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GorfZaplen posted:Noted bastions of informed takes, animefeminist and animenewsnetwork. So far all you've said is "don't like it don't watch it" and written a troll response "maybe you're the chud for not cheering on the Japanese freedom fighters and you're obviously an American shouting outrage." Are you actually going to add anything or just continue being snide.
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Oct 13, 2021 19:28
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Tales of Woe posted:i dont think you have to be an uncritical fan to be wary of heavily extrapolating political intent from episode 1 of a 24 episode series feeling this especially when this show has been hyped on the hate boner people had for Build Divers since it was announced
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Oct 13, 2021 19:30
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The Colonel posted:watched the l-gaim ova. it's actually kind of surreal, like it goes beyond gundam endless waltz levels of retconning and inserting stuff in, the entire thing takes place in episode 15 except it's an alt universe version of episode 15 with a bunch of new characters and where the events of the previous and later episodes couldn't have possibly happened. really cool animation that gets kinda trippy though and the villain is a guy who operates his heavy metal by playing a keyboard He looks like one of those aliens from Sailor Moon R.
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Oct 13, 2021 19:32
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Arc Hammer posted:So far all you've said is "don't like it don't watch it" and written a troll response "maybe you're the chud for not cheering on the Japanese freedom fighters and you're obviously an American shouting outrage." I'm being entirely sincere in my dismissal of takes from the infamous blowjob knees website
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Oct 13, 2021 19:33
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I find animefeminist to be pretty strong, actually. I don't always agree with their conclusions, but they're generally sourced from the text. But please, elaborate.
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Oct 13, 2021 19:34
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I'm also entirely sincere about how it's only ever Americans that get upset about this stuff
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Oct 13, 2021 19:34
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This is Canada erasure. The politeness is a front to hide our deep seated insecurities.
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Oct 13, 2021 19:37
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Squidster posted:I find animefeminist to be pretty strong, actually. I don't always agree with their conclusions, but they're generally sourced from the text. But please, elaborate. A writer said that the yuri anime Citrus was problematic because the characters had shiny red knees, which they called "blowjob knees", which is a pretty weird thing to say about a show about lesbians!
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Oct 13, 2021 19:38
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Arc Hammer posted:This is Canada erasure. The politeness is a front to hide our deep seated insecurities. drat, you're Canadian? You live like this?
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Oct 13, 2021 19:39
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Squidster posted:I'm not sure why noting that the show has xenophobic dogwhistles is in any way controversial. This isn't something DW is inventing from whole cloth. neither is animefeminist, a site that publishes two articles a month and also GorfZaplen posted:A writer said that the yuri anime Citrus was problematic because the characters had shiny red knees, which they called "blowjob knees", which is a pretty weird thing to say about a show about lesbians! both ann and animefem have an extremely obvious recurring pattern of analyzing works exclusively through an american lib lens, with no cultural context or any good faith extended. so linking them to back up the argument here is basically proving the point.
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Oct 13, 2021 19:44
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in fact that amaim article is literally by the blowjob knees person, lol i would also like to lol at this sentence quote:Darling in the FranXX could do no wrong amongst a certain audience of chuds until the second cour fell apart visually. anyone who liked this extremely popular show is a chud Endorph fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Oct 13, 2021 |
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Oct 13, 2021 19:45
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the anifem article praising flip flappers' class s episode couldn't go a few sentences without making GBS threads on sound euphonium for things that turned out to largely be people misrepresenting the actual text of the novels, which weren't translated and also were not finished at the time. their article on kindred spirits is also insane, i can't describe the title of it as anything less than deliberately provocative and disingenuous, and the article makes some bizarre assumptions such as the idea that being 18+ implicitly makes the target audience of the vn straight men despite this not really actually being much other than a bad faith assumption, in an article that in general keeps seeking ways to take the game in the worst faith possible and interprets things like less choice driven, more nonlinear and episode-based storytelling as intentional voyeurism, or even assuming the game somehow despite having lines where it very directly confronts the idea of lesbianism just being a phase, is still somehow depicting lesbianism as a phase that the girls can grow out of. it's a bizarre article, the game is not beyond criticism and some of the criticisms they make are valid but just as many are poo poo you could say about reading a yuri manga like bloom into you. (which speaking of, ann once published an article on that tried to be critical of its asexual rep, but just ended up making absolutely nuts assumptions about asexual people that were way more offensive than what the manga does lol) i cant speak to literally all of their output but those are just a couple very notable instances i can think of of anifem putting out writing about lesbian media that takes that media in a severely bad faith light for little to no reason related to the actual text present, i dont really trust them for any analysis after that The Colonel fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Oct 13, 2021 |
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Oct 13, 2021 19:53
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in fact lets count the references to american politics in that articlequote:the War on Terror memories quote:I wonder if she has thoughts vis a vis Margaret Thatcher’s implementation of girl power quote:maybe it’s remembering Build the Wall literally two years ago, quote:This is an anime about loving “anchor babies.” quote:If this was set in America we’d be watching a white Texas farm woman making apple pie while tenderly planting a kiss on her gun baby quote:Then you end up with an anime version of Red Dawn quote:with narrative logic that would be at home in a Ben Shapiro novel. quote:. The human cost of Cyberpunk 2077 doesn’t matter, quote:a certain audience of chuds this review contains 5 paragraphs so there's nearly two references to western politics per paragraph. meanwhile, all the conversation about japanese politics is confined to a single blob of hyperlinks with no actual discussion. quote:Its production cycle and airing also coincides with recent conversations in Japan about immigration policy reform, the exploitation of foreign visa workers, inhumane conditions at foreign detention centers, and abuse of immigrants by officials i understand writing to your audience a bit but if you do want to make this assertion surely you could just use a western political reference or two as framing and then discuss the nuances of it in the context of japanese politics? as it stands this is an article about how a japanese anime about japan making explicit references to modern japanese cultural issues fits into american politics. im not opposed to this conversation, or 'trying to turn this forum into reddit,' my issue is how people are incapable of having this conversation outside the context of their own limited, american centric view of the world, and immediately leaping to the worst faith interpretations in an attempt to prop up their own leaky, disparate politics. rather than an earnest interpretation of the text as presented and the context it exists in, its all gut feelings and regurgitated trump administration trauma. Endorph fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Oct 13, 2021 |
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Oct 13, 2021 19:55
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Specific articles can be flawed or outright terrible, but for me that just means those individual writers are bad at those specific subjects (or I simply disagree with them).
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Oct 13, 2021 20:01
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Endorph posted:in fact that amaim article is literally by the blowjob knees person, lol Their problems with the back half of Darling in the Franxx was the visuals?
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Oct 13, 2021 20:02
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I would also like to point out that I went and checked the r/anime thread for episode 1 and they're literally having this exact same conversation, and the comments bringing up the nationalist critique are some of the highest rated comments in that thread.
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Oct 13, 2021 20:04
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kyoukai senki might go real hard into right wing nationalism, i dunno. but i also don't care because the show is boring.
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Oct 13, 2021 20:04
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Gripweed posted:Their problems with the back half of Darling in the Franxx was the visuals?
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Oct 13, 2021 20:04
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this heterosexuality isn't 4K 60fps enough
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Oct 13, 2021 20:08
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i'm not going to trust the output of a site if they've multiple times in the past published analysis that i found flagrantly incorrect and misrepresentative of stories that deserve better, even cluttering up what interesting analysis might in fact be present
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Oct 13, 2021 20:10
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GimmickMan posted:One of the things i love about old tomino shows is how you can clearly see him taking concepts from one series into the next. I never watched L-Gaim but what little I know clearly paints it as the missing link between Dunbine and Zeta in the evolutionary tree of his work and, well, looking it up, it is Tomino's weirdness with women goes way back. There's an episode of Yuusha Raideen where the pilot gets moody... so the adult men start pressuring his girlfriend to sleep with him to cheer him up. The issue is resolved when she instead cradles the pilot in her lap while he cries, because what he really wanted the whole time was a mother figure. It is amazingly hosed up, and it's exactly the weirdness you'd expect from Tomino in his later shows.
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Oct 13, 2021 20:10
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Schwarzwald posted:Tomino's weirdness with women goes way back. There's an episode of Yuusha Raideen where the pilot gets moody... so the adult men start pressuring his girlfriend to sleep with him to cheer him up. The issue is resolved when she instead cradles the pilot in her lap while he cries, because what he really wanted the whole time was a mother figure. It is amazingly hosed up, and it's exactly the weirdness you'd expect from Tomino in his later shows. Lmao Jesus. Is that the episode Starseeker refused to translate for like six years?
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Oct 13, 2021 20:13
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:kyoukai senki might go real hard into right wing nationalism, i dunno. but i also don't care because the show is boring. To be honest the show would only be improved by a Yukio Mishima analogue showing up.
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Oct 13, 2021 20:17
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80s tomino is wild cause you can go a whole show without him really getting weird about it like with dunbine, where marvel is treated pretty normally overall, and then you can get. zeta gundam. or the middle chunk of l-gaim my favorite thing about the middle chunk of l-gaim is how incoherent leccee's writing gets cause of that. tomino why did you set up this dramatic rivalry-romance between leccee and gablae based in gablae's weird sexism and view of leccee being too weak to fight, being a woman, and then... completely separate leccee from the main group and never have the two of them really interact again. what was the purpose. The Colonel fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Oct 13, 2021 |
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Oct 13, 2021 20:18
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GorfZaplen posted:To be honest the show would only be improved by a Yukio Mishima analogue showing up.
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Oct 13, 2021 20:19
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GorfZaplen posted:Lmao Jesus. Is that the episode Starseeker refused to translate for like six years? Nah, it's before she joined, IIRC. Believe it or not it's one of the better episodes (if incredibly uncomfortable) just because it's an episode where something actually happens. GorfZaplen posted:I'm also entirely sincere about how it's only ever Americans that get upset about this stuff "The manga and animation about which I have been speaking so critically is today being used to promote the nation of Japan, and so I cannot bring myself to celebrate how these forms of expression have gained in popularity." - Eiji Otsuka, professor at the International Research Center for Japanese Studies There's no shortage of bad faith or simply badly written and argued "culture war" stuff out there, but lets not pretend that it's only ever Americans who have criticized anime for having nationalist sympathies. Leiji Matsumoto's work was criticized for it even back in the 70s, and you can find articles written by Japanese scholars saying as much easily enough. Mecha anime in particular can end up nationalist almost by accident. It turns out that when a common convention of your genre is "heroic soldiers use a war machine maintained by his countrymen to defend their homeland from evil invading others" you can very easily end up there. Since we're already talking about Raideen, that was basically the one robot show that Tomino and Nagahama did that followed that convention, and they both heavily pushed back against it afterwards. (Voltes V and Zambot 3 are both pretty much "anti-Raideens.") Now, I like Yuusha Raideen (and Getter Robo, and Shin Mazinger Zero, and Schwarzenegger's Commando) so I'm not about to call anyone a chud for liking whatever anime. Firstly, that seems dumb and unproductive, and secondly, they're works of art open to interpretation and redemptive reading. But if someone told me how a show about Japan being invaded because they just didn't have enough kids plus too many foreigners showed up seems a teensy bit fascy, I don't think that's too terribly outrageous. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Oct 13, 2021 |
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Oct 13, 2021 22:02
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GorfZaplen posted:I'm also entirely sincere about how it's only ever Americans that get upset about this stuff Personally, I'm coming at this from a European perspective. Plenty of literature in plenty of countries around here that ties fertility to cultural, military, and economic supremacy, and sees a decline in the number of babies people have as a deadly threat to civilisation at the hands of predatory foreigners. It isn't just American libs who object to the idea that culture is something that you're born with, and that can best be preserved through the fertility of a country's women and the martial potency of its sons. Plenty of folks around the world with experience of that sort of line of thinking and its (usually horrific) consequences.
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Oct 13, 2021 22:26
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I think it's fine to be wary but this is also reading a hell.of a lot into a minute long background blurb!
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Oct 13, 2021 22:32
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I think the real issue this demonstrates is how bad the Muv Luv Alternative anime is, that everyone is latching onto this random mediocre Sunrise anime as the fascist discourse of the season.
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Oct 13, 2021 22:33
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you will note that europe is also not japan
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Oct 13, 2021 22:33
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GorfZaplen posted:I think the real issue this demonstrates is how bad the Muv Luv Alternative anime is, that everyone is latching onto this random mediocre Sunrise anime as the fascist discourse of the season.
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Oct 13, 2021 22:34
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Endorph posted:the real cultural fascism is them making everyones hair normal Unacceptable parameters. Reset immediately.
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Oct 13, 2021 22:37
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From an Australian perspective I will say the show sounds pretty 'woke' for having Australia as the face of the enemy occupation forces.
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Oct 13, 2021 22:45
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The Colonel posted:80s tomino is wild cause you can go a whole show without him really getting weird about it like with dunbine, where marvel is treated pretty normally overall, and then you can get. zeta gundam. or the middle chunk of l-gaim The amazing thing about Zeta is you have somewhere around half the female cast wind up making these speeches about Feminism and Women's Roles and The Nature of Birth... And then the other surviving women in the cast go "What even is this bullshit? No, seriously, I do not understand what you're saying, but it sounds insane." (And then most of both groups die, often to motivate men, but to be fair to Zeta, most of the cast in general dies to motivate people.) It doesn't quite feel like a show at war with itself, exactly, but it does feel like a show where the craziest ideas had people in the writer's room go "That's what we're going with?", unlike Victory where similar insane speeches had everyone in the cast just nod and talk more about babies.
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Oct 13, 2021 23:21
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Actually in Warriors on the Borderline, the low birth rate and immigration policies will turn out to be the major factor for EastAsia and Oceania invading. Because they didn’t have enough of a workforce, Japan had to focus on advanced automation technology (explaining the AI buddies) to run factories for manufacturing. This made EastAsia and Oceania want to invade Japan and steal this technology. If only Japan had a more free immigration policy, this never would have happened! See I can read dumb poo poo into one throw away line in a multitude of economic factors to give an excuse to make a show. The poo poo is slightly less nationalist than GI Joe and it’s probably fine.
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Oct 13, 2021 23:23
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i think tomino had two sides of his brain and those sides were at war with each other and it took until turn a for both sides to make peace so he could give us normal shows, like wings of rean
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Oct 13, 2021 23:48
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L-Gaim is my favorite Tomino show by far, and I love almost everything Tomino writes even when he's being a weirdo.
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Oct 14, 2021 00:32
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i don't recall zambot 3 having too much of tominos old weirdness about women but there is that one ep with the incredibly dysfunctional family of kappeis cousin also i feel like if you're gonna talk about a show being weird or fashy it's probably better timed if airings been like, 2/3 through a show and more stuffs been developed and not like.... ep 1
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Oct 14, 2021 01:00
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Booky posted:also i feel like if you're gonna talk about a show being weird or fashy it's probably better timed if airings been like, 2/3 through a show and more stuffs been developed and not like.... ep 1 It's very important to get your hot takes out early so you can show how much smarter you are than everyone else.
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Oct 14, 2021 01:19
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Booky posted:i don't recall zambot 3 having too much of tominos old weirdness about women but there is that one ep with the incredibly dysfunctional family of kappeis cousin Two episodes in. And the second episode was about how kids these days need to learn how good it feels to do an honest day of farm work, which isn't any kind of morally wrong, but it definitely has some "Old man yells at cloud" energy.
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Oct 14, 2021 02:12
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