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ThomasPaine posted:I think that it's fair to expect physical violence to be exceptional, but I do wonder whether we might have significantly more co-operative MPs if they knew that there was a non-zero chance of being picked up and chucked off a bridge if they hosed off too many people Or more realistically they'd just arm all traffic wardens and pass the death penalty for anyone spoonerising their name on Twitter, with the loud approval of the press demanding a return to civility.
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Oct 15, 2021 15:59
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Apraxin posted:Yeah regardless of anything else, I don't think we've had an MP murdered for non-Ireland reasons since the pre-modern era, certainly not in living memory. Two in five years is... probably not a sign of a good direction. There where two other serious attempts in the decade before as well tbh, Stephen Timms got stabbed in the abdomen a few times at a constituency surgery 10 years back but survived and before that an aide was killed protecting an mp from a samurai sword wielding dude back in 2000 at a surgery
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Oct 15, 2021 15:59
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imagine I did the predator arm flex meme and the arms say Conservative MP and Knife Wielding Loon, and the hand grasp says Pro Cuts
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Oct 15, 2021 16:05
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keep punching joe posted:You missed out that chud militia who were planning to kidnap and execute the state governer because she wanted to to a Covid lockdown. A healthy social contract is one where the government don't fear for their lives because of their citizens, and the citizens don't fear for their lives from their government. Unfortunately, that particular Rubicon is pretty thoroughly crossed in the UK. 
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Oct 15, 2021 16:05
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In the US when people get upset they just go shoot up grocery stores. I guess in the UK they do it better? In all seriousness how could someone get close enough to knife a dude like that? I would think there'd be lots of public security at any event where a politician is at and getting close enough to knife someone enough to kill them would presumably be difficult.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:06
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It's not at all like that in the UK. MPs usually meet their local constituents in person with little or no security.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:08
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Ginette Reno posted:In the US when people get upset they just go shoot up grocery stores. I guess in the UK they do it better? Nah many local MPs meet with their constituents freely. My local MP will often have a stall outside the supermarket or in the town centre to let people bend his ear about local issues.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:08
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Ginette Reno posted:In the US when people get upset they just go shoot up grocery stores. I guess in the UK they do it better? Uh yeah the UK is not like the US. MPs hold surgeries that are open to the public and you can meet them one on one.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:08
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Ginette Reno posted:
lol no. It was most likely just the guy and his assistant in a dusty old public hall. There was probably a cake sale and a karate class either side of his session.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:10
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our politicians do constituency surgeries where it's just them a secretary and anyone willing to make an appointment and turn up; it's a weird quirk of the parliamentary system that this applies to all MPs including the cabinet and prime minster etc. the more senior cabinet ministers will have a PPO with them but even junior minsters are out and about on their own
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Oct 15, 2021 16:10
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Ginette Reno posted:In all seriousness how could someone get close enough to knife a dude like that? I would think there'd be lots of public security at any event where a politician is at and getting close enough to knife someone enough to kill them would presumably be difficult. MPs rarely have security unless its a large public event. In my constituency it's fairly common to see Nicola Sturgeon out and about with maybe only a couple of local Councillors/assistants, which is actually quite unnerving given her high profile and the amount of absolute psychos who absolutely hate her guts. This sort of thing is only going to increase the distance between elected representatives and their constituents and I can't see that being in any way a positive outcome.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:11
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Ginette Reno posted:In the US when people get upset they just go shoot up grocery stores. I guess in the UK they do it better? MPs get very little personal protection as standard, and spend a good deal of their time at local offices in whichever bumfuck town that's usually just a standard commercial unit on the high street, alone from your usual bookies and pubs and charity shops and takeaways.* They also have regular surgeries where they mingle pretty freely with whoever turns up. I imagine the police keep a bit of an eye on them and respond quite quickly to any disturbance, but it would not be difficult to attack someone as today proves. I think only govt ministers have a permanent security detail, and maybe even then only the more senior ones * A funny little quirk I noticed when I lived in Glasgow was that one of the local (Tory) MSP's offices in Maryhill gave zero indication of which party he represented. Usually they have the logo and stuff, but this was just a plain window with his name and 'MSP'. I imagine he knew he'd bankrupt himself replacing his windows ever other day if he openly had 'Conservative and Unionist Party' written up there lol. e: fb ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Oct 15, 2021 |
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Oct 15, 2021 16:12
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loving hate the discourse around poo poo like this with statements saying how kind and generous X was, despite them voting to royal shaft the poor and throw asylum seekers back out to sea
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Oct 15, 2021 16:15
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~ G O N E ~ B U T ~ N O T ~ F O R G O T T E N ~
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Oct 15, 2021 16:18
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Looke posted:loving hate the discourse around poo poo like this with statements saying how kind and generous X was, despite them voting to royal shaft the poor and throw asylum seekers back out to sea it's grotesque, yeah but mawkish sentimentality about complete pieces of poo poo is basically the UK's raison d'etre EDIT sorry REASON TO BE I didnt mean to use FRENCH words from the CONTINANT
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Oct 15, 2021 16:22
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Rustybear posted:our politicians do constituency surgeries where it's just them a secretary and anyone willing to make an appointment and turn up; it's a weird quirk of the parliamentary system that this applies to all MPs including the cabinet and prime minster etc. I've heard that Boris almost never does surgeries and gets various deputies and assistants to do it for him.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:23
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Yeah, it's quite frustrating that even usually on-point people are reverting to this kind of 'terrible tragedy, murdered for just doing his job, heartbreaking, so sad, couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke' bullshit. Why should I pretend to give a flying gently caress that some Tory nonce got killed?Bobby Deluxe posted:I've heard that Boris almost never does surgeries and gets various deputies and assistants to do it for him. I kind of always assumed the PM and most ministers would employ people to do their surgeries. Much though I hate Bojo et al, I do think it's a bit ridiculous that the head of government is expected to spent time listening to indignant pensioners in a village hall in Stoke or whatever, rather than, you know, doing important national-level stuff. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Oct 15, 2021 |
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Oct 15, 2021 16:25
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ThomasPaine posted:MPs get very little personal protection as standard, and spend a good deal of their time at local offices in whichever bumfuck town that's usually just a standard commercial unit on the high street, alone from your usual bookies and pubs and charity shops and takeaways. They also have regular surgeries where they mingle pretty freely with whoever turns up. I imagine the police keep a bit of an eye on them and respond quite quickly, but it would not be difficult to attack someone as today proves. Pretty much only the PM gets a permanent escort. Most of the senior ministers will have a personal protection officer or two from a pool at their disposal, although they mostly don't bother with them (although they'll generally be driven to and from their office rather than walk). Junior ministers and other MPs, including LOTO, get nothing unless there's a particular threat - just look at any of the doorstepping footage of Corbyn, for example. I actually think this is a good thing, for the most part, and crucially *so do most MPs*. After Stephen Timms was stabbed MPs (at least in the Met area, I'm not sure about others) have been able to request police presence at their surgeries and almost none of them have done so, mostly because they won't actually be able to *stop* them getting stabbed unless the MP is going to be behind plexiglass and so might as well not bother. Bear in mind that most MPs do actually see surgeries as an extremely important part of their job - even the lovely ones will generally spend a fair amount of time (and have one or two staff devoted to) dealing with individual cases.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:26
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Killer is apparently 25 years old, which is surprisingly young as I automatically assumed it would be some red faced boomer.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:26
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hosed around and found out, etched on my headstone
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Oct 15, 2021 16:27
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Looke posted:loving hate the discourse around poo poo like this with statements saying how kind and generous X was, despite them voting to royal shaft the poor and throw asylum seekers back out to sea Against welfare for the disabled, against equality and gay marriage, pro landlord, but yeah, prepare yourself for all the articles about what a wonderful man he was. E: ThomasPaine posted:I kind of always assumed the PM and most ministers would employ people to do their surgeries. Much though I hate Bojo et al, I do think it's a bit ridiculous that the head of government is expected to spent time listening to indignant pensioners in a village hall in Stoke or whatever, rather than, you know, doing important national-level stuff. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Oct 15, 2021 |
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Oct 15, 2021 16:30
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ThomasPaine posted:Yeah, it's quite frustrating that even usually on-point people are reverting to this kind of 'terrible tragedy, murdered for just doing his job, heartbreaking, so sad, couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke' bullshit. Why should I pretend to give a flying gently caress that some Tory nonce got killed? Elected officials getting murdered, regardless of their politics, is never a *great* sign for a country. You can not care about the man himself (although no man is an island, etc) but the wider meaning and effect of his death definitely *are* important and something you should care about. And yes, the PM and most ministers do generally have staff to deal with their surgeries although apparently Major still did one a month and would occasionally speak to constituents over the phone for particularly big cases.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:31
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keep punching joe posted:Killer is apparently 25 years old, which is surprisingly young as I automatically assumed it would be some red faced boomer. I'm trying to think of a polite way of putting this and I'll settle for just saying there's basically no way the killer was from the traditional right wing.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:34
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Bobby Deluxe posted:https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10009/david_amess/southend_west/votes https://twitter.com/dawnbutlerbrent/status/1449014439332745235?s=21
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Oct 15, 2021 16:35
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I suppose it's bad that when this all kicked off I wasn't surprised at all. If anything one of my first thoughts was "I'm surprised it's taken this long". poo poo is getting so bad in this country, and it's not going to be getting better any time soon (for anyone other than the wealthy and powerful, of course). Things are only going to get spicier as things deteriorate further. Jo Cox was genuinely shocking and upsetting, in comparison. What a difference five years makes.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:36
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Honestly I suppose actual sitting MPs do probably need to go through the motions of paying their respects even if they hated the person.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:39
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https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10009/david_amess/southend_west/votes Thoughts and prayers xx
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Oct 15, 2021 16:40
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ThomasPaine posted:Honestly I suppose actual sitting MPs do probably need to go through the motions of paying their respects even if they hated the person. True, but just remove the first 2 sentences and it's fine, no need to praise the dead homophobe.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:41
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Very sad news, thoughts out to their family during this difficult time No need to recall the time they helped a blind cat cross the road whilst on their way to vote on benefit cuts
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Oct 15, 2021 16:42
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Barry Foster posted:I suppose it's bad that when this all kicked off I wasn't surprised at all. If anything one of my first thoughts was "I'm surprised it's taken this long".
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Oct 15, 2021 16:44
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I was genuinely surprised Corbyn didn't get merced when things were at their worst. Someone tried.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:45
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Spangly A posted:https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10009/david_amess/southend_west/votes lol what an absolute piece of poo poo Bobby Deluxe posted:I was genuinely surprised Corbyn didn't get merced when things were at their worst. Yeah same E Oh yeah they did as well, I forgot about that
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Oct 15, 2021 16:45
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I've heard that Boris almost never does surgeries and gets various deputies and assistants to do it for him. The true evil inner circle never does these things, you think IDS or Mogg actually sits down with oiks and listens to them? gently caress, Boris is probably right now bitching that this has spoiled his holiday.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:45
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Spangly A posted:https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10009/david_amess/southend_west/votes Generally voted for investigations into the Iraq war Consistently voted for the Iraq war lol
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Oct 15, 2021 16:47
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Barry Foster posted:lol what an absolute piece of poo poo Yeah and it wasn't just the thing with him getting egged either, somebody actually drove a van into someone and killed them, with the original aim of taking out Corbyn.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:49
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That's kinda crazy that the UK is like that. I don't think you would ever see a senator in the US without some form of security in a public forum.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:49
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Ginette Reno posted:That's kinda crazy that the UK is like that. I don't think you would ever see a senator in the US without some form of security in a public forum. There are very few guns in the UK. WhatEvil posted:Yeah and it wasn't just the thing with him getting egged either, somebody actually drove a van into someone and killed them, with the original aim of taking out Corbyn. The fact that I, idiot politics junkie and Corbynista, managed to forget it shows just how effectively it was memory-holed. Well, memory-holed implies it was noticed in the first place - IIRC it barely made headlines
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Oct 15, 2021 16:50
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Ginette Reno posted:That's kinda crazy that the UK is like that. I don't think you would ever see a senator in the US without some form of security in a public forum. It's fine, there's only been 1 MP murdered in the last decade. Well, 2 now I guess.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:51
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There would have been some security back in the 80s/90s when the IRA were bombing the poo poo out of whoever they could, ie Brighton Bombing. But with anything, if they can cut costs they will, so must have been reduced.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:52
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everyone is going to get in a massive froth over this and it'll turn out to be a totally inscrutable acute mental health crisis with the only possible ideological bent being perhaps cutting social services to the bone was a bad idea
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Oct 15, 2021 16:54
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