(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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TheFlyingLlama posted:conceptually I get it, but cats has a stage recording that's...I mean, a 100 times better than the movie but still not very good because the spectacle of going to cats in the theater is like 3/4s the point of cats I don't think deliberate sabotage is a leading factor, a lot of it is just that things need to be cut and changed and they're done poorly out of a mix of incompetence, indifference, and ignorance. Most musicals are too long to adapt as movies without intermissions, they're written and blocked for a small stage and you need to adjust scenes to better occupy the whole world that opens up when you're filming on a set or location, the director and crew have no idea how to film song and dance routines to make them exciting and good, and most film actors don't have the years of vocal training to really loving destroy a song the proper way musical actors can. And it's all fighting against the very staid realism of Hollywood, awards-baity films that train audiences to have very short suspension of disbelief on-ramps. Professional recordings of musicals with their original cast is kind of a related issue though. Broadway stuff by its very nature has to cater to an upper-middle-class-and-above clientele that can regularly afford going to the shows. It needs to maintain an air of exclusivity... or thinks it does. It's a very stupid "Oh well if we record it, now all the plebs will watch that instead of making it a life goal to come see the musical on Broadway!" logic train that also keeps so many hit musicals from being adapted to film while they're still popular and have an excited audience, and instead they get squirted out a decade or two after everyone has moved on. The fact that so many of the films are those kinds of "Well we've milked the musical enough, time to cash out with a quick movie adaption!" probably feeds into the way they they get so carelessly and badly adapted. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Oct 16, 2021 |
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Oct 16, 2021 15:01
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nine-gear crow posted:On the one hand, nothing this dude says in the video is exactly wrong, but on the other I've found myself increasingly becoming sick of the YouTube hagiography of Star Wars in general, so by the end of the video I felt like I was gonna throw up. It's just an evolution of the Star Wars YouTube essay discussion. We've gone past the Plinkett days of "here's how the prequels collapse in on themselves" and now we're into the days of praising the deep philosophical merits of the Originals because sequel bashing is passé. Ar least they're not making those drat ring theory videos anymore. I just thought it was a decent video that didn't get too violently angry at other opinions that are contrary to it. I watched a much longer video about how the prequels depict the downfall of democracy and the moral decay of government institutions. It was interesting but it was also 80 minutes long and at the end felt the need to argue that Revenge of the Sith is the greatest star wars movie ever made before taking swipes at other youtubers and video essays for making fun of the prequels and their politics for being as clumsy and hamfisted as they are. Political discourse around Star Wars is a fun thought exercise but it's more fun in a vacuum rather than actually sitting down down watching the painfully clunky exposition of political ideology in the prequels. Most of the Star wars stuff I watch on YouTube nowadays is just Bombastic's funny short clips episodes.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:07
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George Lucas’ politics and especially what happens when he tries to put them into his movies are pretty interesting. Like with the Vietnam stuff, he has a very clear idea of what he wants to do, but the expression is so muddled that there’s basically no way anyone could figure it out. His aesthetic and the genres that he loves from youth are exactly contrary to the politics he wants to use them to portray.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:13
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:George Lucas’ politics and especially what happens when he tries to put them into his movies are pretty interesting. Like with the Vietnam stuff, he has a very clear idea of what he wants to do, but the expression is so muddled that there’s basically no way anyone could figure it out. His aesthetic and the genres that he loves from youth are exactly contrary to the politics he wants to use them to portray. And then you get into Lucas' ideas of morality, what with Han (not) shooting first or Anakin massacring Sand Persons but that's not his moral event horizon but instead it's when he massacres kids again. (The first having Padme' looking on with not even vague interest because George is not very good at directing living beings.) Like you can't just be pure evil and let pride get in your head because the Council is Holding You Back, you have to do it to save your wife who does not actually need saving at this point.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:25
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That video isn't the first time I've seen this particular thesis about destiny in fiction. It's a pretty decent one. Anyway, here's a spoopy Oirishman talking about scary fillums and other cool stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct5K71hHU_E Maybe I should check that Star Wars Visions thing out. It could be the closest I've come to giving a poo poo about Star Wars since 2019. Dunno about that Malignant rec, though.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:53
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That's why I'm hesitant whenever someone like Dave Filoni or Freddie Prinze Jr. start ascribing genius to Lucas in interviews and commentary tracks. George has great ideas but terrible execution and you can't always separate what his intention was with how it was filmed or written and then declare any naysayers wrong. I tend to like Filoni but he gives Lucas way, way too much credit and acts like his view of what Duel of the Fates means is what Lucas intended all along and people never saw it properly.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:55
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Solitair posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct5K71hHU_E They're decent. Not mindblowing stuff but three of the episodes are really solid and others are middling to okay.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:57
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Uhhh, Malignant is awesome is if someone is recommending it they must have good taste.
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Oct 16, 2021 16:04
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Malignant kicks rear end
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Oct 16, 2021 16:09
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So sad Steve Jobs died of Maligma
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Oct 16, 2021 16:18
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Arc Hammer posted:That's why I'm hesitant whenever someone like Dave Filoni or Freddie Prinze Jr. start ascribing genius to Lucas in interviews and commentary tracks. George has great ideas but terrible execution and you can't always separate what his intention was with how it was filmed or written and then declare any naysayers wrong. I tend to like Filoni but he gives Lucas way, way too much credit and acts like his view of what Duel of the Fates means is what Lucas intended all along and people never saw it properly. Yeah. Not nearly enough credit is given to Marcia Lucas or Gary Kurtz (and others, I'm sure) for what a lot of people think as 'the good Star Wars.' People who could tell George 'no' or just flat out cut something that wasn't working.
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Oct 16, 2021 16:23
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malignant was funny as gently caress
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Oct 16, 2021 17:20
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah. Not nearly enough credit is given to Marcia Lucas or Gary Kurtz (and others, I'm sure) for what a lot of people think as 'the good Star Wars.' People who could tell George 'no' or just flat out cut something that wasn't working. Marcia Lucas has directly refuted the argument that she “saved star wars” and gary kurtz is a self-aggrandizing dipshit who had sour grapes for years after getting fired off of Empire Strikes Back for pissing away the budget and nearly getting the production canned.
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Oct 16, 2021 17:35
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Malignant is a magnificent trolling of horror audiences.
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Oct 16, 2021 17:35
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Yardbomb posted:So sad Steve Jobs died of Maligma Who's Steve Jobs?
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Oct 16, 2021 19:24
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MonsieurChoc posted:Who's Steve Jobs? the guy who invented linux, iirc
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Oct 16, 2021 19:32
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I thought that Woz someone else
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Oct 16, 2021 19:33
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MonsieurChoc posted:Who's Steve Jobs? 
Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Oct 16, 2021 |
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Oct 16, 2021 20:00
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Saberspark takes a look at a staple of late-2000s edgy teen media, Happy Tree Friends: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHvRRDF58l8
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Oct 16, 2021 20:21
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Lady Emily-"The Lost Film About Internet Memes" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRj90zkzjtw Taylor J. Williams-"The Awful Sopranos Prequel" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiJZEBZ9Nhc Sarcopenia fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Oct 16, 2021 |
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Oct 16, 2021 23:33
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Linkara kicks off his Halloween horror season with a review of the manga adaptation of The Ring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zs9vJ3MO88 Even if you don't normally watch his videos, this one is worth it because he makes a lot of points based on comparing the various adaptations of the original story (between the original novel, the manga, the Japanese film, and the American film) and how each of the adaptations did stuff generally better than the last. In particular it's interesting how focus of the story ended up shifting from the the horror in the novel being all about there being people with real psychic powers, one of whom turned out to be a killer that created the tape (by accident?) which is actually an electronic form of smallpox???  to Samara herself and her trying to make her personal story go viral in the American film.
Mr.Radar fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Oct 17, 2021 |
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Oct 16, 2021 23:51
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TheFlyingLlama posted:conceptually I get it, but cats has a stage recording that's...I mean, a 100 times better than the movie but still not very good because the spectacle of going to cats in the theater is like 3/4s the point of cats Just as long as we can all agree the 1986 film adaptation of Little Shop of Horrors is the height of film musicals and also puppets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOtMizMQ6oM Dawgstar posted:And then you get into Lucas' ideas of morality, what with Han (not) shooting first or Anakin massacring Sand Persons but that's not his moral event horizon but instead it's when he massacres kids again. (The first having Padme' looking on with not even vague interest because George is not very good at directing living beings.) Like you can't just be pure evil and let pride get in your head because the Council is Holding You Back, you have to do it to save your wife who does not actually need saving at this point. Honestly, I think the thin that's most harmed the Star War franchise since the prequels was its transition from a movie series with a merchandising empire attached to it, into a multimedia franchise where the spin-offs and merchandise are as integral to the story as the core movies. This becomes really noticeable around the time Revenge of the Sith came out, because it was at this point it became apparent that a lot of integral parts of the story of the prequels just weren't included in the movies themselves. One of the big things fans were looking forward to when the Prequels were still in development was an exploration of exactly what the "Clone Wars" alluded to in A New Hope actually were. Attack of the Clones sets this conflict up and makes it seem like the war is going to be a major plot point in the next film, but then when Revenge of the Sith gets released it starts just as the Clone Wars are ending, almost immediately kills off some prominent characters that were set up in the previous film with little ceremony, and introduces the audience to a bunch of new characters with little in the way of introduction (I'm thinking of Bail Organa and General Grievous specifically here). The actual meat of the Clone Wars would end up being explored in spin=off novels, tv-series, video games and other spin-off projects, many of which are kind of integral to understanding the actual plot of the movies. This was the point where the spin-off material stopped being supplemental and, in doing so, the movies stopped trying to tell stories that could stand on their own and instead became just more pieces in a decentralized, merchandising empire.
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Oct 17, 2021 03:29
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The title crawl in Star Wars 9 referring to an event that occurred only in Fortnite is a highmark in the history of cinema
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Oct 17, 2021 03:37
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KingKalamari posted:Just as long as we can all agree the 1986 film adaptation of Little Shop of Horrors is the height of film musicals and also puppets. I have a theory that movie musicals probably hack it better in film form if they were originally based on a movie to begin with. so stuff like Little Shop, Hairspray, uhhhh I can't think of any others so maybe this is a bad theory lmao. I'm just thinking it's less of a stretch creatively Little Shop is absolutely the peak of musical to film adaptation IMO but it wasn't exactly a flawless transition; they had to change the ending to make it work better for the medium it was in. For some reason the original ending just doesn't come across as well in the movie but I think it's perfect for the stage
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Oct 17, 2021 03:42
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Blood Nightmaster posted:I have a theory that movie musicals probably hack it better in film form if they were originally based on a movie to begin with. so stuff like Little Shop, Hairspray, uhhhh I can't think of any others so maybe this is a bad theory lmao. I'm just thinking it's less of a stretch creatively I know that, in interviews and behind-the-scenes materials, Frank Oz speculated the original ending didn't play as well in film because the medium has a much more solid fourth wall between the audience and the narrative (At the end of the play, after everyone's been eaten, there's still a curtain call where the characters all come out on stage to take a bow alive and well), but I think it was also a result of other narrative changes that were made to the story in adapting it to film. The film does a lot to sand down some of Seymour's rougher edges: He's a much more active participant in Orin's murder, but in a way that makes him appear more heroic, while being much less culpable in Mushnik's death. Also he's played by Rick Morranis, who's just too lovable for his own good. The flow of the original ending was also changed in the film, where we originally got two very intricate, but long musical numbers to cap things off (Mean Green mother from Outer Space immediately followed by the extended, six minute version of Don't Feed the Plants) which led to the original ending kind of dragging on longer than it needed to. I think the original ending of the stage version could have worked in movie form, just not with the rest of the adaptation decisions they made. Edit: I think one other thing that really made the movie adaptation of Little Shop work so well was that they leaned very heavily into the silliness and over-the-top nature of the story with the performances and blocking. There isn't any sort of effort made to make this movie "realistic" or "believable", and I think that really works to the movie's benefit. The fact that everyone is breaking out into song doesn't require a lot of suspension of disbelieve because the movie isn't afraid to be outlandish and cartoonish in any other aspect of its production. KingKalamari fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Oct 17, 2021 |
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Oct 17, 2021 03:52
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Blood Nightmaster posted:I have a theory that movie musicals probably hack it better in film form if they were originally based on a movie to begin with. so stuff like Little Shop, Hairspray, uhhhh I can't think of any others so maybe this is a bad theory lmao. I'm just thinking it's less of a stretch creatively If you're tossing in musicals made as original IP films, there's all the Disney animated musicals, Mary Poppins, Moulin Rouge, Rocky Horror, The Wizard of Oz, and Singin' in the Rain off the top of my head. Definitely a million other golden age films, too. Knowing from the start that you're writing for a film certainly helps with planning out the whole structure and pacing of the story, and what songs should be where.
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Oct 17, 2021 05:05
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Arc Hammer posted:That's why I'm hesitant whenever someone like Dave Filoni or Freddie Prinze Jr. start ascribing genius to Lucas in interviews and commentary tracks. George has great ideas but terrible execution and you can't always separate what his intention was with how it was filmed or written and then declare any naysayers wrong. I tend to like Filoni but he gives Lucas way, way too much credit and acts like his view of what Duel of the Fates means is what Lucas intended all along and people never saw it properly. this. i have some soft spots for parts of the prequels and i like a bunch of the ideas but holy poo poo are not fun to sit through.
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Oct 17, 2021 05:31
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Blood Nightmaster posted:Little Shop is absolutely the peak of musical to film adaptation IMO but it wasn't exactly a flawless transition; they had to change the ending to make it work better for the medium it was in. For some reason the original ending just doesn't come across as well in the movie but I think it's perfect for the stage That change also led to the best song in the movie.
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Oct 17, 2021 14:50
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KingKalamari posted:Honestly, I think the thin that's most harmed the Star War franchise since the prequels was its transition from a movie series with a merchandising empire attached to it, into a multimedia franchise where the spin-offs and merchandise are as integral to the story as the core movies. This becomes really noticeable around the time Revenge of the Sith came out, because it was at this point it became apparent that a lot of integral parts of the story of the prequels just weren't included in the movies themselves. Interestingly enough this was one of Gary Kurtz's problems with how things were trending even by Empire.
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Oct 17, 2021 14:57
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Quick! Watch while you can! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGwTNbuPYBo
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Oct 17, 2021 16:15
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Arbite posted:Quick! Watch while you can! lmao
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Oct 17, 2021 16:34
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If you don't follow Mia Mulder on Twitter, she's planning some pretty big improvements for her channel.
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Oct 17, 2021 17:24
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Groovelord Neato posted:That change also led to the best song in the movie. mean green mother was part of the original cut, and had a better finish as well every part of little shop was superb but ellen greene doesn't get brought up often enough the way she switches from that breathy marilyn monroe speaking voice to blasting the roof off when she starts singing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DD7VIKZnGA
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Oct 17, 2021 19:21
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Funfact is that the original ending of Mean Green Mother was still used for the soundtrack.
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Oct 17, 2021 19:35
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Arbite posted:Quick! Watch while you can!  Mirroring that video might be a good idea…
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Oct 17, 2021 19:42
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGwTNbuPYBo ...There are a couple comments from oldtimers on the new Todd video about how they actually remember seeing Edgar Winter's Scientology album stuffing the shelves on record stores. I well and truly cannot imagine this.
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Oct 17, 2021 21:18
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MisterBadIdea posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGwTNbuPYBo 
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Oct 17, 2021 21:31
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Oxxidation posted:mean green mother was part of the original cut, and had a better finish as well Ah I had always assumed it was for the new ending because it was made for the movie.
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Oct 17, 2021 21:43
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KingKalamari posted:Edit: I think one other thing that really made the movie adaptation of Little Shop work so well was that they leaned very heavily into the silliness and over-the-top nature of the story with the performances and blocking. There isn't any sort of effort made to make this movie "realistic" or "believable", and I think that really works to the movie's benefit. The fact that everyone is breaking out into song doesn't require a lot of suspension of disbelieve because the movie isn't afraid to be outlandish and cartoonish in any other aspect of its production. The rest of your post was solid but this is definitely part of the charm for me that I wasn't sure how to convey in words. I also rewatched it recently with a friend who was going in completely blind and I picked the director's cut, which I'd never seen, just the theatrical ending and stage version. And my buddy seemed super into it until the ending bit which frankly just dragged for reasons you already mentioned--should've just had her watch the one I was familiar with  Ellen Greene absolutely kills it as Audrey, for sure Nuns with Guns posted:If you're tossing in musicals made as original IP films, there's all the Disney animated musicals, Mary Poppins, Moulin Rouge, Rocky Horror, The Wizard of Oz, and Singin' in the Rain off the top of my head. Definitely a million other golden age films, too. Knowing from the start that you're writing for a film certainly helps with planning out the whole structure and pacing of the story, and what songs should be where. Ohh yeah okay, that's what I was missing, stuff that was just made for film to begin with. Although with my initial claim we can probably toss in Grease too, not sure how I forgot that one Arbite posted:Quick! Watch while you can! You know somehow despite this being one of his longest works I didn't feel like it dragged for even a second. A lot of other essayists could really learn from Todd's pacing here! Also "Science fiction concept album" just makes me want to try revisiting Coheed & Cambria. Maybe not entirely seriously (because the wiki article on the lore alone made my eyes glaze over a little) but I remember the music being good. Janelle Monae's discography also has a similar thing going on but it's a lot less, uh, convoluted, if anyone was looking to satisfy that itch without Scientology or prog
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Oct 17, 2021 21:46
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Blood Nightmaster posted:Also "Science fiction concept album" just makes me want to try revisiting Coheed & Cambria. Maybe not entirely seriously (because the wiki article on the lore alone made my eyes glaze over a little) but I remember the music being good. Janelle Monae's discography also has a similar thing going on but it's a lot less, uh, convoluted, if anyone was looking to satisfy that itch without Scientology or prog I always preferred The Dear Hunter, though their aesthetic is penny dreadful instead of science fiction.
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Oct 17, 2021 22:22
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