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If forum & thread bans were a replacement for long probes & bans, why do other subforums keep using long probes & bans? It sounds more accurate to say, forum & thread bans were a mitigation for the fact that D&D moderators have such poor judgement that their decisions shouldn't be made binding on the rest of the forums. Seems like solving that problem would fix a lot of things up and then you wouldn't need forum & thread bans anymore.
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Oct 26, 2021 03:37
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30.5 Days posted:If forum & thread bans were a replacement for long probes & bans, why do other subforums keep using long probes & bans? It sounds more accurate to say, forum & thread bans were a mitigation for the fact that D&D moderators have such poor judgement that their decisions shouldn't be made binding on the rest of the forums. Seems like solving that problem would fix a lot of things up and then you wouldn't need forum & thread bans anymore. Other forums do use thread bans and forums bans. Some posters are terrible in one forum while being well behaved in another so getting rid of them from the forum they wont behave in is a a decent idea. Some have been forum banned multiple times from differing forums which usually leads to long probes or straight perma'ed
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Oct 26, 2021 03:55
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How many posters are actually forum-banned from DnD? I don't keep track but if I had to guess, maybe a dozen or a little more than that?
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Oct 26, 2021 04:02
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Delete the forum. I genuinely believe the mods are doing their best, but a big loud batch of posters went rotten right under their noses and you know what they say about bad apples.
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Oct 26, 2021 04:19
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Permaban anyone who has ever been a D&D mod or IK.
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Oct 26, 2021 04:21
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Main Paineframe posted:Forumbans were something the admins were actively pushing as a replacement for long probes and bans. The idea was that it was better to deprive a single thread or forum of someone's posting indefinitely than to deprive the entire site of their posting for a couple weeks. I think that's a failed project. In part because it puts the mods in the position of having to keep a poorly documented list of unpeople, and in part because it requires punishing otherwise-harmless posting. Both of those things feel like personal grudges, even if they aren't meant to be. It also means it's hard to figure out why someone got probed; Bucky Fullminster copped a punishment for violating his forumban for spamming his blog and it started a whole page derail, while just saying they were probing him for spamming his stupid-rear end blog again wouldn't have caused nearly as much fuss. I can't stand ze pollack for example, and I know they're forumbanned atm. But if they post something harmless/funny/interesting, where's the harm in leaving it alone?
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Oct 26, 2021 04:26
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I think thread banning and forum banning are great tools. They removed some of the most toxic posters and have made DnD more readable. I actually think things in the forum have gotten better since the last feedback thread. My suggestion for this forum (and America) is don't keep people who don't like each other together. Here's what I posted previously Ither posted:I think this is the solution. Ither posted:In addition to each team having a thread, create a rules light battle thread, where the posters who love to fight can get there rocks off.
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Oct 26, 2021 13:01
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thatfatkid posted:Actually allow debate and discussion. Disagreeing with sabre rattling propaganda isn't genocide denial, especially when the associated press and US don't even describe what's happening in xinjiang as genocide anymore. (bit hard to with the uyghur population actually growing and their life expectancy and quality of life improving) How is probating for 'sick beliefs' debating or discussing?
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Oct 26, 2021 13:32
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thatfatkid posted:Actually allow debate and discussion. Disagreeing with sabre rattling propaganda isn't genocide denial, especially when the associated press and US don't even describe what's happening in xinjiang as genocide anymore. (bit hard to with the uyghur population actually growing and their life expectancy and quality of life improving) The fact this was probated for "doubl[ing] down on your sick beliefs" is absolutely the reason you shouldn't be a mod CommieGIR. Tons of people, even in the QCS thread, have given perfectly reasonable positions that you for some reason don't want to accept as within your overton window. Rather than engaging with posters that don't follow your mainstream (even if their posts seem targeted at annoying you!) you immediately rush to the mod buttons. This is exactly the behavior that makes me avoid D&D most of the time now, since who the gently caress knows what opinion you'll decide is sick and ding people for.
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Oct 26, 2021 13:48
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D&D mods just keep giving us gift-wrapped cases of them being incompetent partisan buffoons, just what will it take for this to get acted on?
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Oct 26, 2021 13:53
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Love that the feedback thread gets the attention of people that never post in D&D coming in to say how terrible D&D is.
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Oct 26, 2021 13:58
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Skyl3lazer posted:The fact this was probated for "doubl[ing] down on your sick beliefs" is absolutely the reason you shouldn't be a mod CommieGIR. Tons of people, even in the QCS thread, have given perfectly reasonable positions that you for some reason don't want to accept as within your overton window. Rather than engaging with posters that don't follow your mainstream (even if their posts seem targeted at annoying you!) you immediately rush to the mod buttons. This is exactly the behavior that makes me avoid D&D most of the time now, since who the gently caress knows what opinion you'll decide is sick and ding people for. Ah yes, the "Mass Incarceration and forced integration is not Genocide" excuse. If you really want to defend that, go for it, but honestly I don't see a D&D or even a Political Forum where defending that is going to be acceptable or encouraged.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:00
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CommieGIR posted:Ah yes, the "Mass Incarceration and forced integration is not Genocide" excuse. If you really want to defend that, go for it, but honestly I don't see a D&D or even a Political Forum where defending that is going to be acceptable or encouraged. Honestly I'm not going to go in to it here because you'll end up finding some reason to probate me, but the fact that the AP and whitehouse have both stopped calling it a genocide probably means the issue isn't as cut and dry as you want it to be. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Love that the feedback thread gets the attention of people that never post in D&D coming in to say how terrible D&D is. Have you considered part of the reason for this is that a lot of people want to post in the serious political forum, but either can't or don't feel comfortable doing so?
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Oct 26, 2021 14:04
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Skyl3lazer posted:Honestly I'm not going to go in to it here because you'll end up finding some reason to probate me, but the fact that the AP and whitehouse have both stopped calling it a genocide probably means the issue isn't as cut and dry as you want it to be. The Whitehouse is also not calling the mass incarceration at the border genocide, but effectively that is what is happening. Are you guys really going to define everything by whether or not the White House calls it that, or based on what it actually appears to be? And as for the AP: https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c  Hmmmmm, sure let's not use the word genocide, but this is literally a crime against humanity that aligns WITH genocide.
CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 14:06
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Love that the feedback thread gets the attention of people that never post in D&D coming in to say how terrible D&D is. Except landlords. Or anti-Maduro Venezuelans. Or police reformist instead of police abolitionists. Or Economists.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:07
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Skyl3lazer posted:Honestly I'm not going to go in to it here because you'll end up finding some reason to probate me, but the fact that the AP and whitehouse have both stopped calling it a genocide probably means the issue isn't as cut and dry as you want it to be. I think your making an excuse. Post all you want. Just don't be an rear end in a top hat or deny genocides. Like what kind of thin skin excuse do you have to have to be afraid of posting unless you're just a contentious rear end in a top hat with terrible opinions. I've been probed and banned for terrible reasons in the past. I think I got swept up in one of the terrible mod purges at one point. I'm still here posting. What's your excuse.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:08
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CommieGIR posted:Ah yes, the "Mass Incarceration and forced integration is not Genocide" excuse. If you really want to defend that, go for it, but honestly I don't see a D&D or even a Political Forum where defending that is going to be acceptable or encouraged. Nobody is saying that mass detentions aren't happening. They're saying the coverage is slanted to exacerbate the domestic issues of their new cold war opponents. There's a very long history of deceptive western media coverage of communist-party controlled countries like Cuba and Vietnam and the USSR.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:09
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Just chiming in to say that for all the D&D mod crew likes calling other people genocide deniers, it's wild that Handsome Ralph is still a mod after that whole kick they went on of attempting to ban the term "concentration camps" from discussion of border detention facilities in the US. My only advice is to clean house with the current mod crew and to also end the nonsense of shutting down any discussion of US News in the US News thread by telling people to take it to a containment thread whenever it's a topic that makes the mods uncomfortable.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:11
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CommieGIR posted:The Whitehouse is also not calling the mass incarceration at the border genocide, but effectively that is what is happening. Are you guys really going to define everything by whether or not the White House calls it that, or based on what it actually appears to be?
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Oct 26, 2021 14:14
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Nobody is saying that mass detentions aren't happening. They're saying the coverage is slanted to exacerbate the domestic issues of their new cold war opponents. There's a very long history of deceptive western media coverage of communist-party controlled countries like Cuba and Vietnam and the USSR. "The Mass Detentions are happening, but its a media slant" https://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2019/04/05/are-historic-mosques-in-xinjiang-being-destroyed/ https://www.npr.org/2021/10/24/1047054983/china-muslims-sinicization So, here's the thing: Either you are arguing that open source intelligence is wrong, and we are not witnessing a cultural genocide through mass incarceration, re-education under a prison environment while the PRC wipes out religious sites. So, in other words: You are moving the goal posts. If the US was doing this, would you be outraged? I'd be willing to bet yes. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 14:14
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I think your making an excuse. Post all you want. Just don't be an rear end in a top hat or deny genocides. Like what kind of thin skin excuse do you have to have to be afraid of posting unless you're just a contentious rear end in a top hat with terrible opinions. Nah it's really not worth it considering I like posting in other forums too. Eating a probe here because I get mass reported for saying, for example, that Fancy Pelosi was an obvious troll and gimmick, makes me unable to talk about, idk, cool magic cards I have. So honestly? I'd rather post about the cool magic cards than try to engage with people who don't want to engage, they want to be right all the time and be told they're very smart for being just so correct on everything (Especially when those people are mods).
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Oct 26, 2021 14:14
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Skyl3lazer posted:Nah it's really not worth it considering I like posting in other forums too. Eating a probe here because I get mass reported for saying, for example, that Fancy Pelosi was an obvious troll and gimmick, makes me unable to talk about, idk, cool magic cards I have. So honestly? I'd rather post about the cool magic cards than try to engage with people who don't want to engage, they want to be right all the time and be told they're very smart for being just so correct on everything (Especially when those people are mods). I'm not going to disagree with any of that, it seems accurate. My outlook on it is that those types of people have always been a part of D&D. At one point they were a plurality at best, but still not the majority of posters. It has probably reached a tipping point where the negativity overwhelms the good parts, and hence is dying. Mod choices aren't going to fix that.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:19
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:My only advice is to clean house with the current mod crew and to also end the nonsense of shutting down any discussion of US News in the US News thread by telling people to take it to a containment thread whenever it's a topic that makes the mods uncomfortable. This is a loving hot take: USNews is a single threaded discussion that generally strays off topic. Some topics are strong enough to be moved to their own threads, and many of those threads are very successful. The idea that it makes "Mods uncomfortable" a loving stupid take. By this logic, every subforum should be one single discussion with hundreds of sub-discussions, which doesn't work. Reddit can do this because Reddit has a collapsible tree style forum. We do not. Unless your suggestion is that every topic should be allowed to just go off topic non-stop is laughable. Skyl3lazer posted:Nah it's really not worth it considering I like posting in other forums too. Eating a probe here because I get mass reported for saying, for example, that Fancy Pelosi was an obvious troll and gimmick, makes me unable to talk about, idk, cool magic cards I have. So honestly? I'd rather post about the cool magic cards than try to engage with people who don't want to engage, they want to be right all the time and be told they're very smart for being just so correct on everything (Especially when those people are mods). You got probed for it once. And it was a sixer. That's all it took for you to snap? How long have you been on somethingawful? CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 14:22
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CommieGIR posted:"The Mass Detentions are happening, but its a media slant"
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Oct 26, 2021 14:25
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Cpt_Obvious posted:You're the one setting new goal posts here, and now you've just made another one with the cultural thing. My position has never shifted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide quote:Cultural genocide or cultural cleansing is a concept which was proposed by lawyer Raphael Lemkin in 1944 as a component of genocide.[1] Though the precise definition of cultural genocide remains contested, the Armenian Genocide Museum defines it as "acts and measures undertaken to destroy nations' or ethnic groups' culture through spiritual, national, and cultural destruction And what is it the Mass Incarcerations of a specific subsect is being used for in China? quote:The Uyghur genocide in China. Some one million members of China's Muslim Uyghur minority have been detained in mass detention camps, termed "reeducation camps," which are aimed at changing the political thinking of detainees, their identities, and their religious beliefs.[41] Satellite evidence suggests that China has also razed more than two dozen Uyghur Muslim religious sites to the ground.[
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Oct 26, 2021 14:27
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I'm not going to disagree with any of that, it seems accurate. My outlook on it is that those types of people have always been a part of D&D. At one point they were a plurality at best, but still not the majority of posters. It has probably reached a tipping point where the negativity overwhelms the good parts, and hence is dying. Mod choices aren't going to fix that. I tend to think that the moderation team has great leverage to shape the tone and conversation of a space, either through direct action or neglect. D&D is, to my mind, a place where it has been shaped towards what it is today by the moderators that came before, and the current mod team led it to the inevitable conclusion of a mod-action-as-discussion-ender mentality. In some ways it's not even the "fault" of the current mod team, they were selected because they aligned with the ideals of the people that came before. The only real solution is to admit the current environment isn't what's best for the people that make up the audience (note I did not say the community) and to clean house. Demod all of the current mods here, find new people interested in doing it (so long as they are unrelated to the current mod team), implement a saner set of rules and expectations, and accept that you're going to have a transitional period where you have some angry as hell regulars. The big secret though is that even if you lose regulars, it turns out that they were keeping out more people than they represented. The same thing happens in any environment that has a wider scope than its current community - from the grognards that keep women out of hobbies like MtG or wargaming, to lovely barflies that keep patrons away, to pony-obsessed weirdos that keep kids away. You or others may or may not like CSPAM posters, but the reason CSPAM so quickly outgrew D&D is because there was a lot of interest in politics, but not a lot of interest in D&D (despite it being "the politics forum"). CommieGIR posted:You got probed for it once. And it was a sixer. That's all it took for you to snap? How long have you been on somethingawful? It's called "an example." And, this may be shocking, but seeing people I agree with also eat nonsense probations doesn't encourage me to share my opinions. This isn't just talking about china or whatever.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:28
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CommieGIR posted:This is a loving hot take: USNews is a single threaded discussion that generally strays off topic. Some topics are strong enough to be moved to their own threads, and many of those threads are very successful. The idea that it makes "Mods uncomfortable" a loving stupid take. Thank you for responding. If you have a response to the first half of my post, I would be curious to hear that too.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:30
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Thank you for responding. If you have a response to the first half of my post, I would be curious to hear that too. Since your entire post was framed around "They are suppressing opinions by spinning threads of USNews" what exactly would I need to say about the first half? I've been clear: If I get demoded, great. If we get better mods, awesome. If we change the rules, fantastic. My entire psyche is not tied to being a mod on Somethingawful.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:32
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It owns that the mods here are so lovely they can't even keep their highly moderated feedback thread from devolving into "what even is genocide, anyway" chat lmfao
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Oct 26, 2021 14:33
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CommieGIR posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide What the gently caress are you talking about? How is this relevant to anything I've said at all?
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Oct 26, 2021 14:33
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CommieGIR posted:Since your entire post was framed around "They are suppressing opinions by spinning threads of USNews" what exactly would I need to say about the first half? I've been clear: If I get demoded, great. If we get better mods, awesome. If we change the rules, fantastic. We should get mods who think rape apology deserves more than a sixer, and demod anyone who thinks a sixer is sufficient for such a post.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:35
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Mischievous Mink posted:We should get mods who think rape apology deserves more than a sixer, and demod anyone who thinks a sixer is sufficient for such a post. Oh no I made a mistake once, my entire world comes unraveled. They should've been probed for longer, but unless you are suggesting we dig through the history and start assigning heavier probations to past probes, good luck with that. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 26, 2021 14:36
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CommieGIR posted:The Whitehouse is also not calling the mass incarceration at the border genocide, but effectively that is what is happening. Are you guys really going to define everything by whether or not the White House calls it that, or based on what it actually appears to be? I wonder what the White House currently thinks about Tara Reade, since that's the important thing now.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:37
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CommieGIR posted:Oh no I made a mistake once, my entire world comes unraveled. They should've been probed for longer, but unless you are suggesting we dig through the history and start assigning heavier probations to past probes, good luck with that. It's your consistent policy, not a one time thing lol. On this very page someone posted who you gave a sixer an exact month ago for it, and they're still here. You're so goddamn fragile.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:39
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Mischievous Mink posted:It's your consistent policy, not a one time thing lol. On this very page someone posted who you gave a sixer an exact month ago for it, and they're still here. You're so goddamn fragile. So, you are saying you are pro-forumban without ramping. Got it. Thanks for the feedback.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:40
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Probe and ban people that can't imagine that china commits genocide and has been, big loving red line do not cross, not hard and the fact that we have people trying to argue it isn't is horseshit because they don't want to say their favorite country is in fact awful and racist as hell. Probe and ban actual rape apologists, big red line who gives a gently caress. Sebmojo already brought up the mistake 6er and addressed what happened (just go back and probe it and ban them for being a fuckhead) thatfatkid is dedicated to justify that china is not infact doing it but doesnt provide anything but feelings and denial, we ran off R. Guyovich for the same poo poo. Side note Bathtubcheese being pro bomb a loving country because they are traitors to china is just as loving ghoulish.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:40
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CommieGIR posted:Since your entire post was framed around "They are suppressing opinions by spinning threads of USNews" what exactly would I need to say about the first half? I've been clear: If I get demoded, great. If we get better mods, awesome. If we change the rules, fantastic. Thank you again for responding. It is clear that the D&D moderation team is taking this feedback thread very seriously.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:41
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camoseven posted:It owns that the mods here are so lovely they can't even keep their highly moderated feedback thread from devolving into "what even is genocide, anyway" chat lmfao How exactly do you propose that they do that, probe/ban the people disagreeing with them about the definition of genocide instead of having a discussion? I mean, I wouldn't necessarily argue but I bet that would derail the thread a lot harder. I imagine you'd instead be here posting about how the mods can't even take civil disagreement with their opinions, not smiling and nodding.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:42
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CommieGIR posted:So, you are saying you are pro-forumban without ramping. Got it. Thanks for the feedback. Ban+30 every post that has rape apology, quit putting words in my mouth you dumb gently caress. Forumbans are stupid. You aren't listening and you never have. More reason you shouldn't have buttons lol.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:43
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Probe and ban people that can't imagine that china commits genocide and has been, big loving red line do not cross, not hard and the fact that we have people trying to argue it isn't is horseshit because they don't want to say their favorite country is in fact awful and racist as hell. Probe and ban actual rape apologists, big red line who gives a gently caress. Sebmojo already brought up the mistake 6er and addressed what happened (just go back and probe it and ban them for being a fuckhead) Is saying you believe the event happened but that it doesn't meet the definition of what people think of as genocide now denying the event?
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Oct 26, 2021 14:44
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