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HD DAD posted:I still can’t believe vocal fan support willed an entire Star Trek series into existence. And I know I shouldn’t get my hopes up, but…dammit I’m kinda really exited to have more Pike, Number One, and of course… Even if it's bad or mediocre sometimes, being an episodic show means those bad or mediocre episodes won't have to hold up entire universe-threatening seasonal plot arcs, which is a basic structural advantage Discovery and Picard don't have by design. At worst, SNW might be late TOS or early TNG or Voyager again, so after a down week people might be saying "maybe next week will be better" instead of "ugh, how are they going to fix this" It'll probably be better than those other two shows but not as good as Lower Decks just because being a live-action series in this production era means it could easily end up sharing a lot of Disco's weird aesthetic choices and rushed pacing. But even then it's got Pike/Spock/Number One to fall back on and that's gonna go a long way.
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Oct 11, 2021 21:52
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People still poo poo on Voyager and enterprise so i don’t know where the idea it will change comes from The TNG movies as well
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Oct 11, 2021 21:53
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CharlestheHammer posted:People still poo poo on Voyager and enterprise so i don’t know where the idea it will change comes from Kirk's supposed to die on the bridge not under it!!!!!
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Oct 11, 2021 21:55
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Discovery is a third type of show. You have serials, procedurals, and Discovery is a non-sequitur.
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Oct 11, 2021 22:00
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omg lets also then stop pretending we are stupid to have something to be mad about It's obviously all Trek When people say "not trek" they are saying "missing anything that would make it feel like the thing I like about trek" or "may as well not be trek" or "so bad it actively shits on the good parts of trek" They are not literally saying it's not trek because that would be obviously very stupid* *some very few people are in fact very stupid and may be saying this
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Oct 11, 2021 22:04
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CharlestheHammer posted:People still poo poo on Voyager and enterprise so i don’t know where the idea it will change comes from We've also got way more defenders for all that stuff now than seemed to exist when they were airing. I guess streaming helped a lot of old shows a ton, even Enterprise, and Voyager has always been weirdly popular outside this thread for some reason. Orville also feels like another indicator of something people are willing to put up with when it's bad to get to the better stuff down the line and I don't know if that would've been the case 20 years ago. Or Fox would've cancelled it after three episodes 20 years ago so we never would've known one way or the other. Anyway, an episodic show has a better chance at this than a serialized one given less weighty expectations.
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Oct 11, 2021 22:16
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:I figure Prodigy might be pretty good but also Not For Me, and that's fine imo. I'll give it a watch, but just having a high quality kids-focused Trek series is cool enough on its own. This is my take. It looks good enough but not something I’m remotely interested in based on everything I’ve seen to date. Given that I’m not expecting what is intended to be a kids show to be targeted at my demographic I’m really 100% fine with it. If they do one of those “this is for the kids and here’s a bunch of fanservice for the adults who grew up with Trek” things, that would be super awesome for anyone who’s watching with their kids.
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Oct 11, 2021 22:16
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The Bloop posted:omg lets also then stop pretending we are stupid to have something to be mad about It just always comes down to much the same thing to how comics fans think their favorite line was only really great for one specific run when they were 14 and since then the genre has to one extent or another fallen from grace. It's not like a new Star Trek show even just gets compared to TNG or DS9 or whatever else they love best, it's that it gets compared to a platonic ideal of a certain subset of a certain show, which itself might have been a departure from what came before. I mean, for all Discovery's flaws it seems to get good reception from the people I personally know who: 1. Got into Trek when it was just the adventures of the original crew 2. Stayed big into Trek in the TNG/DS9/Voyager era 3. are not extremely online today. I figure if it's Trek to them I'm in no place to say it's not. Even the parts I was bored by. God were there some dismal stretches in the old shows too, though I will admit serial storytelling can prolong those compared to episodic.
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Oct 11, 2021 22:18
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I didn't mind Nemisis. I liked it more than Insurrection at least.
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Oct 11, 2021 22:19
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Lower Decks is ideal Trek imo. It's the only show I trust to revisit TOS concepts like a gangster planet or whatever and produce a good episode without having tonal whiplash.
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Oct 11, 2021 22:23
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TomR posted:Lower Decks is ideal Trek imo. It's the only show I trust to revisit TOS concepts like a gangster planet or whatever and produce a good episode without having tonal whiplash. Only a comedy cartoon could successfully straddle TOS and TNG era trek and somehow not feel inconsistent or forced.
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Oct 11, 2021 22:28
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Zurtilik posted:I didn't mind Nemisis. I liked it more than Insurrection at least. Meanwhile I think Insurrection is the only TNG movie I even sort of like and that's because it reaches the lofty heights of a really bad season 7 2 parter. TomR posted:Lower Decks is ideal Trek imo. It's the only show I trust to revisit TOS concepts like a gangster planet or whatever and produce a good episode without having tonal whiplash. I mean I think you can still get as goofy as TOS did in live action, I loved the gag in Beyond when it's revealed Kirk is talking to the little dog guys who are maybe a foot high and they all attack him. That's like pure TOS fun there. Though yes Lower Decks does that amazingly. Honestly Disco is possibly redeemable if they you know didn't threaten to blow up the universe every season and let characters who aren't named Michael Burnham breathe.
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Oct 11, 2021 22:30
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Delsaber posted:We've also got way more defenders for all that stuff now than seemed to exist when they were airing. I guess streaming helped a lot of old shows a ton, even Enterprise, and Voyager has always been weirdly popular outside this thread for some reason. I mean the internet is a much bigger place then it was when basically most of those shows were running. No matter how bad something is it’s probably still someone’s favorite
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Oct 11, 2021 22:37
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Eimi posted:Honestly Disco is possibly redeemable if they you know didn't threaten to blow up the universe every season and let characters who aren't named Michael Burnham breathe. As many people have mentioned, it has many great characters and actors, it's production values are generally top notch, and occasionally has some reasonably interesting ideas. It's entirely redeemable, it just needs to slow the gently caress down, and as you say, not threaten to blow up the universe every season. I mean as far as characters go Stamets, Tilly, Reno, and Saru are all up there with the most fun and interesting characters out of Star treck main crews, and Burnham's fine when she hasn't had the seventh billion major life/universe changing revelation happen to her in an episode.
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Oct 11, 2021 23:22
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The Bloop posted:omg lets also then stop pretending we are stupid to have something to be mad about (Also most of the arguments about how bad modern live action Trek is could be much easier to have if you just talk about them as bad television, which they are. Most issues I have with them aren't really Trek specific.) I truly hope Strange New Worlds is a "third time's the charm for live action" situation, even though LDS already was the third-time-a-charm modern Trek success. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Oct 11, 2021 |
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Oct 11, 2021 23:30
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dr_rat posted:I mean as far as characters go Stamets, Tilly, Reno, and Saru are all up there with the most fun and interesting characters out of Star treck main crews, and Burnham's fine when she hasn't had the seventh billion major life/universe changing revelation happen to her in an episode. I thought Michael was legit good when she was just chilling and joking around with Book and his cat. A better version of this show would've kept her on the independent courier track for a while to explore that dynamic a little more, or at least not rushed her back in with the Starfleet characters so quickly, but here we are. All those other characters are solid, as are the new folks they introduced last season. They left the worst guy back in the 23rd century and wrote out Georgiou, so really it was a net positive season for characters, just everything else continues to be a scattered mess.
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Oct 11, 2021 23:38
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Delsaber posted:I thought Michael was legit good when she was just chilling and joking around with Book and his cat. Same. I mean one of the reasons that O'Brien must suffer episodes didn't make his character into a dour mess to watch is because there were plenty of scenes of him just chilling out having fun, as well between them. I think along with Bashiar we got shown him just chilling out off hours the most. In short discovery really could use a quarks.
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Oct 11, 2021 23:54
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Delsaber posted:I thought Michael was legit good when she was just chilling and joking around with Book and his cat. Michael Burnham: Transporter was a fun show that I would definitely watch. A lot of parts of Discovery and Picard are fun shows that I would watch. It's an honest shame that they didn't make those shows instead of the shows they made.
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Oct 12, 2021 00:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vTR4m5oGNc&t=278s I like the warp effect
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Oct 12, 2021 00:24
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Arglebargle III posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vTR4m5oGNc&t=278s Beyond is cool and good.
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Oct 12, 2021 00:25
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That's the betrayal bit of S3 (at least, the personal story one). Michael's arc is that she enjoys and is more at peace with herself outside of Starfleet where she can chart her own course and nobody says to her "this is mutiny" or "why did you murder that guy?". That makes total sense and the arc feels natural and right. Then at the 11th hour they volte-face and without any explanation at all Michael decides that Starfleet is the place for her after all because she needs to murder someone during a peace negotiation. Then after she murders the person Starfleet are all 'this was a good thing you did' and she gets promoted to Captain.
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Oct 12, 2021 00:25
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+1 for Burnham Courier show, her whole defying authority on instinct thing would work great in that arena. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMP5OKXrwCQ I remember people shrieking about this scene but I like that they aren't doing anything. Or maybe there is but I forgot the context. Burnham awkward to the side, excited to be distracted by the power disruption. Even the ash romance stuff wasn't all weird and hosed up and i-wish-this-wasn't-any-of-what-its-being yet.
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Oct 12, 2021 00:31
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I wonder if Rosa Salazar would guest star in SNW
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Oct 12, 2021 00:38
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Yeah, that hits the nail on the head with Disco - I only watched the one season and change before dropping off but it always felt… anxious, too focussed on upsetting the status quo to give itself the space to establish a status quo A few low stakes Quarks type episodes would definitely do wonders for Disco
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Oct 12, 2021 00:39
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Zurtilik posted:I didn't mind Nemisis. I liked it more than Insurrection at least. I'm the inverse. Nemesis is a miserable spiral into depression, Insurrection is at least contagiously gleeful as it flings itself into abject stupidity. Arglebargle III posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vTR4m5oGNc&t=278s I wish Beyond's warp effect was standardized across all of Trek. It's been the only one so far to convey the proper sense of the term "Warp Drive". nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Oct 12, 2021 |
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Oct 12, 2021 00:42
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The end of S3 they were talking abut the Disco being space truckers heading back to disconnected worlds, bringing dilithium and the renewed Federation. That sounded like a great idea so I'm not surprised they ditched it in favor of Universe Ending Threat #...4?
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Oct 12, 2021 00:48
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Khanstant posted:+1 for Burnham Courier show, her whole defying authority on instinct thing would work great in that arena. Wasn't this the time loop episode? This scene was just wildly out of place in that script.
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Oct 12, 2021 00:53
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My biggest problem with Nemesis is that it just feels cheap. At least Insurrection made a whole fake village for the cast to vacation in. Plus there’s something to be said about painfully bad jokes among the cast vs the endless misery inflicted on half of them in Nemesis. I would argue that Insurrection is the Final Frontier of the TNG films in that the story is poo poo but some of the character moments are great. I’ve always been fond of the scene with Picard and Geordi at sunrise. Insurrection also gave us an absolute all-timer of a commentary track.
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Oct 12, 2021 00:55
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Aces High posted:I wonder if Rosa Salazar would guest star in SNW Each season she captains a new ship that gets destroyed by an ecological menace that the Enterprise has to help fix
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Oct 12, 2021 01:18
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Arglebargle III posted:Wasn't this the time loop episode? This scene was just wildly out of place in that script. haha I think you might be right, I knew there had to be some weird context nine-gear crow posted:I'm the inverse. Nemesis is a miserable spiral into depression, Insurrection is at least contagiously gleeful as it flings itself into abject stupidity. Never saw this but that space station with the city-rings is sick. Also parking the Enterprise was a cool scale moment.
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Oct 12, 2021 01:18
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Khanstant posted:haha I think you might be right, I knew there had to be some weird context I'd seen people bitch online about how the Kelvin Enterprise was an enormous, bloated ship, but judging by the scale of the docking arm, it looks to be almost exactly the same size as the original.
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Oct 12, 2021 01:31
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Grand Fromage posted:The end of S3 they were talking abut the Disco being space truckers heading back to disconnected worlds, bringing dilithium and the renewed Federation. That sounded like a great idea so I'm not surprised they ditched it in favor of Universe Ending Threat #...4?
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Oct 12, 2021 01:36
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A.o.D. posted:I'd seen people bitch online about how the Kelvin Enterprise was an enormous, bloated ship, but judging by the scale of the docking arm, it looks to be almost exactly the same size as the original.  It's possible they were just poo poo at scale, as usual
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Oct 12, 2021 01:37
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My understanding of the scale argument for the Konnie is that the plan was for it to be roughly the same size as the prime Connie, if you look at it's windows it more or less lines up, otherwise that viewscreen/window on the bridge is insanely huge. However JJ wanted it to look bigger for certain dramatic shots, like when it rises from the rings of Saturn, so bigger it became. I honestly like the working backwards explanation for it, given they were working with tech 2 centuries ahead of time, they couldn't figure out how to miniaturize it, so gently caress it huge ship. This leads to possibly my most controversial ship design opinion. The Konnie is a way better Federation battlecruiser than the Sovereign.
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Oct 12, 2021 01:42
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The Bloop posted:
I mean, I can place a Scanning Electron Microscope image of a bacterio phage over that and it'd dwarf those ships, but I'm talking about the scale shown in Star Trek Beyond. It looks appropriate to the TOS Enterprise.
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Oct 12, 2021 01:57
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I believe that image accurately reflects how the model was scaled against all the other elements and shuttles and people and interiors you could see in the windows and all so They did have to mess with scale a little in beyond with Yorktown and the ships, though. The Franklin is visibly tiny, with the saucer one deck thick and you can see the bridge crew in the bridge, and is miniscule compared to the Enterprise:  but it's so much smaller than the JJ Enterprise that it would've looked absurdly small in the Enterprise sized docking passage so when it breaks into Yorktown it's suddenly being rendered twice or three times bigger.  So maybe they split the difference and shrank the Enterprise a bit against Yorktown as well. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Oct 12, 2021 |
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Oct 12, 2021 02:59
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Zurtilik posted:Just watched the ENT episode where T'Pol falls boobs first onto Archer's face. Nice to see Trek taking tips from anime. =) You missed someone's very obvious shibari rope fetish with that episode. Because there's zero reason to restrain T'Pol and Archer like that.
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Oct 12, 2021 03:16
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Khanstant posted:haha I think you might be right, I knew there had to be some weird context The whole movie was worth it just for that sequence. Looks very different from anything we've seen in Trek before, but feels so much like something the Federation would build. A.o.D. posted:I'd seen people bitch online about how the Kelvin Enterprise was an enormous, bloated ship, but judging by the scale of the docking arm, it looks to be almost exactly the same size as the original. It gets fudged a lot. From that same sequence check out the scale of the people in the windows around the saucer rim: 
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Oct 12, 2021 03:24
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And not to mention the wonderfully safe piece of design that is the central atrium in the saucer @ 1 minute 30.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Oct 12, 2021 |
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Oct 12, 2021 03:31
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MikeJF posted:And not to mention the wonderfully safe piece of design that is the central atrium in the saucer @ 1 minute 30. The JJPrise being absurdly huge is also the only way the brewery engineering makes sense. I mean since they haven't discovered the turbolift dimension yet at that point.
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Oct 12, 2021 03:42
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