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Mors Rattus posted:Honestly, hard to say, especially without all the other income streams involved being known. (Like, this is not covering any donations or sponsorships or other payments CR is getting, and while we can look at OP’s Kickstarter income, we don’t have their sales numbers.) That is definitely the part of why I think the industry is so interesting. Looking at Onyx Paths kickstarters is something but even that has some element of physical production costs that are not really a thing for Critical Role. As one of the biggest non D&D companies with a pretty wide product line, they have to be one of the biggest players in the space but how big is that really? Would John Harper have been better off financially being a twitch streamer rather than creating the influential Blades in the Dark? What about people who do even less notable new games? For all the talk about how trad games creators should be paid more for their labor (and they should) I wonder how possible that is.
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Oct 6, 2021 18:41
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Would John Harper have been better off financially being a twitch streamer rather than creating the influential Blades in the Dark? What about people who do even less notable new games? No, because John Harper doesn't have the necessary personality traits or skills to be a successful full-time Twitch streamer. No knock on John, he seems like a nice guy, but he's been on Twitch quite a bit in interviews and streamed games, so you can tell what his "I'm on camera" persona is like and it's not anywhere near energetic enough to clinch the "top 1% of twitch" streaming position. If he did have those traits and skills, sure, he'd almost certainly be better off financially as an internet celebrity.
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Oct 6, 2021 18:59
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Yeah, these folks are actors, of course they're going to sound great and look great on camera. That poo poo is a skill, just like game design, and if you don't have it, you're just not going to be as successful streaming as the people who do.
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Oct 6, 2021 19:18
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Kestral posted:No, because John Harper doesn't have the necessary personality traits or skills to be a successful full-time Twitch streamer. No knock on John, he seems like a nice guy, but he's been on Twitch quite a bit in interviews and streamed games, so you can tell what his "I'm on camera" persona is like and it's not anywhere near energetic enough to clinch the "top 1% of twitch" streaming position. If he did have those traits and skills, sure, he'd almost certainly be better off financially as an internet celebrity. Even then, it's a gamble. Twitch is full of streamers who are energetic and have personality (good personality, even) and are simply never going to break it big in any sort of way, and maybe not even break it medium. https://twitter.com/Delethiel/status/1445786490995359744 This isn't meant as some dig at Critical Role in particular but a huge part of this sort of thing just comes down to being the one to catch lightning in a bottle.
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Oct 6, 2021 19:19
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Kai Tave posted:This isn't meant as some dig at Critical Role in particular but a huge part of this sort of thing just comes down to being the one to catch lightning in a bottle. 100% accurate. The people who make it big on twitch have a magic combination of "right person" and "right place and time." If you have the "right person" part you can try to brute-force the rest, which is what most streamers have to do, but it's, uh, obviously not reliable.
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Oct 6, 2021 20:13
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Kestral posted:100% accurate. The people who make it big on twitch have a magic combination of "right person" and "right place and time." If you have the "right person" part you can try to brute-force the rest, which is what most streamers have to do, but it's, uh, obviously not reliable. It's so much just luck based on the algorithm loving you. Unless like the people at Critical Role, you have a fanbase of people from outside twitch or youtube and funneling them into that eco system. Like Ninja just got turbo popular because he was a decently well known Halo/Pubg player who started playing the Fortnite BR early enough, when people were looking for a streamer playing it and the twitch algo pushed people into his stream. He was then able to leverage that popularity to get a stream with Drake, and then yeah. It's so much about just hoping the Algorithm helps you. And now Twitch wants your fans to help decide who the algo pushes via giving money to twitch. It's real loving dumb.
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Oct 6, 2021 20:26
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Kai Tave posted:This isn't meant as some dig at Critical Role in particular but a huge part of this sort of thing just comes down to being the one to catch lightning in a bottle. I think that the pastebin has been taken down now but I'd be interested to see if anyone has done the Gini Coefficient. Most creative platforms end up having worse economic inequality than two or three dictatorships combined. Tsilkani posted:Or it could be that they're getting to hang out with people they consider friends and tell a fun story together, even if they have to occasionally dip into lovely rules. Plenty of people out there say they're having fun in games of D&D, and they're not all getting paid like this. Yes, they're having fun in spite of the rules rather than because of the rules, but jumping immediately to 'they're only enjoying this because they get paid' is real weird. Well, I don't think you can say that hanging out with your friends, and hanging out with your friends and getting $9m for doing it, wouldn't be intrinsically different. Also as Kestral said, there's a survivorship bias involved since people appearing energetic and engaged are always more popular. And seriously gently caress that "if he had those traits and skills he'd be better off streaming.." thing that leaves young people in education thinking that developing those traits and skills is all that matters.
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Oct 6, 2021 21:04
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hyphz posted:And seriously gently caress that "if he had those traits and skills he'd be better off streaming.." thing that leaves young people in education thinking that developing those traits and skills is all that matters.
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Oct 6, 2021 21:11
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dwarf74 posted:When you want to be in a business where people watch what you're doing on a streaming service, those traits and skills are extremely important. Yeah, in context it was "Successful and talented RPG designer made the right call designing RPGs that are now licensed for a TV deal, rather than becoming a twitch streamer playing other people's RPGs because he probably didn't have the chops to be a twitch star." It's analogous to "I think it's good that surgeon stuck with medical school, even if the top football player makes more money, I don't think they could make it in the NFL." In no way is that advocating kids stop studying and exclusively aim for a football career.
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Oct 6, 2021 21:55
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Coolness Averted posted:In no way is that advocating kids stop studying and exclusively aim for a football career. Exactly force your kid to be left handed, and then teach him how to pitch.
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Oct 6, 2021 22:21
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edit never mind
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Oct 6, 2021 22:24
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Looks like Critical role employs 32 different people so the money is not just going to a handful of people.
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Oct 7, 2021 00:08
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MuscaDomestica posted:Looks like Critical role employs 32 different people so the money is not just going to a handful of people. Hey, you don't know how big my hand is!
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Oct 7, 2021 00:16
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A shitload of big streamers were astroturfed by their parents hiring marketing companies, always keep in mind.
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Oct 7, 2021 09:48
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Ghost Leviathan posted:A shitload of big streamers were astroturfed by their parents hiring marketing companies, always keep in mind. Citation needed? Not that I think it's impossible or untrue, but it also sounds like the type of thing people say without attribution because its so plausibly nefarious.
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Oct 7, 2021 10:45
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Magnetic North posted:Citation needed? Not that I think it's impossible or untrue, but it also sounds like the type of thing people say without attribution because its so plausibly nefarious. PewDiePie is the big example.
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Oct 7, 2021 11:31
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Hey, you don't know how big my hand is!
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Oct 7, 2021 13:05
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Ghost Leviathan posted:A shitload of big streamers were astroturfed by their parents hiring marketing companies, always keep in mind. Most of the internet is fake and botted, isn't it?
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Oct 7, 2021 14:03
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Ghost Leviathan posted:A shitload of big streamers were astroturfed by their parents hiring marketing companies, always keep in mind. It's always a truism that those who are rich at a thing started off wealthy. If you don't value your liver, you could play a lethal drinking game with taking a shot every time one of those clickbait articles says 'How DID this person manage to buy a mansion on a 40 hour a week job!?' the answer is 'they come from a lot of wealth already and the job was working for their family.' It's very 'say the line, Bart.'
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Oct 7, 2021 14:13
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I love those articles about how families who make $250-500,000 a year are "barely scraping by," complete with budgets. And it always includes like $40,000 for childcare, $20,000 more for private school, another $20,000 in donations to their alma mater so their kids get in, maximum contributions to 401ks and IRAs, the costs of buying a $1-3 million dollar home, a few thousand for vacations...and they still haven't paid off their grad school loans. VVV I've seen a lot of those articles, but their parents bought the home. The secret to retiring before 40? A free house. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Oct 7, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 14:39
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This inspiring young person scrimped and saved to buy their own home, which they then rented out until their tenants had purchased them one or more additional homes. Now they're moving in for the first time!
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Oct 7, 2021 14:41
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Halloween Jack posted:I love those articles about how families who make $250-500,000 a year are "barely scraping by," complete with budgets. And it always includes like $40,000 for childcare, $20,000 more for private school, another $20,000 in donations to their alma mater so their kids get in, maximum contributions to 401ks and IRAs, the costs of buying a $1-3 million dollar home, a few thousand for vacations...and they still haven't paid off their grad school loans. The best ones have a vacation line item for weekend getaways and another one for full scale vacations.
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Oct 7, 2021 15:55
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glad to see cr raking in bucks. enjoy the product and the cast seem like solid sorts. cheers
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Oct 7, 2021 18:14
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The Canadian and/or US Postal Service has eaten the physical Diana Jones award: https://www.polygon.com/22714697/diana-jones-award-history-lost-in-mail
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Oct 8, 2021 16:59
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I'll keep an eye out for it when it inevitably shows up again.
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Oct 8, 2021 17:06
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Hey, you don't know how big my hand is! It's big(by's)
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Oct 9, 2021 08:24
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Nuns with Guns posted:The Canadian and/or US Postal Service has eaten the physical Diana Jones award: How the hell did they think it was a good idea not to ship it with tracking at the very least?
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Oct 10, 2021 08:00
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Midjack posted:How the hell did they think it was a good idea not to ship it with tracking at the very least? I don’t even know if it’s possible to ship a USPS package without tracking.
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Oct 10, 2021 09:20
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I've never shipped USPS without getting a tracking number but I think you can get insurance? Or special care tracking or something? Surely there's a "seriously don't lose this one" option for extra $$$, right?
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Oct 10, 2021 09:27
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Nuns with Guns posted:The Canadian and/or US Postal Service has eaten the physical Diana Jones award: Looking at the ugly thing, I don't think it's actually a loss, but rather a win for all future winners not to have to receive this blight upon our eyes?
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Oct 10, 2021 10:09
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zachol posted:I've never shipped USPS without getting a tracking number but I think you can get insurance? Or special care tracking or something? Surely there's a "seriously don't lose this one" option for extra $$$, right?
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Oct 10, 2021 14:21
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*laughs in Shadowrun fan* Welcome to CGL!
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Oct 10, 2021 20:08
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Midjack posted:How the hell did they think it was a good idea not to ship it with tracking at the very least? Reading the article, it was shipped from Canada to the US. International Mail, in attempts to save the mailer money, have non-trackable options available. For the USPS, if your package is 4 pounds or under, it can be send First Class International, which can only be "officially" tracked before it's passed off to the destination country. Afterwards, it depends on country. I've heard some customers say they can still track it, other can't. I'm guessing Canada Mail has something similiar.
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Oct 10, 2021 20:11
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admanb posted:I don’t even know if it’s possible to ship a USPS package without tracking. I know for sure if you ship something internationally via USPS, you don't get tracking (because they hand it off to their counterpart in the destination country midway through).
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Oct 10, 2021 20:11
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Leraika posted:I know for sure if you ship something internationally via USPS, you don't get tracking (because they hand it off to their counterpart in the destination country midway through). Going US to Canada you do get tracking. If I order something using USPS I can just put the USPS tracking number in Canada Post’s website and I will get the results on both sides of the border. Not sure if you can do a similar thing Canada to US though.
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Oct 10, 2021 20:15
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Midjack posted:How the hell did they think it was a good idea not to ship it with tracking at the very least? Not wanting to pay extra for the "please be careful and track this" thing and assuming nothing would go wrong, except this time it did, I guess? Mr.Misfit posted:Looking at the ugly thing, I don't think it's actually a loss, but rather a win for all future winners not to have to receive this blight upon our eyes? Honestly, it's a crusty meme older than pretty much anyone who would receive the award at this point. The Indiana Jones RPG was notoriously bad when it came out, but that was decades ago now and it might not even crack the top 5 of notoriously bad RPGs nowadays. I don't totally agree with comparing the Diana Jones award to the Academy Awards, but they certainly share an insular selection committee setups and lots of weak progressive gesticulating.
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Oct 10, 2021 20:23
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Halloween Jack posted:I love those articles about how families who make $250-500,000 a year are "barely scraping by," complete with budgets. And it always includes like $40,000 for childcare, $20,000 more for private school, another $20,000 in donations to their alma mater so their kids get in, maximum contributions to 401ks and IRAs, the costs of buying a $1-3 million dollar home, a few thousand for vacations...and they still haven't paid off their grad school loans. If you have that kind of money, not paying of the loans is good financial sense. The interest on them is probably half what you make keeping that money in an index fund instead.
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Oct 10, 2021 20:53
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Liquid Communism posted:If you have that kind of money, not paying of the loans is good financial sense. Interest on a mortgage? You're not making that money, it's getting paid to the lender or investor. You can use your mortgage interest payments as a tax deduction though, which is why rich people will get interest only-loans on multi-million dollar homes to help round out their end-of year tax filings.
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Oct 10, 2021 21:04
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Nuns with Guns posted:Interest on a mortgage? You're not making that money, it's getting paid to the lender or investor. You can use your mortgage interest payments as a tax deduction though, which is why rich people will get interest only-loans on multi-million dollar homes to help round out their end-of year tax filings. That's what he means, the money you save on interest by paying off the mortgage is less than the money you -earn- by putting money in an index fund because it has a better rate. The fact that the two are opposite directions doesn't change that you make a profit. I'm in the same position, my last student loan has a lower interest rate than I'm earning elsewhere, so I'm just doing minimum payments until such time as that changes.
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Oct 10, 2021 21:17
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Nuns with Guns posted:Honestly, it's a crusty meme older than pretty much anyone who would receive the award at this point. The Indiana Jones RPG was notoriously bad when it came out, but that was decades ago now and it might not even crack the top 5 of notoriously bad RPGs nowadays. I don't totally agree with comparing the Diana Jones award to the Academy Awards, but they certainly share an insular selection committee setups and lots of weak progressive gesticulating. As an additional data point, I just assumed it was related to British fantasy author Diana Wynne Jones for the longest time.
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Oct 10, 2021 21:58
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