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hobocrunch posted:To be fair kids that listen to Queen and ACDC are better than the ones that listen to [Insert Youtube Trending Music] This is like watching a Unity/Blender tutorial.
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Oct 15, 2021 07:58
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retpocileh posted:This is like watching a Unity/Blender tutorial. VR / Pantheon stuff aside I actually really like Kyle, he's pretty passionate and smart. The game does need this poo poo but it should have been done 5-6 years ago, everything hosed about this game is related to Brad / Ben Dean / CEOs not the programmers or even Joppa.
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Oct 15, 2021 10:31
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Some rich person should just pay to re-release Vanguard on steam, which was obviously a better game than this in every way and was actually feature complete
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Oct 15, 2021 14:09
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Frog Act posted:Some rich person should just pay to re-release Vanguard on steam, which was obviously a better game than this in every way and was actually feature complete Richard Garriott being a really rich guy AND crowdfunding more money than the original EQ cost to develop in today's dollars and botching it completely is so funny.
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Oct 15, 2021 14:13
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Groovelord Neato posted:Richard Garriott being a really rich guy AND crowdfunding more money than the original EQ cost to develop in today's dollars and botching it completely is so funny. lol yeah I still follow the shroudoftheavatar_raw subreddit which gets like...one post a month documenting SOTA's ongoing collapse. Garriott is completely unaffiliated now but the whole thing goes to show he was never smart, creative, or even remotely interested in his own games/worlds, he was just an empty suit who got lucky in the 90s and has since lost any connection he had to gaming through years of the inhuman existence of the wealthy I legitimately think if he had just bought the rights to something like Vanguard it would still be going and wouldn't just be one dweeby workshy nerd half-assing "development" to milk the last three whales like what happened with SOTA and will 100% happen with Pantheon
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Oct 15, 2021 21:23
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https://www.pantheonmmo.com/raf/ Oh my lord this has to be the most archaic recruit-a-friend system ever. Surely this is exploitable.
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Oct 15, 2021 23:44
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It's never getting released just give it up already lmao
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Oct 16, 2021 03:14
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Frog Act posted:Some rich person should just pay to re-release Vanguard on steam, which was obviously a better game than this in every way and was actually feature complete I've probably said this a few times in this thread, but yeah, Vanguard was great. It had its rough edges, but overall I loved it.
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Oct 16, 2021 03:41
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I didn't play it much but the class design was cool and diplomacy owned. It was just so poorly optimized it ran like complete poo poo on my otherwise very good at the time PC.
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Oct 16, 2021 04:08
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shirunei posted:It's never getting released just give it up already lmao Yeah because you didn’t preorder and refer ten friends!
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Oct 16, 2021 12:28
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Isn't there a Vanguard private server out there? Or is that still in development and hasn't materialized yet?
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Oct 16, 2021 15:03
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Harrow posted:Isn't there a Vanguard private server out there? Or is that still in development and hasn't materialized yet? Yes, this is their discord: https://discord.gg/Yh3zAry7 Project name is VGO Emulator.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:47
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hobocrunch posted:VR / Pantheon stuff aside I actually really like Kyle, he's pretty passionate and smart. The game does need this poo poo but it should have been done 5-6 years ago, everything hosed about this game is related to Brad / Ben Dean / CEOs not the programmers or even Joppa. Joppa's responsible for a lot of feature creep stuff like climbing, which IIRC required a pretty significant world redesign (or two?). I'm pretty sure the "perception system" was also his idea, which is really just questing with more steps and more implementation overhead.
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Oct 17, 2021 22:15
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Harrow posted:Isn't there a Vanguard private server out there? Or is that still in development and hasn't materialized yet? See below, but also it's still in development because of a combination of A) it's volunteer run and the admins still work day jobs and B) They are having to re-create systems and mechanics wholecloth from scratch because the datamining on certain aspects of the game was incomplete. It's playable (kind of) but it certainly isn't feature complete.
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Oct 17, 2021 23:43
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DeathSandwich posted:See below, but also it's still in development because of a combination of A) it's volunteer run and the admins still work day jobs and B) They are having to re-create systems and mechanics wholecloth from scratch because the datamining on certain aspects of the game was incomplete. sounds like it nailed the original
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Oct 18, 2021 17:20
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Vanguard emulator will likely never be completed. There just isn't enough interest, when the game died, it was because the server population was literally zero players for weeks at a time. No one cared when the game shut down.
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Oct 18, 2021 18:47
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This is kind of a stupid question, but why does everyone in MMO HMO talk about how it was done dirty and the best MMO ever if they themselves weren't playing it. Did something change from launch that made it worse like with SWG?
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Oct 18, 2021 22:34
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It was unfinished due to Brad McQuaid being a terrible project manager and forced out the door. You need more than the kind that post here to keep an MMO alive.
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Oct 18, 2021 22:38
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I definitely did play Vanguard and only stopped because there just wasn't enough of a playerbase to sustain a lively world within a year of launch, and when I played at launch, it was overcrowded and suffered from typical issues. There was a brief period where it was a really good and functional leveling experience, at least, though I never got to the supposedly completely unfinished endgame. I'll never forget how it managed to evoke a sense of wonder, exploration, and scale even in a time where that was already mostly absent from MMOs, and of course it's fantastic song system for Bards, among other unique class mechanics.
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Oct 18, 2021 23:07
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Frog Act posted:I definitely did play Vanguard and only stopped because there just wasn't enough of a playerbase to sustain a lively world within a year of launch, and when I played at launch, it was overcrowded and suffered from typical issues. There was a brief period where it was a really good and functional leveling experience, at least, though I never got to the supposedly completely unfinished endgame. No MMO has come close to recreating a blood mage and all the games are worse off for it.
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Oct 18, 2021 23:32
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Is the sense of wonder it evoked mainly due to having a massive largely empty world with some really cool POIs sprinkled in, so that you felt like you were discovering things when you came across one, or something else? idk maybe this is more of an MMO historian thread Q
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Oct 19, 2021 00:42
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It's the former to be honest. Really whoever is working on bringing back Vanguard, should not try to replicate the SoE version, but instead make something entirely new in the Vanguard world.
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Oct 19, 2021 04:43
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Zil posted:No MMO has come close to recreating a blood mage and all the games are worse off for it. Didn't The Secret World have a blood mage class?
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Oct 19, 2021 05:38
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Rift had a class called Chloromancer and it was the best damage = heals class ever. If that game was any good and had a population I would deffo still be playing. Been chasing chloro gameplay ever since.
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Oct 19, 2021 16:48
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LuckyCat posted:Rift had a class called Chloromancer and it was the best damage = heals class ever. If that game was any good and had a population I would deffo still be playing. Been chasing chloro gameplay ever since. Yes
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Oct 19, 2021 16:57
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LuckyCat posted:Rift had a class called Chloromancer and it was the best damage = heals class ever. If that game was any good and had a population I would deffo still be playing. Been chasing chloro gameplay ever since. Rift by all accounts should still be a popular MMORPG, it is amazing how much Trion ruined all of their goodwill and threw away a really good game.
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Oct 19, 2021 18:01
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Yeah, I really enjoyed their bard dps class. Also the skill tree system was a real cool thing from memory. Kinda funny how quickly the game just evaporated.
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Oct 19, 2021 18:06
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LuckyCat posted:Rift had a class called Chloromancer and it was the best damage = heals class ever. If that game was any good and had a population I would deffo still be playing. Been chasing chloro gameplay ever since. The blood mage class was far superior to the chloromancer. The chloromancer was good, but not great like the blood mage.
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Oct 19, 2021 18:51
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can someone do a huge sprawling post about blood mages because i think i'd have loved the class and goon rants are far superior to anything i could google
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Oct 19, 2021 19:39
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30.5 Days posted:This is kind of a stupid question, but why does everyone in MMO HMO talk about how it was done dirty and the best MMO ever if they themselves weren't playing it. Did something change from launch that made it worse like with SWG? i think Vanguard died a hero, full of half-finished dreams.txt. people like to see it for what could have been rather than what was.
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Oct 19, 2021 20:24
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Vanguard to its credit at least launched and was playable. Pantheon will forever just be dreams.txt I think.
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Oct 19, 2021 20:33
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I'd love to hear about Blood mages, Chloromancers, and Rift/Vanguard bards as well. I'm planning on doing a big post about EQ bards that, spoiler alert, is going to go really into the loving weeds of a class that was impossible to balance. I loved playing a hard in EQ.
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Oct 19, 2021 21:10
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I said come in! posted:Rift by all accounts should still be a popular MMORPG, it is amazing how much Trion ruined all of their goodwill and threw away a really good game. I'm gonna do a longpost in the mmo history thread about RIFT someday. My buddy and I led a guild for two years when we were both marginally employed opiate addicts so we spent all of our time wacked out on goofballs working to keep up with the bleeding edge of raid content. I think, in aggregate, it was the absolute zenith of the tab target genre, and did everything better and first. It's astonishing how badly they bungled it, not to mention the legacy launch a year or two ago where they tried to capitalize on WoW classic but hadn't retained any of the actual game files so they made a pathetically slapdash attempt to reconstruct the original launch and it was probably the most broken gaming experience I've ever had
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Oct 19, 2021 21:14
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Does the MMO history thread exist or is it itself dreams.txt?
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Oct 19, 2021 21:34
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Sachant posted:Does the MMO history thread exist or is it itself dreams.txt? It’s real! https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3979819&perpage=40&noseen=1
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Oct 19, 2021 21:41
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I played Rift until 60 during that first expansion (Storm Legion?) but the world never clicked for me. It felt more sterile and uninteresting than WoW (and I didn't find WoW's world terribly interesting starting around Cata). I remember at some point I basically had to grind Infinity Stones to gear up and noped the gently caress out. Still, some of the dungeons and mobs were really cool and some of the souls were interesting.
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Oct 19, 2021 22:34
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FrostyPox posted:I played Rift until 60 during that first expansion (Storm Legion?) but the world never clicked for me. It felt more sterile and uninteresting than WoW (and I didn't find WoW's world terribly interesting starting around Cata). I remember at some point I basically had to grind Infinity Stones to gear up and noped the gently caress out. Rift's world was very much dependent on sufficient player numbers because rifts and zone events spawn based on player count inside the zone and Storm Legion relocated the entire population to Brevane/Dusken. That and onslaught/carnage quests(quests with no quest text that just pop up a "kill X legion hastati in legion camp Y" in the corner of the screen) replacing normal quests made the world feel absolutely desolate and sterile compared to pre-SL and it killed the game through making levelling too dull for new players to reach the rest of the endgame population. It didn't help that SL's zones were also absolutely gargantuan in size but bizarrely devoid of content or even just art assets beyond the bare minimum grass/trees/rocks. Just to give people who didn't play it an idea(you'll probably need to open these on a PC because the images are different sizes):  This is a zone from the base game, it has(or had, I don't know how many were converted to onslaught) 105 quests. In addition, it used to be able to spawn the game's eponymous rifts, which were themed self contained encounters with a few slightly stronger than normal enemies as well as zone events, which filled the zone with similarly themed rifts and wandering world bosses.  This is a zone from the expansion, seen at the same level op map zoom. It holds a whopping 43 non-onslaught quests despite being six times the size of the base game zone. It has no dynamic events whatsoever. Frog Act posted:t hadn't retained any of the actual game files so they made a pathetically slapdash attempt to reconstruct the original launch and it was probably the most broken gaming experience I've ever had What do you mean literally just the Nightmare Tide client with a script to despawn the teleporters to other continents and wipe all xp over level 50 every second doesn't make for a convincing classic server?  Edit: reinstalled the game to go take some screenshots about how striking the difference in quality is but it looks like none of my characters survived my trion and steam accounts getting merged into a gamigo account so I guess that's that then lol. Asehujiko fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Oct 19, 2021 |
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Oct 19, 2021 23:32
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Sachant posted:Joppa's responsible for a lot of feature creep stuff like climbing, which IIRC required a pretty significant world redesign (or two?). I'm pretty sure the "perception system" was also his idea, which is really just questing with more steps and more implementation overhead. The reason I don't blame Joppa is because I don't typically view that as scope creep. Maybe because I think that's got to be the bare minimum mechanics that an MMO should even release with, but also because that kind of design really isn't what is delaying the release of the game anyhow- It's almost entirely related to artists and tools vs time(money). Also I don't think you should trivialize an idea like "Questing with extra steps". There's a lot of video game design that people think is amazing but has arbitrary extra steps involved because that's what gets you engaged, or that's what feels the best. I mean a quest could just be "Click on an NPC and watch a video of your character do a quest for 10 minutes". That's questing with zero steps. Is that better? Obviously not. hobocrunch fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Oct 20, 2021 |
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Oct 20, 2021 00:40
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hobocrunch posted:Also I don't think you should trivialize an idea like "Questing with extra steps". There's a lot of video game design that people think is amazing but has arbitrary extra steps involved because that's what gets you engaged, or that's what feels the best. I mean a quest could just be "Click on an NPC and watch a video of your character do a quest for 10 minutes". That's questing with zero steps. Is that better? Obviously not. I don't know, the perception system seems like it's just trying to coin a marketable term for a bunch of mechanics that already exist. Like we're supposed to be blown away that you can be given quests by things other than people (WoW has tons of quests that start with a ? over an item like a book or something), or that NPCs respond to your race/class in quest dialogue (looks like they just use like, "Hello, %classname%" though). As for bare minimum mechanics... climbing? Really? I don't think that's bare minimum at all. It took them quite a bit of work and I think it's a pretty silly feature in general.
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Oct 20, 2021 04:38
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Sachant posted:I don't know, the perception system seems like it's just trying to coin a marketable term for a bunch of mechanics that already exist. Like we're supposed to be blown away that you can be given quests by things other than people (WoW has tons of quests that start with a ? over an item like a book or something), or that NPCs respond to your race/class in quest dialogue (looks like they just use like, "Hello, %classname%" though). As for bare minimum mechanics... climbing? Really? I don't think that's bare minimum at all. It took them quite a bit of work and I think it's a pretty silly feature in general. I'm not talking bare minimum in that Climbing is an easy to implement thing (or the perception system), I'm saying that as a full packaged video game, it needs (all video games need) a certain amount of mechanics otherwise people will think they're boring and basic. Every game is going to choose a few different things that makes their game unique. SWTOR had multiple stories and choice, GW2 had a world full of objects to click and explore, for example. You can't just release with "WoW Combat" and call it a day. You need something else. That's the bare minimum. I don't think you can blame them for choosing any mechanics at all to add to their game, if you are going to critique them you should be critiquing that the mechanics they chose weren't good choices. I think climbing is fine, it brings verticality to the world. I agree the perception system is likely going to be trash though- But do I blame them for trying to design something to make their game more interesting? No. All of the delay is Brad / Ben Dean / CEOs fault. Ben Dean and Brad had seemingly zero industry knowledge on up-to-date tech and what the company should be using.
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Oct 20, 2021 05:30
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