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I never understood people who wanted books to be exactly like movies or shows. It's a visual medium it needs to be adapted just be happy someone did the thing.
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Oct 15, 2021 05:20
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apatheticman posted:I never understood people who wanted books to be exactly like movies or shows. Also it's just a waste of time tbh. The original already exists, the only reason to adapt it identically is for accessibility options.
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Oct 15, 2021 05:23
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Jerusalem posted:This episode had no Lee Pace so I'm mad I didn't have a huge problem with this, honestly. Both the Foundation crew and the Anacreons seem pretty poo poo as far as organization and security and whatnot. The Foundation are a bunch of naive cloistered idiots, obviously, and even Hardin is more of a theoretical badass than an actual one -- she's smart and takes things seriously, but she's on the same cloistered little planet where she doesn't get much experience in anything besides killing space-varmints and keeping children away from the magic vault. And the Anacreons seem more like a terrorist group than a proper military force, really. It doesn't surprise me that Hardin didn't immediately tell them about the cannon because she's not a perfect tactical robot and just didn't really consider that they could mess with her communications, and it doesn't surprise me that, especially once their leader was gone, the Anacreons didn't really have a plan for "what happens if someone sees our cannon?" (also there were probably only a couple people on Terminus that would even recognize that they were making it stealthy)
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Oct 15, 2021 05:24
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Everything being flying by seats of pants and happening through dumb luck and fuckups is the most realistic part of the show so far.
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Oct 15, 2021 05:59
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apatheticman posted:I never understood people who wanted books to be exactly like movies or shows. Yeah, I figured this wasn't going to be like the books during the 1st episode (actually the trailer pretty much convinced me of that tbh) and I'm absolutely fine with that. I mean they're going to hit the same big, overarching plot points, but how they move from point to point is going to be different. And so far, I'm along for the ride and enjoying it.
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Oct 15, 2021 07:48
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Beefeater1980 posted:Everything being flying by seats of pants and happening through dumb luck and fuckups is the most realistic part of the show so far. The Imperial warship flying in so low whilst being that vulnerable to a man portable ground based gun struck me as insane though especially given that they did know there were three armed ships on the surface, surely those corvettes had weapons at least as dangerous? Though I guess there was mention of that gun being too close for anti missiles so maybe the corvettes were no threat due to being too far away.
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Oct 15, 2021 10:05
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Whoever is directing the fight sequences needs to be fired and replaced immediately. That shaky cam almost made me vomit it was so bad and it felt like there were more cuts in 10 seconds of fisticuffs than Liam Neeson jumping over a fence. I will always complain about poorly directed fight sequences and this is no exception. Otherwise... eh. Neat stuff in the episode but boy could the actual content have been condensed down to allow for a couple more scenes.
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Oct 15, 2021 10:10
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DaveKap posted:Whoever is directing the fight sequences needs to be fired and replaced immediately. That shaky cam almost made me vomit it was so bad and it felt like there were more cuts in 10 seconds of fisticuffs than Liam Neeson jumping over a fence. I will always complain about poorly directed fight sequences and this is no exception. Not even the shaky cam, the one guy running around punching rifle armed soldiers in the face and knocking them out, repeatedly, was ridiculous. They were wearing helmets! They had guns! But no, bare handed face punches, he punched out more of them than he shot with his literal laser gun and they seemed very keen to run full tilt into his fist.
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Oct 15, 2021 10:25
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Patrat posted:They were wearing helmets! This was the best part. If a helmet can't protect you from a punch, what can it protect you from? I guess that's why the named characters never wear them; they're too smart.
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Oct 15, 2021 11:11
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DaveKap posted:Whoever is directing the fight sequences needs to be fired and replaced immediately. That shaky cam almost made me vomit it was so bad and it felt like there were more cuts in 10 seconds of fisticuffs than Liam Neeson jumping over a fence. I will always complain about poorly directed fight sequences and this is no exception. I also got unironically nauseous from the awful shaky cam. Probably one of the worst big-budget fight scenes I've ever seen.
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Oct 15, 2021 13:29
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Patrat posted:Not even the shaky cam, the one guy running around punching rifle armed soldiers in the face and knocking them out, repeatedly, was ridiculous. They were wearing helmets! They had guns! But no, bare handed face punches, he punched out more of them than he shot with his literal laser gun and they seemed very keen to run full tilt into his fist. look at this guy so sure of himself and he doesn't even know people from thespia have overdeveloped biceps because of the increased gravity and can punch through a brick wall if they want
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Oct 15, 2021 14:35
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Not really sure what's supposed to be going on with (This episode talk) Hari on the ship. While it did seem EXTREMELY suspicious that he had a special casket designed by himself, I don't see how he could evade the colony ship's doctors to appear dead, get placed in a cryo-sleep pod disguised as a casket, end up at the same place as Gaal, 34 years later, and then be walking around the ship in some sort of cloaking field all the while suffering from an untreated sucking chest wound for hours while he bleeds out liters of blood.
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Oct 15, 2021 15:56
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Nitrousoxide posted:Not really sure what's supposed to be going on with (This episode talk) Hari on the ship. While it did seem EXTREMELY suspicious that he had a special casket designed by himself, I don't see how he could evade the colony ship's doctors to appear dead, get placed in a cryo-sleep pod disguised as a casket, end up at the same place as Gaal, 34 years later, and then be walking around the ship in some sort of cloaking field all the while suffering from an untreated sucking chest wound for hours while he bleeds out liters of blood. I am guessing that he is some kind of AI, the blood disappeared like a hologram, so maybe the AI is processing his bodydeath or something? I also realized that Gaal's whole plotline this week is basically a store-brand version of the absolutely incredible episode of The Expanse where Naomi is trapped on a derelict ship by herself...
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Oct 15, 2021 16:07
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:I am guessing that he is some kind of AI, the blood disappeared like a hologram, so maybe the AI is processing his bodydeath or something? Episode talk: If Hari was an AI, than unless the Three Laws don't apply to Foundation, I don't see how Gaal's commands to show her locations or redirect the ship could be ignored. You'd have to have a really expansive view of the First Law that doing so would somehow harm her to avoid her commands. While I know Asimov certainly didn't pretend like the 3 Laws are an actual solution to AI rebellion (at least a half dozen of his stories deal with how they utterly fail to prevent misaligned desires by the AI), this case doesn't seem like one of those instances where the 3 Laws going awry would apply.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:50
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Nitrousoxide posted:Not really sure what's supposed to be going on with (This episode talk) Hari on the ship. While it did seem EXTREMELY suspicious that he had a special casket designed by himself, I don't see how he could evade the colony ship's doctors to appear dead, get placed in a cryo-sleep pod disguised as a casket, end up at the same place as Gaal, 34 years later, and then be walking around the ship in some sort of cloaking field all the while suffering from an untreated sucking chest wound for hours while he bleeds out liters of blood. Speculation Hari is in the coffin, it's keeping him in a low state of consciousness which is translated and projected via hologram. He didn't account for the brain trauma of being stabbed so he's constantly reliving "dying".
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Oct 15, 2021 16:50
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Wafflecopper posted:This was the best part. If a helmet can't protect you from a punch, what can it protect you from? I guess that's why the named characters never wear them; they're too smart. When I was a dumb middle school teenager I had the galaxy brain idea of putting on a friends helmet and asking him to punch me. I can attest that helmets do not, in fact, protect you much from punches.
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Oct 15, 2021 16:59
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Was laughing how the episode had the actual Qanon line "Trust in the plan"
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Oct 15, 2021 17:02
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Nitrousoxide posted:Episode talk: If Hari was an AI, than unless the Three Laws don't apply to Foundation, I don't see how Gaal's commands to show her locations or redirect the ship could be ignored. You'd have to have a really expansive view of the First Law that doing so would somehow harm her to avoid her commands. While I know Asimov certainly didn't pretend like the 3 Laws are an actual solution to AI rebellion (at least a half dozen of his stories deal with how they utterly fail to prevent misaligned desires by the AI), this case doesn't seem like one of those instances where the 3 Laws going awry would apply. This was covered in one of the Asimov books I read as a kid, I, Robot maybe? The Second Law has levels of authority -- there was a story about a robot who's primary owner said "get lost", and so the robot disappeared among a group of other robots and didn't feel the need to comply with the investigators trying to tell him to get un-lost. If the AI or robot's owner tells them to take Gaal to the dark star and not to give her access to such-and-such information, then the robot doesn't have to comply with Gaal's commands because they conflict with the commands from the owner, and the owner's authority supercedes Gaal's.
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Oct 15, 2021 17:21
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I also think whatever program is running the ship and whatever we saw at the end are different, and not related, things so there is no conflict there. Even if ships in this universe follow the three laws, the ship knowing the destination is physically safe for her would be enough to keep her locked out?
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Oct 15, 2021 17:25
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Also really excited for the upcoming week because there will be so many book-stans who will absolutely hate this episode and all of its content... I love the books and I loved this episode. They are taking everything off the rails and its just fantastic. Freeze-drying Gaal Dornick so she can have a cool water world back story and be part of the Foundation later is great TV. I'm interested where they are taking all of this. If the next episode features Heliconian twisting I might just die from glee
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Oct 15, 2021 17:51
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Patrat posted:The Imperial warship flying in so low whilst being that vulnerable to a man portable ground based gun struck me as insane though especially given that they did know there were three armed ships on the surface, surely those corvettes had weapons at least as dangerous? Though I guess there was mention of that gun being too close for anti missiles so maybe the corvettes were no threat due to being too far away. Sounds like the tactics of someone from a 15,000 year old military who isn't used to having their imperial authority questioned.
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Oct 15, 2021 17:57
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Patrat posted:The Imperial warship flying in so low whilst being that vulnerable to a man portable ground based gun struck me as insane though especially given that they did know there were three armed ships on the surface, surely those corvettes had weapons at least as dangerous? Though I guess there was mention of that gun being too close for anti missiles so maybe the corvettes were no threat due to being too far away. They were landing....
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Oct 15, 2021 18:08
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The first 20 minutes of this episode should have been the first 20 minutes of the series, back when I was confused about Gaal's backstory and it felt like an infodump and I actually would've appreciated the information. The other parts of this episode felt like they were the best since the first episode. The "where am I?" part of Gaal's story was a little slow, but I liked where it ended up.Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Yeah, not saying something when given the chance makes zero sense when she had just said "it's not us they're hiding it from". WELL, THEN WHO, SALVOR??? Yeah, when watching movies I feel like I run into these "Just say it! SAY IT!" moments a lot. galenanorth fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Oct 15, 2021 |
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Oct 15, 2021 19:29
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Nitrousoxide posted:Not really sure what's supposed to be going on with (This episode talk) Hari on the ship. While it did seem EXTREMELY suspicious that he had a special casket designed by himself, I don't see how he could evade the colony ship's doctors to appear dead, get placed in a cryo-sleep pod disguised as a casket, end up at the same place as Gaal, 34 years later, and then be walking around the ship in some sort of cloaking field all the while suffering from an untreated sucking chest wound for hours while he bleeds out liters of blood. It's a fast grown clone from the DNA on the knife that was in Gaal's pod. At the end of episode 2 when Raych tossed the still bloody knife into Gaal's escape pod, I was already pretty certain we were going to get a clone. Especially since they took pains to show that not only do clones exist, but it's likely an extremely mature science given the clones we've seen. No idea what the "special casket" was all about unless it was to capture brain state before degradation due to decomp and transmit it to other ship for use in the clone.
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Oct 15, 2021 19:31
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I thought this was a good episode, it was nice not spending half the time dealing with Empire politics.
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Oct 15, 2021 19:42
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Final scene speculation: were you all like doing something else during this scene? All the blood puddles disappeared. Hari was phasing in and out of reality. It was 100% a hologram recording of some kind. Why that is being shown who knows but Hari isn't secretly on the ship and it wasn't a clone. There probably is something up with his coffin though and we could get a clone in the future. The thing the dude took from behind Hari's ear could have been some sort of brain scan or download for the clone. It's pretty obvious to me that she was sent to start the second foundation. It has to be someone who understands and can do psychohistory and she is the only other person we have seen. For whatever reason the ship expected her boyfriend to be there, but this was obviously all planned in advance since the ship came for her. So if it is not the plan for her to setup the 2nd foundation it is the 2nd foundation that was setup off screen coming to get her.
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Oct 15, 2021 19:55
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Cripes you're right. For some reason I thought Gaal had physically interacted with (what is now obviously) the hologram. So, never mind.
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Oct 15, 2021 20:04
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Book reader checking in, fantastic episode. It's REALLY going off the book-rails and I'm into it.
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Oct 15, 2021 20:39
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Woof, they really need to stop trying to be an action show because every scene was loving DIRE
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Oct 15, 2021 21:30
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I thought it was interesting that Hari's casket had a similar aesthetic to the artifact in Terminus. I wonder if it'll literally be some sort of approximation of his consciousness in it.
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Oct 15, 2021 21:44
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Victis posted:Woof, they really need to stop trying to be an action show because every scene was loving DIRE Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent director
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Oct 15, 2021 21:44
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Man, that Imperial ship went out like a bitch. I guess that can be written away as a symptom of overall decline. My theory for Gaal Dornick is that (book spoiler) they've merged that character with Wanda Seldon and she will be the nucleus of the Second Foundation. The "young Salvor Hardin" stuff is interesting. They dropped the "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" line a few episodes back, and her seeing the Anacreonieans kick rear end all over Terminus is a more compelling outcome than her leading a resistance to succesfully beat them back or something. Also, regarding all the vault spoilers that were posted earlier, David Goyer mentioned on the official Foundation podcast that what the vault is will surprise even book-readers. Chalk me up as a fan of the books that's been loving this series so far. Thought the Gaal backstory dragged a bit, though. Also (Foundation and Earth spoilers), anyone else think that Gaal's homeworld is very similar to the ocean planet Trevize et al visit? Wonder if that's random or if that's actually headed somewhere.
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Oct 15, 2021 21:46
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Everything happens in the space hike town is extremely chiche and boring as loving. Girl running in an Apple spaceship is also boring but I like the made up over world stuff in the beginning. I thought that was a holographic projection of last minute of Hari's life? but it could be fast cloning technology from Starman
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Oct 15, 2021 21:47
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Now that you mention it, it is weird how the cradle of humanity, Earth, hasn't been mentioned even once as far as I can remember.
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Oct 15, 2021 21:48
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Soon we will have book readers fighting amongst themselves for spoiling other book series Asimov wrote because they only read the Foundation ones. I like this show. I wish we could just watch the whole thing instead of waiting a week because it's written like an old 6hr TV miniseries 
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Oct 15, 2021 22:00
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apatheticman posted:I never understood people who wanted books to be exactly like movies or shows. I can help you with this. There is room between "I want the show to be a perfect recreation of the book, but in visual form" and "Literally any and all changes are fine I don't care as long as I like the show"
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Oct 15, 2021 22:01
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Nitrousoxide posted:Now that you mention it, it is weird how the cradle of humanity, Earth, hasn't been mentioned even once as far as I can remember. Spoiler from the first story of the first book: In this era humanity's planet of origin is lost knowledge, the sort of thing that idle academics like to debate at parties.
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Oct 15, 2021 22:16
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Killer robot posted:Spoiler from the first story of the first book: In this era humanity's planet of origin is lost knowledge, the sort of thing that idle academics like to debate at parties. It's the Owigin Question surely. 
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Oct 15, 2021 22:36
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This show is still just so pretty. That imperial ship jumping in looked incredible. But I feel like the story is so unbelievably disconnected from anything that I don't have anything to look forward to. I mean I have read the books, but a long time ago - and I still feel like I don't really understand what the gently caress is happening and why. A was said earlier Gaal's backstory felt pointless. We kinda know it and I don't like the idea that a person is just "naturally great" at maths when they're a kid on a planet where maths is literally illegal. Culture and society being ignored for individual stuff feels super off to me. Also I know it's dumb but loving hell the accents argh. Two super british people with a kid that has a zimbabwean accent is dumb! Give everyone the same accent or at least have a TRY. That goes double for Terminus.
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Oct 15, 2021 22:55
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mr. unhsib posted:My theory for Gaal Dornick is that (book spoiler) they've merged that character with Wanda Seldon and she will be the nucleus of the Second Foundation. In the books the Second Foundation is set up as the "opposite" of the First Foundation, in the sense that their power and influence are entirely based on telepathy and mind-manipulation, rather than physical science. And we have seen absolutely nothing like that in the show so far. Granted, the show has already gone off the book-rails, so I guess anything is possible.
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Oct 15, 2021 23:08
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