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Data Graham posted:There was a Galadriel in the elementary school class ahead of me. Making my only post in this thread to say that this is dope.
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Oct 2, 2021 19:25
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 17:36 |
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My son is also named Maura Labingi
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Oct 5, 2021 00:21
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 https://twitter.com/wetaworkshop/status/1446196127364116486?s=21
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Oct 7, 2021 21:27
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I like it a lot. Never been a fan of the film's orcs. Ratface isn't ideal, but I like that it's not just a generic "human but fuckugly"
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Oct 7, 2021 21:35
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I really like the film Orcs from a creative standpoint. They do a neat job differentiating Orcs based on region and affiliation. Hobbit Orcs not so much.
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Oct 7, 2021 21:47
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The best thing they did with the movie orcs was to come up with a poo poo ton of individual designs for close-ups. It would have been easy to cheap out and make them all look the same except for the handful of speaking parts, but they put in the work instead. Imo it adds a lot of character, even if the movie orcs, as scripted, tend to lack the book orcs’ awesome personalities. Kind of wish that rat orc had made the cut though
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Oct 7, 2021 23:23
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Hey it's that guy Bill Ferny hangs out with.
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Oct 7, 2021 23:49
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I'm pretty sure I was in high school with Rat Orc...?
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Oct 7, 2021 23:55
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skasion posted:The best thing they did with the movie orcs was to come up with a poo poo ton of individual designs for close-ups. It would have been easy to cheap out and make them all look the same except for the handful of speaking parts, but they put in the work instead. Imo it adds a lot of character, even if the movie orcs, as scripted, tend to lack the book orcs’ awesome personalities. It's amazing what 3-4 years of pre-production work can do
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Oct 8, 2021 02:26
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Yeah over lockdown we got a few cases of beer and put on the Hobbit movies to finally see them for the first time. The orc designs are terrible. They almost always have CGI faces that look crap. Sometimes an orc looks cool, and it is always when it is obviously a guy in a mask. Was this an actual aesthetic choice, or was this just somehow cheaper and easier? There is so much that looks really nice in these films and so much that looks horribly slapped together, oftentimes clashing in the same scene. Why are some of the Dwarves looking like Dwarves with big prosthetic noses and weird heads, while two of them just look like normal guys? I guess that one is obviously because they need some Hot Dudes and not a bunch of potato faces, but the orcs were really a missed opportunity. They have a mushy CGI orc as the main villain of the entire trilogy? They could have done so much with a great character actor covered in greasy prosthetics.
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Oct 10, 2021 17:56
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There are too many dwarves and they don’t say enough . From the point of view making a movie So they chose to make them all extremely visually distinctive
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Oct 10, 2021 18:01
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Another big problem with The Hobbit is that Guillermo del Toro did years of preproduction on it before he left, then Peter Jackson had essentially 3 months of preproduction before filming. They didn’t have a script, storyboards, or creature designs when filming began. Compared to Lord of the Rings, which had like 3 years+ of pre-production. The orcs probably would have looked amazing if del Toro had stayed on. Hell the entire trilogy would’ve looked much better and more distinctive if del Toro had stayed.
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Oct 10, 2021 18:40
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Flakey posted:Hey it's that guy Bill Ferny hangs out with. When that guy talks about how southerners are going to come and take the Breelander’s land and they (paraphrase) “deserve to live just like anyone else”, is he a bad guy trying to rile up trouble, or is Tolkien being really xenophobic and anti-migrant there? He’s easily the most problematic thing in The Lord of the Rings that I can remember. It does NOT help that he’s referred to as “the squint-eyed southerner”
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Oct 14, 2021 14:23
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Data Graham posted:This thing I saw on Quora was kinda amusing: huh, i don't think this is true at all. don't the elves at some point tell the numenoreans that there isn't anything special about aman and that the elves are immortal because they're elves and not because of the place they live in?
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Oct 14, 2021 14:37
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Yes. Frodo eventually dies too.
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Oct 14, 2021 14:39
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Ogmius815 posted:When that guy talks about how southerners are going to come and take the Breelander’s land and they (paraphrase) “deserve to live just like anyone else”, is he a bad guy trying to rile up trouble, or is Tolkien being really xenophobic and anti-migrant there? The southern migrants are sympathetically characterized as a group. They’re just strangers but benign ones, “looking for lands where they could find some peace.” And I mean, the ones who are present are welcome in the town’s public house, nobody is throwing them out in the street at present. It’s the squinty guy who takes this to the stage of veiled threat by implying that if the Breelanders don’t make room for the migrants then they’ll be displaced forcibly. No mention is made of what the other migrants present think of this guy, but it’s worth noting that he’s a fifth columnist and not a bonafide refugee. Imo it’s less an anti-migrant message and more “be wary of people who talk about migration in terms of nonconsensual relocation and replacement”
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Oct 14, 2021 14:46
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Ogmius815 posted:When that guy talks about how southerners are going to come and take the Breelander’s land and they (paraphrase) “deserve to live just like anyone else”, is he a bad guy trying to rile up trouble, or is Tolkien being really xenophobic and anti-migrant there? As with any questions like this, the answer is that Tolkien was decently progressive for a conservative English person of his time, but he still had a lot of racial issues that he was unaware of. The southerner is a bad guy trying to rile up trouble and Tolkien’s unstated xenophobia is also showing through. At the same time, I expect we’re also partly supposed to sympathize with him against the Breelanders. The North Kingdom was effectively post-apocalyptic by the time of LoTR. Bree was a collection of four tiny towns in the middle of a vast expanse of wilderness that could have, and indeed should have been repopulated. The Breelanders were being insular and xenophobic for rejecting migrants, and Gandalf later tells Butterbur that people will be moving up north near Bree and it will be a good thing. But Tolkien’s description of the southerner was indeed pretty disgusting and very revealing as to his own prejudices.
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Oct 14, 2021 14:49
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Are you guys talking about Bill Ferny?
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Oct 14, 2021 14:51
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quote:The Men and Dwarves were mostly talking of distant events and telling news of a kind that was becoming only too familiar. There was trouble away in the South, and it seemed that the Men who had come up the Greenway were on the move, looking for lands where they could find some peace. The Bree-folk were sympathetic, but plainly not very ready to take a large number of strangers into their little land. One of the travellers, a squint-eyed ill-favoured fellow, was foretelling that more and more people would be coming north in the near future. ‘If room isn’t found for them, they’ll find it for themselves. They’ve a right to live, same as other folk,’ he said loudly. The local inhabitants did not look pleased at the prospect. I get the impression that they're more worried about people moving into Bree itself and even wanting rooms in people's homes more than the idea of them founding new settlements in empty land in the same region.
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Oct 14, 2021 14:58
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Shibawanko posted:huh, i don't think this is true at all. don't the elves at some point tell the numenoreans that there isn't anything special about aman and that the elves are immortal because they're elves and not because of the place they live in? That doesn't seem necessarily inconsistent with the fb post though. It's basically saying that anyone who isn't immortal would burn out quickly on Aman, and that doesn't happen to elves because they're immortal. The elves might also not know about humans burning out their souls on Aman because there have never been humans there.
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Oct 14, 2021 15:07
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Eärendil was the first human to go to Valinor
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Oct 14, 2021 15:15
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Weirdly enough I have trouble reading that specific coding as racial (not denying that it is a racial coding - just noting my response). For some reason I always read "squint-eyed" there as a facial expression/attitude and not as a characteristic of the man's eye shape, evocative of perhaps an old, sun-burned farmer who is always looking side-eyed at everyone who gets to close to his corn. I.e. that the man is a southerner, and his particular expression is "squint-eyed."
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Oct 14, 2021 15:24
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The Men and Dwarves were mostly talking of distant events and telling news of a kind that was becoming only too familiar. There was trouble away in the South, and it seemed that the Men who had come up the Greenway were on the move, looking for lands where they could find some peace. The Bree-folk were sympathetic, but plainly not very ready to take a large number of strangers into their little land. One of the travellers, a squint-eyed ill-favoured fellow, was foretelling that more and more people would be coming north in the near future. ‘If room isn’t found for them, they’ll find it for themselves. They’ve a right to live, same as other folk,’ he said loudly. The local inhabitants did not look pleased at the prospect. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. He’s just saying the guy is rough looking
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Oct 14, 2021 15:30
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euphronius posted:Eärendil was the first human to go to Valinor I thought the Chad Tuor was the first man counted amongst elves, or does he not count because they accepted him into the Eldar.
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Oct 14, 2021 15:34
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CommonShore posted:Weirdly enough I have trouble reading that specific coding as racial (not denying that it is a racial coding - just noting my response). For some reason I always read "squint-eyed" there as a facial expression/attitude and not as a characteristic of the man's eye shape, evocative of perhaps an old, sun-burned farmer who is always looking side-eyed at everyone who gets to close to his corn. I.e. that the man is a southerner, and his particular expression is "squint-eyed." Phrases relating to squinting or squinty eyes have been slurs directed at Asian people for a long time, and it's extra worth noting that Tolkien often uses "squinty eyes" as a hint that a character has some Orc blood (in faqct, IIRC when Sam learns about rumors of half-Orcs being a thing, he immediately thinks of this very same Southerner as possibly being one), and in his Letters Tolkien explicitly likened his image of Orcs to the "least lovely (to European eyes) Mongol types."
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Oct 14, 2021 15:34
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For some reason I always assumed that he was a half-orc working for Saruman.  efb Eighties ZomCom fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Oct 14, 2021 |
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Oct 14, 2021 15:35
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Eighties ZomCom posted:For some reason I always assumed that he was a half-orc working for Saruman. That is correct, he is. The characterization of this guy as squint-eyed is supposed to implicate his goblin blood and also implies that the other southerners are not squint-eyed or ill-favored by comparison.
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Oct 14, 2021 15:37
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Christopher Tolkien had this to say about the topic:Christopher Tolkien posted:Just what my father meant to convey by the 'squint-eyed Southerner' at Bree I'm not sure. I don't think that he can possibly have meant that the man had 'slit-eyes' (goblin-like). He may have meant that he actually had a squint (optical disorder), but that seems unnecessarily particular. So the likeliest meaning, I think, is that the man didn't look straight, but obliquely, watchfully, sideways, suggesting craftiness and crookedness. It's not clear to me whether Chris is using "slit-eyes" here in a very unfortunate description of eyes with epicanthic folds or if he's implying that goblins had slitted pupils like, say, a cat--either way, I'm not sure I agree with his assessment that his father wasn't trying to connect the Southerner to Orcs, given that he explicitly does so elsewhere in the text.
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Oct 14, 2021 15:42
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GimpInBlack posted:Christopher Tolkien had this to say about the topic: Christopher was probably slightly more aware of how bad this looked, so it is likely he is trying to cast it in a more charitable light. I don't think he needs to have bothered. Tolkien had some biases that in the modern day aged very poorly, and his depiction of orcs was definitely one of them, but ultimately that's better acknowledged than left alone.
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Oct 15, 2021 00:19
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Staltran posted:That doesn't seem necessarily inconsistent with the fb post though. It's basically saying that anyone who isn't immortal would burn out quickly on Aman, and that doesn't happen to elves because they're immortal. The elves might also not know about humans burning out their souls on Aman because there have never been humans there. i always assumed that there was nothing about aman itself that would cause that, just that the sight of a place made for immortals would make mortals feel out of place or unsettled or insignificant (which is why i think the adaptations should avoid actually showing valinor, it should be left to the imagination). or maybe a mortal would lose all sense of time passing there, like in lorien, and so would feel like they age quickly in comparison to everything else around them. i think it was pretty explicit though that just being in valinor itself doesnt make mortals age faster or slower
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Oct 15, 2021 00:28
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especially because it makes no thematic sense. ar pharazon's project is based on a lack of faith and humility before god, that would be negated a bit if the elves were lying to the numenoreans all along and aman does have power over death in some way. it was also just another landmass before the valar moved there
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Oct 15, 2021 00:33
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Living in a peaceful, blessed place populated by benevolent spirits has got to do wonders for your health, though.
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Oct 15, 2021 00:34
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skasion posted:The best thing they did with the movie orcs was to come up with a poo poo ton of individual designs for close-ups. It would have been easy to cheap out and make them all look the same except for the handful of speaking parts, but they put in the work instead. Imo it adds a lot of character, even if the movie orcs, as scripted, tend to lack the book orcs’ awesome personalities. Yeah the book Orcs have some pretty awesome personalities.
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Oct 15, 2021 03:10
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Shibawanko posted:huh, i don't think this is true at all. don't the elves at some point tell the numenoreans that there isn't anything special about aman and that the elves are immortal because they're elves and not because of the place they live in? This is broadly correct. Physical matter does age slower in Aman. Huan, after all, was just a dog, and he lived for centuries. Souls, however, do not age more slowly in Aman. This is fine for Elves, whose souls do not age in a meaningful way, but and this causes problems for Mortals that show up there. In the recently-published Nature of Middle-earth, we learn that Frodo probably dies not too long after reaching Valinor.
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Oct 15, 2021 19:50
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Falathrim posted:This is broadly correct. Physical matter does age slower in Aman. Huan, after all, was just a dog, and he lived for centuries. Nature of Middle-earth? JRR and Chris are now both putting out more books while dead than GRRM is while alive?
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Oct 15, 2021 20:10
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Hey if we're talking about Valinor and such, I don't remember why Aman became the No Mortals Allowed Zone. Originally, Arda just had one big continent, right? And the Valar lived right in the middle on the island Almaren. Morgoth fucks up the world and the rest of the Valar go off to Valinor, then bring the Elves over. Why did they never want to bring the Men over? If Arda was never broken, and Men awoke under the Lamps, would the Valar have forbidden them from Almaren? Of course that leads to the question: if Men don't awaken until the rising of the Sun, could they even have done so without Morgoth breaking the Lamps and later killing the Trees?
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Oct 15, 2021 20:36
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Pham Nuwen posted:Hey if we're talking about Valinor and such, I don't remember why Aman became the No Mortals Allowed Zone. According to the Silmarillion, the Valar didn’t go send a messenger to the newly awakened men because they didn’t know where they were (seriously) and were afraid that even if they found them it would bring Melkor down on them (the men, not themselves). Since men are Iluvatar’s favorite maybe he preferred not to have the gods going around loving them up from the start like they did the elves. The specific ban on men sailing to Valinor is a later thing though. It’s particular to Numenor since before the Numenoreans there weren’t any men who had the wherewithal to actually do it, apart from Tuor and Earendil who kind of don’t count.
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Oct 15, 2021 21:21
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The Valar are only guessing at Illuvatar's will rather than following a grand design. They make mistakes just as much as mortals do, because their actions are their own while the result of those actions lie in God's hands alone. So they sorta hosed up with their handling of Men because they were wary of interfering in Middle Earth again after their war on behalf of the Elves uprooted continents.
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Oct 15, 2021 |
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Oct 15, 2021 21:59
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I’m remembering then deciding asking the elves to come was a mistake? And they didn’t want to repeat it I’m sorry if someone said that already
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Oct 15, 2021 22:09
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The Valar didn't know where the elves were either whem they appeared, Orome just stumbled on them. I do think that the subtext of the Silmarillion is that the Valar probably shouldn't have abandoned Middle-Earth and that their summoning the elves to Valinor was a part of their abdication of their duty.
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Oct 15, 2021 22:16
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