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hot cocoa on the couch posted:also read in that article (not sure if it was mentioned itt yet) that the crew was using the pistol for recreational target shooting and they kept the live ammo and blanks together?!?! when the armourer said she doesn't like loading blanks because she doesn't know how to do it???? lmfao How is loading blanks different from regular cartridges? Even if you were using a cap-and-ball revolver, you’d just have to use paper wadding instead of a ball, right?
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Oct 26, 2021 15:30
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The girl is really stupid. Like off the charts dumb.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:31
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punishedkissinger posted:someone should have told her that you do not in fact have to hand it to them
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Oct 26, 2021 15:37
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kntfkr posted:"Dad, it happened again. Can u or mom pick me up? I'm drunk. Bring my Switch."  ( also, nice to see the classy journalism of the daily mail is still alive and kicking  )
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Oct 26, 2021 15:39
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Do we know Patton Oswalt's whereabouts during the incident?
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Oct 26, 2021 15:42
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punishedkissinger posted:personally I would clear any firearm that is in my hands at all, but i don't think it's reasonable to expect the same from actors who are at best given rudimentary training. especially since the person who handed them the gun loudly proclaimed that it was clear. i dont think they want some actor "clearing the gun". somebody mentioned another armorer ITT that literally never let the guns out of his sight in case the actor does something stupid that fucks with them. it's better that he literally does nothing with the gun except hold it and pull the trigger after the actual experts set stuff up. even if it's supposed to be completely empty as opposed to loaded w/ a blank
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Oct 26, 2021 15:55
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punishedkissinger posted:personally I would clear any firearm that is in my hands at all, but i don't think it's reasonable to expect the same from actors who are at best given rudimentary training. especially since the person who handed them the gun loudly proclaimed that it was clear. I agree that the actors should not be expected to be gun experts or expected to be checking the guns themselves under normal circumstances - you don't want them messing with the gun and there's no reason to do it themselves when it's already been done in front of them. I even agree that the actor is much less responsible than the armorer and assistant director here. However, I don't agree that they have zero responsibility insofar as they should recognize when normal mandatory safety procedures are being disregarded and should refuse to do blatantly unsafe things when they haven't seen any of these normal precautions being taken. Given the statements of people who worked with this AD before it's not unheard of for the actors to be handed a gun and say "no, we're doing the gun safety stuff before I point it at myself and pull the trigger". Seems like the "normal" process, as far as the actor is concerned, is for the armorer or prop master to walk in with the gun, then conduct a safety brief for themselves and the other workers on set so that everyone present is aware of the gun and its status. During this brief they display and inspect the ammunition (or lack thereof) and put a rod down the barrel to show that nothing is in the gun(s). That's a pretty easy to understand and very visible way to clear a gun that would be pretty hard for an actor to miss. In addition it's common to either place barriers between the crew and the actor and/or to provide a safe point of aim for them to point the gun so they aren't pointing it directly at people. Also pretty reasonable, easy, and observable for the actor. When none of this happens and the actor doesn't get the safety brief, doesn't see the gun cleared, takes the gun from the wrong person, shrugs off the lack of precautions on the set, then points the gun directly at a group of people and squeezes the trigger I'd say the actor was also being negligent. This is doubly the case when they are both experienced enough to be familiar with normal safety procedures, had several recent close calls during this production in this exact circumstance to demonstrate the danger of disregarding them, and are also acting management for the production. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 16:00
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Vengarr posted:How is loading blanks different from regular cartridges? I dunno poo poo about guns myself, but all the gun experts and armourers talking about this on twitter make it seem like it's kinda touchy. To make the gun action work with blanks you have to use more energetic powder, which increases the risk of the whole thing blowing up if you do it wrong. And I bet dealing with antique guns is even worse because they're a lot less consistent. The thing I'm wondering is, the Holywood gun system all seems very hodge-podge. Like every production is hiring an individual armourer that does their own thing. Why isn't there a company that makes a whole standard set of replica guns produced or modified to fire only blanks, supplied with ammo that works correctly and minimizes the danger? Extra credit would be make them incompatible with standard ammo so that an accident like this would be completely impossible. I dunno, for all the dozens and dozens of tv shows and movies every year that feature guns, sounds like it'd be a sustainable business.
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Oct 26, 2021 16:14
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Actors should be unbelievably stupid and ethereally beautiful. We shouldn’t even teach them the alphabet, much less gun safety
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Oct 26, 2021 16:16
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kntfkr posted:I think this was her second job and she hosed up her first job as well by handing an unchecked gun to an 11 year old. How did she even get a second job? Lord almighty.
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Oct 26, 2021 16:23
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Klyith posted:I dunno poo poo about guns myself, but all the gun experts and armourers talking about this on twitter make it seem like it's kinda touchy. To make the gun action work with blanks you have to use more energetic powder, which increases the risk of the whole thing blowing up if you do it wrong. And I bet dealing with antique guns is even worse because they're a lot less consistent. A lot of replica guns are generally easier to deal with blanks because the blank doesn't need to cycle the action like it would in a semi-automatic or automatic gun. With a revolver or bolt action gun, for example, you just load a blank round into an unmodified gun. You manually cycle the gun so you can load the blanks as light as you want - basically just worrying about safety vs. what it looks like when fired. As you say they also need to carefully consider the power of the blank as a quicker burning powder gives you great cinematic fireballs but can also create too much pressure in the chamber and blow the gun up if you overdo it. Usually, as I understand it, movie blanks are loaded to be less powerful than military blanks. With newer guns they're often semi-automatic or automatic, which means the blank needs enough power to cycle the gun. That usually means using special blank adapters or welding an obstruction into the barrel so a lower powered blank can still create enough pressure in the chamber to cycle the action, ejecting the spent casing and loading the next one. Notably if the weld is done wrong on the barrel obstruction it may come loose and be fired out of the gun like a bullet. So yeah, you don't want to discharge blanks in the direction of people or expensive things you don't want broken. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 16:38
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sigher posted:How did she even get a second job? Lord almighty. Nepotism. Her dad’s a big wig in the industry.
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Oct 26, 2021 16:40
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sigher posted:How did she even get a second job? Lord almighty. her dad is friends with a lot of producers
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Oct 26, 2021 16:41
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The Running Of The Bulls, but instead of torturing an enraged animal it's people giving Alec Baldwin stage directions
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Oct 26, 2021 16:49
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cold gun
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Oct 26, 2021 16:54
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:i wish alec baldwin would come in to this thread and shoot it to death Jesus loving christ my dude having a joke is one thing but wishing a violent ballistic Baldwin death on every poster in here is real dark
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Oct 26, 2021 16:58
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Klyith posted:Why isn't there a company that makes a whole standard set of replica guns produced or modified to fire only blanks, supplied with ammo that works correctly and minimizes the danger? Extra credit would be make them incompatible with standard ammo so that an accident like this would be completely impossible. I dunno, for all the dozens and dozens of tv shows and movies every year that feature guns, sounds like it'd be a sustainable business. Warbadger's post is good and gets at why making a blanks-only gun only gets you so far. To try and put it another way: at the end of the day, you still have an explosion of hot gasses that needs to be channeled away from the shooter, and there's always going to be a risk that some obstruction in the barrel will either block the hot gasses and cause the gun itself to explode, or come loose and turn into a projectile. Inert replicas or Airsoft replicas are cheap and easy to make because they only have to mimic the outer appearance of a gun, not its inner workings. If you wanted to make a blanks-only replica that convincingly looks and sounds like the real thing, you've basically got to recreate an entire working gun, since the mechanics involved will be largely the same.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:00
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Songbearer posted:Jesus loving christ my dude having a joke is one thing but wishing a violent ballistic Baldwin death on every poster in here is real dark hot cocoa on the couch posted:in the end, alec baldwin comes for us all
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Oct 26, 2021 17:29
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a lot of states still have the death penalty. perhaps the for-profit prison industry could sell death row inmates to whatever production alec baldwin is involved in. prison labor is cheap, non-unionized, and alec baldwin’s insatiable lust for blood can be isolated to those already condemned. maybe throw in a perk for the laborers — if you manage to survive through 10 productions you win your freedom. (nobody has ever lasted that long, but it would be a great premise for an alec baldwin tv show if anyone wants to pitch it.)
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Oct 26, 2021 17:31
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My nephew does FX for movies. I asked him if there's a need for a gun that shoots on a set and here's what he said: Yes, there is absolutely 0% reason to ever have a working gun on a set (other than maybe for a security guard). I've done hundreds of gun blasts in my career. You add a tiny flash of fire for two frames and some stock smoke afterward. If you want to get fancy you can rotoscope the hand and the gun to make it kick back. You can even make the back part of the gun slide out for 3 frames. You can also add a little flash of light on the person firing the gun. But it's all so easy because it lasts 2 or 3 frames. I can do like 20 of them in a day. The cost of paying a gun specialist to load blanks into a working gun ($1,500 ish) is probably 50 times what I get paid to do one VFX gun blast ($25 ish). The question is why would someone push for having a working gun on set?
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Oct 26, 2021 17:34
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its so weird that all these VFX guys keep coming out and saying you can do it with VFX.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:36
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typical computer nerds trying to steal good honest blue collar jobs
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Oct 26, 2021 17:39
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twit666 posted:My nephew does FX for movies. I asked him if there's a need for a gun that shoots on a set and here's what he said: Yes, there is absolutely 0% reason to ever have a working gun on a set (other than maybe for a security guard). I've done hundreds of gun blasts in my career. You add a tiny flash of fire for two frames and some stock smoke afterward. If you want to get fancy you can rotoscope the hand and the gun to make it kick back. You can even make the back part of the gun slide out for 3 frames. You can also add a little flash of light on the person firing the gun. But it's all so easy because it lasts 2 or 3 frames. I can do like 20 of them in a day. The cost of paying a gun specialist to load blanks into a working gun ($1,500 ish) is probably 50 times what I get paid to do one VFX gun blast ($25 ish). my uncle works for hollywood and he said he saw alec baldwin drinking the blood of the victim and harvesting her soul right afterward, speaking dark incantations and casting a hex on everyone present on set that day. wondering why we even let alec baldwin speak when we know he's an immortal lich who has a gun for a phylactery????
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Oct 26, 2021 17:40
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punishedkissinger posted:its so weird that all these VFX guys keep coming out and saying you can do it with VFX. it looks perfect, you'd have to be a real auteur to disagree 
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Oct 26, 2021 17:42
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A-RANG!
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Oct 26, 2021 17:43
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Personally I feel there should be a spectrum between hot and cold guns.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:45
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mrfart posted:Personally I feel there should be a spectrum between hot and cold guns. The truth is in the middle cap guns edit: do they still make cap guns?  I guess I played with gunpowder a lot as a kid
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Oct 26, 2021 17:51
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A lukewarm gun for Cool Hand Luke
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Oct 26, 2021 17:51
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capguns were fun and one of the only toys you could get at a bodega
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Oct 26, 2021 17:53
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twit666 posted:My nephew does FX for movies. I asked him if there's a need for a gun that shoots on a set and here's what he said: Yes, there is absolutely 0% reason to ever have a working gun on a set (other than maybe for a security guard). I've done hundreds of gun blasts in my career. You add a tiny flash of fire for two frames and some stock smoke afterward. If you want to get fancy you can rotoscope the hand and the gun to make it kick back. You can even make the back part of the gun slide out for 3 frames. You can also add a little flash of light on the person firing the gun. But it's all so easy because it lasts 2 or 3 frames. I can do like 20 of them in a day. The cost of paying a gun specialist to load blanks into a working gun ($1,500 ish) is probably 50 times what I get paid to do one VFX gun blast ($25 ish). The push is because cgi guns look like poo poo and give the actor less to work with. Obviously using cgi is much safer and you can’t really fault anyone for doing it instead, but there’s pretty clear reasons a director would demand real guns on set, real stunts on real locations, real large animals, etc
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Oct 26, 2021 17:54
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CGI all the actors in and leave only real guns on the set suspended with ropes and pulleys, duh
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Oct 26, 2021 17:56
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My that month went by quickly
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Oct 26, 2021 17:57
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The real answer here is simple: just go back to radio serials.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:59
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SilvergunSuperman posted:My that month went by quickly lol
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Oct 26, 2021 18:00
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Compromise: the only real guns allowed on sets from now on should be this clownshoe flamethrower so it's at least worth everyone's time and safety https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDGEshpuOhA
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Oct 26, 2021 18:01
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Has anyone stopped to consider that scene from "Child's Play 3" and the tragedy that occurred on set due to the negligence of the Red Team??
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Oct 26, 2021 18:05
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As an actor, let me tell you, if you pay me more I can act so hard you'll believe it's a real gun. I can do it 20 times a day.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:08
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sun's out guns o*kapow* AARGH
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Oct 26, 2021 18:11
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Just hire people that are good at getting shot. Phil LaMarr did all his own stunts in pulp fiction and he’s still going strong.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:11
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Klyith posted:The thing I'm wondering is, the Holywood gun system all seems very hodge-podge. Like every production is hiring an individual armourer that does their own thing. Why isn't there a company that makes a whole standard set of replica guns produced or modified to fire only blanks, supplied with ammo that works correctly and minimizes the danger? Extra credit would be make them incompatible with standard ammo so that an accident like this would be completely impossible. I dunno, for all the dozens and dozens of tv shows and movies every year that feature guns, sounds like it'd be a sustainable business. The secret of Hollywood (and film production in general) is that, despite the massive amounts of money involved, it's still a relatively small industry. Like, just over 37,000 people in the US work in movie and video production. That's comparable to the number of employees at a regional grocery chain like Harris Teeter. So while there are a lot of attempts at standards and best practices, every production is essentially its own small business that is operating based entirely on who is there and what they know. ChunTheUnavoidable posted:Actors should be unbelievably stupid and ethereally beautiful. We shouldn’t even teach them the alphabet, much less gun safety A worthwhile anecdote here: When you see an actor in front of a computer screen, if the screen image isn't 100% simulated in post, then what you are seeing is an animation that has been created and worked out beforehand, so that nothing the actor does with the mouse/keyboard will have any effect on what is shown and they can't unintentionally gently caress it up. Gutcruncher posted:The push is because cgi guns look like poo poo and give the actor less to work with. Obviously using cgi is much safer and you can’t really fault anyone for doing it instead, but there’s pretty clear reasons a director would demand real guns on set, real stunts on real locations, real large animals, etc CGI guns, especially in TYOOL 2021, are perfectly fine unless you've got a completely dogshit vfx team (and if you've only got the budget for a dogshit vfx team, your production probably couldn't afford an armorer anyways). All the extremely boomer takes about CG being garbage are really ridiculous.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:13
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