|
Stux posted:
Platter drives have terrible seek times that solid state SD cards don't have to deal with Sequential bandwidth is in the same ballpark though
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 21:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 13:21 |
|
|
Stux posted:
So it will have a negligible difference in most games, with only a select few benefiting from the SSD in a significant way.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 21:45
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:So it will have a negligible difference in most games, with only a select few benefiting from the SSD in a significant way. do you live in the year 2010
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 21:46
|
|
|
ExcessBLarg! posted:How is N64 emulation going on the Deck these days?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 21:49
|
|
|
Stux posted:do you live in the year 2010 I've got 4 SSDs and 2 HDDs in my computer. There are a handful of games that see a significant improvement from being on an SSD as opposed to an HDD. The vast majority see only negligible improvements.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 21:53
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:I've got 4 SSDs and 2 HDDs in my computer. There are a handful of games that see a significant improvement from being on an SSD as opposed to an HDD. The vast majority see only negligible improvements. youre off your rocker mate. absolutely on one. chuff off with this bollocks.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 21:57
|
|
|
The 7th Guest posted:tbf if you have three games installed that max out the Deck, one of them is probably a GAAS game like Destiny 2 or an MMO like FF14 and you're just gonna be playing those forever Well yeah but people cry they won’t be able to install multiple AAA titles which you don’t really need
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 21:59
|
|
|
I don't have more than 1-2 "big" games installed on my desktop PC either even though I have plenty of room
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 22:00
|
|
|
Stux posted:youre off your rocker mate. absolutely on one. chuff off with this bollocks. Ok, I'm crazy to suggest that that the vast majority of games will run perfectly fine off the SD card with some exceptions.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 22:02
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:So it will have a negligible difference in most games, with only a select few benefiting from the SSD in a significant way. Whaaa
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 22:02
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:I've got 4 SSDs and 2 HDDs in my computer. There are a handful of games that see a significant improvement from being on an SSD as opposed to an HDD. The vast majority see only negligible improvements. wtf is this
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 22:04
|
|
|
I'm not saying Assassin's creed Valhalla is going to run fantastically off the SD card. There are certainly some games that won't like being installed on it. But like 90% of the games in your library will run perfectly fine off of it with maybe the worst symptom being an extra 5-10 seconds on loading times.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 22:07
|
|
|
repiv posted:You mean UHS? It supports UHS-I, which maxes out at 104MB/sec officially or up to 180MB/sec with some extensions that bend the standard a bit (unclear if the Deck supports that part) No, I mean UFS. https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/memory-storage/memory-cards/mb-fa256g-am-mb-fa256g-am/
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 22:15
|
|
|
JuffoWup posted:No, I mean UFS. thats not a microsd
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 22:19
|
|
|
hey doeso the microsd card slot support ZIp Drives 
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 22:19
|
|
|
That's a new one to me. Looks like a weird proprietary thing Samsung made up and never really went anywhere. The Deck certainly won't support it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 22:20
|
|
|
They're right, as long as the OS is on an SSD then most games still run absolutely fine off a hard drive. Some longer load times but performance is just fine. I installed a bunch of games from Game Pass on my spare hard drive because of how much space they were going to take, including the Halo collection, and they all loaded and ran perfectly fine. Just put your older or indie titles on there, you really won't notice the difference with them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 22:24
|
|
|
I believe it does support BOFA standards so you should be fine
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 22:47
|
|
|
Hard drives have terrible seek times which causes stutter for many games as they stream assets. SD cards are fine, they have low seek times but not too much throughput, which won't matter once the game is loaded. They can handle most games, certainly those you'd play on the n-gabe. Compression would be interesting. Many games don't compress their files. I'd expect a very conservative compress ratio of ~1.2 using zstd3. Just for reference, a game like Crusader Kings 3 consists of 20k files at 5.4GB total, but compresses down to 2.7GB at zstd3. Sunless Skies goes from 3.1GB to 1.1GB. Stellaris (22k files) from 12.2GB to 8.2GB) But those games are ones that have always loaded faster on Linux anyway. Games that have large packed files and perhaps employ some encryption on them for DRM are not going to benefit much.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 23:08
|
|
|
Stux posted:thats not a microsd That is the same form factor and setup of the plastic. Sadly, I had not gone as far as looking to notice the pinouts being different. And also a google search says cross compatibility is supposedly coming, it isn't there yet. Which does make me think they meant uhs. So yes, that was on me. Only because when I looked originally, I didn't see a shot of the pinout to see the difference. Or if there was, assumed it was different specifically to make the reader easily identify what it had.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 23:27
|
|
|
repiv posted:That's a new one to me. Looks like a weird proprietary thing Samsung made up and never really went anywhere. The Deck certainly won't support it. Why did they invent super fast flash storage and only limit it to their absolutely terrible laptops and never do anything else with it again? Infuriating.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 23:33
|
|
|
JuffoWup posted:That is the same form factor and setup of the plastic. it isnt.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 23:42
|
|
|
UFS isn't proprietary to Samsung, it's a standard that is just seeing slow adoption. There are a bunch of phones that use it, but it's not super common in computers yet.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 23:45
|
|
|
Is there much reason for UFS cards to see any real adoption now the newer SD card specs are faster anyway? SD UHS-III does 600MB/sec and SD Express does >1GB/sec Lots of phones use UFS chips soldered to the mainboard, but removable UFS cards seem to be a super niche thing that only Samsung ever promoted, even if it is technically a standard repiv fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Oct 15, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 23:49
|
|
|
i can’t see any way a new form factor of consumer level flash storage gets any sort of major adoption
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 23:50
|
|
|
repiv posted:Is there much reason for UFS cards to see any real adoption now the newer SD card specs are faster anyway? SD UFS-III does 600MB/sec and SD Express does >1GB/sec This is also pretty much a nail in the coffin for UFS adoption, because SD Express is backwards compatible; it just runs slower when plugged into an older port.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2021 23:52
|
|
|
I assume the Deck would support ufs if it's part of the kernel build but unless you're some BSD nerd then ext4 is totally fine.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 00:42
|
|
|
ExcessBLarg! posted:I assume the Deck would support ufs if it's part of the kernel build but unless you're some BSD nerd then ext4 is totally fine. yep. once it has kernal support the mcirosd slot will read ufc, compact flash, floppy disc. anything.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 02:39
|
|
|
Quantum of Phallus posted:i can’t see any way a new form factor of consumer level flash storage gets any sort of major adoption It would only happen if microSD stopped being used in phones and high-end cameras but I don't think either area needs anything faster.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 03:14
|
|
|
microsd is good enough for the switch and its good enough for the steam switch pro deck
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 03:28
|
|
|
load times on nvme is so much faster than any other storage it's ridiculous, the idea that microSD would be remotely similar is crazy
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 03:42
|
|
|
The 7th Guest posted:load times on nvme is so much faster than any other storage it's ridiculous, the idea that microSD would be remotely similar is crazy yeah i don't get it
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 03:47
|
|
|
The 7th Guest posted:load times on nvme is so much faster than any other storage it's ridiculous, the idea that microSD would be remotely similar is crazy load times on nvme are only marginally faster than over sata ssd, but those are generally 2 - 3 times faster than HDDs. You can't really use this to judge microSD performance since IOPS are what's important there and microSD beats HDDs by quite a bit in that department. We need people to actually do direct comparisons between the two.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 03:52
|
|
|
Storage of any type will typically only reach the maximum rated speeds during the reading or writing of large contiguous files. Under most workloads the maximum speed is not reached for a variety of reasons. This is why most games only see an improvement in the 10's of seconds on load times even though an nvme drive has over 10x the transfer rate of a typical HDD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt_iJTrzOus Edit: Note that this video features open-world games that only load on boot and then have no or few loads afterwards. These tend to be the worst-case scenario for HDDs. It depends on the game of course, but often there is typically a 20-ish second reduction in load times when going from HDD -> SSD and then usually between 0-1 second benefit from going from SSD -> nvme. Now this might be a problem if you plan on playing Flight Simulator on your Steam deck, but outside of the latest resource-intensive AAA games it's not likely to make much of a difference for the vast majority of games. And you can always just put those resource-intensive games on the internal SSD. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Oct 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 04:13
|
|
|
The game that needs ssd the most is any Total War
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 04:16
|
|
|
I noticed a huge difference in the time it takes for Windows to boot and be ready to use after switching from HDD to NVME, but honestly the load time savings on games haven't been huge, IMO. I'll be interested in seeing how the Deck runs off of SD, but honestly I highly doubt my small Steam library will fill the drive on the Deck anyways.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 04:22
|
|
|
quote is not edit.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 04:24
|
|
|
Senator Drinksalot posted:The game that needs ssd the most is any Total War 100%. 2D games or visual novels and poo poo need it least obviously. Games that stream in most of their assets will benefit somewhat, but an extra 15 to 20 seconds at the start isn't the end of the world. Games that do full loads every 10 minutes (or less) are unbearable with an HDD. Just the worst. There are also games where most of the load times are due to CPU computations happening in the background, like the sims, minecraft, europa universalis, civilization, etc. Those are probably just fine off of a microsd since the asset loading will finish before the CPU workload either way. Not that I expect the 4X/grand strategy experience to be very good on this thing anyway. Even the biggest naysayers should probably have a microsd card inserted just to store stuff like their screenshots, gameplay videos, etc. I'll also be putting all my random 2D indie games on there.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 04:53
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/OnDeck/status/1449125327108669440 This is pretty impressive, framerate seems to hold up well with all the effects. The Kins fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Oct 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 05:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 13:21 |
|
|
The 7th Guest posted:load times on nvme is so much faster than any other storage it's ridiculous, the idea that microSD would be remotely similar is crazy It's not that I think it's the same, it's that I don't give a poo poo about the difference
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 05:24
|
|
