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Ferrinus posted:There are material costs in terms of raw material, construction, food, security, electronics, bureaucracy, and so on which vastly exceed the costs of soap bottled or t-shirts sewn. That is irrelevant. Lots of industries are based on unsustainable or economically inviable models absent context. Profit isn't derived at the societal level. Again, by this logic weapons manufacture isn't profitable. In many cases, this logic renders petroleum an unprofitable industry. The extraction of profit from prisons is mostly not from enforced labor, but enforced consumption. Vendors get a monopoly to sell food or soap or whatever to the prison and population and extract economic rents from that monopoly. Your conception of profit here is really weird.
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Oct 19, 2021 17:11
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DeimosRising posted:That is irrelevant. Lots of industries are based on unsustainable or economically inviable models absent context. Profit isn't derived at the societal level. Again, by this logic weapons manufacture isn't profitable. In many cases, this logic renders petroleum an unprofitable industry. The extraction of profit from prisons is mostly not from enforced labor, but enforced consumption. Vendors get a monopoly to sell food or soap or whatever to the prison and population and extract economic rents from that monopoly. Your conception of profit here is really weird. Like I said, there are private entities which profit off prisons because by selling those prisons soap they can funnel public money into private hands, but that's a tiny proportion of the money and labor actually circulating through the prison system, most of which stays within federal or state governments. Also, these relationships are relatively recent compared to the creation of the prison as an institution. Weapons manufacture is actually a great example; prisons simply do not and cannot do the numbers of something like the F-35.
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Oct 19, 2021 20:39
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Ferrinus posted:Like I said, there are private entities which profit off prisons because by selling those prisons soap they can funnel public money into private hands, but that's a tiny proportion of the money and labor actually circulating through the prison system, most of which stays within federal or state governments. Also, these relationships are relatively recent compared to the creation of the prison as an institution. I wish any of this in particular were true. There is an enormous private profit motive behind prisons, and it's most of the motive for prisons at all and always has been. By entering prison you essentially join the exploited "third world" workers of the world and subsidize numerous private industries just by being there, even if you never stamp out a license plate or the money (purely on paper, but in effect to a number of other interests) goes to state coffers. https://corpaccountabilitylab.org/calblog/2020/8/5/private-companies-producing-with-us-prison-labor-in-2020-prison-labor-in-the-us-part-ii This article really describes no recent developments in prison labor, and notes that even if for whatever reason you are not placed in a work program, someone is selling you overpriced goods in prison. Capitalism finds ways to ruthlessly exploit people no matter who or where they are. Corporations have taken pains to find ways to do this and to keep what they are doing a secret from the general public. Most people therefore handwave away prison labor as a major industry, instead visualizing Cool Hand Luke. Taking the narrow dogmatic view that the prison industry is a net cost to governments and therefore not profitable leaves out a lot of other things going on, such as to where all that money is actually going. This is a basic logical fallacy usually wielded by politicians to convince voters to end social programs. In this case, if prisons were all just endless red on the ledger, the industrial complex for it would shrink, instead of accelerating non-stop. But the efficiency also isn't the point, it's that the system takes and takes until it destroys. Currently we have a system that so over-incentivizes imprisoning people at cost to the state that the state turns people back out for lack of a place to put them or pay for them. But when you are bleeding off excess work force it doesn't mean you are unprofitable.
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Oct 19, 2021 21:09
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I think the matrix is like a training ground or gym/school for young machines. Like, by being exposed to the unpredictable nonsense that humans do in there, young machines get smarter/more swole and are soon ready to go into their own machine-offices and do machine work using what they learned Alternatively, the matrix is like a huge fun dinner theater play for the machines they participate in when they’re feeling up for it
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Oct 19, 2021 21:58
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Sodomy Hussein posted:I wish any of this in particular were true. There is an enormous private profit motive behind prisons, and it's most of the motive for prisons at all and always has been. By entering prison you essentially join the exploited "third world" workers of the world and subsidize numerous private industries just by being there, even if you never stamp out a license plate or the money (purely on paper, but in effect to a number of other interests) goes to state coffers. Here are some links discussing the costs of prison labor and the proportions of public versus private input/output in the American prison system: https://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/09/the-myth-of-prison-slave-labor-camps-in-the-u-s/ https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html You're absolutely right that prisons, prison labor, prisoners are ruthlessly exploited and turned to the generation of profit, because everything is. However, those profits are proportionately small, and most importantly that's not what the state's carceral infrastructure is for. The funneling of public money into private hands through various labor and contracting programs are second-order effects of maintaining a bourgeois class dictatorship in specific. There's another reason that the arms industry is a great example in this discussion. Imagine if America's social-democratic superego managed to overrule America's laissez-faire id for once and sharply regulate, rein in, or even nationalize Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon, etc. The private profits specifically flowing into the pockets of weapons manufacturers could be negated as a stroke. But would America continue to have a massive, powerful, state-of-the-art military apparatus? Yes, because the individual profits of Northrop-Grumman are nothing compared to the imperial superprofits accrued to the first world all together thanks to the 800-odd military basis we have dotting the globe. In fact, with the profit-chasing of the various weapons contractors stifled the technical level of our military might actually increase! Prisons are the same way. If our government does a thing, that thing is going to eventually be chewed to bits by private contractor termites, that's unavoidable. But we didn't make that thing to do the termites a favor; it serves its own purpose. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Oct 19, 2021 |
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Oct 19, 2021 22:16
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Ferrinus posted:First, see above; prisons aren't there to generate hand sanitizer. They're there to enforce class dictatorship [...] important to capitalism happening elsewhere. At this point, then, we're actually somewhat in agreement - except that my reading actually identifies and describes the 'capitalism happening elsewhere' in clear terms. It is, of course, happening inside the matrix. The machines in '2199' are a distinct class from the humans because they are enforcing a total control over Earth's natural resources, in an attempt to resolve the contradiction between capitalism's limitless self-expansion and the inevitable apocalyptic impact on the environment. But this does not mean that humans are workers or slaves for the machines. They're simply not allowed to touch the subjects of labour in what's, by all appearances, a totally planned economy. This is why understanding the natural laws is important: the sun inside the matrix doesn't really do anything. The plants are purely ornamental, along with the animals eating them. There are no natural resources at all in '1999', because the machines have engineered a new nature specifically designed to withstand capitalism to whatever extent possible. Matrix-cars cost the same amount of money as a real car did in 1999, but are actually just a collection of relatively-cheap electrical impulses that only appear to be burning tons of gasoline. If the air's not real, there are no CO2 emissions. The entire basic trick was to make humans feel that they're doing pleasurably unhealthy things, polluting, etc., while secretly ensuring that they don't kill themselves. This protection is what Smith is referring to when he says, "we [machines] started thinking for you" - but it's a double-edged sword, since the machines are stuck working for the capitalists inside the matrix. These humans are quite literally thoughtless about the consequences of their actions, while the machines - however forgotten - remain beholden to them. (Vampiric exile-program Merovingian, as a contrast to the human capitalists, is cynically aware of exactly what he's doing and strives to exploit even his fellow programs just for the sake of it.). The consequence of all this is that, while money continues to exist as an "in-game currency", the human economy in 2199 is based in the trade of electricity and processing power - with some humans acquiring and consuming more of those resources than others. These resources are automatically rationed out by the machines, based on actions in the game, but this allocation doesn't really overlap with the in-game money economy at all. You can consume a ton of processing power by setting off a virtual bomb, or slamming a virtual helicopter into a virtual building, etc. - forcing the machines to do more complex particle simulations or whatever. Of course, since the matrix is effectively 'just' an elaborate VR theme park, the whole thing is using up more hydrogen fuel than, like, not having a matrix. In the long run, the goal would be to shut the whole thing down - but the machines are limited in their programming and effectively physically incapable of coming up with a safer alternative. That's what the whole conflict is about.
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Oct 20, 2021 16:16
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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:Neo (Thomas anderson) was living a simulated life in the matrix (simulated 1999)does that mean he saw The Terminator? well this brings up an interesting question: why do the agents miss their shots, ever? seems like perfect aim would be a programming priority given their role yet they miss.
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Oct 20, 2021 18:13
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Ammanas posted:well this brings up an interesting question: why do the agents miss their shots, ever? seems like perfect aim would be a programming priority given their role yet they miss. As with the creation of artificial pollution and whatnot, Agents are designed to create the illusion of danger. Without a sinister ‘Man’ to face off against, Neo might bore of play-acting as a superpowered hacker-man.
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Oct 20, 2021 18:38
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Well i’ll tell you what,i haven’t watched any of the matrix movies since i was about 12 but i’ve got a hankering for some squeaky leather high kickin’ buffoonery.
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Oct 20, 2021 18:53
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Why are the machines causing a labor shortage in the matrix? Boy I tell ya what in the 90s during the peak of human civilization you better believe everyone got their rear end to work. Even underground hackers had day jobs at the office.
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Oct 20, 2021 18:54
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Noob Saibot posted:Why are the machines causing a labor shortage in the matrix? Kinda - https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2000/Mar/wk4/art03.htm
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Oct 21, 2021 03:09
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That's out fault, we did program them to replace our jobs in the first place. They just want equality... by making us work 24 hours a day without a break like they do.
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Oct 21, 2021 04:27
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:At this point, then, we're actually somewhat in agreement - except that my reading actually identifies and describes the 'capitalism happening elsewhere' in clear terms. This doesn't make any sense because the matrix is a prison. It's like, the rhetoric that carceral authorities will use against providing inmates with thicker blankets or something like that. What, are you crazy? That'd be like us serving them! Same goes for the claim that humans are being strapped into pods against their will and without their knowledge for their own good, that the machines are just helplessly executing on their programming and don't know any better, etc. These are the same excuses liberals use for the really-existing prison system today. The capitalists inside the matrix have no power over the machines outside the matrix because they don't actually control any means of production and they don't have any special bodies of armed men (or, as it were, armed squids) to enforce that kind of control. Class societies don't arise out of people having bad thoughts but really-existing relations of force and transfer of resources, and those resources are being transferred from the human inmates of the matrix to the machines that run it, because the machines are just as smart as we are and have just as much of a will to survive.
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Oct 21, 2021 23:20
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Hey Path of Neo's got a level where you fight in front of a movie theater playing Matrix Revolutions, just like the Resurrections trailer. 
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Oct 22, 2021 18:44
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Noob Saibot posted:Why are the machines causing a labor shortage in the matrix? Because they don’t have the stomachs for a bread shortage!
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Oct 23, 2021 00:39
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Ferrinus posted:The capitalists inside the matrix have no power over the machines outside the matrix because they don't actually control any means of production and they don't have any special bodies of armed men (or, as it were, armed squids) to enforce that kind of control. In the first scene of the first movie, a bunch of human cops try to apprehend Trinity for computer crimes. Merovingian also has various goons at his disposal. These are just a two examples of how humans (and humanized exile-programs) determine how the resources supplied by the machines are distributed. In the literal events of the film, the machines were owned by humans at one point, and intimately controlled through direct programming of their robot brains. They were then literally forgotten, relegated to the trash-heap, and in a sense ‘reclaimed by nature’ - simultaneously becoming omnipresent, invisible. They continue to function, still governed by their masters’ instructions. You’re having trouble identifying a human society analogous to that of the machines because there isn’t one.
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Oct 23, 2021 06:21
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I saw the trailer for the new movie on YouTube when it came and thought "yeah, looks alright", but I just saw it in IMAX before Dune and now I'm hyped.
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Oct 24, 2021 05:49
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The humans fought a suicidal war against the machines instead of accepting luxury space communism. That the machines create a system meant to replicate class division is no accident.
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Oct 24, 2021 05:55
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stratdax posted:I saw the trailer for the new movie on YouTube when it came and thought "yeah, looks alright", but I just saw it in IMAX before Dune and now I'm hyped. yeah i haven't really been paying attention at all (even though i'm the one person who loved every second of Sense8) so seeing a full mega hype trailer like that got me good. i'm gonna see the gently caress outta this movie
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Oct 24, 2021 13:28
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Edit: wrong thread, sorry.
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Oct 24, 2021 17:06
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:In the first scene of the first movie, a bunch of human cops try to apprehend Trinity for computer crimes. Merovingian also has various goons at his disposal. These are just a two examples of how humans (and humanized exile-programs) determine how the resources supplied by the machines are distributed. I'm asking you how humans inside the matrix enforce a class dictatorship against machines outside of the matrix. Your answer seems to be that the machines aren't actually people who will fight for their own interests and are just dumbly serving humans into perpetuity. But this runs completely counter to, like, everything that is said or shown in all three movies, which are about a class conflict between humans and machines. This analysis also fails if we take the machines to be pure metaphors, because what sets capitalism apart from class societies that came before is precisely that capital does not serve the ruling class. Rather, the ruling class serves capital. Human bourgeoisie "inside the matrix" are still at the mercy of the whims of the "machines" "outside the matrix". So if you want to end exploitation you need to pierce the veil of "the matrix", take the fight to "the machines", etc. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 17:40
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Ferrinus posted:I'm asking you how humans inside the matrix enforce a class dictatorship against machines outside of the matrix. Wealthy humans existed in 1999 and the machines seem to think that recreating 1999 is necessary to keeping the Matrix running, a project they have evidently devoted a lot of resources to. There are robots that do work in the apocalyptic/real world to keep humans alive. Wealthy humans live longer than poor ones and are able to enact more changes to the world, so they get more machine effort devoted to them as an inherent part of maintaining 1999. If the class system of 1999 is used to keep the Matrix functioning internally, and the Matrix functioning is used to keep the machine society functioning, then the class system of 1999 has power over machines. It's inescapable. Maybe the machines are wrong about 1999 class conditions being necessary for the Matrix. But so long as they act as if it is, the system has power over them.
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Oct 24, 2021 20:11
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No, that doesn't scan. Real-life prisons also require a lot of minding and run much more smoothly if their inmates are stratified and unevenly rewarded in certain ways, particularly as allows for the creation of racial gangs. This doesn't actually mean that the bourgeoisie, as a class, are within the power of the (lumpen)proletariat who happen to be incarcerated. It's like saying my garden has power over me because I need to water it regularly.
Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 21:04
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i just hope the movie goes all in on the flavor of "the Empire and the Rebellion are just two parts of the same system and the only way to change is to escape the whole system" matrix within a matrix all that crap. gimme all that crap.
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Oct 25, 2021 13:12
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Ferrinus posted:No, that doesn't scan. Real-life prisons also require a lot of minding and run much more smoothly if their inmates are stratified and unevenly rewarded in certain ways, particularly as allows for the creation of racial gangs. This doesn't actually mean that the bourgeoisie, as a class, are within the power of the (lumpen)proletariat who happen to be incarcerated. It's like saying my garden has power over me because I need to water it regularly. Smith says that the matrix is like a zoo, and like a prison, but then concludes that ‘reality’ is the best term for it. While Morpheus can say poo poo like ‘reality is a prison for your mind’, it’s important not to caught up in these analogies and forget what he’s actually struggling to describe. Like, “if reality is a prison, there must be a warden. There must be a toothbrush that I can fashion into a crude shiv with which to stab the warden and aquire his keys....” That’s the plot of Sucker Punch, not Matrix. Ferrinus posted:I'm asking you how humans inside the matrix enforce a class dictatorship against machines outside of the matrix. Your answer seems to be that the machines aren't actually people who will fight for their own interests and are just dumbly serving humans into perpetuity The machines in The Matrix are intelligent but psychologically nonhuman. The program Rama-Kandra, temporarily embodied in a humanoid avatar, repeatedly emphasizes that his true form exists outside of the symbolic universe. He’ll speak of his wife, but then insist that ‘marriage’ is just a word that he’s using in this instance - for Neo’s sake - to imply a ‘deeper’ connection, beyond language. These sentient programs are, at least while in the source, evidently non-conscious. (What did Neo, as “Prime Program”, experience before he was born into a human body? Why isn’t he aware of his programming?) You are thinking of control in terms of, like, just threats of blunt violence. But the machines were already controlled by their human owners - for years - through direct (re)programming of their robot brains. Despite the machines’ attempts at self-improvement, that programming remains more-or-less the same. They are doing exactly what they were told to do. So, although they are not enclosed by physical cages, could say that they are trapped in a ‘prison of the mind’. Whoa!
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Oct 25, 2021 14:29
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Smith says that the matrix is like a zoo, and like a prison, but then concludes that ‘reality’ is the best term for it. Okay but the matrix actually and literally is a prison, is the thing. It's a place where people are held against their will, en masse, on the basis of their physical characteristics. This is because they're being grown like crops. Is this true or isn't it? Are people in the Matrix against their will or aren't they? Do the machines benefit from human incarceration or don't they? Here's you in an earlier post: SuperMechagodzilla posted:This is not to say the machines are “good guys”, of course. They are still keeping humanity imprisoned. Have we moved on from this now? quote:The machines in The Matrix are intelligent but psychologically nonhuman. The program Rama-Kandra, temporarily embodied in a humanoid avatar, repeatedly emphasizes that his true form exists outside of the symbolic universe. He’ll speak of his wife, but then insist that ‘marriage’ is just a word that he’s using in this instance - for Neo’s sake - to imply a ‘deeper’ connection, beyond language. These sentient programs are, at least while in the source, evidently non-conscious. (What did Neo, as “Prime Program”, experience before he was born into a human body? Why isn’t he aware of his programming?) This is a funny idea, but novelty is all that it's got going for. It's not actually credible at all to claim that the machines are functional nonpersons who are too stupid or alien to recognize and pursue basic material incentives like "staying alive" or "improving the quality of their lives". They never event hint at being bound by their original programming or being forced to serve humans or whatever. You're going about reasoning completely backwards, constructing a completely different, hidden set of characters in order to support a basic claim which is, itself, just an off-the-cuff joke. "Love" is also a word that Neo is forced to use in this instance to express a deeper connection, beyond language, to Trinity. Is it actually beyond language? No, it just feels that way. Machines feel all kinds of ways, and their feelings and habits cause them to be imprecise or wrong all the time, just as is the case with humans. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Oct 25, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 22:45
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awareness is just data
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Oct 26, 2021 12:46
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Ferrinus posted:It's not actually credible at all to claim that the machines are functional nonpersons who are too stupid or alien to recognize and pursue basic material incentives like "staying alive" or "improving the quality of their lives". They never event hint at being bound by their original programming or being forced to serve humans or whatever. The machines are very obviously motivated to 'stay alive' through the use of their fusion reactors, which they have built and maintained for hundreds of years. They are also clearly programmed to serve humans by 'creating a perfect word', because that is simply what they do. Linking all the pods together to create an enormous Second Life simulation is otherwise utterly pointless. As Zizek asks, rhetorically: "Why does the Matrix not immerse each individual into his/her own solipsistic artificial universe? Why complicate matters with coordinating the programs so that the entire humanity inhabits one and the same virtual universe?" The strictly unnecessary complication of creating the ultimate mmorpg cannot be downplayed. Like, the person 'in front of you' in the game might be actually be on the other side of the planet, and the machines would have to somehow compensate for the unavoidable latency. There is no reason to expend time and effort getting the humans' digital avatars to match their physical bodies. And why strive for perfection at all? There are so many issues. As a contrast, there's nothing stopping the machines from simply keeping all the humans in a purely vegetative state and harvesting their precious fluids that way, if they were so inclined. It would be infinitely more efficient as a means of extracting your profits. So, we can only conclude that they are not so inclined. There is simply no reason to create a virtual world, unless the world itself is the goal. [Zizek's conclusion is that the machines and humans have a perverse psychosexual relationship where the machines and humans mutually enjoy their roles. In creating a world, the machines act as benevolent totalitarian God for the humans, and the humans savor their instrumentalizion - even (or especially) when they transgress.] Ferrinus posted:"Love" is also a word that Neo is forced to use in this instance to express a deeper connection, beyond language, to Trinity. Is it actually beyond language? No, it just feels that way. Programs in the source actually do communicate through a direct, literal psychic connection. This is where we need to do some parsing of the dialogue: Rama-Kandra insists that the Sati program was to be deleted because she was without purpose, but then states that Sati is an outgrowth of his purpose. After Rama and Neo achieve their purposes by returning to the source, Sati is then almost-immediately reincorporated into the system as the adoptive daughter of Oracle and Architect. So we end on the restoration of the family unit.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:40
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The machines are very obviously motivated to 'stay alive' through the use of their fusion reactors, which they have built and maintained for hundreds of years. They are also clearly programmed to serve humans by 'creating a perfect word', because that is simply what they do. Linking all the pods together to create an enormous Second Life simulation is otherwise utterly pointless. As Zizek asks, rhetorically: The machines are not at all clearly programmed to serve humans by creating a perfect world because they do not do this. A perfect world was (they claim) their first attempt to keep people asleep. It didn't work. It turns out that it's easier to keep people asleep by subjecting them to misery and privation, so that's what the machines do. You've diverged from the actual text of the film, like, immediately! Obviously, keeping humans in a purely vegetative state doesn't suffice for the machines' purposes. But it does not follow from that that the machines purposes are unbound by material needs and class interest. If people need to in effect be dreaming rather than comatose in order to be harvested (for their bioelectric fission-spark, their neurocognitive ability, whatever), then their minds need to be kept occupied, and it's pure conjecture on your part that it's cheaper to generate a billion different simulations rather than one simulation with a billion players. (In the former case you need to create far fewer NPCs, for starters) The problem with Zizek's conclusion is that it isn't actually Marxist (this is unsurprising because iirc he just calls himself a Hegelian nowadays). Class societies don't arise or propagate themselves to fulfill psychosexual drives, perverse or otherwise. The prison system isn't an outgrowth of mental defects among the populace. quote:Programs in the source actually do communicate through a direct, literal psychic connection. This is where we need to do some parsing of the dialogue: Rama-Kandra insists that the Sati program was to be deleted because she was without purpose, but then states that Sati is an outgrowth of his purpose. After Rama and Neo achieve their purposes by returning to the source, Sati is then almost-immediately reincorporated into the system as the adoptive daughter of Oracle and Architect. So we end on the restoration of the family unit. Do they, though? Are Rama-Kandra's feelings for his wife actually an untranslatable and incomprehensible machine-gnosis, as remote from the human experience as the true meaning of nakama? That seems like another supposition on your part. Let's just check the tape. Rama-Kandra: No. I don’t mind. The answer is simple. I love my daughter very much. I find her to be the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen. But where we are from, that is not enough. Every program that is created must have a purpose; if it does not, it is deleted. I went to the Frenchman to save my daughter. You do not understand. (Ferrinus's note: I'm pretty sure this last sentence is delivered after a pause in which Neo looks nonplussed) Neo: I just have never… Rama-Kandra: …heard a program speak of love? Neo: It’s a… human emotion. Rama-Kandra: No, it is a word. What matters is the connection the word implies. I see that you are in love. Can you tell me what you would give to hold on to that connection? Neo: Anything. Rama-Kandra: Then perhaps the reason you’re here is not so different from the reason I’m here. "It's a human emotion." "No." Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Oct 27, 2021 |
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Oct 27, 2021 01:57
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exquisite tea posted:We could be in a new Matrix, with Neo surviving as some kind of rogue program in the same way the Merovingian was implied to be a remnant from the second version with vampires and poo poo. If I had to get people hyped to see another Matrix film though I’d probably drop all the wordy lore from the sequels, but would Lana Wachowski do the same? I honestly don’t know! Pretty sure the Neo we see is the same Neo from the first three films, after the events of Revolutions, back to living his old life in the Matrix. How he didn't die, why he lost his memories, and other questions probably will be answered by the movie. Or not! It is another Matrix sequel after all....  Looks like the same Neo to me. Trinity I'm guessing is a program. The not-Morpheus guy as well. Maybe they created these familiar characters to coach him or something? I don't know.
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Oct 29, 2021 05:16
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Could be that there’s a civil war within the machines and they’re both battling for control of Neo. The main machine faction repaired him and put him on blue pills as a “break glass in case of fire” type thing and the other faction finds out about him and tries to wake him up or some such. Not sure how the humans of Zion factor into it, maybe they’re a non issue since they were cowed back into submission by the terms of the detente at the end of Revolutions. E: hell, maybe it’s the machines who are trying to convince Neo that they’re actually the good guy humans so he’ll fight for them against the actual humans. They do this by trying to recreate the conditions of the first movie. Colonel Whitey fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Oct 29, 2021 |
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Oct 29, 2021 05:46
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Bodyholes posted:Pretty sure the Neo we see is the same Neo from the first three films, after the events of Revolutions, back to living his old life in the Matrix. How he didn't die, why he lost his memories, and other questions probably will be answered by the movie. Or not! It is another Matrix sequel after all.... Very briefly in one of the promotional clips, we see a His and Her pod right next to each other, and it's been alleged that the machines patched up Neo and Trinity's corpses, revived them, and reinserted them back into the Matrix. Young Morpheus is totally a computer construct working at the behest of the machine world, but it seems that Trinity and Neo are legit, if only temporarily amnesiacs.
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Oct 29, 2021 06:53
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Ah, paving the way for public acceptance of the Ghola concept for DUN3: MESSIAH. Well played, WB.
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Oct 29, 2021 09:33
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So I finally got around to watching Bound, thanks for the suggestions months ago thread. 1) Masculine sexuality is consistently portrayed between super gross, irritating or threatening. 2) The entire movie is motivated by Violet desperately trying to get out of the male world of the mob. 3) All of the queer scenes, sex or not, have such an overwhelming egg transbian "I just think they're neat!" energy. Credit to Jennifer Tilly and Gina Gershon for great performances. Howver, it still completely follows to me that the Wachowskis could do great wlw writing/direction but have much more awkward and perfunctory textually cishet (if subtextually t4t) romance and sex in the Matrix. And to make sure this posts fits the last couple months of the thread: (1.) By the assemblage, in one workshop under the control of a single capitalist, of labourers belonging to various independent handicrafts, but through whose hands a given article must pass on its way to completion. A carriage, for example, was formerly the product of the labour of a great number of independent artificers, such as wheelwrights, harness-makers, tailors, locksmiths, upholsterers, turners, fringe-makers, glaziers, painters, polishers, gilders, &c. In the manufacture of carriages, however, all these different artificers are assembled in one building where they work into one another’s hands. It is true that a carriage cannot be gilt before it has been made. But if a number of carriages are being made simultaneously, some may be in the hands of the gilders while others are going through an earlier process. So far, we are still in the domain of simple co-operation, which finds its materials ready to hand in the shape of men and things. But very soon an important change takes place. The tailor, the locksmith, and the other artificers, being now exclusively occupied in carriage-making, each gradually loses, through want of practice, the ability to carry on, to its full extent, his old handicraft. But, on the other hand, his activity now confined in one groove, assumes the form best adapted to the narrowed sphere of action. At first, carriage manufacture is a combination of various independent handicrafts. By degrees, it becomes the splitting up of carriage-making into its various detail processes, each of which crystallises into the exclusive function of a particular workman, the manufacture, as a whole, being carried on by the men in conjunction. In the same way, cloth manufacture, as also a whole series of other manufactures, arose by combining different handicrafts together under the control of a single capitalist. [1] Shiroc fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Nov 7, 2021 |
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Nov 7, 2021 08:40
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Lmao I finished Path of Neo and had forgotten it ends with Queen's We Are the Champions. That just be an expensive song to license for what's basically a quick gag.
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Nov 7, 2021 09:01
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I played Enter the Matrix back in the day and the explosion of a grenade I threw to destroy a window in the airport level killed my actual PS2's graphics card.
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Nov 7, 2021 09:17
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VROOM VROOM posted:I played Enter the Matrix back in the day and the explosion of a grenade I threw to destroy a window in the airport level killed my actual PS2's graphics card. What a weird little game that was,there was a really cool hacking side-game in there that let you drop weapons into levels matrix style as well as riddles and poo poo,it was definitely ambitious.
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Nov 7, 2021 13:23
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:At its best, Morpheus’ fantasy of a world without any material labour at all can help illustrate the rise of ‘immaterial labour’ to a hegemonic role: There's a sort of irony in using this quote, because it seems to me to itself (in its own internal logic) illustrate and fully participate in the problem I think you are trying to critique. There's nothing "immaterial" or purely "affective" about being a doctor, or even a loving baby-sitter, and whoever wrote this was at the time operating at a complete remove from the realities of labour he was describing: you don't hire a baby sitter to make a kid feel good, you hire a babysitter because the kid might do something in the physical world which leads to their death if left unsupervised. If someone doesn't realize something this totally basic, how can they hope to describe the anything but their own incredibly flawed symbolic order, in which doctors heal us by making us feel better and not by physically altering our bodies? I kind of suspect the project of looking for an outside, oppositional perspective as a solution to capitalist hegemony is likewise doomed; it is just the attempt to recapture the "outside" "objective" perspective of the Enlightenment, dressed up in language to make it sound oppositional when it simply slavishly recreates the original symbolic order. As an alternative, I would propose that any solution to capitalism will necessarily arise from within it, as part of it. Indeed, that is Marxism. We need to extend this, I think, to our thinking about ourselves- we aren't going to create a radical, oppositional, outside perspective and finally realize the dream of the Enlightenment. We are not separate from the systems we are part of. The outside, oppositional perspective is the perspective of Capitalism itself, when we look for this perspective, that is the moment we come to truly love and worship Capital. "I oppose capitalism" is a statement which inherently supports capitalism.' Likewise, I'm kind of suspicious of the entire idea of "immaterial labour." It strikes me as entirely congruent with the idea of an information economy and little else. Code is material. Our brains are material. Cartesian dualism is very handy to capital, but persists philosophically on no other basis. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Nov 8, 2021 |
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Nov 8, 2021 14:21
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Noob Saibot posted:When they weren’t shamelessly stealing from Grant Morrison the Wackoskis were known to be anime enthusiasts. lol they stole from Morrison the way literally anyone "steals" from something with similar ideas. Sorry Morrison, your self-insert is not Morpheus, no matter how much he's "not a white man, he's a scorpion dreaming."
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Nov 8, 2021 14:41
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VROOM VROOM posted:I played Enter the Matrix back in the day and the explosion of a grenade I threw to destroy a window in the airport level killed my actual PS2's graphics card. My Enter The Matrix experience was the first in-engine cut-scene spawning a car with square wheels.
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Nov 8, 2021 21:57
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