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thanks to everyone for the support. apologies for being a sad sack rn.
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Oct 21, 2021 23:35
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echinopsis posted:but thanks. maybe you’re right he's right. this really isn't a channel that you'll ever get some kind of receptive response from. look for and reply to job postings.
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Oct 21, 2021 23:35
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if you want to get a job at a company you should probably apply instead of calling some rando who is mostly going to be annoyed that you called
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Oct 21, 2021 23:39
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i'm just imagining that echi has been giving would-be pharmacists advice on cold calls for the past decade, and he's absolutely gutted that not every industry has a "hit the yellow pages, get a job" pipeline
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Oct 21, 2021 23:41
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you gotta pound the pavement. walk up to the manger, give him a firm handshake, hit the gym, and lawyer up
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Oct 21, 2021 23:44
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my dude, get your resume together, find companies that are looking to hire, and then apply to them. cold calling someone is the worst thing you could possibly do. nobody wants to get phone calls of any kind let alone from some guy who cant find the job openings on the company website. get on linked in and put all ur pharma creds in there and if you have some legit computer skills throw them in there too. recruiters will come out of the woodwork and you can start getting a feel for whats out there and if any of it interests you.
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Oct 21, 2021 23:47
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echinopsis posted:well this is what I asked. I asked to speak to a person about the topic of future employment. but he just said “we don’t do that”. this is one of the few things linkedin is actually good for. the approach I've used is: 1. find a bunch (say 5-10) of people who have the job you want, and that you have a vaguely defendable connection to (same school, same town, same first name, whatever). 2. send them a message saying you are researching different types of roles as part of a career shift, and you would like to chat on the phone for 10-15 minutes about their work and how they go to it. 3. you will get a 10-20% response rate which is fine. go into the calls with a bunch of questions (you should have plenty of questions) and use this to refine your understanding of the job, and help you write better applications. you have to do this sincerely - you don't drop 'can i have job' in at the end, you are genuinely doing research to help you understand what you want. 4. when a job that fits comes up at a company where you now know someone, you can let them know you have applied, or sometimes they might reach out to you proactively. this does a couple of good things: changes the conversation from one of desperation (please give me a job) to confidence (I am researching to choose amongst the many jobs I am definitely able to get) helps avoid awful companies helps you confirm you actually want to do the job the bad thing is it's a long process and won't give instant gratification the way shooting off an application blindly will. happy to take criticism on any of this btw, it's worked for me in the past but i could see how it could waste a bunch of time too.
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Oct 21, 2021 23:50
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Achmed Jones posted:i'm just imagining that echi has been giving would-be pharmacists advice on cold calls for the past decade, and he's absolutely gutted that not every industry has a "hit the yellow pages, get a job" pipeline why you gotta talk about me like that  Shaggar posted:
anyway thanks to everyone for their advice . I feel pretty fuckin stupid right now but maybe that’s a necessary learning opportunity
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Oct 22, 2021 00:22
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you must have a humiliation kink there is no other explanation
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Oct 22, 2021 00:27
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code touching is just not an industry where that sort of approach works, the recruitment process is long, stupid, formalised and occasionally arduous, in part because the industry is open to people without formal qualifications but still pays well so you get a lot of chaff if you want that kind of advice go to your local developer meetup if you have one during covid, but all the ones here got cancelled despite this being a prominent computer toucher area so YMMV for the next year or two e: a recruiter might be able to help, but keep in mind they only care about their commission, not you getting a good job, regardless of what they say, still can probably give some advice Private Speech fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 00:32
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echinopsis posted:drat just got shut down. called up company that makes primary pharmacy software in nz the original thread title was 'job hunting and interviewing is garbage' for a reason. it's a numbers game. keep rolling until you hit 7
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Oct 22, 2021 02:39
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no echi that's not what he meant! do not wardial their company directory!
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Oct 22, 2021 02:42
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alright gonna effortpost how the white collar interview process more or less works. i'll edit this post with it just a sec e: office jobs all follow a pretty standard process for hiring, and if you go outside of this process everyone is going to look at you like you have two heads. it's not your fault that you don't know what this process is, and the people looking at you like you have two heads also don't understand that not everyone knows this like the back of their hands. it's a skill that most of us are taught when getting into our first internship. the process can start either one of two ways. either they decide that they need to hire to fill a position, or someone with some sway inside the company finds you and decides that they need to create a position for you to fill. almost always you're going to be falling somehow into the former, but it goes without saying that being in the latter is a very very good place to be. when they decide to hire for a position a bunch of processes are set into motion. the team or department overseeing the team has to come up with a job description. that job description is then vetted by the hr department. the budget is cleared with accounting. management decides who the new hire is going to work under. etc etc etc. eventually this is all hammered out and the job description is passed back to the hr department, or recruiting if the company is large enough to have a dedicated recruiting department, and they start posting the job opening on places like linkedin, the internal company job board, and wherever else. at this point external recruiters may be brought in as well. these guys take the job description and contact everyone they possibly can to try to get the job posting in front of as many eyeballs as possible. if someone they convince to interview gets the job, they get a payout based on the candidate's salary. it's usually something like 10% where they get the first half up front and the second half if the new employee remains with the company past a year. you may be thinking, 'wow this probably incentivizes external recruiters to just throw as much poo poo at that wall as they can to pump up the volume' and you'd be 100% correct. they're almost entirely garbage. don't be surprised if you have a rough time with an external recruiter because they're all bottom of the barrel garbage. however when you're first getting started you'll have to deal with it because they'll probably be the only ones who contact you. anyways- at this point the company is getting resume submissions for the position. every company handles this next part differently but it's mostly: a group of people sift through the resumes to find people they want to interview, those candidates are interviewed, a final candidate is identified and extended an offer. every step of this process is extremely arbitrary and people will reject candidates for any loving reason. one of the reviewers didn't like the font you used on your resume? denied. a recruiter thinks one of your bullet points is awkward and makes them think of a bad time they had two jobs ago? denied. do not take it personally if you submit a lot of resumes to jobs you think line up with you perfectly and don't hear back from 95% of them. you're being rejected for extremely stupid and arbitrary reasons. that's just how it is and why i said it's a numbers game. you just have to keep bashing your head against that brick wall until you finally smash through. the interview process itself is an entire process that any of us could write a book about. i recommend googling some common interview questions and preparing how you'd answer them. things like, 'tell me about a time you had a conflict in the workplace and how you resolved it' or 'what's your greatest weakness?' that kind of bullshit. the thing to keep in mind however that at this point, all of the interviewers are looking for a good gut feeling about you. it's most likely that you're talking to the people you'll actually be working with and they're mostly concerned with: is this guy going to be able to do the job and not be a colossal pain in my rear end, and is this guy someone i actually want to work with. this process is also just as arbitrary as the resume process. you answered the question you thought the interviewer was asking but it turned out he was trying to get at something else and you didn't pick up the hint? denied. interviewer just thought you 'came across wrong' when they asked you something specific even though you answered it correctly? denied. just like with the resumes, if you get rejected time and time again despite feeling like you knocked it out of the park, don't beat yourself up over it. it's stupid and arbitrary. eventually you get to the offer stage, which we have an entire thread dedicated to in business and finance for a reason. this is basically hr trying to figure out how little they can get away with paying you while you try to figure out how much you can get out of them. just like the resume and interview stages before, don't beat yourself up if you gently caress this up the first few times you go through this. they do it for a living day in and day out while you do it maybe once every couple of years at most. again, i want to emphasize that i call this a numbers game for a reason. make sure you have some friends or people itt review your resume to make sure it looks ok because there's shitloads of unspoken rules about them. the interviews you'll just get the hang of by doing lots of them. eventually you will have done so many that you won't give a poo poo any more which ironically will make you way WAY better at interviewing. with the offer stage just hold the cardinal rule of NEVER SAY A loving NUMBER JESUS loving CHRIST close to your heart and you'll probably do fine. if you have questions about specifics we can help you out with that too PIZZA.BAT fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 02:43
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yes i know there's an entire other world where headhunters are proactively reaching out to you but if you're at that point you don't need a big effortpost to tell you what to do
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Oct 22, 2021 03:08
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i feel like the cold calling thing can work, but don't do it via the phone. reach out to a recruiter manager or even engineer at the company via linkedin and explain the situation and give your qualifications and there's a small chance they'll be interested in hiring you or at least give you a direction to head. receptionist isn't going to know what to do with that request, so they'll just want to get you off the phone
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Oct 22, 2021 03:10
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drat that was good post
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Oct 22, 2021 04:05
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mind if i put this amazing piece of advice in the op?
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Oct 22, 2021 10:12
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my stepdads beer posted:drat that was good post
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Oct 22, 2021 13:02
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champagne posting posted:mind if i put this amazing piece of advice in the op? yeah go for it
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Oct 22, 2021 13:15
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That's good poo poo pizza.bat, thanks for poasting
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Oct 22, 2021 13:18
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there is a very good chance that the place you called has specific policies in place that funnel cold callers to a small number of very specific people for very specific reasons and shut everyone else down for information security reasons.
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Oct 22, 2021 13:37
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Armitag3 posted:That's good poo poo pizza.bat, thanks for poasting
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Oct 22, 2021 13:59
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no sorry i remain firmly convinced that everyone else is having an easy time of it
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Oct 22, 2021 15:21
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Gazpacho posted:no sorry i remain firmly convinced that everyone else is having an easy time of it i don't think i'll ever have the talent of judging how hard others have it
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Oct 22, 2021 15:23
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drat it I came here to complain and wallow in my inability to get a job but between echinopsis hogging the pity party* and pizza.bat's awesome post I have no excuse now  *I'm joking, and if it helps any I'm facing a lot of rejection and self-esteem issues too. you're not alone friendo 
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Oct 22, 2021 20:35
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actually I came here to ask, if I don't have any professional references am I just hosed? my situation is kind of unique in that I took a break from my career and haven't had a tech job in two years (after getting into it right out of college seven years ago). I didn't get very far the first time so I'm just applying to entry level positions right now.
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Oct 22, 2021 20:39
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kalel posted:actually I came here to ask, if I don't have any professional references am I just hosed? my situation is kind of unique in that I took a break from my career and haven't had a tech job in two years (after getting into it right out of college seven years ago). I didn't get very far the first time so I'm just applying to entry level positions right now. I’ve never had anyone check references, for any job
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Oct 22, 2021 21:11
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i had it happen once but the hiring manager was a complete weirdo that job
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Oct 22, 2021 21:13
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my last four jobs all called at least three of my references but this was all big companies
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Oct 22, 2021 21:18
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I quiz people who ask me. why do you want to ask to verify I’m a complete person? it’s weird and slightly insulting
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Oct 22, 2021 21:39
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kalel posted:actually I came here to ask, if I don't have any professional references am I just hosed? my situation is kind of unique in that I took a break from my career and haven't had a tech job in two years (after getting into it right out of college seven years ago). I didn't get very far the first time so I'm just applying to entry level positions right now. now is a pretty good time to get back in, especially for entry level stuff. companies are pretty desperate. get in somewhere and then use that to bounce to something better thats gonna be more critical of missing career time.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:46
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Everybody says that companies are desperate right now but idk Indeed looks pretty dismal atm, and this is NYC no less. Maybe I should revive my Linkedin account, ugh. I'm in a fairly good place right now, my job is very dull and the code is fairly poo poo but the company isn't evil, management is sane, and the pay is good by my standards. Kind of a dead end in terms of career progression though.
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Oct 22, 2021 22:24
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i get at least one recruiter email every single day on linkedin
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Oct 22, 2021 22:27
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i am at #41 on my "go gently caress yourself amazon recruiter" count. 20something just this year
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Oct 22, 2021 22:52
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gonna celebrate #100 by just replying "go gently caress yourself" to it instead of the chain email
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Oct 22, 2021 22:53
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bob dobbs is dead posted:i am at #41 on my "go gently caress yourself amazon recruiter" count. 20something just this year e: oh wait, i did tell them off once, but only because the job was in the same division where i had worked before Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 23:04
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Gazpacho posted:i never found amazon's recruiting process to be so especially terrible that i would tell them off. what's the story? It's the company that's awful.
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Oct 22, 2021 23:13
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Sapozhnik posted:Everybody says that companies are desperate right now but idk Indeed looks pretty dismal atm, and this is NYC no less. Maybe I should revive my Linkedin account, ugh. i really should qualify it as companies that dont want to pay well are desperate. if they have money they can find the talent they need. the company i work for is willing to pay on the higher end to get someone entry level rather than paying on the high end for a senior. it sucks cause that means they need to be trained and remote work isnt super great for that imo, but for that entry level guy the pay is gonna be alright. idk poo poo about the market in new york. the only thing ive heard about it is people scrambling to get out of an ever inflating real-estate market, but thats from the folks who have moved to maine to inflate our housing prices so its kinda biased. tbh id be curious to know how you feel about housing/jobs in new york right now given that remote work is so much more common now. but yeah the whole "job is fine, pay is fine" thing really puts a damper on wanting to move.
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Oct 22, 2021 23:16
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kalel posted:actually I came here to ask, if I don't have any professional references am I just hosed? my situation is kind of unique in that I took a break from my career and haven't had a tech job in two years (after getting into it right out of college seven years ago). I didn't get very far the first time so I'm just applying to entry level positions right now.
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Oct 22, 2021 23:26
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| # ? May 10, 2024 03:48 |
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kalel posted:actually I came here to ask, if I don't have any professional references am I just hosed? my situation is kind of unique in that I took a break from my career and haven't had a tech job in two years (after getting into it right out of college seven years ago). I didn't get very far the first time so I'm just applying to entry level positions right now. Arcsech posted:I’ve never had anyone check references, for any job Just one hiring persons opinion: I always check references 100% of the time, but they dont have to be professional references if youre a new grad, intern, etc. That said, if you have more than 2 years of experience and no one who will vouch for working with you I have questions. Like the background check, reference checking comes when I am ready to extend an offer letter unless one of the people you think will say you're great says you're not great.
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Oct 22, 2021 23:36
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