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I hope they do another round of Visions episodes one day (or even take some of the shorts presented in the first one and turn them into full fledged shows in their own right). Speaking of, how’s the novel based on The Duel that came out recently?
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Oct 15, 2021 15:53
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Larryb posted:Speaking of, how’s the novel based on The Duel that came out recently? It's very good, and incredibly dense with characterization and world-building I'm only halfway through it and I felt like I've read two novels worth of material Can't recommend it enough
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Oct 15, 2021 16:23
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Vinylshadow posted:Star Wars Kids has some beautiful Galaxy of Creatures shorts coming out I know it's just because they're popular and want to justify selling merch, but Porgs also being on Batuu (which has ancient ruins and an old Jedi temple) makes me imagine they just stowed away on Jedi ships leaving Ahch-To in ancient times, and archeologists use the presence of Porgs to identify planets that might have potential Jedi artifacts.
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Oct 15, 2021 20:56
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Robot Style posted:I know it's just because they're popular and want to justify selling merch, but Porgs also being on Batuu (which has ancient ruins and an old Jedi temple) makes me imagine they just stowed away on Jedi ships leaving Ahch-To in ancient times, and archeologists use the presence of Porgs to identify planets that might have potential Jedi artifacts. This would be a very clever bit of world building thats very grounded, nice idea!
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Oct 15, 2021 21:09
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So I'm going through this video essay on the politics of Star Wars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TSqjRgh2ZY And it has me thinking on the way Jedi are often represented in prequel materials like Clone Wars or older Legends stories. And I personally think that a lot of people, even George, get into trouble with representing the Jedi as warriors. It's a very tight balancing act to both depict the Jedi as badass swordsmen doing cool poo poo while also trying to emphasize that Jedi acting in this way as enforcers of a corrupt government is a bad thing. On occasion you get introspection, like Barriss reflecting on what the Jedi should be really be doing during Brain Invaders in Season 2 (of course they completely hosed her over in S5 but that's a different matter) but a lot of the show tends to sidestep the messy moral issue of Jedi working against their own ideology in favour of weekly adventures. And that would be fine if Lucas didn't make it such a huge point in the prequels about the moral decay of democracy in the face of corporate greed and corruption. His execution in the prequels of this statement is clumsy at best but it is there. It still gets muddled because the condemnation of Jedi failures is still overshadowed by the intention to show their purge as a tragedy. I think it's a bit misplaced to go from "these guys have lost their way and they kind of suck" to "but isn't it the most tragic thing ever that they're now being killed?" With the Order 66 sequence. Jedi are messy and it's hard to show them both as morally compromised and still badass dudes. Despite it being a deleted scene from Episode 8, I think my absolute favourite argument about the Jedi comes from this scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-He5_RtDE1o Choosing to act and living with the consequences is better than waiting on ceremony and politicking because your order is beholden to a corrupt government. Of course there are drawbacks to being hasty and rushing in, but at least you give a drat.
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Oct 15, 2021 21:15
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Jerkface posted:This would be a very clever bit of world building thats very grounded, nice idea! Arc Hammer posted:Jedi are messy and it's hard to show them both as morally compromised and still badass dudes. Despite it being a deleted scene from Episode 8, I think my absolute favourite argument about the Jedi comes from this scene: 
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Oct 15, 2021 21:38
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Arquinsiel posted:They absolutely should have left that in. It's loving perfect I mean Luke's ultimate victory in ROTJ came from his own faith in Anakin's soul rather than the Jedi teachings warning him about love and attachment. I like Luke's argument in 8 that the Jedi Order was a failed concept. Not building on that notion and falling back onto "Actually the Jedi are cool and awesome once the bad apples are taken out" in episode 9 was expected but still disappointing. This is why I'm rather tapped out on Jedi stories right now, and why Luke's appearance at the end of Mando Season 2 sucked all the enthusiasm I had out of the episode. I want to see how the galaxy adapts to life without the Jedi, or rather, adapts to life with whatever power comes after the Jedi. Can you tell I'm a Kotor 2 fan yet. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Oct 15, 2021 |
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Oct 15, 2021 22:13
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Arc Hammer posted:I mean Luke's ultimate victory in ROTJ came from his own faith in Anakin's soul rather than the Jedi teachings warning him about love and attachment. I like Luke's argument in 8 that the Jedi Order was a failed concept. Not building on that notion and falling back onto "Actually the Jedi are cool and awesome once the bad apples are taken out" in episode 9 was expected but still disappointing. I think that argument ROTJ and TLJ ultimately make though isn't that the Jedi are bad as a concept, but that the prequel Jedi didn't live up to what a Jedi should be and that Luke and Rey ultimately do. Luke rejects the prequel-era shunning of attachments, but in the same breath unambiguously declares himself a Jedi, like his father before him. This is further reinforced with his last line in TLJ being "I will not be the last Jedi" followed immediately by a shot of Rey doing cool Jedi poo poo. Luke improved on failings of the Jedi before him, and as he takes his last breath he knows that Rey will improve on his own failings in turn. So I kind of disagree with you here -- I want to see what this ideal Jedi Order looks like when it embraces Luke and Rey's vision rather than the prequel-era Council. Too bad TROS rejected all of that in favor of "yeah well I hear a bunch of voices and have two lightsabers now, I win!" 
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Oct 15, 2021 22:40
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Vinylshadow posted:It's very good, and incredibly dense with characterization and world-building Say no more. 
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Oct 15, 2021 22:54
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ninjahedgehog posted:Too bad TROS rejected all of that in favor of "yeah well I hear a bunch of voices and have two lightsabers now, I win!"
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Oct 15, 2021 23:00
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It's really amazing how episode 9, both in its own fictional context and in metatextual reality, is simply the laziest path of least resistance humdrum preservation of status quo bullshit imaginable. It ends out a trilogy accomplishing absolutely nothing besides setting things back to square one to do it all again. They chose the quick and easy path and became an agent of evil. Or at least an agent of corporate greed, though that is synonymous with evil.
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Oct 15, 2021 23:18
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There’s just nothing else to say about episode IX other than it’s plain bad and I can’t believe it got released.
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Oct 16, 2021 00:43
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There's supposedly a bunch of people who get recruited into the Jedi order but don't go and become space cops or go down the padawan/knight/master track, and instead become "service corps" and go around the galaxy helping with agriculture, education, exploration, or healing people. It's sort of treated as a "failure" to become a proper Jedi, but I think it'd be really interesting to explore as another alternative to hammering on the same jedi stories that the franchise is mired in. Basically nobody has done any big stories involving them, so anybody who actually does write a story with them will basically get free reign to do whatever. Arc Hammer posted:Jedi are messy and it's hard to show them both as morally compromised and still badass dudes. Despite it being a deleted scene from Episode 8, I think my absolute favourite argument about the Jedi comes from this scene: "Think about the most effective way to do something instead of blundering in to make things worse" doesn't sound like bad advice though. Especially if you're genuinely privy to some sort of cosmic extrasensory insight to help you understand things. And it's weird to accuse the Jedi of being too dispassionate and uninvolved because the entire fall of the order happened because of them jumping into a fight without finishing the investigation of what was happening. Ultimately, I feel like it's mostly pointless for later works of fiction to put a lot of effort into judging the way the Jedi order was in other works of fiction, because it's not actually serving any purpose in the story it's taking place in. You can write the Jedi within one story to be whatever you want, and your hot takes may make some people think, but so often when a writer wants to put a big effort into doing that, they're just stopping the momentum of the story dead in order to get into a pissing match with the rest of the franchise. It's not especially insightful about anything that really matters in the real world, it's not paying attention to the characters in the story that's currently happening, it's not building a better story. It's some of the most unrelatable bullshit with the franchise chasing its own tail, and I'd rather hot takes like that be limited to the dominion of dumb internet arguments.
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Oct 16, 2021 00:54
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ninjahedgehog posted:I think that argument ROTJ and TLJ ultimately make though isn't that the Jedi are bad as a concept, but that the prequel Jedi didn't live up to what a Jedi should be and that Luke and Rey ultimately do. Luke rejects the prequel-era shunning of attachments, but in the same breath unambiguously declares himself a Jedi, like his father before him. This is further reinforced with his last line in TLJ being "I will not be the last Jedi" followed immediately by a shot of Rey doing cool Jedi poo poo. Luke improved on failings of the Jedi before him, and as he takes his last breath he knows that Rey will improve on his own failings in turn. SlothfulCobra posted:"Think about the most effective way to do something instead of blundering in to make things worse" doesn't sound like bad advice though. Especially if you're genuinely privy to some sort of cosmic extrasensory insight to help you understand things. And it's weird to accuse the Jedi of being too dispassionate and uninvolved because the entire fall of the order happened because of them jumping into a fight without finishing the investigation of what was happening.
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Oct 16, 2021 02:43
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watching episode 9 for the first time since theaters and I'm wondering how the dead speak even made it out of the writer's room
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Oct 16, 2021 05:26
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site posted:watching episode 9 for the first time since theaters and I'm wondering how the dead speak even made it out of the writer's room When you source out your big announcements to Fortnite anything will do.
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Oct 16, 2021 05:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u0ejXC7kFs https://twitter.com/willoschneider/status/1210236098942832645
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Oct 16, 2021 05:53
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I kinda like THE DEAD SPEAK for a corny intro line in the title crawl. It's the plot that sucks.
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Oct 16, 2021 06:01
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"The Ninth Jedi" director Kenji Kamiyama has revealed that he is interested in doing a continuation of the Star Wars Visions episode: https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2021/10/13/the-ninth-jedi-director-continuation-star-wars-visions/ Larryb fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Oct 17, 2021 |
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Oct 16, 2021 12:19
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site posted:watching episode 9 for the first time since theaters and I'm wondering how the dead speak even made it out of the writer's room Now try to make it through the rest of the movie without getting angry at how bad it is. First time through, you kinda sit there for most of the movie waiting for the payoff and things to come together. On the second time through, you realise they just don't. Like Finn telling Rey he has something incredibly important he needs to tell her. And Poe reminding Finn that he should tell Rey the incredibly important thing he mentioned wanting to tell her earlier. Then he just doesn't.  Palpatine is Poochie.
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Oct 16, 2021 13:23
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TROS has a lot of failed plot points but Rey should have absolutely killed Chewie.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:25
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Not if they could make a Raiders of the Lost Ark switcheroo, dammit.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:28
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Chewie cannot be killed. He has the strongest fanbase armor of any character possibly ever.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:29
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mdemone posted:Chewie cannot be killed. He has the strongest fanbase armor of any character possibly ever. Not against moons
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Oct 16, 2021 15:45
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Lando being able to amass a giant fuckoff civilian fleet magically capable of taking on a giant fuckoff empire fleet while Leia couldnt get a single loving person to show up in TLJ is a real good laugh. Honestly every little bit of the New Republic they show (and it’s not much) is just complete poo poo if the First Order immediately and decisively rolls over them.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:46
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Funny how Mando had more to say about the state of the New Republic in a pair of Season 2 episodes than the sequels managed in three movies and 10 hours of footage.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:50
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Lando being able to amass a giant fuckoff civilian fleet magically capable of taking on a giant fuckoff empire fleet while Leia couldnt get a single loving person to show up in TLJ is a real good laugh. And he managed it in less than a day. Travelled to the inner core. Convinced people to assemble a fleet. Travelled through Spoopy Space, with no magic tiny Sith pyramid, and destroyed the penis star destroyers. Less than a day. From a man who had just spent 20 years in a party tank in a desert looking for a dead guy.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:59
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Lando being able to amass a giant fuckoff civilian fleet magically capable of taking on a giant fuckoff empire fleet while Leia couldnt get a single loving person to show up in TLJ is a real good laugh. Honestly every little bit of the New Republic they show (and it’s not much) is just complete poo poo if the First Order immediately and decisively rolls over them. Instead of making the First Order a menacing, serious threat, Episodes 8 and 9 really doubled down on making them into incompetent comic relief villains, easily bamboozled by a yo momma joke of all things, which makes the Republic look even dumber and weaker.
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Oct 16, 2021 16:40
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jisforjosh posted:Not against moons drat shame they blew up the moon in the first movie then
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Oct 16, 2021 17:10
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SlothfulCobra posted:There's supposedly a bunch of people who get recruited into the Jedi order but don't go and become space cops or go down the padawan/knight/master track, and instead become "service corps" and go around the galaxy helping with agriculture, education, exploration, or healing people. It's sort of treated as a "failure" to become a proper Jedi, but I think it'd be really interesting to explore as another alternative to hammering on the same jedi stories that the franchise is mired in. In the first "young readers" book from TPM, part of the drama was Obi Wan worrying about "failing" into to corps because the only available master, Qui Gon was still working through his failure of his first apprentice. I think one could do amazing stories around these corps, but I think that wiff of it being a failure would invite a common type of producer who would frame it as a comedy because "LOL failure!"
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Oct 16, 2021 22:51
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The book that set up the Death Troopers book in the old EU was about one of those Jedi. Obviously ends up with them fighting Sith and waving lightsabers around and whatnot, but still.
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Oct 16, 2021 23:57
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I just got done watching Visions. Overall, I liked almost all of the episodes, with 3 and 9 being the exceptions where I actively disliked them. The stretch from episodes 5-8 was the highlight for me. I especially liked the fight choreography in The Elder (finally, somebody with a stabby attack style!) and the animation in Lop and Ochō. I do wish that the producers had pushed the studios to diversify the story subjects at least a little bit, but whatever, I had fun. I'd definitely recommend watching it one episode at a time, though; that'll help with the feeling of story overlap. ------------------------------------------- Also, unrelated to Visions but related to the recent conversation in this thread: Vergere was right about everything in Traitor, and gently caress whoever it was that decided to retcon her as evil.
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Oct 17, 2021 01:22
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There was also a story in the first Clone Wars Adventures comic about some agricultural Jedi dropouts fending off Separatists attacking Dantooine, but it ends with the people deciding that they're good enough to be Jedi Knights and go back to Coruscant instead of seeing their own value as not full Jedi. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Graduation_Day
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Oct 17, 2021 01:32
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Seems like that'd have been a great time to re-establish the full Dantooine enclave to me.
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Oct 17, 2021 02:20
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site posted:watching episode 9 for the first time since theaters and I'm wondering how the dead speak even made it out of the writer's room WAR!
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Oct 17, 2021 02:52
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Hazo posted:WAR! Coming from the ending of attack of the clones that ruled.
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Oct 17, 2021 03:15
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Coming from the ending of attack of the clones that ruled. I honestly always thought it was kind of funny how, for all of us who waited anxiously for years to see what Obi-Wan's cryptically referenced "the Clone Wars" were all about, they teased us with the announcement of the prequels, then teased the idea again throughout the third act of Attack of the Clones, then at the beginning of Episode III it was just like, "LOL A CLONE WAR HAPPENED, HERE'S THE END OF IT" I mean I know in the interim they had the Tartakovsky The Clone Wars series, which was a bunch of fun, but it still didn't really fill in a bunch of the blanks of what was ostensibly a Big Deal so it still felt just kind of mean
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Oct 17, 2021 03:35
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Hazo posted:I honestly always thought it was kind of funny how, for all of us who waited anxiously for years to see what Obi-Wan's cryptically referenced "the Clone Wars" were all about, they teased us with the announcement of the prequels, then teased the idea again throughout the third act of Attack of the Clones, then at the beginning of Episode III it was just like, "LOL A CLONE WAR HAPPENED, HERE'S THE END OF IT" Sadness, but at least we got an official vibroblade in Mandalorian, right? https://twitter.com/pabl0hidalgo/status/1449583375941918725 *edit* why does all the best stuff seem to come from Star Wars creators trying to connect the crazy dots Lucas put down?
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Oct 17, 2021 13:09
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Sekhmnet posted:*edit* why does all the best stuff seem to come from Star Wars creators trying to connect the crazy dots Lucas put down? Creativity benefits from friction and pushback. I don't remember where I read it but someone was commenting about how if you watch the behind the scenes stuff from the original trilogy you can see how George was surrounded by people who would argue with him. It was tense at times and probably unpleasant to witness occasionally but the results speak for themselves. Then, if you watch the BTS stuff from the prequel trilogy all you'll see is a room full of people hanging on Lucas' every word because holy poo poo, we're making a Star Wars movie with George Lucas! And again, the results speak for themselves.
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Oct 17, 2021 13:35
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Yeah it's a pretty well-known thing about the originals, particularly ESB which was probably the least George of all nine films, and as you say that result speaks for itself.
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Oct 17, 2021 13:45
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