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Greg Legg posted:I think the fact that this has become something of a culture war issue is what makes it hard for me to understand. I can accept Blumenthal's anti-lockdown stance because he correctly understands that any lockdown the government would impose would probably not provide people with the necessary resources to lock down, like just paying people money to stay home for a few months. Everyone posting here in this thread knows that there's almost no chance of that happening right now. No, I think you've about got the right of it there - so far as I know there hasn't been much of an alternative suggested from Blumenthal - but I'll admit my ignorance as to a lot of their reporting that lives on Rokfin because...well I'll be frank and probably get told I have lib brain but whatever, I don't think Rokfin is the answer to youtube censorship. I still believe that a baseline reality needs to be adhered to, and seeing Greyzone stuff bookended with literal flat earth and faked moon landing nonsense does more harm to the credulity of independent journalism than I think youtube could ever do, but that's kind of tangential anyway. I personally chalk it p to a sense that 'well the government isn't going to do it right, all it's going to do is hurt people and make them miserable and gently caress up people with depression even more, so why loving bother with it at all?' like, if they're gonna just leave everyone to fend for themselves in covid wasteland, at least give people the opportunity to thunderdome it out? It makes a bizarre, macabre kind of sense if your brain is broken enough, I guess. it's obviously not the right thing, it's obviously not the best thing, obviously we want a shutdown will full protections and UBI, but we're not gonna get it so...have the decency to let us fend for ourselves?
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Oct 12, 2021 15:06
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it's technically correct to say "you can't keep locking down forever, because people can't work when poo poo is locked-down, and if they can't work, they starve" the correct answer to this is "the government should pay people to stay home, so that the lockdown can be realistically observed by people" if you don't believe that the government is ever going to land on that correct answer, it's natural to then gravitate towards "we shouldn't do a lockdown at all"
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Oct 12, 2021 15:14
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Lib and let die posted:No, I think you've about got the right of it there - so far as I know there hasn't been much of an alternative suggested from Blumenthal - but I'll admit my ignorance as to a lot of their reporting that lives on Rokfin because...well I'll be frank and probably get told I have lib brain but whatever, I don't think Rokfin is the answer to youtube censorship. I still believe that a baseline reality needs to be adhered to, and seeing Greyzone stuff bookended with literal flat earth and faked moon landing nonsense does more harm to the credulity of independent journalism than I think youtube could ever do, but that's kind of tangential anyway. Yeah I haven't checked out the rockfin really. I just listen to the feed that gets posted on soundcloud. I think we agree. It's just so hard to discuss this stuff because people on both sides react so strongly. gradenko_2000 posted:it's technically correct to say "you can't keep locking down forever, because people can't work when poo poo is locked-down, and if they can't work, they starve" This also makes sense. 100% I cannot tell you folks how refreshing it is to have a good faith discussion about this and how much I need it right now.
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Oct 12, 2021 15:19
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gradenko_2000 posted:it's technically correct to say "you can't keep locking down forever, because people can't work when poo poo is locked-down, and if they can't work, they starve" The issue is always in terms of the government's ability to actually regulate public behavior afaik. China can have a "draconian" covid policy that actually works because they have the information infrastructure and enforcement power to actually track the virus and isolate it within specific communities. First World countries lack this ability, so the solution as far as there can be one is to just lock down everything and socially alienate people even more. If you're not willing to go as far as China to actually control the pandemic then what you're ultimately doing is ruining society to keep a lid on your bodycount.
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Oct 12, 2021 16:24
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I think we’re all struggling to deal with the speed with which this crisis is being used to facilitate the “great reset.” the switch to smartphones and the app economy played out over a decade, the covid-induced switch to hyper-surveillance and mandates as a form of social control has happened over the span of a year. it’s the tidal forces ripping society apart as we barrel toward the singularity of the crisis of capital accumulation.
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Oct 12, 2021 16:25
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comedyblissoption posted:you know who was right about syria? I need evidence of Jimmy opposing US interference in Syria prior to June 2012 before he is sufficiently pure
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Oct 12, 2021 17:12
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Greg Legg posted:It might not be a popular stance but my understanding is that ivermectin can help with covid symptoms when prescribed. I wouldn't rely on it because you still have to get covid which seems less than ideal to me because it's so new. is there any evidence of this or is it still just the one Brazilian study that got pulled before peer review? is it palliative or recuperative?
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Oct 12, 2021 17:44
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gradenko_2000 posted:if you don't believe that the government is ever going to land on that correct answer, it's natural to then gravitate towards "we shouldn't do a lockdown at all" who in power in the US is even considering lockdowns anymore? seems like they’re making up a guy to be mad at Centrist Committee posted:the covid-induced switch to hyper-surveillance and mandates as a form of social control has happened over the span of a year. similarly, what mandates? there aren’t even mask mandates anymore let alone testing, vaccine, or travel mandates
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Oct 12, 2021 17:45
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indigi posted:is there any evidence of this or is it still just the one Brazilian study that got pulled before peer review? is it palliative or recuperative? There's been a few studies now and most of them are fine if a little short on participants. Only a couple have been retracted due to bad data. https://ivmmeta.com/
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Oct 12, 2021 18:22
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Not So Fast posted:There's been a few studies now and most of them are fine if a little short on participants. Only a couple have been retracted due to bad data. oh that seems promising, good enough that it could be able to help our overwhelmed medical system at least. I’m tentatively pro horse paste now. seems like it’d be even more effective with widespread regular testing
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Oct 12, 2021 18:25
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indigi posted:oh that seems promising, good enough that it could be able to help our overwhelmed medical system at least. I’m tentatively pro horse paste now thats real loving disingenuous, but do go off
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Oct 12, 2021 18:27
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Delta-Wye posted:thats real loving disingenuous, but do go off huh
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Oct 12, 2021 18:29
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indigi posted:who in power in the US is even considering lockdowns anymore? seems like they’re making up a guy to be mad at They're not criticizing US policy. Recent remarks have been about NZ and Aus
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Oct 12, 2021 18:30
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gradenko_2000 posted:They're not criticizing US policy. Recent remarks have been about NZ and Aus oh snap, did they suspend their benefits? I’m not up on current AUS/NZ situation but iirc they were doing some fairly generous payments to people who couldn’t work during lockdown
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Oct 12, 2021 18:34
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indigi posted:similarly, what mandates? there aren’t even mask mandates anymore let alone testing, vaccine, or travel mandates federal government, large corporations, blue state school systems, coastal city nightlife, etc. same patchwork of technocratic attenuation as everything else in america
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Oct 12, 2021 19:14
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as a costal city dweller nightlife is unmasked and unvaxxed (except for Broadway but that barely counts) and my nephew in a Biden +30 county is unmasked in school. I wish we had some mandates my company is requiring vaccines starting Nov 30th but that’s hardly a “mandate”
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Oct 12, 2021 19:20
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indigi posted:as a costal city dweller nightlife is unmasked and unvaxxed (except for Broadway but that barely counts) and my nephew in a Biden +30 county is unmasked in school. I wish we had some mandates I don’t want to argue with you, I’m just using the magic of the internet to communicate what things are like in my quantum reality
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Oct 12, 2021 20:07
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I just don’t understand where they’re coming from. I just looked up Australias lockdown payments and they’re still giving 300-450 a week if you’re in an official lockdown and can’t work plus enhanced overall unemployment benefits, so I don’t get why those lockdowns are worth getting all upset over. I’m happy to be wrong about the ivermectin thing given it’s apparent efficacy, it can be a very useful tool in a place like the US
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Oct 12, 2021 20:14
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indigi posted:I just don’t understand where they’re coming from. I just looked up Australias lockdown payments and they’re still giving 300-450 a week if you’re in an official lockdown and can’t work plus enhanced overall unemployment benefits, so I don’t get why those lockdowns are worth getting all upset over. I’m happy to be wrong about the ivermectin thing given it’s apparent efficacy, it can be a very useful tool in a place like the US our liberties lol
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Oct 12, 2021 20:36
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Greg Legg posted:It might not be a popular stance but my understanding is that ivermectin can help with covid symptoms when prescribed. I wouldn't rely on it because you still have to get covid which seems less than ideal to me because it's so new. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58170809
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Oct 12, 2021 20:47
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well that’s a bummer
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Oct 12, 2021 21:14
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Check the response to that on the website I posted. Basically this is what I meant by a few of the studies using false data, but most of the studies are fine.
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Oct 12, 2021 21:43
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Not So Fast posted:Check the response to that on the website I posted. Basically this is what I meant by a few of the studies using false data, but most of the studies are fine. the website you posted has its own problems https://twitter.com/GidMK/status/1422044335076306947
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Oct 12, 2021 22:19
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https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1447764019260047360 come on max
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Oct 12, 2021 22:48
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gradenko_2000 posted:They're not criticizing US policy. Recent remarks have been about NZ and Aus I'm sure Max is all but irrelevant to it but here in New Zealand we're suffering from what I consider to be media induced lockdown fatigue.
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Oct 12, 2021 23:10
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go away
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Oct 13, 2021 00:32
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AnimeIsTrash posted:go away
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Oct 13, 2021 00:34
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AnimeIsTrash posted:go away nah
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Oct 13, 2021 00:38
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no i will not come on max
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Oct 13, 2021 01:55
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I don't really have a position on this with real confidence either way, but Jimmy Dore was prescribed ivermectin by his doctor. This is something I have a problem with when it comes to Blumenthal's position regarding coronavirus because if he's against lockdowns and things like masks, what is his alternative? If he's mentioned it I missed it. For what it's worth I spend 7 hours a day in many different schools and I've never seen evidence that any of the kids care about wearing masks. They just wear them and go about their day.
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Oct 13, 2021 01:55
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sure feels like focusing on media personalities instead of the actual news they report is a convenient way to try and discredit them when they inevitably turn out to have dumbass opinions on something or the other
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Oct 13, 2021 02:00
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Like it never occurred to him that the kids seem demoralized because the song is stupid.
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Oct 13, 2021 02:02
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Greg Legg posted:For what it's worth I spend 7 hours a day in many different schools and I've never seen evidence that any of the kids care about wearing masks. They just wear them and go about their day. yeah lol kids, especially at that age, are the least likely to complain about it because thats just the way it is and everyone has to do it.
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Oct 13, 2021 02:03
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Someone dub over that clip with Offspring - The Kids Aren’t Alright. Thanks
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Oct 13, 2021 02:06
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I really regret bringing up Max's views on Covid in this thread. I don't care. The whole point was to say that people don't have to have perfect opinions to do useful reporting.
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Oct 13, 2021 02:07
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Atrocious Joe posted:I really regret bringing up Max's views on Covid in this thread. I dunno, I liked the discussion. But yeah Max is generally on point on most other issues.
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Oct 13, 2021 02:10
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I think the perspective to keep in mind here is that none of their opinions on COVID make it onto The Grayzone.
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Oct 13, 2021 03:21
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gradenko_2000 posted:I think the perspective to keep in mind here is that none of their opinions on COVID make it onto The Grayzone. it wont stop stupid people whining about it sadly
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Oct 13, 2021 04:34
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Atrocious Joe posted:I really regret bringing up Max's views on Covid in this thread. Yeah it's kinda hosed up how much of journalism is policy advice imo. It should be more straight reporting on facts. Keep that poo poo to editorials. Although point taken about the covid stuff in particular being kept to Twitter etc.
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Oct 13, 2021 05:38
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gradenko_2000 posted:I think the perspective to keep in mind here is that none of their opinions on COVID make it onto The Grayzone. good point
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Oct 13, 2021 05:55
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