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Now that I'm looking at some new openings/higher level positions, I'm really surprised at the amount of C/C++. Is that legacy stuff? Are new products still being built in C/C++?
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Oct 9, 2021 03:53
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downout posted:Now that I'm looking at some new openings/higher level positions, I'm really surprised at the amount of C/C++. Is that legacy stuff? Are new products still being built in C/C++? Yes, new products are still being built in C and C++. They have a very large footprint in the language landscape for software projects.
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Oct 9, 2021 03:59
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leper khan posted:Yes, new products are still being built in C and C++. They have a very large footprint in the language landscape for software projects. Are there any spaces that have have a lot of details on open-source libraries, best practices, recommended spaces or anything like that to look at? I've been out of those languages for almost a decade, so I'd be interested in what's current.
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Oct 9, 2021 04:07
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There's a Slack and a Discord I know of: https://cppalliance.org/slack/ https://www.includecpp.org/ As for best practices, the core guidelines are often cited: https://github.com/isocpp/CppCoreGuidelines
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Oct 9, 2021 19:08
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Recruiter set me up for fit calls with actual remote teams this week and I wish we could have done that before but now I have the MTV teams waiting an extra week while I talk to these remote ones. Fingers crossed. Haven't heard back from the one that initially said he was open to remote so hoping these go well. Been over three months since I started working with the recruiter. I heard horror stories of Google's hiring process but I didn't expect to skip the interviews and still take nearly 4 months to return. Frankly I'd have just studied for L5 if I knew it would have taken this long. Might as well have done it. oliveoil fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Oct 11, 2021 |
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Oct 11, 2021 21:57
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I wonder how long it would take to grind leetcode up to an L9 interview? lol, I'm kidding. Obviously, you'd hire a team of farmers to grind that for you.
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Oct 12, 2021 01:20
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oliveoil youve supposedly already done the google interview process once, why does it seem so foreign to you?
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Oct 12, 2021 15:39
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Mniot posted:I wonder how long it would take to grind leetcode up to an L9 interview? Yeah, that's way too much to do alone. On the bright side, I just realized I actually have seven years of experience so I could probably swing a job somewhere as a strong senior if this Google thing doesn't work out. Really though I am still surprised how long it's taken to return to Google. My recruiter didn't go into details, but she told me I had a strong profile relative to other xooglers and it made me wonder how much longer those poor folks are taking to get on a team. I am actually applying to other places now because I expected this to take two weeks, not 3-4 months and I'm officially out of money and living on water and containers of mixed nuts that were supposedly "best by" November of last year. Achmed Jones posted:oliveoil youve supposedly already done the google interview process once, why does it seem so foreign to you? The whole process took me less than a month my first time through. I thought skipping a huge part of it on my return would make it *faster*.
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Oct 12, 2021 15:41
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It kinda sounds like part of the problem is how picky you are.
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Oct 12, 2021 15:45
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*sets up a dozen fit calls that need multiple rounds each* why is this happening to me????
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Oct 12, 2021 15:50
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I mean you're right but it would have been nice if things had magically conspired to work out perfectly.
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Oct 12, 2021 16:05
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I recently had a Google recruiter ping me. Normally, I just thank them for their interest and decline because I can't relocate anywhere. Since "fully remote" is a possibility these days, I decided to set up a call to talk to this one and get some more information. After about 20 minutes of talking, this is where we ended up: - She is going to hand me off to another recruiter, since she said my experience qualifies me for at least an L6 position (possibly L7) and she only handles up to L5. - She is going to send me some materials on the interview process, including a study syllabus of sorts and some estimated timelines. - She asked me if I'd like to start the interview process right away, but I told her that I'd like a few weeks to study and think about the interview material before a first interview. - She said that there was some sort of screening interview up front that was going to get skipped (basic coding of some sort?), and that one of the main interviews would focus on system design instead of the algorithm/data structure hazing. - She said that "fully remote" is a distinct possibility, but it would be up to my team to set the terms for it. - She was very interested in my embedded systems background. I guess there are way fewer systems/embedded people that apply. Are any of you doing embedded stuff at Google? The recruiter mentioned that the two big areas for that were in Search and YouTube, and she specifically mentioned NYC and Durham, NC as being the home offices for embedded teams.
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Oct 12, 2021 20:29
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No personal experience but I imagine that YouTube does video transcoding all day every day.
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Oct 12, 2021 21:12
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L6 and no algo quizzes? Where do I sign up
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Oct 13, 2021 00:01
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hendersa posted:- She is going to hand me off to another recruiter, since she said my experience qualifies me for at least an L6 position (possibly L7) and she only handles up to L5. I hate this with the big companies soooo much. Some recruiter seems cool/direct enough that I talk to them and say "sure set things up". But oh! They're a sourcing recruiter so now that I agreed to an interview they hand me off. The next recruiter asks me what I'm interested in and I say "I like doing some SRE stuff" so then I get handed off to an SRE recruiter. Then I make it through the first interview and I'm handed off to a recruiter-for-candidates-who-made-it-through-the-first-interview. Then I pass the interviews and I get a recruiter for telling me that I'm getting an offer and another recruiter for negotiating the offer. hendersa posted:- She was very interested in my embedded systems background. I guess there are way fewer systems/embedded people that apply. I work at Fitbit (now a Google brand). We have a bunch of embedded developers for our fitness devices and Google seems to not have a ton of them. Like, we also have ~500 back-end SWEs and Google feels like SWEs are a solved problem, but there's nowhere near as much directives documentation for embedded work. My group's offices are SF, Boston, Bucharest, and Warsaw. Hadlock posted:L6 and no algo quizzes? Where do I sign up It's just one less algo quiz. But the "domain knowledge" interview they replace it with (when I interviewed 2 years ago) provides a fun break from the algo crap. I did "troubleshooting" and really enjoyed it. I've interviewed people on "system design" and I like that also, though I imagine you could have a bad time on it with the right interviewer.
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Oct 13, 2021 00:20
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I just did an L5 interview with Google where I only did 1 pretty easy coding problem over the 5 interview sessions, the rest was all domain knowledge or behavioral. So it’s possible as long as you’re going for something that requires heavy/deep specific domain knowledge. goog plz hire me
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Oct 13, 2021 01:36
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Anyone else have FOMO for getting that FAANG experience on your resume? I've been at everything between startups and F100 multi-nationals, but getting to the age where ageism and bias and crap start creeping up, and wondering if I would regret not having a several year stint at one of the "big" companies.
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Oct 13, 2021 02:17
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hendersa posted:She said that "fully remote" is a distinct possibility, but it would be up to my team to set the terms for it That's the same thing I was told and then every fit call turned cold when I mentioned remote - even a fit call with a hiring manager in a product area whose policy was 100% approval for remote requests. You might have a different experience as an L6 though as some teams told me they only allow it for a small amount of senior people with specific skills. oliveoil fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Oct 13, 2021 |
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Oct 13, 2021 02:50
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luchadornado posted:Anyone else have FOMO for getting that FAANG experience on your resume? I've been at everything between startups and F100 multi-nationals, but getting to the age where ageism and bias and crap start creeping up, and wondering if I would regret not having a several year stint at one of the "big" companies. I did for a while but when I got a figgies (non-FAANG) job I realized I mostly just cared about the money because we do this for the money, obviously. I will likely pursue the highest paying job I can get without LeetCoding for any future roles because I really can't do that grind again, it was far too stressful, and wherever that takes me so be it.
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Oct 13, 2021 03:38
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luchadornado posted:Anyone else have FOMO for getting that FAANG experience on your resume? I've been at everything between startups and F100 multi-nationals, but getting to the age where ageism and bias and crap start creeping up, and wondering if I would regret not having a several year stint at one of the "big" companies. You'll regret it just like you'll regret not joining a specific startup that 10x'd and IPO'd in a year while glossing over that it was a dumpster fire, a lottery ticket and/or all the other problems. Once the novelty wears off, which it does really really quickly, you realize that they're workplaces like any other with pros and cons and what you want is an enjoyable job that pays well. If it's at one of the FAANG then great, if not also great. This also expands your options as instead of six* companies you have 50+ and you can narrow that down based on factors that are important to you. * the FAANG vary dramatically on basically everything, pay culture, WL balance, etc, both within the company as they're gigantic and in comparison.
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Oct 13, 2021 05:43
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I’ve started to get cold call LinkedIn messages from recruiters for things that actually match my skills/interests. I just had my first chance to say “give me a number to make sure we don’t waste everyone’s time”, it feels weird. I guess this is what getting older is like?
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Oct 13, 2021 05:58
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asur posted:You'll regret it just like you'll regret not joining a specific startup that 10x'd and IPO'd in a year while glossing over that it was a dumpster fire, a lottery ticket and/or all the other problems. All good advice, but holy poo poo I'm in this post and I don't like it.
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Oct 13, 2021 13:22
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hendersa posted:Are any of you doing embedded stuff at Google? The recruiter mentioned that the two big areas for that were in Search and YouTube, and she specifically mentioned NYC and Durham, NC as being the home offices for embedded teams. embedded is different JawnV6 fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Oct 15, 2021 |
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Oct 13, 2021 13:50
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fourwood posted:I’ve started to get cold call LinkedIn messages from recruiters for things that actually match my skills/interests. I just had my first chance to say “give me a number to make sure we don’t waste everyone’s time”, it feels weird. I guess this is what getting older is like? It's sad when the recruiter list the pay bands and the companies aren't even close to okay, not even talking figgieland FANNG numbers. Like 115K for architect, senior roles. I don't know who is taking these roles at that crappy pay, but I'd like to shake them and tell them they could do so much better. It is nice being older and looking for new jobs while still employed. I give them my number confidently, and it stops a lot of timewasting with lowballing, poo poo companies.
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Oct 13, 2021 21:54
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On a completely different note, I went to see Jesus Christ, Superstar the other day. It was a hell of a show, but one scene in particular stood out to me as kind of grimly funny. The song "Gethsemane" is basically Jesus arguing with God over whether he has to see his course through and actually die. Here's one of the verses:quote:I'm not as sure, as when we started I feel like this ought to resonate for anyone who's done Google perf 
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Oct 14, 2021 14:34
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hendersa posted:I recently had a Google recruiter ping me. Normally, I just thank them for their interest and decline because I can't relocate anywhere. Since "fully remote" is a possibility these days, I decided to set up a call to talk to this one and get some more information. After about 20 minutes of talking, this is where we ended up: I don't see any major changes here from what I was dealing with in the past so you want to make sure they're going to replace your interviews with domain knowledge. Otherwise, I anticipate 4 coding puzzle interviews with absurdly high standards and a web distributed system design problem for the system design. Based on previous feedback, at the level of L6, they're expecting that you are told the algorithm lottery problem and pretty much can just poo poo it out immediately after and leave a bunch of time to spare. I couldn't infer anything else from it because I did the old-fashioned "ask questions, clarify, discuss the brute force solution, implement a faster method, explain why its faster" and was rejected for being too slow despite getting them all correct in the given time. And that was for L5! The only thing I saw that seems to be different is that you get to skip an initial code puzzle screen (that might not be a coding puzzle, depending on the person).
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Oct 14, 2021 15:26
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I feel like this ought to resonate for anyone who's done Google perf It reminds me of the Day Today bit about the pool supervisor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob1rYlCpOnM "Well, I would say this. I've worked here for over 18 years. In 1975, no-one died. In 1976, no-one died. In 1977, no-one died. [...] I mean I could go on."
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Oct 14, 2021 17:03
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It was mostly the bit "Surely I've exceeded expectations" that put me in the "hey, this is like perf" mindset. For those who don't know, your perf evaluation puts you into a set of broad buckets: Needs Improvement, Consistently Meets Expectations (CME), Exceeds Expectations, Strongly Exceeds Expectations, and Superb. (I think those are the right terms, it's been awhile). Most people in most cycles fall into the CME bucket, and depending on your circumstances, it can be extremely difficult to convince the perf council that you warrant anything better, regardless of your actual results obtained. So you can, indeed, strive very hard for three years to get recognition for your performance, and go from a bright-eyed and hopeful engineer to a jaded wreck, all without getting the recognition or support you think you deserve.
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Oct 14, 2021 17:39
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Does preparing talks for conferences ever get easier? Every time I think it will be fun and chill and it turns out a terrible fight with my tools, cutting down the length, extending the length, cutting it down again, ton of busy work to get numbers and examples you want... 
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Oct 14, 2021 20:24
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:It was mostly the bit "Surely I've exceeded expectations" that put me in the "hey, this is like perf" mindset. For those who don't know, your perf evaluation puts you into a set of broad buckets: Needs Improvement, Consistently Meets Expectations (CME), Exceeds Expectations, Strongly Exceeds Expectations, and Superb. (I think those are the right terms, it's been awhile). Most people in most cycles fall into the CME bucket, and depending on your circumstances, it can be extremely difficult to convince the perf council that you warrant anything better, regardless of your actual results obtained. So you can, indeed, strive very hard for three years to get recognition for your performance, and go from a bright-eyed and hopeful engineer to a jaded wreck, all without getting the recognition or support you think you deserve. At my pay and the pay I'd make at an equivalent level at a FAANG, I would be totally okay with never getting a promotion or raise that was more than just slightly higher than inflation per year. I understand why people would want this, but if I were interested in more money or a promotion I would simply job hop because internal politics seems just as exhausting as a job hunt, if not worse. They're both rear end though!!!!
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Oct 14, 2021 20:56
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Xarn posted:Does preparing talks for conferences ever get easier? Every time I think it will be fun and chill and it turns out a terrible fight with my tools, cutting down the length, extending the length, cutting it down again, ton of busy work to get numbers and examples you want... It gets easier with experience but it's never going to be easy.
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Oct 14, 2021 21:31
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Good Will Hrunting posted:At my pay and the pay I'd make at an equivalent level at a FAANG, I would be totally okay with never getting a promotion or raise that was more than just slightly higher than inflation per year. I understand why people would want this, but if I were interested in more money or a promotion I would simply job hop because internal politics seems just as exhausting as a job hunt, if not worse. L5 and supposedly L4 are both terminal levels at Google where just continuing at CME is fine. 4 -> 5 hop still isn't worth optimizing for promo though I might be an extreme case since I thought the same about 3 -> 4 and pretty much just volunteered for lovely migrations for five years till I got bored and took on a project that accidentally got me promoted. Btw, I got my accidental promo project by telling my skip manager that I was bored and asking if there was anything else they needed done. Is this something I can repeat on a new team if I get bored again or is that a special case? oliveoil fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Oct 14, 2021 |
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Oct 14, 2021 22:07
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What, going to your skip-level manager to get non-boring project work? Why not just bring it up with your manager directly? If you're at L4 they should be helping you to identify L5-scoped work and helping you with career progression anyway.
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Oct 15, 2021 00:42
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Good point. Didn't think of that. When I did it the first time, it was because my skip was doing his annual 1:1 with all his indirect reports and asked what I was thinking. Told him I was bored and looking for a 20% project but maybe he could show me something else to work on.
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Oct 15, 2021 00:51
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I saw multiple managers at Google bend over backwards to find more interesting projects for reports that were not engaged in their current project, commonly with the new project not under them or even in the same reporting structure.
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Oct 15, 2021 04:24
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Nice. Thank you!
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Oct 15, 2021 13:48
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oliveoil posted:Good point. Didn't think of that. How in the world are you employable?
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Oct 15, 2021 13:48
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:It was mostly the bit "Surely I've exceeded expectations" that put me in the "hey, this is like perf" mindset. For those who don't know, your perf evaluation puts you into a set of broad buckets: Needs Improvement, Consistently Meets Expectations (CME), Exceeds Expectations, Strongly Exceeds Expectations, and Superb. (I think those are the right terms, it's been awhile). Most people in most cycles fall into the CME bucket, and depending on your circumstances, it can be extremely difficult to convince the perf council that you warrant anything better, regardless of your actual results obtained. So you can, indeed, strive very hard for three years to get recognition for your performance, and go from a bright-eyed and hopeful engineer to a jaded wreck, all without getting the recognition or support you think you deserve. quote:Don't glorify heroes, Perf is based around constantly making the individual strive for something they think they want, working themselves to the bone for what they have no guarantee of achieving. That’s not a good place to be, and it’s just a microcosm of western society and its endless grind. For your own mental health, don’t buy into that poo poo. “Stand by your word. Make fair rules. Do the right thing. Work when it's time. Only do not contend, and you will not go wrong.”
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Oct 15, 2021 14:17
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I completely agree with that mindset Pollyanna but didn’t you just start at Google, the literal definition of the toxic perf cycle?
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Oct 15, 2021 15:12
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Blinkz0rz posted:How in the world are you employable? Just reliably get poo poo done I guess.
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Oct 15, 2021 15:19
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