did you know you could raise chickens, and then your eggs are freeee????


OK I'm going a bit too far here, sorry, sorry. But seriously, the "just 3d print it" thing seems to come up in a lot of TG threads and it's pretty annoying for people who aren't interested in trying to do that. It's a cool hobby and I'm delighted many people enjoy it; it's not a reasonable argumentative tactic to prove your posting enemy is totally wrong about the costs of playing a miniatures game to point out that there might be a pathway to cheaper options if they adopt a new side-hobby.

Finally:

Please don't suggest or recommend to people to 3d-printing copies of actual Games Workshop models. Without making any judgements about the morality: it's a legal morass we don't want to get into on SA. I don't care if you whisper about it via PMs or on your discords or whatnot, let's just avoid discussing it here. Non-copyright-violating proxy models are fine, if you want to share STLs of some Armor Astronaut Warriors or some kind of Fascist Future Fighting Force Tank or whatever I don't care, as long as they don't have suspiciously recognizable pauldrons. The image quoted here is clearly a GW rhino and therefore not kosher.

I'm going to 3d print a Bland Raider and there's nothing you can do about it

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moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



One thing everyone can agree on is that it's given rise to an absolutely fantastic array of obtuse references to copyrighted names.

Signal
Dec 10, 2005

Virtual Russian posted:

I'm going to a Net Epic Armageddon tournament next month. I'm toying around with 3k points lists. Here is what I'm tentatively taking:

Regimental HQ w/ Hydra 525pts

Mechanized Infantry 450pts w/ Hydra

Infantry 250pts

Artillery Battery 250pts - 3 Bombard

Storm Trooper w/ chimera 300pts

Rough Rider Platoon 150pts

Rough Rider Platoon 150pts

Sentinels 100pts

Warlord Titan 825pts

The list has some pretty big flaws, mainly no air cover and a hopeless lack of activations, but it does put some very tough formations into action. I'm not too concerned about sending a super competitive list, mostly I just want to have fun. However, I want to avoid getting absolutely clowned on, as that would not be fun. I'm curious as to folks thoughts on this list.

While it will not help with activations, I'd consider dropping the sentinel formation to give the storm troopers Valkyries, and switch the artillery to manticores for the disrupt.

Z the IVth
Jan 28, 2009

The trouble with your "expendable machines"
Fun Shoe

Moola posted:

I'm going to 3d print a Bland Raider and there's nothing you can do about it

Discovered by Arkhan Land's oft ignored sibling, Bobby Bland.

Ropes4u
May 2, 2009

Improbable Lobster posted:

Welcome to femboyhammer, today I'll be 3d printing and assembling an ork fort while cosplaying as an eldar

There is some girl making 100k a year pretending to be a dog so I wouldn’t be surprised if people would pay to watch you print stuff while cosplaying in your bare feet.

Ropes4u fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Oct 10, 2021

Bottom Liner
Feb 15, 2006


a specific vein of lasagna

Ropes4u posted:

There is some girl making 100k a year pretending to be a dog

Lol try a week

Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB


Bottom Liner posted:

Lol try a week

For a good percentage less I try being a good employee. You want give me a 100k to attempt to lick my own balls and piss on a houseplant I’m all game.

Virtual Russian
Sep 15, 2008

Signal posted:

While it will not help with activations, I'd consider dropping the sentinel formation to give the storm troopers Valkyries, and switch the artillery to manticores for the disrupt.

While I agree disrupt is very powerful, I do find just 3 manticores really suffer from slow to reload. Also I absolutely love ignore cover on bombards, it just always seems to come in handy.

Also I know in my heart stormtroopers are better in valks, but getting that extra activation felt mandatory. I was considering scraping them for regular infantry and upgrading the sentinels to thunderbolts.

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord

Ropes4u posted:

There is some girl making 100k a year pretending to be a dog so I wouldn’t be surprised if people would pay to watch you print stuff while cosplaying in your bare feet.

If I could make that money I'd be doing that right now instead of posting or possibly while posting

Moola
Aug 16, 2006

Z the IVth posted:

Discovered by Arkhan Land's oft ignored sibling, Bobby Bland.

:hmmyes:

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord

Crab Dad posted:

For a good percentage less I try being a good employee. You want give me a 100k to attempt to lick my own balls and piss on a houseplant I’m all game.

Yeah I did more embarrassing stuff when I had a retail job for like 1/10th of that

Electric Hobo
Oct 22, 2008


Grimey Drawer
Does anyone know what the 4 status tokens in Kill Team actually are for? I'm making myself some custom tokens, and I can't figure out if I actually need these for anything.

berzerkmonkey
Jul 23, 2003

Virtual Russian posted:

I'm going to a Net Epic Armageddon tournament next month. I'm toying around with 3k points lists. Here is what I'm tentatively taking:

Regimental HQ w/ Hydra 525pts

Mechanized Infantry 450pts w/ Hydra

Infantry 250pts

Artillery Battery 250pts - 3 Bombard

Storm Trooper w/ chimera 300pts

Rough Rider Platoon 150pts

Rough Rider Platoon 150pts

Sentinels 100pts

Warlord Titan 825pts

The list has some pretty big flaws, mainly no air cover and a hopeless lack of activations, but it does put some very tough formations into action. I'm not too concerned about sending a super competitive list, mostly I just want to have fun. However, I want to avoid getting absolutely clowned on, as that would not be fun. I'm curious as to folks thoughts on this list.
IMO storm troopers in a chimera are kind of a waste. The valk is probably better, as potentially stated. If you're going to have a three model artillery unit, you'll want to add a hydra. Anyone with flyers is going to zip in and suppress at least one, if not break the unit in one fell swoop. The sentinels are good for ground screening though.

The warlord is a lot of points tied up into one model. Expect smart players to totally disregard it and just wear down your smaller units as they are easy targets.

mango sentinel
Jan 5, 2001

by sebmojo

Ropes4u posted:

There is some girl making 100k a year pretending to be a dog so I wouldn’t be surprised if people would pay to watch you print stuff while cosplaying in your bare feet.

There is some talent agency making that money. The girl likely sees a small percentage.

Anyways I would subscribe to femboyhammer.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Electric Hobo posted:

Does anyone know what the 4 status tokens in Kill Team actually are for? I'm making myself some custom tokens, and I can't figure out if I actually need these for anything.

Concealed and Engaged, double sided to show if a unit has been activated or not
Wounded
Overwatch

Bottom Liner
Feb 15, 2006


a specific vein of lasagna
Speaking of, does anyone have a better graphic or reference sheet for teaching LoS/Cover? The rulebook's text and images are pretty awful.

Electric Hobo
Oct 22, 2008


Grimey Drawer

mllaneza posted:

Concealed and Engaged, double sided to show if a unit has been activated or not
Wounded
Overwatch
I have Concealed and Engaged on 4 faces of the token, Injured and "Carrying an objective" on the other two.
It's the flame, crosshairs, !, and lightning bolt, that I don't know what means.

Floppychop
Mar 30, 2012

Electric Hobo posted:

I have Concealed and Engaged on 4 faces of the token, Injured and "Carrying an objective" on the other two.
It's the flame, crosshairs, !, and lightning bolt, that I don't know what means.

I think Crosshairs is for overwatch.

As for flame and lightning bolt, I think they're just there to use if there model/faction abilities and you need something to represent?

Virtual Russian
Sep 15, 2008

berzerkmonkey posted:

IMO storm troopers in a chimera are kind of a waste. The valk is probably better, as potentially stated. If you're going to have a three model artillery unit, you'll want to add a hydra. Anyone with flyers is going to zip in and suppress at least one, if not break the unit in one fell swoop. The sentinels are good for ground screening though.

The warlord is a lot of points tied up into one model. Expect smart players to totally disregard it and just wear down your smaller units as they are easy targets.

I don't disagree with any of this. I have used Stormtroopers in chimera before (but mostly in minigeddon) and gotten a good days work out of them, but they are nowhere near as good as they are in valks. You are 100% correct about the warlord, but on the upside an unmolested BTS is not the worst thing, I just have to make sure every turn with it counts.

Unless I've totally missed something I didn't think you could add company upgrades to support formations? If I'm wrong on that I'd 100% move a hydra to the battery.

E. Nesbit
Mar 18, 2009

Eat two dicks and call me in the morning.

Floppychop posted:

I think Crosshairs is for overwatch.

As for flame and lightning bolt, I think they're just there to use if there model/faction abilities and you need something to represent?

It's handy to have something to mark when you've waved your icon or blown your horn, and there are some tac ops that require you to drop tokens on the board.

Electric Hobo
Oct 22, 2008


Grimey Drawer
That all makes sense. I'll make a token and print a couple to bring along when I play.

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011
Another call for aid, from your local Amazon (at present, anyway) BB2 player!

SO, I managed to tie against Norse (2-2. Would've won, but sadly I caused a touchback in the last kick at the end of the game, then he JUST got a tiemaker TD) and won against one of the three ork teams in our league.

However, now I'm up against dwarves... I think this is likely to be roughly as challenging as chaos dwarves, although this player takes more/less-sound risks than the chaos dwarf player, so I'm hoping I can force a tie. Are there any particular tactics that any of you recommend?

I think I'm gonna have to just gum up the works as much as possible on his drive and hope I can hold out for eight turns. Then leg it past his guys (with my EIGHT movement thrower - two double-five level ups is hilarious hahah) on my drive and hold out for a quarter before getting a TD, then just pray there isn't an equaliser. How to actually ACHIEVE that however, is the problem! haha

berzerkmonkey
Jul 23, 2003

Virtual Russian posted:

I don't disagree with any of this. I have used Stormtroopers in chimera before (but mostly in minigeddon) and gotten a good days work out of them, but they are nowhere near as good as they are in valks. You are 100% correct about the warlord, but on the upside an unmolested BTS is not the worst thing, I just have to make sure every turn with it counts.

Unless I've totally missed something I didn't think you could add company upgrades to support formations? If I'm wrong on that I'd 100% move a hydra to the battery.

No, you're correct - I was thinking an Arty Co, and not a support battery.

Jolo
Jun 4, 2007

ive been playing with magnuts tying to change the wold as we know it

New Underworlds set Harrowdeep is up for pre-order soon and is priced at $95.

I've been trying to decide on a set to start off with and then this one was announced which seems like a good spot to start but I don't know why the new one is $20 more than the Direchasm when it looks to contain basically the same stuff. Am I overlooking something here that is adding $20?

The price increase is making me lean towards picking up an older set for less and waiting for Harrowdeep to be discounted by retailers. I just wish the starter set, Dreadfane, and Harrowdeep didn't all come with Stormcast Eternal warbands.

Squibsy
Dec 3, 2005

Not suited, just booted.
College Slice
Get Direchasm. The Dread Pageant is the coolest warband released to date (models wise - I haven't had a chance to play with them yet due to the ~plague~)

I also sold Myari's Purifiers on eBay for almost as much as I paid for the box overall :confused:

berzerkmonkey
Jul 23, 2003

Jolo posted:

New Underworlds set Harrowdeep is up for pre-order soon and is priced at $95.

I've been trying to decide on a set to start off with and then this one was announced which seems like a good spot to start but I don't know why the new one is $20 more than the Direchasm when it looks to contain basically the same stuff. Am I overlooking something here that is adding $20?

The price increase is making me lean towards picking up an older set for less and waiting for Harrowdeep to be discounted by retailers. I just wish the starter set, Dreadfane, and Harrowdeep didn't all come with Stormcast Eternal warbands.

SCE are the Space Marines of AOS, so they are going to be part of almost every starter that comes out. It blows, but it is what it is. The SCE are pretty boring to me and are even more samey than SMs, IMO. I kind of like the kruleboyz (at least more than the Dominion ones, which I dislike for the most part) but I'm tired of playing "catch the meta" in WHU, and the fact that I had almost two seasons of warbands that didn't get played has soured me on the game. I'm not a fan of rotating out stuff I spent a decent amount of money on - it's planned obsolescence at its worst.

The price increase is likely due to a number of factors, including the fact that everything is more expensive now due to covid and the usual GW price increase to appease shareholders. I also think they are testing the limits on how high they can price starters and have people still buy - so far, we haven't hit that ceiling yet, even though they're pushing $200 on some things now.

Just remember that if you buy an older set, it's going to rotate out sooner than the new season (assuming it hasn't already) and the Warbands very likely won't be as competitive. Also, the potential good news about this season is that decks are supposed to be more balanced and competitive out of the box - past seasons really required you to buy multiple warbands just to get a decent deck. Hopefully it won't be as pressing this season (though GW isn't giving up the opportunity to make more money, so I'm sure the need will still be there.)

MRLOLAST
May 9, 2013
Just watched the Auronatica game on TT titans. Reminds me of X-wing with hidden tokens. Did GW just steal The X-wing concept? Hidden tokens and one shot missiles and all.

Dr. Gargunza
May 19, 2011

He damned me for a eunuch,
and my mother for a whore.



Fun Shoe

MRLOLAST posted:

Just watched the Auronatica game on TT titans. Reminds me of X-wing with hidden tokens. Did GW just steal The X-wing concept? Hidden tokens and one shot missiles and all.

They wouldn't be the first. Remember WizKids' seminal classic games Star Trek Attack Wing and D&D Attack Wing? ... no? well they did sort of tank and the whole "aerial vector and momentum" thing did not map well onto Star Trek ships but

Hell, X-wing wasn't even the first to use the flight template concept. I think that was Wings of Glory from Sinclair, but then I haven't had enough coffee yet to do a proper google on it.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011



Dr. Gargunza posted:

They wouldn't be the first. Remember WizKids' seminal classic games Star Trek Attack Wing and D&D Attack Wing? ... no? well they did sort of tank and the whole "aerial vector and momentum" thing did not map well onto Star Trek ships but

Hell, X-wing wasn't even the first to use the flight template concept. I think that was Wings of Glory from Sinclair, but then I haven't had enough coffee yet to do a proper google on it.

Star Trek Attack Wing wasn't bad, just... the ship movements felt more like what you would get from smaller fighter ships (like X-Wing!) and not the larger ships that they have in Star Trek.

berzerkmonkey
Jul 23, 2003

MRLOLAST posted:

Just watched the Auronatica game on TT titans. Reminds me of X-wing with hidden tokens. Did GW just steal The X-wing concept? Hidden tokens and one shot missiles and all.

Aeronautica was originally released in 2007, and the current version is similar in many respects to the first version, so no, GW didn't steal the concept, though they may have borrowed a few things for the AI 2019 update. Thank god they didn't borrow the marketing strategy from X-Wing.

Floppychop
Mar 30, 2012

What marketing strategy? Both games had a practically non-existent marketing presence.

Or ae you talking about having a game be driven entirely on decades old nostalgia and pretty ship models? Because thats both of them.

lilljonas
May 6, 2007

We got crabs? We got crabs!
There were similar ww1 flight games (and ship games) before any of the games mentioned above, which they borrowed from. Nothing unusual in game design.

Canvas Eagle is still more advanced and a better game as far as game design goes imho.

Der Waffle Mous
Nov 27, 2009

In the grim future, there is only commerce.
Attack Wing's problem was, like, x-wings churn problem x10.

There were like a dozen equipment cards called "photon torpedo" released through the run and I don't think any of them did the same thing.

Harkano
Jun 5, 2005

Dr. Gargunza posted:

They wouldn't be the first. Remember WizKids' seminal classic games Star Trek Attack Wing and D&D Attack Wing? ... no? well they did sort of tank and the whole "aerial vector and momentum" thing did not map well onto Star Trek ships but

Hell, X-wing wasn't even the first to use the flight template concept. I think that was Wings of Glory from Sinclair, but then I haven't had enough coffee yet to do a proper google on it.

I believe Wizkids actually licenced the engine from FFG for that though - same size templates and all. It's called the 'Flightpath System'.

berzerkmonkey
Jul 23, 2003

Floppychop posted:

What marketing strategy? Both games had a practically non-existent marketing presence.

Or ae you talking about having a game be driven entirely on decades old nostalgia and pretty ship models? Because thats both of them.

More the way X-Wing was sold - individual models, special cards, $100+ models, etc. I mean, people would literally buy a ship, take the card out, and toss the model in the trash.

IMO AI is pricey for what you get, but at least I don't have to buy a $15 just to get a specific card. Honestly, it probably works out to spending the same amount of money anyway, and I get the added "bonus" of having to assemble and paint the ships... I'm just not a fan of the collectable aspect of these types of games - it's part of why I've fallen out of love with WHU.

Floppychop
Mar 30, 2012

berzerkmonkey posted:

More the way X-Wing was sold - individual models, special cards, $100+ models, etc. I mean, people would literally buy a ship, take the card out, and toss the model in the trash.

IMO AI is pricey for what you get, but at least I don't have to buy a $15 just to get a specific card. Honestly, it probably works out to spending the same amount of money anyway, and I get the added "bonus" of having to assemble and paint the ships... I'm just not a fan of the collectable aspect of these types of games - it's part of why I've fallen out of love with WHU.

X-wing hasn't been that way for years, and ships are ~$20.

It's pretty rough to compare a game that you can have a fully functional, competitive list for under $100 to GW's pricing standards.

Moola
Aug 16, 2006

berzerkmonkey posted:

I mean, people would literally buy a ship, take the card out, and toss the model in the trash.

we call these people idiots

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



They still make x-wing?

Moola
Aug 16, 2006

moths posted:

They still make x-wing?

in a galaxy far, far away

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long-ass nips Diane
Dec 13, 2010

Breathe.

moths posted:

They still make x-wing?

Allegedly

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