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First episode 9/24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4QYV5GTz7c Based on the classic series by Isaac Asimov, Foundation follows the titular institution aka The Encyclopedia Galactica charged with collecting and preserving knowledge before and during the fall of the galaxy spanning Empire. The TV series looks like it is mainly adapting the later prequel books which dealt with the actual start of the Foundation and Hari Seldon's conflicts with the Emperor. Starring Jared Harris as "Hari Seldon", the creator of Psychohistory and Lee Pace as "Brother Day" part of a triumvirate of Emperors.
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Sep 22, 2021 21:29
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I was tempted to start a post on this *obscure* work of fiction, thanks OP! As a fan of the book and good adaptations in general, I'm cautiously optimistic about this show. The cast is stacked, the showrunners are experienced and apple+ has been on fire lately with it's new offerings. While the purist in me wishes for a straight adaptation, the realist knows that the medium forces some compromises in terms of structure and pacing. Simply put, the book doesn't allow for many developed character arcs and modern TV kind of depends on them. There are loads of new characters in the short trailer we've seen, and it will be interesting to see how they develop as the story rushes through centuries at a breakneck speed. Whatever gets Lee Pace's shirt off.
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Sep 23, 2021 14:07
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The trailer looks pretty dumb, but you can't really tell anything from a trailer. I reread the series a few years ago, and I enjoyed it well enough (although I remember it getting pretty weird towards the end and I'm not sure if I ever read the prequels) but it never struck me as the sort of thing that would make for good TV. I'm guessing they're going to change a lot (or just make a bunch of stuff up) because the books don't really provide a huge amount to work with.
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Sep 23, 2021 14:26
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The books have an existing excuse that would allow them to keep Jared Harris around so they could just make it into kind of an anthology show.
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Sep 23, 2021 22:36
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Trailer looks dope. Planing thirds for the Epicness!  Jared Harris is the GOAT. I hope they find a way to get Tobias Menzies in this poo poo.  Tomorrow is bonus day, so time to waste a few bucks on two months of Apple+ or whatever this nonsense is called. I'll bang out For All Mankind, while I'm at it! And that Tom Hanks submarine movie! 
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Sep 23, 2021 23:37
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I've never read Foundation but I read a bunch of Asimov stuff when I was a kid. Should I read the books if I'm interested in the show? I remember his stuff being really dry, but then I was like 12.
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Sep 23, 2021 23:49
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Phenotype posted:I've never read Foundation but I read a bunch of Asimov stuff when I was a kid. Should I read the books if I'm interested in the show? I remember his stuff being really dry, but then I was like 12. It's pretty dry, and has some anachronisms, like constantly referring to "atomics" as the end-point of technology. The first book isn't even 300 pages though? You could probably bang it out in a day or two if you have some free time!
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Sep 23, 2021 23:56
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Phenotype posted:I've never read Foundation but I read a bunch of Asimov stuff when I was a kid. Should I read the books if I'm interested in the show? I remember his stuff being really dry, but then I was like 12. Oh, Asimov's works are dry all right. Most of his stories consist of reasoned, calm discussions between two people who sometimes get upset but rarely to the point of impoliteness. And I say this as a fan; Asimov was himself aware of his weaknesses as an author and the difficulties that would come with adapting his works to a more visual, dynamic medium. The showrunners basically have to take some liberties to make things interesting, and I wouldn't worry about book accuracy so long as they maintain the core elements of themes and characterization.
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Sep 24, 2021 00:01
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I love Foundation and can't wait for this show. What time does it drop tomorrow? Book spoiler I doubt it will make it in, but the entire plot with The Mule was my favorite and I really hope they find a way to get there
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Sep 24, 2021 00:07
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CornHolio posted:I love Foundation and can't wait for this show. What time does it drop tomorrow? They want the series to run 80 episodes, so maybe in Season 3 or 4? 
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Sep 24, 2021 00:12
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Question for those who've read all the books: judging from the trailers, do they seem to be starting with the prequels? I only read the first three, and I know the female lead in the trailers is supposed to be Gaal Dornick, that guy in the first chapter of the first book who's never mentioned again after the timeskip (at least in the first 3 books). Or is it original content expanding on that period in the timeline?
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Sep 24, 2021 02:11
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El Jeffe posted:Question for those who've read all the books: judging from the trailers, do they seem to be starting with the prequels? I only read the first three, and I know the female lead in the trailers is supposed to be Gaal Dornick, that guy in the first chapter of the first book who's never mentioned again after the timeskip (at least in the first 3 books). The first prequel covers Hari's time on the planet-city when he proposes the idea of psychohistory as something he could work on in the future, long before he ever published anything and gained notoriety. The second prequel is about him developing the idea of the Foundation and the discovery he made that led him to form the Second Foundation. Based on the dialog and Seldon's apparent age, I'm guessing the series starts where the first Foundation novel starts and maybe borrows some setting elements from the prequel novels without going into the plot. Aside from that, I figure the show is expanding on each sub-story's time period to bulk out the season. It might use each sub-story as the basis for a season or it might concentrate several into one character's lifetime, but either way I doubt this season will reach the second half of Foundation and Empire.
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Sep 24, 2021 02:24
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Apparently the first episode is up now. Personally I ain't got time to watch it tonight.
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Sep 24, 2021 03:22
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:
I'd be very surprised if they even got to the end of the first book considering that Seldon seems to be the main character of probably this whole season, which is why I'm thinking season 1 might be pretty much entirely in the timeskip period between the events of book 1 chapter 1 and Seldon's death. So maybe season 2 will actually be about the events of book 1 post-Seldon, i.e. the entire book after the first chapter, and the show will be a sort of anthology-by-season. Or they just go WAY off book and don't really do the big timeskips, which would be awful.
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Sep 24, 2021 03:29
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El Jeffe posted:I'd be very surprised if they even got to the end of the first book considering that Seldon seems to be the main character of probably this whole season, which is why I'm thinking season 1 might be pretty much entirely in the timeskip period between the events of book 1 chapter 1 and Seldon's death. So maybe season 2 will actually be about the events of book 1 post-Seldon, i.e. the entire book after the first chapter, and the show will be a sort of anthology-by-season. I'm not so sure. Seldon does a lot of talking during the trailer but not much doing. Which matches his role in the books.
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Sep 24, 2021 03:56
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I am excited as gently caress about this show because I loved these books when I was a kid. Book Spoilers I loved how the other Asimov books and they all started tying together in some way. That would be crazy if this show took off and we got a Elijah Bailey detective show for one of the big twists later on.
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Sep 24, 2021 04:32
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Imo a very strong start, about as good as you could possibly hope for a Foundation TV show and I think they did a good job in respecting the source material while obviously having to adjust a lot of things (and already setting up future plot points). So far I also liked the changes / additions, ie the triple clone emperor setup for example is a great original idea and gives that side of the story much required depth and is also a pretty clever way to explore a character which is very appreciated with someone like Lee Pace in the role. I'd also say the first two episode squish any fears that this is going to be just some action-adventure story, it definitely still has enough of dialogue heaviness of the books. The focus so far is certainly on the characters and the overarching plot/world building and not action sequences. It should also be mentioned that the visuals so far have been great, it's really top tier hollywood movie stuff and you can see where that money was spent.
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Sep 24, 2021 11:52
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I'm hoping Jared Harris does his Belter accent from the Expanse randomly in one the episodes.
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Sep 24, 2021 13:11
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etalian posted:I'm hoping Jared Harris does his Belter accent from the Expanse randomly in one the episodes. HAR BUNES WER CHOLK Can't wait to crack the first episode tonight. Since the Expanse shat the bed there's been a Boötes sized void for mature TV science fiction. My head-cannon always cast Seldon as an Arthur C Clarke figure, but Jarred Harris is perfect casting. Absolutely hope we get to the point in the book this season where Seldon is long dead but appears in scheduled holograms. His foundation is facing peril and he appears one last time. People hope he delivers some prophecy or solution, instead he pops in and says basically, "You're on your own, fuckers!".
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Sep 24, 2021 13:44
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Lets see, so the first three epp's are up. Time to dip in and see if Goyer has screwed the pooch or not. And the first epp opens with Kids sneeking out to see if they can get near the Seldon Vault and daring each other to do so. I can see where this might happen. So far, not so bad, and yeah, here it is, the dare is for a feel of one of their tits, gently caress me Goyer you just can't help it can you.
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Sep 24, 2021 16:22
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I can only find the first two. but i'm a dummie so. also, i liked it yo. its getting mixed reviews and gizmodo didn't like it but avclub did, B+, so egh. But yeah, give me that black and gold coloured tv show which is trying to be both westworld and game of thrones. can't get over the main characters accent though. shes south african but all i here is a kiwi accent. its dope but, being from/in nz, it really throws me off a bit like, am i watching tribes// anyway, so far so fun. i read so much asimov as a kid that there is a certain glee in seeing golden age american sci fi suddenly appear on tv again.
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Sep 24, 2021 16:43
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Lampsacus posted:I can only find the first two. but i'm a dummie so. It airs weekly, they just dropped 2 episodes because it's the first week.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:15
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I liked it, episode 1 was great, two was not as I expected but I can see the route they'll go down, given the books don't really give them too much room to make a multi-series long tv show out of the ideas, at least the core concept is there in these first two episodes. Of course they need an expanded cast and political setting to turn this into a game of thrones type of factional show with some twists. I had been excited by this project since Johnathan Nolan bought the rights for it but then decided to make Westworld with HBO first, I thought we weren't going to get Foundation for a lot longer, so I'm happy with this result. Plus Lee Pace owns and this role is perfect for him.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:45
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Yeah, there's plenty of room to bulk out in each story's era and plenty of details we never really see, but the Foundation universe is good at implying hidden depths that an adaptation can bulk out. The main thing I would want the show to keep is the resolution to each story's conflict, which I would have to say is the single most memorable element of the whole extended series.
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Sep 24, 2021 18:09
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Really enjoyed episode 1. It captured the spirit of the story, and most of the changes were for the better (the much needed gender swapping, the cloned Emperor, etc). Episode 2 went off the rails a bit. I suppose Seldon dying before reaching Terminus is in keeping with the original story, but uh, wow. Some really weird offhand references to Spacers and the Robot Wars though, wonder what that's foreshadowing. I've heard season one adapts the first 2/3rds or so of Foundation, stopping before Hober Mallow.
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Sep 24, 2021 20:39
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Only seen the 1st episode so far but I was very impressed by how it looked and the performances of some of the key cast members - Jared Harris of course, but Lee Pace is great as Brother Day (and I love the 3-in-1 Emperor concept), and I always forget how good Reece Shearsmith is at playing grubby little scheming assholes. I haven't read the books so no idea where any of this is going to go or develop, but it's cool seeing something that looks as good and high budget as this as a television series with time to breath rather than an ultra condensed movie.
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Sep 24, 2021 23:05
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mr. unhsib posted:
Well in the books it is specifically mentioned that Hari prevented the foundation from having any psychologists or psychohistorians at all on Terminus. The whole point of the plan is that the people can't know the plan or it won't work. So I think what happened is Hari had the guy kill him and jettison the girl. Just before that he even said he had never expected that he would be on the ship. I think he completed his plan and realized that it would only work if nobody involved knew the math and so they both had to go. This was why the dude was so mad at him at dinner because Hari had told him. It's also why he asked the girl if she still believed in the math in the sim. He wanted to be sure Hari was right before he did something so extreme at Hari's direction.
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Sep 25, 2021 00:37
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Went into this completely blind, but I'm glad I've found a new show to look forward to every week. It is, as was mentioned earlier, also crazy good looking. I mean really spectacular visuals.
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Sep 25, 2021 03:56
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Is that little finger?
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Sep 25, 2021 04:49
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It's been probably 15-20 years since I read the books, so my recollection of the specifics is real fuzzy, but I really enjoyed the first two episodes. The second episode's end was a bummer because I really enjoy Jared Harris, but hopefully we'll see more of him in flashbacks or whatever. Loving the thing they did with the emperor.
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Sep 25, 2021 06:21
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That was a good two episodes. Interesting way to adapt a series of short stories published in a magazine. Good use of the budget in making things look so nice. I listen to the radio drama yearly cause I find it so enjoyable so I was curious how they'd do the tv series. Brigadier Sockface posted:Is that little finger? I wonder if they tried and couldn't get him so they just went for someone close. D-Pad posted:Well in the books it is specifically mentioned that Hari prevented the foundation from having any psychologists or psychohistorians at all on Terminus. The whole point of the plan is that the people can't know the plan or it won't work. So I think what happened is Hari had the guy kill him and jettison the girl. Just before that he even said he had never expected that he would be on the ship. I think he completed his plan and realized that it would only work if nobody involved knew the math and so they both had to go. This was why the dude was so mad at him at dinner because Hari had told him. It's also why he asked the girl if she still believed in the math in the sim. He wanted to be sure Hari was right before he did something so extreme at Hari's direction. That fits with the direction the prequels novels take so I'd believe it fine. duz fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Sep 25, 2021 |
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Sep 25, 2021 06:35
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Loezi posted:It's been probably 15-20 years since I read the books, so my recollection of the specifics is real fuzzy, but I really enjoyed the first two episodes. The second episode's end was a bummer because I really enjoy Jared Harris, but hopefully we'll see more of him in flashbacks or whatever. Loving the thing they did with the emperor. Oh, that shouldn't be a problem.
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Sep 25, 2021 13:52
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D-Pad posted:Well in the books it is specifically mentioned that Hari prevented the foundation from having any psychologists or psychohistorians at all on Terminus. The whole point of the plan is that the people can't know the plan or it won't work. So I think what happened is Hari had the guy kill him and jettison the girl. Just before that he even said he had never expected that he would be on the ship. I think he completed his plan and realized that it would only work if nobody involved knew the math and so they both had to go. This was why the dude was so mad at him at dinner because Hari had told him. It's also why he asked the girl if she still believed in the math in the sim. He wanted to be sure Hari was right before he did something so extreme at Hari's direction. This fits but it's a really weird choice since he could have just decided not to teach psychohistory, or at least keep back certain parts so they can't figure it out. Instead he opts for a brutal murder that is going to demoralize everyone and make them uncertain about their mission.
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Sep 25, 2021 17:59
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I liked the first two episodes. I don't understand the ending of the second episode at all, but I guess they'll get to it eventually.
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Sep 25, 2021 19:38
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Narmi posted:This fits but it's a really weird choice since he could have just decided not to teach psychohistory, or at least keep back certain parts so they can't figure it out. Instead he opts for a brutal murder that is going to demoralize everyone and make them uncertain about their mission. I think that's one thing that sort of let's the narrative do whatever it wants because you can always say this was the only way the plan would work! if you werent demoralized/trapped/etc you'd have found a different path, but now you're stuck on this one path.
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Sep 25, 2021 20:24
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Narmi posted:This fits but it's a really weird choice since he could have just decided not to teach psychohistory, or at least keep back certain parts so they can't figure it out. Instead he opts for a brutal murder that is going to demoralize everyone and make them uncertain about their mission. True but I think the idea is that him even being there is going to effect outcomes because he is looked at as a messiah/savior...which happens to fit with the whole self sacrifice thing. He thought he would be killed on Trantor before the expedition set out but since he wasn't he had to engineer his own killing.
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Sep 25, 2021 20:25
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Loezi posted:Loving the thing they did with the emperor. Is this from the books? It strikes me as a great way to keep hold of their headline actors if the story spans centuries.
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Sep 25, 2021 20:27
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I haven't seen the episodes since I don't have Apple+ (my plan is to wait until it's finished and then binge-watch the season), and so I don't know if the show disproves this, but I'm guessing Seldon faked his death to galvanize the First Foundation and also so he could continue building the Second Foundation in secret.
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Sep 25, 2021 20:37
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Narmi posted:This fits but it's a really weird choice since he could have just decided not to teach psychohistory, or at least keep back certain parts so they can't figure it out. Instead he opts for a brutal murder that is going to demoralize everyone and make them uncertain about their mission. The following contains a lot of spoilery speculation / book spoilers/material: Seldon didn't "teach" psychohistory to Gaal, she is simply a (math) prodigy and another important aspect that was only hinted at: She might have psychic powers (or "mentalics" as they are called in the books). There were two scenes so far in which she had premonitions about events and it also shouldn't be a suprise if she is pregnant (there were two times she had sexy time with Raych on screen and then there was the whole baby discussion with her friend, imo two big hints). That could lead to a child with mentalic powers which then either becomes the Mule or is the "good" counter part to the Mule, maybe even as part of the 2nd Foundation. Also remember that Seldon's thinking is based around large populations and the longterm, the "demoralizing" effect could be just a short term blip and you might even be able to turn his death into martyrdom. You just need to "frame" Gaal as agent of the Emperor who had the mission to kill Seldon (Raych throws the knife into Gaal's rescue pod, he can easily pin it on her). If Seldon (the writers) are smart then he could even make his own death part of his plan/prediction and have him say in one of his first appearances as hologram that he expected to be killed by the Emperor / his agents and this whole charade would even boost people's belief in him. Now you might ask why and I don't want to say I 100% have the right answer to that but three major reasons come to mind: 1) We covered that one already, ie removing all possible psychohistorians from the (first) Foundation. 2) Seldon needs Gaal for the 2nd Foundation in some capacity but can't just tell her that because it might either affect the overall plan or there is the risk Gaal might refuse if he just asks her. 3) It's about the mentalic powers / the possible child I speculated about and neither should be part of the (first) Foundation. It should be mentioned that in the books the character of Raych (who is also adopted by Hari Seldon just like in the show) has one child, Wanda Seldon, who possess mentalic powers and is one of those people who formed the Second Foundation. So my speculation is that instead of a random character (Manella Seldon is Raych's wife in the books who is a non-character) being Raych's future "wife"/mother of his child, it is going to be Gaal in that role. This is imo also the reason why they gave Gaal these premonitions, it would be a good way to foreshadow the genetic potential in regards to mentalics and maybe Seldon even planned for Raych and Gaal to have a child with such powers. The potential mentalics could be the flaw in Seldon's plan (mentalics like the Mule who could undermine everything) and/or Raych/Gaal and their potential mentalic child (who goes on to build the Second Foundation) are the countermeasure. A more tragic twist would be if Seldon predicts mentalics but wants to utilize them for the Second Foundation but the child (or one of the descendants) ends up becoming the Mule. His backstory in the books is so generic that I'm sure that they are going to do something more interesting with that because in the books even his real name and what he did in his early life is unknown. So that is some speculation, I'm of course not sure how much of that is really going to happen but I'm at least somewhat confident that some of these things are at least in the ballpark of what the writers have planned. LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Sep 25, 2021 |
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Sep 25, 2021 20:58
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LinkesAuge posted:The following contains a lot of spoilery speculation / book spoilers/material: I believe in Foundation's Edge it turns out Mule is a lost child of Gaia, the psychic planet.
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Sep 25, 2021 21:23
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