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Raskolnikov38 posted:I believe the Stalin was necessary take focuses on him being the only possible soviet leader that would have industrialized the union to the point needed for the war. yeah and if not stalin the man per se, the idea of the fully industrialized war machine totally controlled by the state. does anyone here think the US could have relocated every factory in the midwest to utah in the event of a successful invasion of the whole eastern seaboard, and then win the war?
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# ? Oct 2, 2021 04:20 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 13:28 |
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Some Guy TT posted:id be curious what reasoning if any there would be for say a trotskyist soviet union to not take the threat of hitler as seriously as stalin did I'm pretty sure the argument here is that the Soviet Union would less industrialized and less militarily developed under anyone besides Stalin. Someone like Trotsky or Bukharin would have kept the NEP longer, not pursued collectivization as hard, wouldn't have pushed for as much heavy industry, and so on. gradenko_2000 has issued a correction as of 05:58 on Oct 2, 2021 |
# ? Oct 2, 2021 05:02 |
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Sergg posted:
Wouldn't it be lot easier to just leave them untreated?
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# ? Oct 2, 2021 12:56 |
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Fish of hemp posted:Wouldn't it be lot easier to just leave them untreated? even untreated they would still consume resources
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# ? Oct 2, 2021 15:13 |
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Doctor Jeep posted:even untreated they would still consume resources it's possible they learned a lesson from MacArthur and the bonus army a few years prior
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# ? Oct 2, 2021 18:25 |
Fish of hemp posted:Wouldn't it be lot easier to just leave them untreated? Nazi armies are for parading victoriously, not hobbling around all crippled asking for money.
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# ? Oct 2, 2021 20:39 |
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Nazism (and fascism more broadly) also fetishize death and the honor in dying for your people. It’s not a suicidal tendency really but it is a sort of close friendship?
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# ? Oct 2, 2021 20:46 |
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https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1444675122049261577
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 01:22 |
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https://mobile.twitter.com/george_jazzcat/status/1443982836860653569 what im getting from this is that communism was kicking rad actually
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 01:53 |
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https://mobile.twitter.com/robkhenderson/status/1445429428750856196
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# ? Oct 5, 2021 21:29 |
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https://mobile.twitter.com/pseudoerasmus/status/1446401078858244096 long thread but a good one
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# ? Oct 10, 2021 04:10 |
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it's weird to me that east germany is simultaneously considered totally looted in 1945 with heavy industry shipped east while also being, along with bulgaria, the shining examples of 20th century communism. i'd like to read something on this material basis, including poland's insistence on war indemnities which were pressured into cancellation by the ussr
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# ? Oct 10, 2021 04:17 |
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The Tsar obviously knew to invest in Eastern Poland early.
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# ? Oct 10, 2021 08:55 |
Grevling posted:Yeah Norse Greenlanders went there to trade with Dorset people and later Inuit (the Dorset culture lived in eastern arctic Canada and Greenland before the Inuit came a few hundred years ago) and possibly to get timber. There was also trade across the Bering Strait and way before 1492 the Inuit used iron tools from Asia. North-America definitely wasn't completely isolated from Eurasia. There's a theory that basque fishermen also went to America before Colombus.
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# ? Oct 10, 2021 11:41 |
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https://mobile.twitter.com/dsacathcaucus/status/1446475708629463050
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# ? Oct 10, 2021 18:34 |
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I've been reading David Stahel's "Retreat from Moscow" and I wanted to share a couple of bits and pieces that piqued my interest:quote:A further and more tangible explanation for the compliant attitude of the generals was sheer greed. ___ quote:Humor was one of the most important coping mechanisms for the soldiers at the front even though to the outsider a lot of it would be considered a ghoulish and macabre “gallows humour.”57 As one soldier remarked: “If we made jokes before some mission that were not entirely kosher, it was to cover our fear.”58 Similarly, Willy Peter Reese observed: “Our humour was born out of sadism, gallows humour, satire, obscenity, spite, rage, and pranks with corpses, squirted brains, lice, pus, and poo poo, the spiritual zero.”59 Such black humor often involved irony, which provided an insightful view into the war from the average soldier’s perspective.
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# ? Oct 11, 2021 17:34 |
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It's insane how hosed up and savage our unrestricted submarine warfare against the Japanese was. We sank all sorts of freighters, fishing ships, and civilian transports that were bringing refugees back after the Soviet conquest of Manchuria. The true numbers won't come out for decades.
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# ? Oct 13, 2021 04:45 |
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:civilian transports that were bringing refugees back after the Soviet conquest of Manchuria. weird, how did japanese civilians get into korea and manchuria
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# ? Oct 13, 2021 07:33 |
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i say swears online posted:weird, how did japanese civilians get into korea and manchuria hovercraft
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# ? Oct 13, 2021 08:45 |
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I find it extremely difficult to give any shits about fascist civilians suffering during the course of ww2
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# ? Oct 13, 2021 11:05 |
Ahh yes the extremely thoughtful 'they were the bad guys!!' analysis
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# ? Oct 13, 2021 19:49 |
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more or less. the fascist civilians were not unaware of what was being done in their names. if they wanted pity there should have been a thousand more stauffenbergs
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 00:24 |
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Slavvy posted:Ahh yes the extremely thoughtful 'they were the bad guys!!' analysis Finally, someone who sympathizes with my poor grandfather, tragically died while falling out of a guard tower.
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 01:34 |
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There is also a fairly obvious difference between fascist civilians back home and fascist "civilians" in occupied territory their government is currently committing a genocide in.
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 01:43 |
So, what, there are different grades of acceptable warcrimes depending on who you do them to...? Like you guys understand that war crimes are still war crimes even if you're doing it to the SS or whatever right? "They should've just shot Tojo if they didn't like it " isn't a take I expected to see here I gotta say.
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 02:01 |
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yeah its bad but war is all hell and you cannot refine it
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 02:08 |
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Terrible Opinions posted:There is also a fairly obvious difference between fascist civilians back home and fascist "civilians" in occupied territory their government is currently committing a genocide in. it always annoys me how people thinking japanese colonists on the outer islands killing themselves was a predictor of overall japanese civilian behavior in the latter stage of the war its like assuming that all israelis would personally murder a palestinian child with their bare hands just because a settler would do it the worst part of it is that despite this not being true at all its now an official part of post world war two mythology that japanese people are psychotic samurai as an innate racial trait you would never ever guess that the post vday insurrection in germany lasted way longer than it did in japan and killed a lot more people
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 02:29 |
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Slavvy posted:So, what, there are different grades of acceptable warcrimes depending on who you do them to...? gonna go out on a limb and say yes, doing war crimes to the SS is less reprehensible than doing them to e.g. some civilians
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 02:45 |
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 02:48 |
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what do you want dude? yeah its bad to burn cities to the ground but in the context of total war and fascism i'm not going to waste time pontificating on that specific instance
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 02:50 |
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Slavvy posted:If you're white (I am) and you think the solution to a lot of problems isn't just killing white people idk what to say, turn on your monitor and/or open a book I guess. Slavvy posted:That would be fine if half of them weren't sex offenders, give me the AK I'll do it myself. Slavvy posted:Murdering the rich may be fantastic but it's definitely a way out.
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 03:26 |
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We're not gonna feel bad for concentration camp guards just cause they're on a boat going home rather than mulched at their posts.
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 03:31 |
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Hmm yes, the Schutzstaffel, known worldwide for the three pillars of nonwhite membership, lack of sex crimes, and asceticism.
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 04:01 |
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yes! yes!! gently caress yes!!!
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 04:07 |
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The US doctrine against Japan was to kill as many Japanese people as possible and eventually they'd surrender. It worked, and it was a war crime. Maybe they could have won the war with fewer casualties if they hadn't done war crimes but that's not a question history is equipped to answer.
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 04:09 |
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Chamale posted:The US doctrine against Japan was to kill as many Japanese people as possible and eventually they'd surrender. It worked, and it was a war crime. Maybe they could have won the war with fewer casualties if they hadn't done war crimes but that's not a question history is equipped to answer. it all started when a fat gently caress named matthew c perry visited the ailing shogunate and demanded free szechuan sauce.... where it ended will shock u
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 04:17 |
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lmao you mental jujitsu'd yourself into getting upset about the SS getting capped
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 04:27 |
America being the model for much of what the nazis did is pretty amazing and understandably and regrettably understated in the history told in the us
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 04:29 |
Idgi is out of context quotes of me bullshitting meant to make me look bad? Terrible Opinions posted:We're not gonna feel bad for concentration camp guards just cause they're on a boat going home rather than mulched at their posts. This is reasonable, just want to note I don't somehow feel bad for any of the war crime dudes, don't know why it got taken that way. I just thought it was weird that one kind of war crime was ok but another wasn't; if the consensus is the concept of a war crime is, itself, bullshit then ok I'll take that. If we're talking what people 'deserve' then yeah the SS etc deserved the worst and hopefully most of them got it, I don't know why I have to say this. Dumb hypothetical: if someone in west Germany ~1950 found a way to round up a bunch of former SS camp guards and killed them, would that person have been prosecuted in an earnest way? Chamale posted:The US doctrine against Japan was to kill as many Japanese people as possible and eventually they'd surrender. It worked, and it was a war crime. Maybe they could have won the war with fewer casualties if they hadn't done war crimes but that's not a question history is equipped to answer. Yeah this is what I'm thinking about. The Nazis were explicitly genocidal so the war crimes were the point and they were big and bold. But with the allied nations it's a question of restraint vs whether bombing the poo poo out of cities impacted axis industry badly enough to be morally ok I guess, idk I'm just some idiot. Afaict the shipping blockades were what did most of the damage to the axis ability to fight.
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 05:03 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 13:28 |
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Presumably a bunch of these civilians being warcrimed are children.
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# ? Oct 14, 2021 05:41 |