(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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AnimeIsTrash posted:In one of his vlogs he mentions that the dalai lama was a hero to him. Lmfao jesus loving christ i missed that one somehow what a dumbass goon
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Oct 22, 2021 23:40
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| # ? May 25, 2024 12:40 |
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what is the name of the psychological phenomenon of people coming up with excuse after excuse to not do something and they are impervious to rational thought; like what we’re seeing with covid and how it seems to track politically with covid denialists. first it was no big deal then HCQ then ivermectin then natural immunity then masks don’t work and vaccines spread the disease, it’s just a never ending litany of excuses to avoid dealing with covid and reality as it is but it also seems to be very political. there has to be a name for that. denial seems to be only a component of it and there should be a political philosophy term that I don’t know. Torpor has issued a correction as of 23:54 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 23:52
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Torpor posted:what is the name of the psychological phenomenon of people coming up with excuse after excuse to not do something and they are impervious to rational thought? like what we’re seeing with covid and how it seems to track politically with covid denialists. there has to be a name for that. denial seems to be only a component of it and there should be a political philosophy term that I don’t know. Conservatism?
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Oct 22, 2021 23:54
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MLSM posted:Conservatism?  maybe right now but I think it’s more the phenomenon in general.like denial, reactionary, mental defense mechanisms? those terms aren’t wrong but don’t seem actually describe or fully encompass the issue. Torpor has issued a correction as of 23:58 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 23:55
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matt christman's thesis on the soviet union (which i think has some merit)
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Oct 23, 2021 00:27
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The Joe Stalin Megathread (which i think has some merit)
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Oct 23, 2021 01:41
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I feel like any conversation about Beria needs to take into account he replaced the even more purge happy Yagoda. What got Beria the job was the same instinct that drove Beria to choose markets and detente with the west. The dude had a preference for the path of least resistance, we don't have to resort to characterizing him as the overman who only cared about acquiring power for it's own sake.
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Oct 23, 2021 01:47
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Torpor posted:what is the name of the psychological phenomenon of people coming up with excuse after excuse to not do something and they are impervious to rational thought; like what we’re seeing with covid and how it seems to track politically with covid denialists. first it was no big deal then HCQ then ivermectin then natural immunity then masks don’t work and vaccines spread the disease, it’s just a never ending litany of excuses to avoid dealing with covid and reality as it is but it also seems to be very political. liberalism
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Oct 23, 2021 02:17
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it makes me think of capitalist realism in that it's kind of a deliberate and socially enforced delusion. it's almost always motivated reasoning too - like, people don't adopt these narratives at random. it's nearly always to justify something they want to do or happen - a pearl of sincerity ("masks are unpleasant", "I make money from that", "I don't care what happens to those people") that needs a thick shell of rationalisation built around it. ultimate expression of an individualist fetishistic and atomised society, eventually you can pick and choose what reality you accept. once you can it's just matter of building a boutique selection of justifications for nearly any action.
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Oct 23, 2021 02:29
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gradenko_2000 posted:The other side of this argument is what happened to Jeremy Corbyn where there were people literally conducting a second fake campaign that only he was being shown to make it look like his orders were being carried out, because the rest of the party were dead-eye Blairites that didn't actually want him to succeed, which is why loyalty can end up being more important than just about anything else. what the gently caress
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Oct 23, 2021 02:57
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:wait what lol yes, if I remember correctly they were sending him fake reports
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Oct 23, 2021 03:08
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Dreddout posted:I feel like any conversation about Beria needs to take into account he replaced the even more purge happy Yagoda. in terms of "absolute poo poo people", it was far worse - beria replaced yezhov, who was the all-star champion in assholishness. yagoda was before them both beria, in comparison, was just a completely mercenary ruthless motherfucker, which was a tremendous improvement over the previous guys
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Oct 23, 2021 05:37
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lollontee posted:looking ever backwards for some critical mistake in the ideology to explain away why things didnt work out the way they shouldve is incredibly stupid. certain people were in charge of the revolutionary period in the soviet union, and those people made a number incredibly stupid decisions that had long term consequences for the whole project.
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Oct 23, 2021 05:38
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:wait what then again you read poo poo like that and if the corbs had just a little of the ruthless bolshevik/IRA commander they made him to be Labour might have unfucked itself to become something to make the British establishment worried
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Oct 23, 2021 05:39
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:wait what https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-hq-used-facebook-ads-to-deceive-jeremy-corbyn-during-election-campaign-grlx75c27 archive link to get past the paywall: https://archive.md/HuMeO quote:Labour officials ran a secret operation to deceive Jeremy Corbyn at last year’s general election, micro-targeting Facebook adverts at the leader and his closest aides to convince them the party was running the campaign they demanded.
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Oct 23, 2021 05:47
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 quote:"As far as I understand nation is an American shtick" 
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Oct 23, 2021 05:55
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lollontee posted:nah, this I'm not sure I understand the point you're making -- isn't the point that the Soviets failed where the Chinese have not? Like the challenge in both Russia and China was you didn't have the fully realized capitalism Marx thought was a precondition to communism, and the Russians and Chinese first had to drag themselves into modernity, which is hard to do at such a massive scale without creating a quasi-class of the "party" (or party officials or however you want to formulate it) that isn't synonymous with the communist conception of a worker's state.
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Oct 23, 2021 06:01
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkH7otH3Bho tovarisch you didn't put the better (russian VO) version
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Oct 23, 2021 06:04
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-hq-used-facebook-ads-to-deceive-jeremy-corbyn-during-election-campaign-grlx75c27 lmao animist has issued a correction as of 09:11 on Oct 23, 2021 |
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Oct 23, 2021 09:08
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Oct 23, 2021 09:16
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-hq-used-facebook-ads-to-deceive-jeremy-corbyn-during-election-campaign-grlx75c27 the sheer level of the stitch-up against jeremy corbyn was a real eye-opener to me, honestly. i've never seen such a broad front mobilise so effectively against a political candidacy in the west in my lifetime. it was bonkers
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Oct 23, 2021 11:03
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V. Illych L. posted:the sheer level of the stitch-up against jeremy corbyn was a real eye-opener to me, honestly. i've never seen such a broad front mobilise so effectively against a political candidacy in the west in my lifetime. it was bonkers i loving hate to say it but it made it very evident that social democracy via parliament will not be allowed. he didn't even get in and the press, entire political class and entire business and establishment structure went ballistic, and haven't gotten better since. i can see why socdems go much harder once they actually try to implement things via the rules. it has happened personally for sure.
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Oct 23, 2021 11:55
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CoolCab posted:i loving hate to say it but it made it very evident that social democracy via parliament will not be allowed. he didn't even get in and the press, entire political class and entire business and establishment structure went ballistic, and haven't gotten better since. The arc of history has shown that socdem organisations go softer and meltier once they actually try to implement things via the rules as the possession of power in a liberal bourgeois democratic system hammers all the radicalism out of them. They either become actual revolutionary socialists or liberals.
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Oct 23, 2021 12:00
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i'm not convinced that's necessarily true i'm coming at this from norway, where the labour party of early 1940 was committed enough to antimilitarism that they accidentally left the country pretty open to german invasion. after the war, some Very Serious Men took over and had to choose between the West and the Soviets, and they chose the West for a variety of reasons. the choice had deep consequences, and nowadays the norwegian labour party is extremely squishy, but at the time they were a genuine and effective agent of the norwegian proletariat given their conditions - they maintained what was effectively a one-party system for decades before it started going undone in the seventies and completely transformed the country. at that point the labour party was still in many ways genuinely radical decades into their tenure, but they were also deeply compromised by their blood bond to NATO and the US. the reason that the norwegian labour party is no longer radical doesn't seem to have been much about them having power, it seems to be that they effectively completed their historic mission of abolishing the proletariat as a class in their country. unhappily they did it wedded to a global system of exploitation which would inevitably return to re-immisserate them, but it's still a genuinely dramatic change, and their cadre recruitment has deteriorated over the four generations since they assumed real power (chancers and careerists make up a discouraging proportion of their present crop). i'd argue that the latter stems from the former, though: you get chancers when your really serious political project is basically resolved and second-raters can be tolerated. nowadays, though, the forces of reaction in the west seem stronger and better-entrenched than at any point since the war. there's no counter-pole and so they don't feel that they have to offer us much of anything, up to and including basic bourgeois rights for prominent dissidents like assange or donziger. the norwegian case, though, underlines the critical importance of internationalism to a successful socialist project. abolishing the proletariat in one nation can be done by simply handing everyone a share in the exploitation of other nations, and under globalisation that's by far the easiest way to do it; that, however, cannot last.
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Oct 23, 2021 12:15
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V. Illych L. posted:it seems to be that they effectively completed their historic mission of abolishing the proletariat as a class in their country Could you expand on this? I wasn't aware wage-earning was abolished in Norway at any point, but I'm interested in learning more.
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Oct 23, 2021 13:09
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They are saying everyone in Norway is either bourgeois or labour aristocracy in a third worldist sense, living off value exploited from the third world much more than having to sell their own labour power. Reasonably sound if you don't think alienation (rather than exploitation) has revolutionary meaning or potential.
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Oct 23, 2021 13:19
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:I'm not sure I understand the point you're making -- isn't the point that the Soviets failed where the Chinese have not? Like the challenge in both Russia and China was you didn't have the fully realized capitalism Marx thought was a precondition to communism, and the Russians and Chinese first had to drag themselves into modernity, which is hard to do at such a massive scale without creating a quasi-class of the "party" (or party officials or however you want to formulate it) that isn't synonymous with the communist conception of a worker's state. that is exactly my point, that the material conditions of both the russian and the chinese revolutions made it practically impossible to reach that mythical point of capital accumulation in a reasonable period of time, and that in reaction both parties mutated into decidedly non-revolutionary state organs mainly concerned with keeping the lights on, so to say. and i still believe that we, as commies, lack a working theory of how to actually build a state that doesnt follow that same path
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Oct 23, 2021 13:55
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Oct 23, 2021 13:59
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lol
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Oct 23, 2021 14:01
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Oct 23, 2021 14:08
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Oct 23, 2021 15:32
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Falstaff posted:Could you expand on this? I wasn't aware wage-earning was abolished in Norway at any point, but I'm interested in learning more. see namesake's point - i'm operating off a pretty old-fashioned leninist interpretation here. of course there's still exploitation and wage-labour, but the proletariat as a cohesive and mobilisable political force is effectively gone through externalised hyperexploitation and extensive participation in housing markets etc; the brunt of the misery, and the natural pressures towards organisation are all basically gone
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Oct 23, 2021 16:10
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V. Illych L. posted:see namesake's point - i'm operating off a pretty old-fashioned leninist interpretation here. of course there's still exploitation and wage-labour, but the proletariat as a cohesive and mobilisable political force is effectively gone through externalised hyperexploitation and extensive participation in housing markets etc; the brunt of the misery, and the natural pressures towards organisation are all basically gone not criticizing you, to be clear. I'm Latin American and I honestly think this argument is just bullshit for the life of me, I can't understand this attitude. there's something in some third-worldism commentaries that seems a deeply unconscious irony to the problem it tries to address: there's simply no revolutionary potential anymore here so let's just import from where things are worse what the gently caress. A norwegian worker is a worker too, and is worthy of all my solidarity as any other one. Their conditions might be much better than mine? sure! but a central african or bangladeshi worker can say the same of me, and thus we are all in a race to the bottom if we try doing things from this angle. The only practical struggle one can engage in is the one that is present in their own context, because it's the one you can do something real about it
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Oct 23, 2021 17:34
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lollontee posted:that is exactly my point, that the material conditions of both the russian and the chinese revolutions made it practically impossible to reach that mythical point of capital accumulation in a reasonable period of time, and that in reaction both parties mutated into decidedly non-revolutionary state organs mainly concerned with keeping the lights on, so to say. and i still believe that we, as commies, lack a working theory of how to actually build a state that doesnt follow that same path p sure part of a sound theory would involve not having every party initiative crushed by the forces of capitalism and not needing to divert all the state butter production to gun production to defend against the forces of capitalism
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Oct 23, 2021 17:41
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The Voice of Labor posted:p sure part of a sound theory would involve not having every party initiative crushed by the forces of capitalism and not needing to divert all the state butter production to gun production to defend against the forces of capitalism and why is that?
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Oct 23, 2021 18:05
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dead gay comedy forums posted:not criticizing you, to be clear. I'm Latin American and I honestly think this argument is just bullshit yes, i agree, i'm just talking about the de-radicalisation of the norwegian labour movement. i'm involved in left-wing politics in norway and it's very much focussed on trying to harness local issues to left-wing ends. however, there's no mass base for really radical politics and that's not just because being in government makes you part of the establishment
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Oct 23, 2021 18:19
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wrong thread
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Oct 23, 2021 18:24
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lollontee posted:that is exactly my point, that the material conditions of both the russian and the chinese revolutions made it practically impossible to reach that mythical point of capital accumulation in a reasonable period of time, and that in reaction both parties mutated into decidedly non-revolutionary state organs mainly concerned with keeping the lights on, so to say. and i still believe that we, as commies, lack a working theory of how to actually build a state that doesnt follow that same path I don't know if that point is mythical -- Marx clearly thought that Germany was just about there while he was writing, and (I guess in Lenin's defense) having continental Europe go communist shortly after the Russian revolution would have at least given them a path towards modernizing Russia without having to build literally everything in-house, which would likely have done a lot towards making and keeping the state and party an expression of the people. and FWIW the Chinese communist dream isn't dead yet. I'll admit it's kind of a long shot, but the idea is that you let capitalism modernize the country but you keep it on a leash, then as it enters its terminal crisis you get the state to lop of the head and let everyone know it's communism time. It's fair to be incredibly skeptical of this actually working but at least that's the theory. Come to think of it a good example might be Cuba, who seized the infrastructure (largely American) capitalism built, and considering that they've been under the boot of the global hegemon since the beginning have done incredibly well.
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Oct 23, 2021 18:27
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lol that the secret to socialism is to set up a state that's so close to the heart of empire it can't reach it to scratch it. like cuba is the a tick nestled inbetween the shoulder blades of america
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Oct 23, 2021 18:32
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| # ? May 25, 2024 12:40 |
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Tommy Douglas, the political leader who introduced Canada's first public healthcare system in the province of Saskatchewan had the entire province's doctors (and nurses? I don't remember) go on strike when he implemented it. The government had to bring in scab doctors from other provinces to continue healthcare services. Anything that's seen as left-wing and radical is going to get tremendous amount of pushback. Winning the first fight helps a lot for everyone else down the road though, but it's the hardest fight.
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Oct 23, 2021 18:33
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