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ruddiger posted:It’s kinda weird how the show always made it seem like Tony implied he was indoctrinated into the gangster lifestyle from a very young age by both Dickie and his father, but the movie shows them both insulating him from that and wanting him to be a regular Joe, especially with the talk about his future in the car. How old was he when he saw his dad chop that guys finger off? He would be around 13 or so. Johnny Boy by no accounts of anybody was a good person, except Tony's warped perception of his father. Since we have that Many Saints retcon that oh Dickie died? Time to join the mafia, cuz uhh that's what he would have wanted!!
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Oct 10, 2021 17:16
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Dickie was "like a god to him". That doesn't necessarily mean he got him into the family. He was more of a role model. Tony doesn't even have his crew together in the movie. It makes sense his dad and Dickie shielded him a bit while he was still in high school.
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Oct 10, 2021 17:26
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Man, I tried. I really tried to watch TMSoN but I had to nope out. The main thing that bugged me and that struck me right away was how cheap it looked, right from the opening scene, and how overall crappy I found the acting. I suppose I can see how some people find things to like about it and, admittedly, I only made it about a half hour in before deciding I had better things to do with my time and that it wasn't for me so it's only a partial review but man...it was pretty bad. The TV show even looked better and most certainly had better performances. The whole movie felt forced and very uncompelling.
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Oct 10, 2021 17:40
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Yeah somebody said earlier "HBO movie? This is like a made for Netflix movie before Netflix was huge." I think Vera Farmiga did an excellent job capturing Livia/Carmela moments.
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Oct 10, 2021 19:22
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Peter Daou Zen posted:Yeah somebody said earlier "HBO movie? This is like a made for Netflix movie before Netflix was huge." Those scenes with the school counselor and the burger were awesome. Best parts of the movie
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Oct 10, 2021 20:29
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Should have just given us a webisode of those two scenes.
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Oct 10, 2021 21:17
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THAT COOKIE poo poo MAKES ME NERVOUS
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Oct 11, 2021 04:11
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indiscriminately posted:Should have just given us a webisode of those two scenes. Ya supposed to push Webistics!
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Oct 11, 2021 04:25
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I watched TMSON again to see if I would like it better on rewatch and....I maybe liked it less. The characterization of Junior is even more bizarre and glaring this time. Something that I think the show does brilliantly is show Junior as a man who is petty, resentful and regretful but.....also clearly a guy who was, at least at one point, respected, fearsome and shrewd. There are scenes where this is explicit - think the "I'm in awe of you" scene. Tony and co blow smoke up his rear end plenty of times, but he doesn't get in the position he was in at the beginning of season 1 without pulling a lot of weight on his own. The Junior in the movie is a laughingstock who nobody, not even his own brother, shows respect. In fact the whole DiMeo family seems very.....small given everything we *know* is true from the standpoint of the show. The only person that seemingly even has a crew is Dickie. Obviously Tony's "I came in at the end" statement is full of bullshit, but its clear the DiMeos were a bigger deal in the 60s-70s than they are in the 90s, The family we see in TMSON isn't much bigger than Ralphie's crew throughout the show. Very odd. The only characterization that I liked was Pussy's father - something about it felt right that he would be a smart rear end but also the butt of a bunch of jokes from the rest of the crew. Mike N Eich fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Oct 12, 2021 |
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Oct 12, 2021 06:21
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I mostly agree but Juniors only really a captain at the start of the show and likely only inherited the position when Johnny died. Vito even makes captain and he's a walking punchline half the series.
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Oct 12, 2021 14:30
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banned from Starbucks posted:I mostly agree but Juniors only really a captain at the start of the show and likely only inherited the position when Johnny died. Vito even makes captain and he's a walking punchline half the series. Yeah but he’s still enough of a threat Tony needs to appease him
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Oct 12, 2021 15:00
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CAPTAIN? OF THE GOOD SHIP LOLLIPOP?
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Oct 12, 2021 18:03
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You know, on reflection, I think the problem is the movie crystallizes the characters we see in the show and just duplicates them completely 30 years in the past. The Junior we see in the late 60s early 70s is basically the guy we see in the Sopranos who's been laid low by decades of disappointment and resentment, health problems and legal problems - but thats not what this guy was (most likely) like at the time. We see glimpses of Junior's gangster competence throughout the show - how he's able to even create a criminal operation while in a mental institution, how he's able to engender loyalty in his crew in people like Mikey, Chucky and Bobby. Instead we just have a younger guy do an impression of him at age 75. It's the same deal with Silvio and Paulie - with even more baffling results. An early 20s Silvio has the same hunched walk and exaggerated mannerisms that just....don't make sense for a guy his age. If its meta commentary, I get it. There are definitely some people saying there's something to Chase poking fun at the audience with the fan service, and that may be possible. But it doesn't make it an enjoyable or thought provoking film experience.
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Oct 12, 2021 18:41
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They also really hosed with Silvio's age in the movie. The only indication that he may be the same age as Paulie and Pussy in the show is when he tells Paulie "We go back a long time" but everything else points to him being at least around the same age as Tony. They're mentioned as being in the same crew when the Feech heist comes up, their daughters are the same age and on the same sports teams, etc. Then the movie comes out and he's apparently he's a contemporary of Paulie and Pussy which makes him like fifteen years older than Tony. It also doesn't make sense that Tony and Silvio are so close if they didn't grow up together and there's almost no interaction in the movie between the two.
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Oct 12, 2021 18:58
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I only have scorn for the 'the depiction of the characters is being influenced by christopher telling the story' thing, but it really seems like the only defense anyone will be able to come up with wrt the junior/paulie/silvio cariacatures. Incidentally christopher also really wanted to tell the story of harold, because uhhhhhh
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Oct 12, 2021 19:04
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I mean even if that were the case, what does it actually add to the story. Unreliable narrator should have like a point and not just exist
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Oct 12, 2021 19:11
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Meta-commentary doesn't work coming from a patently bungled film. Many Saints is the film equivalent of walking around with your fly hanging open, zip up that fly and then maybe you can get away with poking fun at the audience (if that's really what's going on, I don't think it is).
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Oct 12, 2021 19:57
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My girlfriend and I watched the movie last night. It’s…really not good. Best praise I can give it is that Gandolfini’s son nailed his father’s mannerisms in the family dinner scene and that great scene with Farmiga, who also nailed the role. Half the show felt like a back door pilot for a Harold spin off, which….eh. Might be interesting, but the writing quality of the movie gives me pause in checking it out.
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Oct 12, 2021 20:03
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There are things there that make me think there might be a backdoor pilot to a Tony prequel series or movie - Michael Gandolfini was excellent and there are little references to future Tony stuff (the fact that the kid Harold kills is an 'Overall' and likely related to Tony's first murder), that they can mine it. But I dunno if there is an appetite for that and the box office returns are very...not good.
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Oct 12, 2021 20:13
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Watched it the other night and enjoyed myself, even if not everything added up. However, I can't believe Chase genuinely thought this would be legitimate cinematic fare. It was well-shot but still fell short in execution to a typical episode. Some good to great acting paired up with absolute dross. I liked Alessandro Nivola's depiction of Dicky and in particular the prison scenes with him and Ray Liotta, but unfortunately that whole aspect of the story kinda just fizzled out much like several other threads. The AV Club in its prime (sigh) used to have an annual ranking of Inessential entries in pop culture for a given year. Being deemed inessential had nothing to do with the actual quality of the end product, but rather more whether it needed to exist in the first place. I feel like TMSON would land squarely at #1 of the imaginary AV Club Inessential Movies of 2021 list.
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Oct 12, 2021 21:11
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Steve and Michael said there's a new oral history book coming out called "Woke Up This Morning". I can't imagine there's much left to say at this point after reading the other books and the write ups here so I'll probably pass. Also, this guy does some good write ups and the comments are surprisingly non lovely or the most part. He's not as good as Jerusalem but..who is? Some of you guys might like reading it. https://sopranosautopsy.com/season-6-part-i/the-fleshy-part-of-the-thigh-6-04/ I linked him to this thread so many he'll join up. It's kind of getting to be overkill lately though especially with the movie tanking and being a dud. I think I need a new show to get addicted to and apparently I'm too late for any Silcone Valley threads here and went through Generation Kill. Suggestions? For someone that likes Breaking Bad, Sopranos and The WIre?
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Oct 12, 2021 22:43
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Are you watching Better Call Saul? Because it's absolutely loving incredible and at least as good as Breaking Bad, and in a lot of ways even better.
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Oct 12, 2021 23:05
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It is absolutely better than BrBa. It's better than Mad Men and Sopranos, the wire too.
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Oct 12, 2021 23:08
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Jerusalem posted:Are you watching Better Call Saul? Because it's absolutely loving incredible and at least as good as Breaking Bad, and in a lot of ways even better. BCS is loving awesome but Netflix takes forever putting new seasons up so I'm only up thru S4.
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Oct 12, 2021 23:39
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On the bright side maybe by the time you get through 5 (which, spoiler alert, is loving AWESOME) then six will finally, finally, FINALLY be out.
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Oct 13, 2021 00:58
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https://twitter.com/timeimmemorial_/status/1448067650341515271 "That was like, 22 years ago"
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Oct 13, 2021 01:44
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Someone said Saul S5 is on British Netflix so you can just hop on a VPN to watch it.
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Oct 13, 2021 02:23
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Gaius Marius posted:Someone said Saul S5 is on British Netflix so you can just hop on a VPN to watch it. Yeah Netflix is the main distributor here so every episode goes on there day one.
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Oct 13, 2021 08:01
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I thought the Wire wasn't all that, not bad or anything just not what you guys made it out to be. I'm only into season 2, but I'm really liking Homicide: Life on the Streets. Too bad the visual quality is so poo poo but the core of the show is just so solid and for me, authentic. Definitely worth the watch
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Oct 13, 2021 12:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwbV6oVZ-aw
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Oct 14, 2021 01:54
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Realized it was kind of funny/strange all the guys on the show can go "I eat the italian food" and get commercial work the rest of their lives while the women probably can't for various reasons
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Oct 14, 2021 20:27
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codo27 posted:I thought the Wire wasn't all that, not bad or anything just not what you guys made it out to be. What don't you like about it if you don't mind me asking? It takes a little while to get rolling and can admittedly be hard to follow since it doesn't hold your hand very much and spreads out a lot of story lines but it locked in for me around half way through the first season. You might The Corner, which is Wire adjacent but a little more tight and is up for free on Youtube last I checked.
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Oct 14, 2021 21:33
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Again, its not that I *didn't* like it or certain aspects of it, its just some people here place it above or on the same level as the Sopranos and that just isn't the case for me. You know I was trying to remember the name of Idris Elba's character and I just cant. I'm so bad with names. Same thing with the final villain. I can remember Prop Joe, cant remember that young guys name. I didn't like him or his number 2 though, so thats something.
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Oct 15, 2021 11:59
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I think Sopranos is broadly like a portrait and The Wire is broadly like a landscape, and I think it's kinda hard to make direct comparisons/rankings since they're kind of apples and oranges.
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Oct 15, 2021 12:25
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I mean I same level is kind of nebulous. Sopranos is kind of goofy and schlocky drama. While the wire at least attempts to be a more serious grounded drama It doesn’t always get there IMO but that’s what they do so not a ton of overlap there
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Oct 15, 2021 17:44
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Peter Daou Zen posted:The only real question I have is why Janice was smoking while watching tv and Johnny Boy didn’t throw a poo poo fit at that ; THAT actually seems unrealistic. My mom was about the same age as Janice and smoked as a teen without any major repercussions. She was from a trashy family like Janice, too.
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Oct 15, 2021 18:13
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean I same level is kind of nebulous. Sopranos is kind of goofy and schlocky drama. While the wire at least attempts to be a more serious grounded drama I would say the Sopranos takes on the human condition in a much more sophisticated way than the Wire does, while the Wire takes on societal structures in a way that the Sopranos is mostly uninterested in exploring (other than perhaps the Mafia itself). I think the characters in the Sopranos feel real and human in a way that I'm not sure any other TV show I've ever watched has.
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Oct 15, 2021 19:05
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Mike N Eich posted:I would say the Sopranos takes on the human condition in a much more sophisticated way than the Wire does, while the Wire takes on societal structures in a way that the Sopranos is mostly uninterested in exploring (other than perhaps the Mafia itself). I think the characters in the Sopranos feel real and human in a way that I'm not sure any other TV show I've ever watched has. Yeah I definitely wouldn't characterise the drama in Sopranos as 'goofy and schlocky', even if there's a huge dose of comedy to it. The Wire goes in for broad jokes or comedy-drama fairly often, like most of Bird's trial, Hamsterdam, the serial killer plot, but honestly with a worse success rate. I do respect it for its own distinct ambitions and lord knows it handles racial issues more deftly than Sopranos
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Oct 15, 2021 19:12
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codo27 posted:Same thing with the final villain. I can remember Prop Joe, cant remember that young guys name. I didn't like him or his number 2 though, so thats something. This is hilarious given the character's overall arc and final scene in the series finale. Unless I'm missing a 
Laterite fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Oct 15, 2021 |
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Oct 15, 2021 20:23
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Speaking as a "neutral" in this debate and FWIW, I'm a johnny-come-lately who watched The Wire last year and just finished The Sopranos last week. Have to say unfortunately The Sopranos massively underwhelmed me. Very few scenes or character arcs emotionally impacted me and as the series drew to a close, I was pretty much just going through the motions when watching. No desire to watch the show again and it doesn't come close to The Wire, BCS, Breaking Bad and Deadwood for me. It seriously suffers from a lack of charismatic characters and the rambling final season didn't endear me to it.
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Oct 15, 2021 21:08
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