(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
|
vyelkin posted:i finally remembered the thing I was going to post in response to this post. one possible name for the thing you are describing is oppositional defiant disorder which psychologists think is something that only children have but which is basically "no gently caress you dad i won't do what you tell me" as your defining personality trait and maybe covid will finally convince psychologists that a large proportion of adults are also like this lead exposure!
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 18:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 09:20 |
|
|
KaptainKrunk posted:Tooze, Piketty, and Blyth are all doyens of left-liberalism. When they go beyond "This is how everyone is loving up" and actually start recommending poo poo is when you stop listening. I like bylth because he has pithy one liners like the hamptons aren’t a defensible position but yeah good advice
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 18:29
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1452068835834712071
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 18:47
|
|
|
KaptainKrunk posted:Tooze, Piketty, and Blyth are all doyens of left-liberalism. When they go beyond "This is how everyone is loving up" and actually start recommending poo poo is when you stop listening. Graeber was an anarchist no idea what Ha-Joon Chang is other than "heterodox"
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 18:50
|
|
|
https://i.imgur.com/CawuYT7.gifv
Homeless Friend has issued a correction as of 19:25 on Oct 24, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 19:22
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 19:25
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 19:27
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 19:29
|
|
|
mf'er i put they they instead of yes they. whatever. gently caress screen2gif
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 19:29
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 19:56
|
|
|
lol free larry ffs
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 19:57
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 20:08
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 20:43
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 20:58
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 21:18
|
|
|
MLSM posted:yeah, are xi’s governance of China books are good? theyre pretty boring and procedural for the most part
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 23:09
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 23:10
|
|
|
I thought this stupid pitbull thing was dead. It's been over a decade people, move on already. Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 23:53 on Oct 24, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 23:49
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 00:54
|
|
|
I have been thinking about & laughing at Patrick McGoohan saying "I will gently caress you up larry" all day
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 01:08
|
|
|
lately I’ve seen multiple indigenous writers/commentators saying stuff to the effect of “actually Marx studied indigenous American culture and just wrote down what he found, indigenous people had been living in socialist societies for years, Marxism is just another thing white men stole from indigenous people” and I do not know what to make of it. it feels misguided to me since (afaik) Marxism was born out of an analysis of industrial economies/finance capitalism and I doubt indigenous people were writing much about those topics anyone else seen this? what’s the deal
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 02:17
|
|
|
theyre dumbasses making poo poo up for online lib clout, op
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 02:19
|
|
|
Pentecoastal Elites posted:theyre dumbasses making poo poo up for online lib clout, op that’s what I assumed but they call themselves communists which did a short circuit on my simple brain
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 02:21
|
|
|
indigi posted:lately I’ve seen multiple indigenous writers/commentators saying stuff to the effect of “actually Marx studied indigenous American culture and just wrote down what he found, indigenous people had been living in socialist societies for years, Marxism is just another thing white men stole from indigenous people” and I do not know what to make of it. supposedly david graeber's new (and final) book makes a case kinda along those lines, or if not "indigenous people were socialists" then at least "indigenous people inspired the enlightenment" here's a passage about it from a recent review of the book that we talked about in one of the history threads: quote:The Dawn of Everything is framed by an account of what the authors call the “indigenous critique.” In a remarkable chapter, they describe the encounter between early French arrivals in North America, primarily Jesuit missionaries, and a series of Native intellectuals—individuals who had inherited a long tradition of political conflict and debate and who had thought deeply and spoke incisively on such matters as “generosity, sociability, material wealth, crime, punishment and liberty.”
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 02:21
|
|
|
lollontee posted:at least for me, the purpose of reading *sniff* ideology and debating it with you galls is in the pursuit of figuring what the gently caress am i going to do about the imminent collapse, in places where people whom i consider family are currently living. what is to be done? what is the path to avoid the terrible mistakes of the past? whats coming next is a fascist uprising with the death throes of the american hegemony and collapse of the biosphere. with any luck most of the worst fash hogs are too busy coughing on each other at applebee's to live to that and it won't be as bad as it would otherwise be, but don't expect that to do all the heavy lifting. what our job is now is to educate ourselves, organize and get to know our neighbors and other leftists, raise the class consciousness of everyone who trusts you enough that they will listen to you and be open to it, and through organizing and educating your friends and family, and building trust in your communities as a person and a group of people that are unflinchingly on the side of them and the working class, you can do work right now to make that fascist uprising less painful and literally save lives. its doubtful that the US or much of the west really is going to have the communist revolution necessary for its continued survival anytime soon, so it is important to keep in mind that you can do good and impactful work that improves and saves lives even if we never see revolution in our lifetime. have hope that it could--and if it does your work will help it happen--but there's a whole gamut of useful and positive outcomes between here and full, successful revolution, not the least of which that yes, fascist nightmare garbage is going to increase and get more severe, but you, personally, can make it less bad.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 02:22
|
|
|
vyelkin posted:supposedly david graeber's new (and final) book makes a case kinda along those lines, or if not "indigenous people were socialists" then at least "indigenous people inspired the enlightenment" that argument makes way more sense to me. I could even see the argument that some indigenous societies/cultures were socialist (or socialish at least) having merit, partially since that word can mean basically anything anymore. it’s the specific “Marxism is just cultural appropriation from indigenous people” that strikes me as odd
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 02:26
|
|
|
the indigenous criticism of Marx has always been about Eurocentrism, it’s extremely weird that anyone would now suggest he “studied indigenous Americans” and not, you know, the industrial Europe he lived in and wrote about
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 02:28
|
|
|
indigi posted:that argument makes way more sense to me. I could even see the argument that some indigenous societies/cultures were socialist (or socialish at least) having merit, partially since that word can mean basically anything anymore. it’s the specific “Marxism is just cultural appropriation from indigenous people” that strikes me as odd yeah that part seems strange to me too. i will probably buy graeber's book and i'm open to the idea that indigenous ideas really did influence the enlightenment, which you could see as a direct antecedent to the development of Marxism, but that doesn't mean we should loop all the way back around to reinventing the noble
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 02:29
|
|
|
Pentecoastal Elites posted:theyre dumbasses making poo poo up for online lib clout, op
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 03:02
|
|
|
the loving fucker just went and finally said the thing jesus christ he just went and blurted it out I have his book and the thing that really came out to me is that, aside from having a massive chunk of contemporary, post-50s national accounting innovations that validated a lot of 19th century political economy (besides our german boys), is that there wasn't anything new there. the book itself is rather thin, like a little more than a hundred pages, and the rest of it is just reams of data and methodology so I went to annoy a younger professor, a cool guy who was teaching "contemporary economic thought", the last discipline of the political economy section (or "heterodox economics" if you are with the mainstream crowd) of my uni's curriculum, because I didn't understand why this guy was getting raves and all (this was nine years ago, I am an idiot now but I was far worse). Prof helpfully explains to me that the guy did a marxism while completely oblivious to it, and since Marx didn't have R, he gets to show mainstream economics a point that Marx argued without any of the luggage. I asked him if it was that bad and he says, "if you are in the academic spotlight of mainstream economics with a PhD, you literally cannot be marxist at that point. Nobody can get there being one" what piketty quickly realized is that he was being promoted by an outsider crowd and for someone featured in the economist magazine, he was canny enough to not say anything. While being boosted in the Guardian, Libération, etc etc for its critique of capitalism (and thus some association with Marx), he goes "well it's interesting hahaha amirite but my work is more empirical!". Then motherfucking Yanis Varoufakis just loving goes and tear him a new rear end in a top hat, just chews him out. piketty quickly goes out of his way to say how not-Marxist and innovating and completely different and superior his work is than Marx lmao
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 04:51
|
|
|
roflmaoo
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 04:53
|
|
|
There is a concept of "primitive communism" elucidated in Marxist writing (I suppose more precisely by Engels in "The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State") but I don't think Marx/Engels went as far as to dedicate significant amounts of time/effort to studying indigenous communities in the way that indigi's post seems to allude to.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 06:37
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 06:44
|
|
|
vyelkin posted:i finally remembered the thing I was going to post in response to this post. one possible name for the thing you are describing is oppositional defiant disorder which psychologists think is something that only children have but which is basically "no gently caress you dad i won't do what you tell me" as your defining personality trait and maybe covid will finally convince psychologists that a large proportion of adults are also like this
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 06:46
|
|
|
vyelkin posted:i finally remembered the thing I was going to post in response to this post. one possible name for the thing you are describing is oppositional defiant disorder which psychologists think is something that only children have but which is basically "no gently caress you dad i won't do what you tell me" as your defining personality trait and maybe covid will finally convince psychologists that a large proportion of adults are also like this its just fandom op
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 11:36
|
|
|
croup coughfield posted:its just fandom op i mean this is definitely true but i do think there's a bit more to it than that, even trump got booed when he told his fans to get the vaccine
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 13:18
|
|
|
dead gay comedy forums posted:Then motherfucking Yanis Varoufakis just loving goes and tear him a new rear end in a top hat, just chews him out. piketty quickly goes out of his way to say how not-Marxist and innovating and completely different and superior his work is than Marx lmao Say what you will about Varoufakis, but my God the man was born with the posters gene.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 18:56
|
|
|
indigi posted:lately I’ve seen multiple indigenous writers/commentators saying stuff to the effect of “actually Marx studied indigenous American culture and just wrote down what he found, indigenous people had been living in socialist societies for years, Marxism is just another thing white men stole from indigenous people” and I do not know what to make of it. in addition to what's been posting, there was a very dumb (imo) debate during the cold war about whether the Inca were communist because of the intense control the sapa inca had over things like food supply, centralized storage, and the mita system (corvée labour basically). people get confused by communal living and communism pretty easily it seems dead gay comedy forums posted:the loving fucker just went and finally said the thing thanks for posting this, I kept thinking "there's no way that he's just rehashing marx right, like there's something else here." and I think the something else is just way more data than anyone else has bothered to lack at. which I think is good! someone's got to do the work, but man the actual conclusions are quite a thing edit: also I appreciate someone who has good footnotes and lol: quote:Taking students further from capital as ‘produced means of production’ to Karl Marx’s idea that capital is, besides steam engines and harvesters, a ‘social relation’ between people, requires a degree of deprogramming that most lecturers have no time to effect. and a great conclusion quote:Reading Capital in the Twenty-First Century reminded me of how the cause of egalitarianism is often undermined by its most famous, mainstream proponents. John Rawls, despite the elegance and sophistication of his ‘veil of ignorance’, did untold damage to the egalitarian ‘cause’ by offering a static theory of justice that crumbled the moment a talented libertarian took a shot at it. Professor Piketty’s book will, I am convinced, prove even easier prey for today’s, or tomorrow’s, equivalent of Robert Nozick. And when this happens, the multitude that are now celebrating Capital in the Twenty-First Century as a staunch ally in the war against inequality will run for cover. Dreylad has issued a correction as of 19:19 on Oct 25, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 19:01
|
|
|
piketty addresses marx in the earlier chapters of his book, but he has a very formalist, anti-dialectical view of marx's scientific project, so he seems to see it as a philosophical critique leading up to hypothetic-deductive modelling rather than seeing the hypothetical-deductive element as part of the philosophical critique. when marx runs into modelling issues (especially considering the emergence of entirely new markets, which tbf is not totally unreasonable) piketty sees this as a refutation of the hypothetic-deductive part of marx's project and thus he assumes that the philosophical grounding must also be false. this is both convenient for him intellectually and also very handy career-wise, because he then has engaged substantively enough that he gets away with it but he also doesn't have to properly address the deeper issues at play regardless, demonstrating empirically that r>g is very useful to the left and piketty has done us a great service in undergoing the legwork on this matter.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 20:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 09:20 |
|
|
likewise piketty's finding that the real rate of return on investment has remained generally stable at around 4% is also quite handy, as it demonstrates what needs to happen in order to keep inequality from structurally increasing and thus puts the lie to social liberal protestations that they actually don't like inequality, they just don't want to commit to economic redistribution
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2021 20:07
|
|