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Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo
Galleys are not just good but ludicrously op atm, if you want to do an achievement that needs navy.

Spam them far beyond your force limit. It costs next-to-nothing and your garbage fleet will destroy everyone.

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Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

What are some pro Re Reconquista tips?

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
Meiou and taxes is so dense. Can't make head or tails of it.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

It is an accurate state level simulation of the 15th century, where you have no loving idea whether your actions are effective, or even accomplishing anything at all

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
Don't get me wrong. I got somewhat decent at 2.5.2

This 3.0 investment thing is increasingly bizarre and the UI in all the videos is radically different from their final product. I suppose fighting the UI is a cool way to represent fighting the state as the executive.

Promethium
Dec 31, 2009
Dinosaur Gum

Jay Rust posted:

What are some pro Re Reconquista tips?

Assuming you have the Golden Century mission tree, and the usual Castile-Portugal alliance happens:

Focus military points, naturally. Start by rivalling then eating Tlemcen, take as much as you can and release Algiers as a vassal to save on admin costs. Let the pretender crisis happen, at worst you get a mediocre heir from it but it's fine. Ally Morocco to unlock the "Prepare for War" mission, then build up your army and scornfully insult Castile to get a general with 100 tradition. Then take some loans and hire whatever mercs are available, and put enough troops on the African side to be able to siege down Ceuta. Declare on Portugal with Ceuta as the war goal as soon as England will not join the war (because they're fighting France). This should pull in Castile. If you can get Morocco to join the war then all the better, but it is a completely winnable war on your own.

Once you have sieged down Ceuta, have those troops join your main army at Jabal Tariq and wait for the enemy to siege Malaqah. Don't overcommit or try to siege down provinces in the early part of the war, just keep beating them on the mountain fort until their armies are broken. When they are no longer able to reinforce, go ahead and occupy enough to get a good peace deal. You don't want the war to take too long because you'll be bleeding loans every month while the mercs are active. Make sure you get La Mancha (the gold province), and ideally also Caceres (to release Leon) as well as the two Portuguese provinces that you need to form Andalusia. You can be very deep in debt and still come out fine because of gold development.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
Can I upgrade to Spain and still form the Roman Empire?

Box wine
Apr 6, 2005

ah crap
Yes the Roman Empire is one of those nations that doesn't play by the normal end game tag rules.

Groke
Jul 27, 2007
New Adventures In Mom Strength

Box wine posted:

Yes the Roman Empire is one of those nations that doesn't play by the normal end game tag rules.

Yah, the only tags that can't form the Roman Empire (if they otherwise meet the requirements) are the HRE and the Pope. I.e. you need all the territory, be Christian or pagan, and not be a horde (although you can spend the whole game until then as a horde, then reform into not a horde, then form the Roman Empire).

This means that, yes, you can have a Tengri just-stopped-being-a-horde Roman Empire. Or a Fetishist African one.

(You CAN be the Holy Roman Emperor and re-form the Roman Empire as long as you haven't pushed the final reform.)

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
I ended up forming Spain but keeping the Aragon traditions and Missions for all the claims and stuff. Was that a bad move?

Groke
Jul 27, 2007
New Adventures In Mom Strength
No; unless you're planning to go colonial in a big way the Aragonese ideas are fine.

And if you form Spain as Aragon you are stuck with the (awesome) Aragonese mission tree anyway. Unless you use one weird trick.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

Groke posted:

No; unless you're planning to go colonial in a big way the Aragonese ideas are fine.

And if you form Spain as Aragon you are stuck with the (awesome) Aragonese mission tree anyway. Unless you use one weird trick.

The Aragonese Mission tree is what I wanted, to get the remaining 3-4 provinces for Consulate of the Sea and then working on forming the Roman Empire.

Man, you need A LOT of Provinces to become the Roman Empire. Gonna have to PU or fight my best bro Austria at some point since they now control a huge chunk of the Balkans.

Groke
Jul 27, 2007
New Adventures In Mom Strength
Yeah, I just recently formed Rome for the first (and probably only) time myself; did it as France (ending up as the Revolutionary Roman Republic with Napoleon in charge).

Key element is to secure Byzantium early and thereby cock-blocking the Ottos.

Groke
Jul 27, 2007
New Adventures In Mom Strength
Basically: Aragon if you want to focus on Europe and the Mediterranean, Castile if you prefer a colonial game.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

Groke posted:

Yeah, I just recently formed Rome for the first (and probably only) time myself; did it as France (ending up as the Revolutionary Roman Republic with Napoleon in charge).

Key element is to secure Byzantium early and thereby cock-blocking the Ottos.

Yup, that's what I did. I got a mega fleet that crushes everything that dares step foot in the Meditteranean and Ottoman have been pretty crushed. The problem slowing me down is Coalitions in Europe. I've been diplo-vassalizing some OPMs while waiting for the Agressive Expansion to lower.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo
Aragon might be the funnest for forming Rome. You get the iberian PUs, you get Naples, you get the mission that lets you snag Tunis before they ally the Ottomans. Not to mention, it's in a very good position to no-cb Byzantium for vassaldom and block the Ottos in the cradle.

Rynoto
Apr 27, 2009
It doesn't help that I'm fat as fuck, so my face shouldn't be shown off in the first place.

Groke posted:

Basically: Aragon if you want to focus on Europe and the Mediterranean, Castile if you prefer a colonial game.

Portugal if you want to do both :getin:

Mr. Grinch
Jul 2, 2007

They say that the Grinch's small heart grew three sizes that day.
Finally giving Leviathan a shot now that theyve announced a rebalance to Concentrate Dev/Pillage Capital...is there any point to the expand infrastructure thing? Is it only used for stacking Manu's in a single province/tall play?
Or Centralize State? I remember reading that the math on it didnt really justify reducing the gov cost when you could instead expand your cap

Red Bones
Aug 9, 2012

"I think he's a bad enough person to stay ghost through his sheer love of child-killing."

Mr. Grinch posted:

Finally giving Leviathan a shot now that theyve announced a rebalance to Concentrate Dev/Pillage Capital...is there any point to the expand infrastructure thing? Is it only used for stacking Manu's in a single province/tall play?
Or Centralize State? I remember reading that the math on it didnt really justify reducing the gov cost when you could instead expand your cap

Normally you can only have one manufactory in a province, but they added some additional buildings that take up the manufactory slot but give stuff like +siege defence or +manpower or +governing cap. So I think the main purpose of expand infrastructure is if you want to have more than one of those buildings that sits in the manufactory slot.

There's a few provinces where it's a really good spot for a chokepoint fort, but it also has a good trade good (e.g. the mountain province north of Milan that produces silk), so I guess in situations like that you might use expand infr. to have a manufactory and the +siege defence building in the same province.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

I don't think I have ever built the defensive manufactory building. It just seems completely useless because by the time I can afford one the only enemy countries which are strong enough to warrant the extra defense are easily strong enough to not care about +1% attrition for a few months.

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

I’ve had Ethiopia games and Kongo games where the only way to win the eventual hellwar versus the ottomans was by having them spend their manpower besieging the forts around the northern end of the Red Sea

Asehujiko
Apr 6, 2011
The only real use I've found for Expand Infrastructure is when playing Anbennar; it lets you put a mage tower somewhere without missing out on a regular manufactory if you don't have a gold province handy.

Rynoto
Apr 27, 2009
It doesn't help that I'm fat as fuck, so my face shouldn't be shown off in the first place.
Ramparts are pretty drat good when stacked on mountains and scorched earth.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I got really lucky in my newest England game. I surrendered Maine up without a fight, got a decent heir about a couple months before the War of the Roses fired, and then France lost a war with Savoy who decided to both give me back Maine and break Orleans from French control, allowing for an easy conquest. I could probably even take France right now. Man, why doesn't this ever happen in Ironman?

Sri.Theo
Apr 16, 2008

Rynoto posted:

Ramparts are pretty drat good when stacked on mountains and scorched earth.

Doesn’t the AI have a really low limit on attrition so lots of these buildings/ideas don’t make sense?

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

Related: Are the naval gun building with +5% attrition doing anything against the AI fleets?

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Attrition for the AI always seems to be a complete crapshoot, and I've resigned myself to not even consider it a possibility anymore.

I guess they've all but removed it as a factor, so the AI doesn't kill itself by sieging down forts with 100K infantry stacks.

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

I think the ai doesn’t cheat with attrition, if I remember the old “here is how the ai cheats” Wiz post correctly

Promethium
Dec 31, 2009
Dinosaur Gum
Naval batteries do work, but as far as I know AI doesn't take normal naval attrition from other sources (which I guess is why I've never gotten the first circumnavigation achievement).

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

Found the Wiz post, it’s from like eight years ago so uhhh yikes, who knows how accurate it is. Worth reposting though

quote:

I've seen a lot of misconceptions here and elsewhere about what advantages the AI gets over the player (besides the ones rolled into 'Bonuses' and 'Lucky Nations', which are explained through tooltips in the game options menu), so I thought I'd make a post and clear up in which exact ways the AI 'cheats'. Some of these cheats are crutches that it is my goal to eliminate, while others are more or less necessary for gameplay or performance reasons (for instance the +1 diplomat is necessary because the AI only handles diplomacy about once a month and therefore can't do the cancel diplomat, use diplomat, resend diplomat thing players do).

First, let me dispel some common misconceptions:
- The AI does not cheat with dice rolls, not even Lucky Nations. If you believe this to be the case, you are experiencing confirmation bias (ie you notice the times it rolls well a lot more than you notice the times you yourself do).
- The AI does not cheat with land attrition. No, really. Not even a little bit.
- The AI does not get extra manpower or free units.
- The AI does not cheat with sieges.

Now, a list of how it actually cheats:
- AI does not get naval attrition. It does avoid going too far out of range with most of its naval operations though, to somewhat simulate it.
- AI can see through fog of war, but pretends it can't in most cases.
- AI gets +1 diplomat that it reserves for non-maintained actions because the diplomatic AI 'ticks' means that it can't do the recall-send strategy that players do with maintained diplomats.
- AI gets +1 free leader pool because it's not nearly as good as a human at planning out when it will need leaders and needs to keep them on hand always.
- AI gets less native uprisings, because it is less than optimal at keeping its colonies garrisoned.
- AI does not pay diplomatic points for military access relations, as the slowness of ai diplo ticks makes it unable to request/cancel access the way a human does.

Finally, for the sake of fairness, here is how the human cheats:
- Humans cannot get inherited by other countries, in a PU or elsewise. They can still end up in a personal union under another country.
- Humans can save and reload when things go badly (unless you're playing ironman).
- Humans have a human brain.

On balance, AI isn't that big a cheater is it?

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

quote:

- AI can see through fog of war, but pretends it can't in most cases.
What happened to this? Can we bring this back again? Or was it never true?

The AI reacts to your movements in the fog of war all the time, in an extremely obvious manner.

AnoHito
May 8, 2014

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

What happened to this? Can we bring this back again? Or was it never true?

The AI reacts to your movements in the fog of war all the time, in an extremely obvious manner.

I think the way it works is that if it has seen the unit recently, it’ll track it through fog of war until the AI decides to “forget” that it exists.

Generally speaking, it’s pretty obvious when they’re using it to cheat, but the point is that they don’t always use it to cheat.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

I guess when using the loosest definition of "most cases" it might be true, but you tend to see it multiple times every war. Doesn't matter how often they don't cheat when the times they do cheat are so noticeable and annoying to deal with.

Tahirovic
Feb 25, 2009
Fun Shoe
On the plus side you can really abuse it at times by moving troops in the fog that it does see, that will never really interfere with that war. But the AI sees them moving and acts on it.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Tahirovic posted:

On the plus side you can really abuse it at times by moving troops in the fog that it does see, that will never really interfere with that war. But the AI sees them moving and acts on it.
Wait, what?

Tahirovic
Feb 25, 2009
Fun Shoe
At times the AI reacts to armies it is not supposed to see, but this being a bad AI it reacts bad and you can abuse that to take large stacks out of a war.
It will prepare to intercept armies coming out of the fog, armies it doesn't see and can't reach. I've had some funny situations against the Ottomans with that.

I kept moving a small stack back and forth and they would send two stacks to a possible interception point. Then I moved my bait army back and their stacks tried to get back to the actual fighting. Rinse repeat. 2x 24k stacks from the Ottomans kept busy buy a 8k stack for pretty much the entire war. Bonus points?
I am sure my army was in fog of war, it was in my core territory behind 5 or 6 rows of forts, because that was an army I was newly building.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo
I don’t even care if the AI cheats. They are idiots. No strategy game more complex than chess can beat a human on equal footing.

Also lol that so many people think the AI cheats forts when in fact no one including the devs remember all the fort rules

Tahirovic
Feb 25, 2009
Fun Shoe
I think the cheating forts thing comes mostly from coastal forts which you should never ever build. Fort rules are totally broken if the fort borders a sea zone.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

Fort rules are upheld for coastal forts, it's just that sea zones are treated the same as land provinces when it comes to ZoC calculations. And since sea zones are so large, this can be used to bypass forts in some scenarios.

The AI has actually cheated forts at various points in the past, but those were relatively rare bugs that eventually got patched. And there have been other exploity stuff that both the player and AI could do. Such as being able to queue up a long string of movement while the enemy had their forts unmaintained, and then being allowed to continue that movement even after the forts were up and running. You saw the AI do this from time to time, just casually marching past all of your forts because they instantly saw they were open and queued a long movement before you could staff them.

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AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Tahirovic posted:

At times the AI reacts to armies it is not supposed to see, but this being a bad AI it reacts bad and you can abuse that to take large stacks out of a war.
It will prepare to intercept armies coming out of the fog, armies it doesn't see and can't reach. I've had some funny situations against the Ottomans with that.

I kept moving a small stack back and forth and they would send two stacks to a possible interception point. Then I moved my bait army back and their stacks tried to get back to the actual fighting. Rinse repeat. 2x 24k stacks from the Ottomans kept busy buy a 8k stack for pretty much the entire war. Bonus points?
I am sure my army was in fog of war, it was in my core territory behind 5 or 6 rows of forts, because that was an army I was newly building.
Wow. I doubt I'll ever try to do this myself but its really funny to know that its a thing.

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