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Update XXIII - Sugar candy teatime Music: First Chimeric Lunar Sea - First Floor  Another week, another orb.  Now with 100% more...!  ...recolored enemies.     She's close, Master. We'll pounce on her and ravish her bones... Uh, not the way you're thinking!Caster she's a kid what the hell.  Alice is off in the distance, just past the entry portal.   You're "It", lady. If you can catch Alice, you win, lady! All right, ready... Go!  Caster appears ready to dash off at any moment. In any case, I'll follow her nose (for it always knows) and chase after Alice. The name of the game on this floor?  Hidden paths. Everywhere.  Also palette swaps, but that's just Extra in general.  After the Klein and the Pradox, we now have an Escher.  When I say that hidden paths are everywhere, I do mean everywhere. You can't even see that distant room from the other side!  You don't even get anything good for it!  North of where we saw Alice, we have an Inspire variant.  This one is called a Prophecy.  There are chests floating in the drat void!  Left of the Prophecy is a path leading to Alice.  Those white frills could only belong to Alice.  Caster's having fun, at least.  Alice gets away from her.  And then teleports away for good measure.  South of there is a new enemy type.  The Weather Drive is a simple enemy, almost always using a 1-1-2-2-1-1 pattern every round. This makes early fights incredibly annoying, as if you don't get any middle actions revealed, you have to gamble on a 50% chance.  West of the Weather Drive is a red chest.  That's Taiga's first request finished, once we trade this for the comic book.  Directly south is another path. Every path that's separate from their connecting rooms is hidden, by the way.  Caster gains a level off that Prophecy.  To the east of that is another floating chest.  Holding a new item!  The Pure Ether is the strongest heal in the game, so I'll be sure to hold on to it forever.  West of where we last saw Alice is another path.  And just north of that is Alice!  I need to make a serious effort to chase her down or she'll get away.   She vanishes again.   There's a path off to the right.  We can see Alice to the north.  But there's a chest to the east.   Guess who missed a spot!   Alice can wait a few minutes.  There we go.  This room has some loot.  But no path to the other room. The solution?  A secret path within a secret path!  My reward for all this?  Some pocket money.  This took so long I ended up gaining another level on my way back to Alice.  Alright, she's in front of the Trigger for this floor. All we have to do is catch her, grab the Trigger, and wait for the second floor to open.  Hey, lady... Do you wanna hear Alice's story? Once upon a time, there was a little girl named Alice, who lived in a country far, far away from here...   What the gently caress?    The sky got really red and then my house got really black. Then I woke up in a white room. Nothing ever changed. I had no friends. I had no Monmy or Daddy. There's...another Alice...? But something happened that hurt so much that I couldn't tough it out. Then I woke up here. But, it's okay. It's really fun here. There are bunches of nice people.Alright, I'd say there's a 99% chance Alice is a ghost.   Oh no.  Oh no. I'm not very good at sewing, but I'm sure I can, at the very least, stitch them together. Of course it'd be okay. What a relief. I wouldn't want to make Mommy mad again. Then, let's play really hard with the lady! Cuz she is our brand new friend. This Master isn't like the two before. We can touch this Master and they even have warm blood. Yeah! That's a good idea. With that, Alice raises her hand. And then-Music: Stops      Oh god what!?  Music: Breach  The Arena floor, the walls, the air- it all shakes under the influence of a huge influx of power. My mind is screaming warnings. Run. Run! RUN! Play with him, lady. I should- Stand and face it.Yes, let's pick a fight with the giant monster summoned by the crazy ghost doll girl. There's no possible way this could go wrong! Next time: It goes wrong. BisbyWorl fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Feb 13, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2021 07:58
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My opinion of Caster and Hime's intelligence just cratered. Good job running into the obvious trap idiots. Also Caster what the gently caress.
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Oct 23, 2021 08:11
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Anybody got a [spoiler redacted] lying around? I think we need one.Ratoslov posted:My opinion of Caster and Hime's intelligence just cratered. Good job running into the obvious trap idiots. Alice was camping the paths to the key, it was kinda hard not to walk into her (and you know she'd be there for all week). Also  Caster
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Oct 23, 2021 09:48
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You know what? I'm just glad to see an enemy model that doesn't look like a broken off piece of a toy.
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Oct 23, 2021 10:56
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They really are going pretty hard on this servant being Alice Liddell (or the fictional representation thereof), aren't they?
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Oct 23, 2021 23:44
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Omobono posted:Anybody got a [spoiler redacted] lying around? I think we need one. Speaking as somebody who has absolutely no idea about anything in this game since my only involvement in the Fate series was playing the original game (I understood Fate/Hollow Cantspellthedamnword was some sort of weird follow-up to the game, Fate/Zero was the prequel and the others are alternate world versions like this one, correct?), I have to assume this is a whole Alice in Wonderland thing and the summoned critter is a Jabberwocky, and your censored remark was referencing a vorpal sword. Too bad unlike me the main character appears to have absolutely no knowledge or memory of literally any cultural mythology or legends (read a book, girl!) so like always this will probably only be confirmed at the last minute after enough clues to tell a moron who the Servant is. Though for all the games make a big deal out of "if you know who the Servant is you've got such an advantage!", have there been any occasions in the series (apart from this game apparently helping some with the boss fights) where an opponent has actually managed to leverage that knowledge into an advantage in a fight? At least in the original game, aside from Archer's thing, knowing who the Servants were was basically just telling Shiro and company how hosed they were more than anything else. Nobody tried, like, inviting Lancer in for a bowl of dog stew or anything.
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Oct 25, 2021 18:27
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MadDogMike posted:Nobody tried, like, inviting Lancer in for a bowl of dog stew or anything. Something close to that does happen in Hollow Ataraxia! Lancer was hitting on Shirou's classmates and Shirou wasn't cool with that, so he told one of them to offer Lancer a hot dog if he wouldn't stop, and only tell him the name after he eats it. The scene ends with Lancer freaking out while Shirou is laughing his rear end off.
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Oct 25, 2021 18:39
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I mean, good luck getting Cu Chulainn to actually accept any food. There was exactly one occasion in the original story where Cu showing up didn't mean he was about to stick someone. The problem with most heroic outright weaknesses is that they usually aren't feasible to leverage. Materant fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Oct 25, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 18:46
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MadDogMike posted:Nobody tried, like, inviting Lancer in for a bowl of dog stew or anything. Now that would be just rude. Wasting food to gain such an underhanded advantage? Not even Archerkins would go so low. E: Materant posted:I mean, good luck getting Cu Chulainn to actually accept any food. There was exactly one occasion in the original story where Cu showing up didn't mean he was about to stick someone. He has a geas about not refusing invitations IIRC, that's how they got him eating dog triggering his "no dogs" geas, but I assume it has reasonable wording about when invitations can be offered. Omobono fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Oct 25, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 19:00
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MadDogMike posted:Speaking as somebody who has absolutely no idea about anything in this game since my only involvement in the Fate series was playing the original game (I understood Fate/Hollow Cantspellthedamnword was some sort of weird follow-up to the game, Fate/Zero was the prequel and the others are alternate world versions like this one, correct?), I have to assume this is a whole Alice in Wonderland thing and the summoned critter is a Jabberwocky, and your censored remark was referencing a vorpal sword. Too bad unlike me the main character appears to have absolutely no knowledge or memory of literally any cultural mythology or legends (read a book, girl!) so like always this will probably only be confirmed at the last minute after enough clues to tell a moron who the Servant is. In fairness to the protagonist she has actual amnesia and can't remember quite a few things that seem pretty basic. Like who she is and why she's here, as examples.
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Oct 25, 2021 19:09
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MadDogMike posted:Though for all the games make a big deal out of "if you know who the Servant is you've got such an advantage!", have there been any occasions in the series (apart from this game apparently helping some with the boss fights) where an opponent has actually managed to leverage that knowledge into an advantage in a fight? At least in the original game, aside from Archer's thing, knowing who the Servants were was basically just telling Shiro and company how hosed they were more than anything else. Nobody tried, like, inviting Lancer in for a bowl of dog stew or anything. In Fate/kaleid liner Prisma Illya 3rei, when Illya fights against Beatrice with the Thor Class Card, she straight-up tries to reenact Thor's death as any direct fight with such a powerful Berserker (rule-breaking, at that, as no Gods can be summoned) would end in sure death. It fails because that wasn't Thor at all but his significantly lesser-known son, Magni, who has no recorded weaknesses.
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Oct 25, 2021 19:32
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Sum Gai posted:In fairness to the protagonist she has actual amnesia and can't remember quite a few things that seem pretty basic. Like who she is and why she's here, as examples. True, it's terribly unfair to rant about protagonists acting like they're brain-damaged when, y'know, they actually ARE brain damaged. Hell, pretty sure the poor girl probably got deliberately sabotaged by someone who will no doubt be her final opponent or something. Blaze Dragon posted:In Fate/kaleid liner Prisma Illya 3rei, when Illya fights against Beatrice with the Thor Class Card, she straight-up tries to reenact Thor's death as any direct fight with such a powerful Berserker (rule-breaking, at that, as no Gods can be summoned) would end in sure death. Apart from Kratos anyway, but no god summoning kind of rules him out. Though now part of me would love to see him in a Fate game, maybe from pre-first game (Noble Phantasm would obviously be Brutal Quicktime Event).
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Oct 26, 2021 03:15
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Update XXIV - The Strongest Enemy Music: Breach   Alice and... Alice(?) leave.  Oh god his hands are bigger than my head.  I'm sure he can't be that strong. I got The List, after all. Music: Duel - Unauthorized Battle   Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... There's no move preview. And his health isn't listed. And there's no timer.  How outmatched are we?  About this much.  But wait!  I have savestates, I can just brute force it!  He opened with a Guard, so I can just use Break and see what comes next.  He... he's reading my inputs.  Well read these inputs!   Ah.  Yeah, this fight is unwinnable. Your choices are 'die now' or 'die when your MP runs out'. Music: Stops  I don't have what I need to beat it... With power that overwhelming, I must be facing a...Berserker? I only have moments to process my mistake before my consciousness melts away into darkness—  Music: Breach  Alright, let's not be an idiot this time. Run away. This is no joke. No way could I emerge from a fight with that thing in one piece. For now, the wisest course of action is retreat. Retreat when it's time to retreat! Your ability to grasp the obvious is incredible, Master! No need to worry about me! Running from danger is what foxes do best! Our course of action is decided. I put all of my efforts into escaping with my Servant. Then, I hear Alice's voice calling out from behind.  Aww, boring... Well, he'll be here until the magic we gave him runs out, so come play again! This is a disaster. The cipher key is on the other side of that monster.  There are two Alices?! What in the hell is going on? And also, the malevolent monster the girls called forth... Could that have been their Servant?   Berserker— A class that exchanges a Heroic Spirit's sanity and original personality for unbridled power. If that monster is a Berserker-class Servant, going near it without a plan would be dangerous. The Alice in white is always refered to with blue text, while the Alice in black gets red text. This will help tremendously on cutting down confusion on between them. On my end, white Alice will be written normally and black Alice will be bolded.  Maybe this particular Holy Grail War allows that... Let's investigate it later, Master!Music: First Chimeric Lunar Sea - First Floor  The cutscene kicks us back to the healing fountain.  While Alice's level 1 just gets us a possible class.  The big guy himself is just strolling around the Trigger chest.  Let's go back to campus and devise a plan of attack.Although approaching him has Caster stop you, so I can't just march up and get killed again.  With the rest of the floor cleared out and the Trigger heavily guarded, we'll just have to leave and hope tomorrow brings a solution.  Music: School III  That Servant is...really, really strong! Let's do our best to beat him and get the cipher keys!  Music: School IV  A person in the distance...? It must be my imagination. No... There's actually someone there. It's a man all in white. He walks toward me slowly, flickering as if he's not all there. A ghost in a white robe walks up for a moment.  Then vanishes just as quickly.  Leo walks up.  The calm voice jerks me back out of the trance and back to reality. Leo is standing next to me. Did he see the apparition, too? If it was an apparition.   In that way, the SE.RA.PH resembles the primordial sea from which unicellular organisms sprung. Just as those bacteria grew into humans, so, too, do the conditions of SE.RA.PH allow for evolution. That pseudo lifeform must have been generated from information evolving in the SE.RA.PH. It's merely an echo of someone who once lived. It's harmless data, don't worry about it....are you telling me that the SE.RA.PH is a self-haunting computer system?   Also, I don't want to be bossy, but you really should find out more about that Berserker. That's a good idea. I should find out if that thing Alice summoned is even a real Berserker. And until I figure out if those girls are twins or not I have no idea how our battle will unfold. First of all, should I hunt down Alice, or should I find someone who might know more about her? For the time being, I think I'll take Caster's advice and be a bit more cautious than usual.   Frolicking with your opponent is pretty freaking inappropriate. ~ The virtual space SE.RA.PH created is really, really impressive. This is a hacker's paradise. And by annoying little bugs, I mean those two trollops that have been eye-humping you.Caster. Darling. Sweetheart. You've been an excellent Servant, even with Hakuno's own inadequacies and my own incredibly unorthodox build. But if you point the phrase 'eye-humping trollops' towards literal children one more time I'll cut our contract on the spot.  Alice is hanging out on 2F today.   All right, Alice will go and hide and you have to come and find me! She then teleports while on campus. Which is actually rather odd, when you think about it. Not even Shinji could pull that off.   *Chuckle* Such a devious plan is beyond the ken of such a little girl. For all of the dire warnings, Caster seems really...enthusiastic about this, but I can see why. Hide and seek, huh? She'll be hiding somewhere on campus. I'd better go look for her.  You're either brave or stupid.~ ...How many times must I tell you not to talk to me? Actually, feel free to tell me all about yourself. The favor won't be returned, however.Serious guy survived! He was just doing his own thing yesterday!    The blue ones have regular items, red ones have rare items, and green ones contain cipher keys. While not really earth-shattering information, it is something to keep in mind. Should you need to revisit a previous action, this data might prove to be invaluable. Way ahead of you, sister. I got saves all the way back to Newshound.   No... It is not my place to judge. Results are all that matter.  Playing hide and seek. I see. I admire you. My professor instructed me that the truth hides in the trivia of the everyday. You're always training, even at school, Hakuno Kishinami.~ Playing tag. Monsters? Are you being pursued by a dreadful Servant like a dullahan or Scylla? If you injure another Master on campus, a penalty will be imposed. Though it appears some Masters are willing to do very audacious things.~ I'm too embarrassed to say. Is there anything in this world that words cannot give shape to? There are words for most things. Ah, I understand. What you wish to say cannot be spoken without fear of great misunderstanding. That's exactly it! I see. I understand what you are trying to say, Hakuno Kishinami. Do your best.~ That's not it... My apologies, but I still don't understand. My professor would know, but I do not... I still require training. You, on the other hand, are already wise, Hakuno Kishinami.   Why did Taiga want this taken away anyways?  Ah.  You-know-who is always causing a ruckus in the school building. Quick stop at the Chapel to spend my SP. I'll start pumping Magic eventually, I swear.  "Innocence" and "purity"— I just saw a child who fits those words. Could she be another Master? He cut our opponent in half in the blink of an eye! And not only is he hot, his aura is just...WOW! I forgot to check in with Sakura yesterday to get her weekly supplies, so I stop in now.  Here you go, Hakuno! Healing supplies. I wish you the best of luck this week, too. ...thanks, Sakura.  The techniques bestowed by these items can temporarily increase some of your Servant's stats.I tried the Strength buff offscreen yesterday, and I didn't notice much of a difference. Better to hold on to MP for heals instead, honestly.  Speaking of heals, I have enough cash to buy the Mermaid Robe!  The Phoenix Scarf has served me well since the first floor of the Arena, but the time has come to retire it.  But seriously, I question his taste, and predilections, for using an avatar like that! I mean, what a creepy little troll... Just the sight of him disgusts me.Do you think Alice is some 30 year old neckbeard or something? Why the hell has everyone gotten creepy today?  ...Alice, you suck at hide and seek. Music: Duel of Fate    Give me something nice... What should I ask for...? Who is that girl in black? *Giggle* She's Alice, just as I'm Alice. But who is that over there? I'm sure you'll eventually figure it out. So, is there anything else?This just loops back to the choice. Tell your "friend" to move. My "friend"... Oh, you'll have to ask...her... about that... Fitting the constant Alice in Wonderland motifs, the Vorpal Blade was coined by Lewis Carroll himself in Through the Looking-Glass, and was used to kill a Jabberwocky. Odds are good that whatever Alice summoned yesterday is one. As you might imagine, Hakuno will never use this for this week's Servant Status mission, so we'll have to get confirmation elsewhere.  A blade of legend that no one has ever seen. How will you find it? CAN you find it? *Giggle* Well, good luck! Bye-bye. Alice runs into the Arena.  But we should find that Vorpal Blade the girl mentioned before more...important...matters. What are the odds that we'll be able to find such a rare item laying around school? Next time: The vorpal blade went snicker-snack! BisbyWorl fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Feb 13, 2023 |
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Oct 26, 2021 09:19
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Everyone's acting weird, even for this game. What the heck is up with that?
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Oct 26, 2021 10:33
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Remember, Shinji was like ten. Appearances mean little here.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:01
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Honestly if I knew that someone would have to hack their info to give themselves a custom avatar, and the avatar was a little girl in an alice-in-wonderland style frilly gothic lolita dress, I'd assume they were a weirdo instead of an actual child, too. EDIT: I have no excuse for casko though. That 'eye-humping trollops' line came out of loving nowhere.
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Oct 26, 2021 16:57
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Casko has So does every heroic spirit to be fair.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:07
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So are summoning spells like, a common thing in Fate? I'm going off the assumption that Alice is a Caster, fwiw. And for that matter, would summoning something like the Jabberwock here be able to get around that pesky magic resistance that Sabers have, or can they just slice right through it because they basically just have an antimagic field around them?
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Oct 26, 2021 17:15
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Arzaac posted:So are summoning spells like, a common thing in Fate? I'm going off the assumption that Alice is a Caster, fwiw. And for that matter, would summoning something like the Jabberwock here be able to get around that pesky magic resistance that Sabers have, or can they just slice right through it because they basically just have an antimagic field around them? Summoning is a very engaging ritual and aren't common at all, aside from reality marbles, summoning rites are one of the rarest magecraft in the setting. Medea has a Noble Phantasm that could summon the dragon that protected the Golden Fleece, Argon Coin, but since she's never summoned anything in life she can't use it aside from cuddling it to feel happy (which heals her in F/GO, it's just that soft.) Omobono posted:Now that would be just rude. Wasting food to gain such an underhanded advantage? Not even Archerkins would go so low. If I remember it right, Cu Cullan was invited to a feast (He's geased to never refuse a meal.) and during that dinner he was fed dog meat (Geased to never eat dog). cdyoung fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 17:19
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Didn't seem like there was a whole lot of magic at play with the Jabberwock itself, just it smearing you across the ground. Caster in Stay Night also had the dragon tooth skeletons she deployed early in the story (and saw far more use in the ufotable anime), which would also likely be able to bypass magic resistance by merit of just stabbing you instead.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:19
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The game seems to be failing pretty badly at subtlety here, though I guess it had to set this up for it to make any sense. Explaining that ghosts exist in the SE.RA.PH just as you face a weird, otherwordly girl makes it really obvious where this is going. Alice is a cyber ghost, created from the memories of the original Alice, who was summoned as her Servant. "Berserker" is no Servant at all, merely a familiar (which a Servant technically also is, but you get my point) if not just a random monster Alice controls. The only question left then is Alice's Class. It isn't Berserker, since Alice is fully capable of speech and thought, so she isn't under madness. Weapon-related classes would be kind of silly for a child, so we can discard Saber and Lancer. Hime already fought Archer and Rider, and met Assassin. So the only possible choice is Caster, which roughly fits, at least more than the others. Now see me getting literally all of this wrong because Fate can be pretty good at playing with people's expectations.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:21
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Materant posted:Didn't seem like there was a whole lot of magic at play with the Jabberwock itself, just it smearing you across the ground. Caster in Stay Night also had the dragon tooth skeletons she deployed early in the story (and saw far more use in the ufotable anime), which would also likely be able to bypass magic resistance by merit of just stabbing you instead. Jabberwock is a Berserker= type familiar, so it's no wonder. And as for the DTWs the Colchis kingdom are known for using then, so her being a Sorceress princess of that kingdom would preclude her to know how to summon them.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:26
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I don't think you can explicitly count out Archer, Rider, or Assassin, because this Holy Grail War has like 200 combatants and therefore duplicate classes are explicitly allowed. But at the same time, I have no idea how this little girl could be any of those classes so I'm still guessing Caster.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:26
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Arzaac posted:So are summoning spells like, a common thing in Fate? I'm going off the assumption that Alice is a Caster, fwiw. And for that matter, would summoning something like the Jabberwock here be able to get around that pesky magic resistance that Sabers have, or can they just slice right through it because they basically just have an antimagic field around them? Summoning is one of the way to get around that pesky "magic resistance: yes" that high tier Sabers have. Of course the problem is that high tier Sabers are 1v1 specialists so your summoned monster(s) tend to become smears on the ground in short order, but that's why buffs exist, to increase the average monster-to-smear time by half a second. In F/SN Caster there had an army of summoned monsters; they couldn't really do more than distract Saber even when buffed but sometimes a distraction is all that a Caster needs. E: they didn't simply dissipate from Saber's magic resistance, they got obliterated because she also has "swole: yes" and "swordmanship: yes" Blaze Dragon posted:The only question left then is Alice's Class. It isn't Berserker, since Alice is fully capable of speech and thought, so she isn't under madness. Technically speaking we're still operating under original Berserker rules, where Madness Enhancement is a switch that the master can turn on and off at will.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:31
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Omobono posted:E: they didn't simply dissipate from Saber's magic resistance, they got obliterated because she also has "swole: yes" and "swordmanship: yes" Great Cleave
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Oct 26, 2021 17:39
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Omobono posted:Of course the problem is that high tier Sabers are 1v1 specialists so your summoned monster(s) tend to become smears on the ground in short order, but that's why buffs exist, to increase the average monster-to-smear time by half a second. Man, I know why they set up the Grail War like this, but what a bunch of boring curmudgeons, they make a cool spellcasting class and nerf it into the ground. 
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Oct 26, 2021 17:53
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Arzaac posted:Man, I know why they set up the Grail War like this, but what a bunch of boring curmudgeons, they make a cool spellcasting class and nerf it into the ground. Fun thing is, a Caster is horribly effective when the master is not your average arrogant magus.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:56
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Omobono posted:Fun thing is, a Caster is horribly effective when the master is not your average arrogant magus. Explicitly this, Medea with only reinforcement magic was able to elevate Kuzuki, from a strong human assassin, to almost servant levels of power. Casters only lose in direct combat unless they have the "High speed Magic Words " skill that basically allows rapid casting, or are from the age of the gods and have access to true sorceries, or both. despite how powerful the classes were in F/SN Medea was actually able to do things, even to Artoria.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:17
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Omobono posted:Technically speaking we're still operating under original Berserker rules, where Madness Enhancement is a switch that the master can turn on and off at will. Ehhh, Zero Berserker and Heracles were both pretty uncommunicative even outside of ME. More talky Berserkers is really only a thing that began with Apocrypha's Spartacus.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:17
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cdyoung posted:If I remember it right, Cu Cullan was invited to a feast (He's geased to never refuse a meal.) and during that dinner he was fed dog meat (Geased to never eat dog). It should be noted that even when he was put in a situation where he was forced to choose to break one of the two geas that he was under, Cu still went out in a blaze of glory. In at least one version of the myth, he killed so many dudes during that final battle that even after he died from his wounds, his enemies refused to approach his corpse for three full days because they thought he might be faking his death to lure them in close so he could keep killing them. It wasn't until a carrion bird landed on his corpse and started pecking at it that they were convinced he was really dead.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:39
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W.T. Fits posted:It should be noted that even when he was put in a situation where he was forced to choose to break one of the two geas that he was under, Cu still went out in a blaze of glory. In at least one version of the myth, he killed so many dudes during that final battle that even after he died from his wounds, his enemies refused to approach his corpse for three full days because they thought he might be faking his death to lure them in close so he could keep killing them. It wasn't until a carrion bird landed on his corpse and started pecking at it that they were convinced he was really dead. And he still chopped a dude's arm off.
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Oct 26, 2021 19:18
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Arzaac posted:I don't think you can explicitly count out Archer, Rider, or Assassin, because this Holy Grail War has like 200 combatants and therefore duplicate classes are explicitly allowed. Yes, but also, let me remind you of Update...7, I think? quote:The Information Matrix specifically has eight slots, one of which is the playable Servant (Caster, in this case). Thus, seven slots are left. Therefore, it stands to reason that the player will have to face seven Servants during the Holy Grail War, one of each type. The only class that should repeat is the one the player chose, and in fact, it would've happened already had the LP chosen Archer. Gawain is almost definitely Saber. We've seen Kuzuki's (I already forgot his real name) Assassin. And of course, Rider and Archer were fought already. This leaves us with Lancer, Berserker and Caster as unknowns. Alice can only be one of the three (if I am right and she's the Servant, but I see no reason to doubt that) and Caster seems like the most obvious one of the three.
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Oct 26, 2021 19:29
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Casters are really at a huge disadvantage in this moon grail war because they can't play to their primary strength, which is setting up a workshop and then turn it into a tomb-of-horrors esque high lethality dungeon crawl. Forcing them into gladiatorial style combat in a neutral playing field is almost cruel.
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Oct 26, 2021 19:40
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Cyouni posted:Ehhh, Zero Berserker and Heracles were both pretty uncommunicative even outside of ME. More talky Berserkers is really only a thing that began with Apocrypha's Spartacus. And even then, Spartacus had his own brand of weirdness thanks to having an EX-ranked Mad Enhancement.
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Oct 26, 2021 19:47
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Cyouni posted:Ehhh, Zero Berserker and Heracles were both pretty uncommunicative even outside of ME. More talky Berserkers is really only a thing that began with Apocrypha's Spartacus. Ilya kept Heracles permanently under Madness Enhancement because of her abandonment issues, Zero Berserker forced his madness always on (which should not normally be possible but Zero Berserker) for reasons Arturia was there and screw dealing with his mess of emotions
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Oct 26, 2021 21:26
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Omobono posted:Fun thing is, a Caster is horribly effective when the master is not your average arrogant magus. It really, REALLY depends on the Caster you draw. Medea is a top tier Caster from the Age of the Gods, so yes she's incredibly powerful when allowed to operate in an effective manner - and even there a Servant with high MR like Artoria was able to just blanket shrug off practically everything forcing Caster to basically play the edge cases to get around it. Like, her only answer to Heracles was basically rely on her wards at the temple weakening him enough that the fake Servant she'd truly warped the rules of the game to summon could (barely) hold him off. On the other hand, it really doesn't matter how accommodating the master is if you draw someone like Shakespeare, Anderson or Mozart in the standard format Grail deathmatch as you're probably be completely hosed. Gilles was another terrible Caster for actually winning a Grail War, because his only real capability is summons, and if they can deal with the sea demons then that only leaves his Cthulhu summon... which basically breaks every rule of secrecy there is and would have guaranteed a response from various organizations - and still wasn't that great vs. Servants, it was just basically unstoppable by most. Avicebron could theoretically win a Grail War, but he'd never be able to bring his big gun into play and swarms of smaller golems would probably result in a team against you. edit: Basically, there are lots of Casters that are good as part of a team, but the ones who can reasonably succeed in a everyone for themselves deathmatch is MUCH smaller - and generally it needs to be supporting other Servants for effectiveness against peer opponents. Kuzuki is a wild outlier in terms of boosting a human for Servant fights, due to bullshit martial arts being the trump factor there. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 21:57
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Casters are designed to be chumps because what self respecting magus would summon a better magus to fight for them. Like the magus view of Servants is as familiars who are supposed to do what they are told and win them the war, which uh isn't really going to be very compatible with many casters at all since a lot of them are going to be, well, similar in mindset to a magus. Also if you summon someone better at magic than the founders of the ritual then things are going to get messed up (as Medea was starting to do), and they might divine that the whole thing is a trap for them and start wrecking the whole ritual. Actually in hindsight maybe they should have just not made that a class at all. Also, yikes on those Caster lines towards Alice here. I guess the game wants you to initially think Alice is just someone who hacked the game specifically to get that appearance? But they didn't really do a good job of that.
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Oct 26, 2021 22:06
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Zeron posted:Actually in hindsight maybe they should have just not made that a class at all. I'm thinking that might be the point of the class? I'm not too well versed in Grail War mechanics, but given how summons are kind of random they might be intentionally trying to trap high magic servants in a lovely class to kill them before they figure it out, where otherwise they might end up as an Archer and cause problems
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Oct 26, 2021 23:09
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FGO did kind of expand/retcon the whole "why do these classes exist" by the whole reveal that Zouken Matou just copied the system the World uses to summon Heroic Spirits against Beasts and it uses those 7 templates. Now, in regards to every other class... we can probably blame the Einzberns. Even the ones they didn't make.
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Oct 26, 2021 23:31
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Possibly? But realistically the way it was set up was that the three Knight classes were supposed to be significantly stronger than the Cavalry classes in general, which in theory were all had weaknesses. So it was supposed to be the three founding families getting the stronger classes while everyone else (who weren't supposed to win) got the weaker ones. Caster's arguably the weakest overall in the format, but all four of those weren't supposed to be great. Now in practice this had already fallen apart by the third war, given we know one of the outside Masters got Saber (two, in fact) while the Einzberns decided to try for Avenger, but that was the original idea. Of the three founding families only Tohsaka seems to have reliably gotten a Knight class, given they had one in the Fourth and Fifth and likely had one in the Third. Einzbern of course went for Avenger in the Third and Berserker in the Fifth, while Makiri went Berserker in the Fourth and Rider (+Assassin) in the Fifth and their summon in the Third is completely unknown. Who got what in the Second (the first real Grail War) is completely unknown, as the only thing known is that the rules were still being tweaked and all the Masters died.
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Oct 26, 2021 23:31
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