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Any actual anecdotes would be massively oversharing (they say, after revealing medical details), but suffice to say I developed a semi-healthy view of disabled sexuality early in my sexual awakening. To the point where when I first heard of Katawa Shoujo I thought, "Oh hey, that's great! Why hasn't there been more of this stuff?" and then I went and found that oh, oh yeah, most of the disabled porn is just furthering the objectification of women, often literally. I don't feel comfortable discussing specifics, so it would almost certainly gross every single one of you out.
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Oct 26, 2021 23:02
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 20:13 |
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Lois McMaster Bujold's "Vorkosigan" novels feature, for most of the series, a physically disabled protagonist who is a healthily sexual man, though I cannot speak too much on how "good" they are about it. Miles Vorkosigan, the main series protagonist, is born with a form of brittle bone disorder caused by chemical damage in the womb, and dwarfism from his bones not growing right: his parents are high nobility of his homeworld of Barrayar, and they barely survived an assassination attempt by poison gas while his mother Cordelia is pregnant. A ways into the series Miles gets most of his bones replaced with synthetics, but he's still left with a lot of health issues related to that chemical damage as well as further damage he picks up from his espionage career, including a seizure disorder. On top of that, Barrayaran culture is also extremely hostile to disability, especially if you're born with it - the world's biome is not good to humans, with a lot of plants having carcinogenic or mutagenic properties that created a whole slew of congenital issues, so "muties" are loathed and feared. The first book from his perspective, The Warrior's Apprentice, has Miles frequently down and bemoaning his own love life because of a lot of the issues being discussed - the infantilization, fetishization, and the eugenics-related repulsion from others. He's contrasted strongly with his cousin Ivan Vorpatril, an able, tall, and handsome example of Barrayar's physical ideal for men. Even on the supposedly open-minded world of Beta Colony, most of the people interested in Miles were blatantly fetishizing his disabilities. His love life gets a lot better over the series because he's wildly charismatic, and comes to understand the advantages he has had that protected him from a lot of Barrayar's hostility to disability. It culminates later in the series in a loving (and active) marriage to a local woman, along with him realizing that his high station makes him a de facto spokesman for the disabled and "mutated" on his homeworld. His wife momentarily fetishizes his scars (some related to his disability, but most related to a violent and dangerous career) more than anything else about his physical condition. Miles himself also presents a lot of (often male) nerd wish fulfillment - a much more extreme case of the stereotypes about nerds' general weakness crossing into outright physical disability, but still triumphing by his wits and getting the girl at the end. I can see how Miles might be taken as one of those "disability conferring special ability elsewhere" type plots. He's surrounded by smart people with forceful personalities, but for Miles it's pretty much his compensatory super-power. Some other disabilities come up over the course of the series, some of which are much stronger spoilers to talk about than others. Medical technology is very robust, though, with most people able to recover fully from non-lethal accidents (via easily-replaced limbs and organs), and pre-natal gene screenings to deal with congenital disorders. Bujold skirts around the subtler potential of eugenics in these gene screenings, presenting them entirely about preventing conditions that could kill you out of nowhere when you're in your teens or 20s - but she also has an antagonistic society, the Cetagandans, who openly practice eugenics in an attempt to create a super-human nobility. And unpacking the Cetas is beyond me here. (Or unpacking Beta Colony, either, who are basically the "nice" liberal social democracy of the setting. They deliberately engineered a, uh, "fully-functional" intersex population known conventionally as herms. There is a lot to talk about with Beta's attitudes toward sexuality and gender, but definitely not for this thread.) And before I wrap up, a  Content Warning for rape and sexual violence:Sexuality has Issues in this series sometimes. As a rule, you can expect respect and consent to feature in Miles's relationships. He's sometimes a self-centered idiot about it, but still basically respects his partners' autonomy. When the series strays beyond Miles as the POV character, it can get dark. Shards of Honor, centered around his mother Cordelia, involves rape used as torture during a war, and Cordelia herself is nearly raped. Sergeant Bothari, an early recurring character, is one of the "tools" used during that torture, but he's also got very deep mental health issues and almost certainly some kind of psychological disability that's being exploited. Some of the consequences of this come back around in Warrior's Apprentice. Another character who starts appearing in the mid series, Mark, is basically inextricable from issues of sexual abuse - Miles suspects Mark shows signs of having been sexually abused during his upbringing, and the book Mirror Dance which focuses on Mark should feature a giant WARNING WARNING about lots of further sexual violence, mostly done to Mark but also at least once by Mark. (As well as some dabbling in eating disorders, and your standard questionable fictional understanding of Dissociative Identity Disorder.) Mark's further appearances do involve, as a side element, seeking help and healing, though. Still, I am very leery of ever going back to that particular book. You know the "joke" of how fantasy and sci-fi authors start having weird sex stuff filter into their work as time goes on? It's kind of like Bujold really wanted to get as much sex weird out in one place as possible, and dumped that in (mostly) the back half of Mirror Dance. Once again, I can't really speak to how good these books actually are on matters of disability and sexuality, or disability in general. Through Miles, they feel mostly respectful to me, but I am also physically abled and neurotypical, and I think Bujold is as well, so I'm missing whatever she may have missed too. (Setting aside that not everyone disabled or neurodivergent is going to have the exact same experience to comprehensively write about anyway.) But they're also a dramatic action series, which means Bad poo poo Happens for the sake of putting people through bad things, and some of those things will feature peoples' physical and mental disabilities getting exploited. The good guys are largely actually good about other people's disabilities, but beyond that... hell, I'm not the most qualified judge. I will absolutely defer to others on that front. disposablewords fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Oct 27, 2021 |
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Oct 27, 2021 00:38
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While not wanting to derail into a Vorkosigan discussion, I feel that if we're going to bring it up there should be some manner of warning that sexuality depictions in the books are not all happy and good (as I wouldn't want someone wandering in expecting romance and then running smack into war crimes) and that there is another character in the series for whom discussion of disability and sexuality is central to the character, but I'm completely unqualified to speak on how well or not-well it's handled. Once Miles gets past teenagerhood, his disabilities are not written as having a major impact on his relationships or ability to form them. The same cannot be said about Mark.
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Oct 27, 2021 14:27
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Update 73: Pangrammatic Window (Act 3, Scenes 4-5) (Silence) .png)  SHIZUNE: "..."  MISHA: "Unbelievable~! It's like I'm really watching an interrogation~! This is not a cop show! Guests definitely have responsibilities, but hasn't he ever heard of being a gracious host~? Really~!" Misha attempts to sloppily mimic Shizune's angry, chopping gestures as best as she can. She has the expression down too, but the tone of her voice is the same as ever, thus lacking the anger necessary to bring it all together. MISHA: "Wahaha~. Don't take it too hard, Hicchan~! Shicchan's dad does this to everyone, I think it's like a joke~."  HISAO: "That was the most aggressive joke possible." I'm also not at all convinced that it was a joke, considering this hastily staged retreat, but this isn't a good moment to discuss how Shizune's father might be a jerk. Katawa Shoujo OST - The Student Council (Shizune’s Theme) MISHA: "Hicchan, let's go shopping!" .png) SHIZUNE: “[You haven't been to town yet, have you? It'll be fun. We can see the sights, and go to an amusement park, maybe eat at a good restaurant.]" HISAO: "We just had lunch." Even though I didn't eat much. SHIZUNE: “[It's okay, in that case, we just have to make sure that today is so busy that by the time we're done, it will be time for dinner.]" MISHA: "It works out perfectly~! Come on, Hicchan~!" They immediately flank me and hook my arms with theirs, Shizune taking one arm and Misha taking the other. At first, we almost trip over each other. Shizune walks at a very brisk pace, and Misha has an unusually bouncy way of moving around. .png) We get the hang of it soon enough, and I notice we're going to town by cutting through the park. It doesn't seem efficient, so I'm guessing this is the scenic route. Walking this way hinders how we can communicate with each other significantly. I can't talk to Shizune at all. Shizune and Misha are down to one handed gestures only. It feels nice, though, so I don't mind too much. When I make a crack about it to Misha, she responds with mild confusion. MISHA: "Really, Hicchan~? Hm... If you really want Shicchan's attention, you can tell me, and then I can tap her on the shoulder for you." HISAO: "You could just let me go and I'll do it myself. How are you going to tap her on the shoulder from over there?" MISHA: "Like this~!" She suddenly stops in her tracks roughly, and tries to reach behind her back and across my shoulders to get Shizune's attention. She succeeds, but only because when Misha stopped, I had to as well or we'd all fall over. Obviously, Shizune had to jerk to a halt too. The sight makes Misha let out one of her characteristic laughs, which shakes us around more, and Shizune starts flailing her free hand to get her to stop, which only causes her to laugh harder. It is pretty funny to watch her getting so flustered, and I start laughing too. Katawa Shoujo OST ~ Passing of Time .png) Katawa Shoujo OST - Raindrops and Puddles .png) I've been neglecting my sign language studies, so I should probably spend some time studying up on it. Although, I think I've learned a lot just by osmosis. I'm very proud of that, and will have to be careful not to brag about it. Most of the books I brought with me aren't manuals on learning sign language, but studies about different signing “dialects.” I know Shizune has some secret signals with Misha that only the two of them know the meaning of. fter seeing a couple of them, this book caught my eye in the school library. Maybe I should incorporate some examples into my own signing, to mess with them, because I'm pretty sure that they have started using their code words more when I started learning sign language. That will teach them. After a quick break for a shower, I resume practicing my signing in the guest room mirror. Yesterday, I crashed my fingers against each other pretty hard. It still smarts, and I don't want a repeat of that to happen again. .png) I hear knocking on the door behind me and turn to find Hideaki standing inside the doorway, staring at me. How polite of him to knock, but usually you don't open the door first.  HIDEAKI: "What are you doing?" HISAO: "I'm practicing sign language. How long have you been standing there?" HIDEAKI: "I did not see anything." That isn't the point. I don't even know what he means by that. It's not like I was doing something that I would be ashamed to have people see me doing. Although, sign language must look strange to most people. I'm only used to it from being around Shizune and Misha so much. HISAO: "I'm brushing up on my sign language, and reading about it too. Stuff like the history of it, even though they cover it in sign language class." HIDEAKI: "Your school teaches sign language as a class?" HISAO: "Yeah. One of the first things they brought up was that it's not very common to do that. I guess we're very international, or something." HIDEAKI: "It looks fun." HISAO: "Well, I wouldn't call it fun." .png) HIDEAKI: "If you do not enjoy this, it seems like a lot of work to go through just to talk to my sister." HISAO: "Why does everyone keep saying that?" Hideaki's mouth twitches like he was about to laugh, but he restrains himself. Come to think of it, he hasn't laughed once since I've met him. I could take it as a compliment that he doesn't laugh at me, but I'm curious to see it. HISAO: "Laugh." (Silence) HIDEAKI: "... Why?" It was the fastest and most direct way I could think of towards accomplishing my goal. .png) HIDEAKI: "Can you teach me sign language?" He says it plainly, but his body language is nervous, showing that he clearly needs to put some effort in to ask. I guess Hideaki likes his sister after all. I'd think Misha is a lot more approachable though, so I wonder why he didn't ask her. Secretly, I'm shouting “yes!” inside. I had thought he wanted to learn sign language and even brought it up, but he had evaded the subject skillfully. It turns out I was right after all. I don't really know why this makes me so pleased. HISAO: "Sure." But now that I think about it, I'm not a sign language teacher. I don't even know where to start. In class, I'd be learning stuff gradually over a week. Does Hideaki expect me to teach him anything usable in a one-day crash course? Katawa Shoujo OST - School Days My teacher spent a couple days just giving a history of sign language. I decide to start off with that, to buy some time while I figure out how I can segue it into the hard stuff. Five minutes in, Hideaki raises his hand. HIDEAKI: "I don't understand what you are doing." HISAO: "Uh... well, you can't just jump into teaching, you know. You have to ease into it. It's like when you go swimming, you don't just jump in the lake like in some movie." HIDEAKI: "I do not swim." It's like scientists managed to create a process to suck out all the hyperactive, infuriating, and childish qualities of a small child and then implant them into the dad, creating a raging jerk dad, and leaving behind Hideaki. I begin to feel claustrophobic, despite the fact that the guest room is three times bigger than my dorm room and there's just the two of us in here. It's all in my head, I know it, and I don't care. I still use it as an excuse to move the lesson outside. .png) It's a lot easier to concentrate out here. Even the precious few seconds it took to relocate managed to allow me to sort my thoughts. There were no questions during this time. Hideaki can't seem to talk and walk at the same time. Eventually, however, I start to realize that if I'm going to teach him anything I have to keep the lesson constantly moving. The second there's an opening for it, he'll ask a question, which will lead to more questions. Then there's no end to it. The second time he asks me why a certain hand motion means what it does, and I have to reach deep into my memory to look for etymology I don't know about a gesture I only knew about a month longer than him, I start looking for an out. HISAO: "Hideaki, let's take a break." HIDEAKI: "Okay. What is your school like?" This kid is like a little reporter, but it makes sense for someone his age to be curious, and this is one question I don't mind. HISAO: "What's it like? I never really thought about it. It's on top of this mountain, so it feels kind of isolated and lonely up there sometimes, even though that's also why it has a pretty great view. The students there are interesting. Actually, I felt bad at first. You know what kind of school it is, right?" HIDEAKI: "Yes." HISAO: "I felt bad because I didn't want to go there. I don't even remember exactly what I was thinking at the time. Probably it was something like, a school for crippled people would be a depressing place. They were telling me to go be forgotten there. Then, everyone there was just living their lives, for the most part. So I felt even worse. It wasn't different at all, so I felt like kind of a jerk. Shizune was the first person I met. She's in most of my classes. Misha, too, they're always together. I guess the school is accommodating enough to pair them up as much as possible. There's this girl in my class, Hanako, whom I feel bad for. She has these burns, and seems to have a complex about them. But I think she looks fine. She's a cute girl. And friends with Lilly, too. You know Lilly, right? Does she bring up Hanako?" HIDEAKI: "Yes, sometimes." HISAO: "I'm trying to remember who else is interesting. We have a Emi Ibarazaki who runs on these prosthetics. There's this one girl, Rin, who doesn't have arms, but she's a great painter. All her art has this harsh, alive quality. Have you ever been to Yamaku? You've probably seen some of it hanging around. A little weird, sometimes, but I've always heard that artistic and creative types are like that. That reminds me, Kenji Setou is pretty weird, too. But he can be interesting, at least." HIDEAKI: "You are also interesting." HISAO: "Is that bad? And what's with that tone? What does that even mean? Are you saying I'm weird, Hideaki?" HIDEAKI: "You talk a lot." My first instinct is to go on the defensive, but the more I think about it, he has a point. HISAO: "That's right, I do talk a lot. I don't think I used to. I think... It's probably because of all the time I spend around Shizune and Misha. Talking with them, I get caught up in all their circular logic and just how they do everything. I feel like I'm going to be drowned out, or left behind." HIDEAKI: "My sister can drown you out?" HISAO: "It's not like she's literally talking over me and stuff, obviously. It's hard to explain. They have more energy than I do. It's like, an aggressiveness. I don't feel like I have to match it, but I want to. I think maybe your sister has that effect on people." HIDEAKI: "..." HISAO: "Do you look up to your sister?" He stares at me blankly, tense and confused as to how to react to the question. (Silence) .png) HIDEAKI: "I will be better than Shizune." HISAO: "Better at what?" HIDEAKI: "At... everything." HISAO: "Like what?" HIDEAKI: "I can do magic tricks." HISAO: "You mean like telling people you've got their nose, or more like the kind of magic where you pull a rabbit out of your rear end?" He doesn't look happy. Someday, I will see Hideaki laugh. I might just try tickling him, if I have to. (SLAM Sound Effect) .png) The back door flies open and Jigoro strides out of it, keeping his back straight and taking giant, slow, regal strides, like either a king or a huge jackass. I try to turn away, using the train of logic that if I can't see him, he can't see me. Unfortunately, it doesn't pan out and he comes over so fast it's like he appeared out of the air over my shoulder. Katawa Shoujo OST - Fripperies  JIGORO: "Oho. What's up here? What are you two doing, flailing your hands around? Playing cat's cradle like a bunch of girls?" HISAO: "I'm teaching Hideaki some sign language. What about you, Mr. Hakamichi?" He narrows his eyes suspiciously, as if he's not used to people being polite to him. JIGORO: "I am writing an autobiography of my life and times. And by “writing” I mean I am dictating it to my biographer. Unfortunately, she is running late. Unprofessional. Perhaps you should read it when it is published later this year. I can put you on the waiting list. Maybe it will give you the moral compass you seem to lack in your life, and inspire you to stop sucking." It can't be sustainable for him to be so casually insulting to everyone. Though, Hideaki is likely too detached to even notice, Shizune is deaf, and most of the insults must fly over Misha's head. But surely Akira must have an opinion on this. I try not to think about it. If he is doing this to psyche me out, then I have to stay calm or he wins. He must absolutely, definitely not win. This must be how Shizune feels. HISAO: "How old are you?" JIGORO: "Forty-six." HISAO: "That doesn't seem old enough to justify writing a biography. I mean, that's not even old. Don't most people start writing their memoirs a lot later than that?" JIGORO: "Shut up, boy. I am going to give you advice: do not talk about matters of age with people older than you. You are less than half my age, you have no right to talk about old. I have an ulcer older than you." He should get that checked out. He might have a point though, he is definitely older than I am. JIGORO: "...Either way, even if we were the same age, I wouldn't have to explain myself to you, sweater vest." HISAO: "Eugh." JIGORO: "Why do you make that noise? Are you mad? Well, obviously. Good. Your sweater is terrible, and I want you to feel bad about it. The burn tells me it's working." HISAO: "I like my sweater." JIGORO: "I'm sure you like huffing glue, too. That doesn't make it right." HISAO: "I don't huff glue. Where did you get the impression I do?" HIDEAKI: "That is slander." I wonder how Hideaki knows what slander is. Maybe Jigoro is a lawyer. I can sort of see that, although I thought only TV lawyers were this antagonistic. I don't know if I should take the chance and ask if that's his job. HISAO: "He's right. It is slander. Are you a lawyer?" JIGORO: "I was guessing, a guess based on the fact that you are stupid. It's like how you are assuming I am a lawyer, except you have no reason to think that. If you want to know what I do so badly, why don't you preorder my autobiography? Now you are insulting my book, and, by extension, my entire life. What gives you the right to do that? Arrogant. I'm trying to think of how I could make you understand my struggle. Maybe by beating you. With my autobiography. I hope you walk away from the beating having learned a valuable lesson, like not making assumptions." HIDEAKI: "Assault..." But he made an assumption too, that I huffed glue. I consider calling him out on this glaring example of hypocrisy, but I don't think it's worth it. He would probably explain his way out of it by saying “Shut up, boy.” JIGORO: "Back in my day, children were seen and not heard, and to be an adult meant having experienced many hardships. With even a glance, people could instantly judge a man's character. Childhood existed only to temper you for adulthood. When you look at me, can you not see the catalogue of my experiences even at a glance?" HISAO: "Uh... maybe. Were you a swordfighter?" He could also be Hawaiian, and a werewolf. HISAO: "Wait, didn't you tell me before not to make assumptions? Now, you just asked me to assume stuff. And you're saying everyone when you were my age did it. And that had to be in, like, the '80s. That wasn't even that long ago!" I'm ready to give him a piece of my mind, for talking like he had to walk fifteen miles in the snow to ride a coal train, that he had to shovel coal into himself, before climbing up a mountain while fighting ogres to get to school. But, now that I finally want a fight, Jigoro is happy to have a good thing going just continuing to ramble about how difficult it was growing up one generation ago, twirling his sword like a baton and stopping occasionally to yawn or check the time. The tardiness of his autobiographer is still foremost in his mind. That means the whole time he's been insulting me, he must have been doing it just to pass the time. To add insult to insult, his watch is also really nice. JIGORO: "...When I was your age, kids had responsibilities. Not like today. Sickening. No one thinks about the consequences of their actions any more. They just do whatever they want, thinking no one will hold them accountable since they are young." It's odd, that description could fit Shizune and Misha. I thought something similar only yesterday. But it only fits them slightly. JIGORO: "Look at yourself. An amoral, directionless, delinquent glue-huffer, with a complete lack of etiquette and absolutely no fashion sense. You are tomorrow's Japan. Disgraceful. Is this the future of this once-great country?" HISAO: "I know someone you would get along well with." JIGORO: "Don't interrupt! Who? One of your friends? Why would I want to talk to some awful teenager? Have you even been listening? Why are you so rude, boy? Your attitude is not one that will make you a lot of friends." HISAO: "I wish you would stop giving me so much advice." Or at least, I wish he would give me advice that he would have the decency to adhere to himself. JIGORO: "Where have you been?" HISAO: "Huh?" JIGORO: "Not you, idiot." (Silence) .png) SHIZUNE: "..." HISAO: "Oops. I didn't notice you there." Shizune smiles and gives a short wave. Her arrival made Jigoro stop talking, so I'm already happy to see her for that reason alone. SHIZUNE: “[Misha and I decided to go into town again. Hisao, I noticed you were looking at some clothes yesterday in a store window, and I thought I would go back and buy some of them for you. It was supposed to be a surprise, though.]" She looks annoyed that the surprise is ruined, even though she ruined it herself. SHIZUNE: “[Here you go]!" HISAO: "Thanks." SHIZUNE: “[Misha wanted to cut her hair. I told her not to, but she said it was too hot for the summer.]" HISAO: "Yeah? I don't know, that makes a lot of sense to me. It must be like an oven under there. I want to see it. Where is Misha, anyway?" MISHA: "Over here~! Hi, Hicchan~! Hi, Mr. Shicchan's-father~! Hi, Hideaki~!" .png)  Misha’s sprite zooms right to left behind the others. But something’s wrong. JIGORO: "..." Katawa Shoujo OST - Hokabi .png) Misha runs around us once in a wide circle before stopping next to Shizune. For the first time, she hasn't put her hands over my eyes, although now I see she has bags of her own to carry, so it's not like she could have even if she wanted to. Although I am positive she's tried before. Her meticulously styled curls are gone now, in favor of a much shorter, sportier look. Misha looks even happier than usual, probably because she knows she won't have to wake up at the crack of dawn every morning just to do her hair. JIGORO: "What is that haircut? You look like an intern. Your old haircut merely made you look like you were wearing a pink judge wig. Judge to intern is a huge demotion." SHIZUNE: “[Hisao, is he saying something insulting? Tell him not to insult my friends!]" HISAO: "Don't insult my friends." JIGORO: "Which one of you is talking?" HISAO: "Both of us. I agree with her." MISHA: "Hehehe~! What do you think, Hicchan?" SHIZUNE: “[You should have kept it like it was.]" MISHA: "Aw~... Hicchan, you look disappointed, you don't like it either?" HISAO: "Well, yeah, I'll admit I kind of liked your old haircut more, but I think this one is nice too. It suits you." MISHA: "Aw, thanks, Hicchan~!" JIGORO: "Touching. If you like it so much, maybe you two should trade." HISAO: "You can't trade a haircut." JIGORO: "What a shame. Even her old haircut would suit you so much more than your current, slacker haircut. Awful. As for you... Hmmm... Actually, this is much less garish than your other haircut. I like it." MISHA: "Ahahahaha~! Really? Thanks, Mr. Shizune's-dad~!" JIGORO: "It's Mr. Hakamichi. Talk like a normal person." MISHA: "Hm~? I don't understand~! Okay, okay okay~! I'll call you Mr. Hakamichi!" JIGORO: "Agh, it's like speaking to a slide whistle. Contemptible. Where's my biographer? Hideaki!" He starts quietly muttering to himself and walks off. I guess a wannabe-cranky old man like Jigoro would at the very least be hesitant to yell at girls. Suddenly, he doubles back, unable to resist his urge to have the last word. JIGORO: "And another thing, you do not have to be so loud. I do not like being shouted at." MISHA: "What? Shouting~? I'm not shouting~!" I can't think of anyone more unqualified to talk about what's garish or to chastise someone else on shouting at people. It's like a parade of hypocrisies and the hits just keep coming. An unusual reaction seems to be taking place. Misha apparently finds Jigoro funny and laughs pretty much every time he says something, which only makes him berate her harder. I guess this is what they call a vicious circle. Misha's voice is punctuated with explosions of laughter and seems to come from everywhere. On the other hand Jigoro's is booming and directed like a cannon. In any case, they are both unbelievably loud. The more they talk to each other, the more they seem to play off each other's volume and get louder. MISHA: "Ow~! My ears hurt~!" JIGORO: "WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?" Shizune vanishes from the screen before it goes dark. Shizune's hands wrap around my eyes from behind, something I'm so used to Misha doing that for the first time I find myself confused by it, since Misha is in front of me. She lets go and holds a finger up to her lips. SHIZUNE: “[What a perfect distraction! Now's our opportunity. Let's sneak off.]" HISAO: “[Why do we have to sneak off? Why not just walk off?]" SHIZUNE: “[It wouldn't be as fun. It's decided: it's a secret mission. Escape without being detected. Extract Hideaki for bonus points.]" (Silence) Already, she has simplified the situation into a game. Shizune quietly slides away from the scene and begins edging towards the house. I walk towards it, normally.
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Oct 27, 2021 14:55
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This guy is so cartoonishly bad dad that it's almost comical.
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Oct 27, 2021 15:16
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I'm just baffled. Individually his statements are insults but it's all so all over the place that he just communicates that he finds teenagers threatening.
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Oct 27, 2021 15:46
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Only just noticed that both Shizune and Hideaki stop themselves laughing. I don't think the reason why has come up yet, so, that should be "fun". *inb4 I missed it while skimming the Wall of Insults
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Oct 27, 2021 16:00
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RIP Misha's drills
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Oct 27, 2021 16:14
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Tulip posted:I'm just baffled. Individually his statements are insults but it's all so all over the place that he just communicates that he finds teenagers threatening. Dude's the platonic ideal of a midlife crisis. Of course he finds teenagers threatening, they give him exactly the respect he deserves while he ain't getting any younger and he hates both things. mycelia posted:Only just noticed that both Shizune and Hideaki stop themselves laughing. I don't think the reason why has come up yet, so, that should be "fun".  Nice catch.
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Oct 27, 2021 16:49
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Ibblebibble posted:This guy is so cartoonishly bad dad that it's almost comical. If I remember correctly Shizune's mother is never mentioned at all. One can only wonder what she saw in him.
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Oct 27, 2021 16:58
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The only redeeming quality Jigoro has is that we get to see Hisao not take his poo poo and, essentially, ask him "why are you so garbage"
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Oct 27, 2021 17:30
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gegi posted:While not wanting to derail into a Vorkosigan discussion, I feel that if we're going to bring it up there should be some manner of warning that sexuality depictions in the books are not all happy and good (as I wouldn't want someone wandering in expecting romance and then running smack into war crimes) and that there is another character in the series for whom discussion of disability and sexuality is central to the character, but I'm completely unqualified to speak on how well or not-well it's handled. Oof, yeah, my bad for not really thinking of addressing that. Going to edit in something of a warning. I was thinking mostly of Miles while writing that, but sexual stuff gets... fraught much more easily when it's a different character taking center stage. Thanks for the reminder. EDIT: Also, to keep the focus on the game: gently caress Jigoro. Hisao's right that all his "back in my day" poo poo is talking about the 80s, and he's acting like he had some kind of deep post-war hardship life that The Kids These Days can't understand. disposablewords fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Oct 27, 2021 |
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Oct 27, 2021 17:34
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Ibblebibble posted:This guy is so cartoonishly bad dad that it's almost comical. That's sort of what prevents Jigoro from being, like, genuinely appalling, is that he's such a ridiculous cartoon character that he's impossible to take seriously (which is likely why Hisao implies he'd get along well with the game's other resident cartoon character). He's a few bad science ideas away from just being Cave Johnson.
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Oct 27, 2021 20:13
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I admit "it's like talking to a slide whistle" made me laugh.
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Oct 27, 2021 20:18
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Sindai posted:I admit "it's like talking to a slide whistle" made me laugh. 
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Oct 27, 2021 20:25
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disposablewords posted:Also, to keep the focus on the game: gently caress Jigoro. Counterpoint: please do not gently caress Jigoro.
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Oct 27, 2021 20:58
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Funktor posted:Counterpoint: please do not gently caress Jigoro. Well, I want to say we got Shizune and Hideaki out of it. But  , nobody deserves this guy as a father.
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Oct 27, 2021 21:14
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Whoever edited the the wiki article on Jigoro is so up their own rear end it's not even funny. Holy poo poo what an absolute garbage bag of a human being. As cartoonish as it is, I can 100% imagine someone acting like this in real life.  Misha's twin drills though.
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Oct 27, 2021 22:14
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Evil Kit posted:
. Now we don’t even have anything to distract us from her open endorsement of neoconservatism 
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Oct 27, 2021 22:38
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Falconier111 posted:
The "joke" behind the shirt is that a lot of T-shirts are sold in Japan (and Asia in general) with fairly obscure American sports teams printed on them (making fun of stuff like this online was a somewhat problematic meme for quite some time), and basically they're just bought for purely aesthetic reasons with the wearer not actually knowing what it's supposed to mean. I don't have any hard data, but I think the reason they exist is because they're surplus stock of shirts manufactured in Asia for sale at sporting events and the like, and that end up in thrift shops. It's the rough equivalent of an American teenager picking up a band shirt at Goodwill of a band they've never heard of but they think the art looks cool.
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Oct 27, 2021 23:05
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EclecticTastes posted:The "joke" behind the shirt is that a lot of T-shirts are sold in Japan (and Asia in general) with fairly obscure American sports teams printed on them (making fun of stuff like this online was a somewhat problematic meme for quite some time), and basically they're just bought for purely aesthetic reasons with the wearer not actually knowing what it's supposed to mean. I don't have any hard data, but I think the reason they exist is because they're surplus stock of shirts manufactured in Asia for sale at sporting events and the like, and that end up in thrift shops. It's the rough equivalent of an American teenager picking up a band shirt at Goodwill of a band they've never heard of but they think the art looks cool. Okay but where does Misha stand on known unknowns
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Oct 27, 2021 23:47
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Captain Oblivious posted:Okay but where does Misha stand on known unknowns MISHA: “That’s right, everybody~! You work for us, Vacchan~!” Falconier111 fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Oct 28, 2021 |
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Oct 28, 2021 00:02
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This whole leg of the Shizune story makes it feel very out of place with the rest of the routes. It really could have used another revision or two after the other routes were finalized. It's not even the dad being a big rear end in a top hat (certainly he does not help things in the least), but little things like bringing up Hisao woke up at lunch time only for the game to cut to the next day shortly after one scene about escaping the house. The pacing of events covered or glossed over just feel sort of off to me. I'd much rather have read about the student council going through town as the two girls pull Hisao different directions than read about the dad pretending to be an old geezer. Maybe by the end of the route it will all feel like it makes sense. I'll admit I don't remember the specifics of Shizune's story all that well. I do like the friendship(?) developing between Hideaki and Hisao though. It's fun watching Hisao figure out how to deal with a kid while encouraging/helping him to learn sign language.
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Oct 28, 2021 01:10
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At this point it's pretty obvious that Shizune's route has a much greater ratio of slice-of-life content to actual plot of any of the route, fitting Shizune's "seize the day" attitude.
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Oct 28, 2021 06:29
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EclecticTastes posted:That's sort of what prevents Jigoro from being, like, genuinely appalling, is that he's such a ridiculous cartoon character that he's impossible to take seriously (which is likely why Hisao implies he'd get along well with the game's other resident cartoon character). He's a few bad science ideas away from just being Cave Johnson. I was even reading him in Cave Johnson's voice. Part of it is they share a diction style, and that penchant to shift topics rapidly.
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Oct 28, 2021 11:23
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Falconier111 posted:
JIGORO: "It is not! I resent that. Slander is spoken. In print it's libel."
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Oct 28, 2021 11:38
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YaketySass posted:At this point it's pretty obvious that Shizune's route has a much greater ratio of slice-of-life content to actual plot of any of the route, fitting Shizune's "seize the day" attitude. Shizune route was written by the guy who came up with Kenji, so it has a lot of the tone of every scene that had Kenji in it during the common route. In other words, it feels like it's from a completely different VN and has by far the weakest writing (which is a drat shame, because when I played Act 1 Shizune route seemed like it would be the most interesting.)
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Oct 28, 2021 12:12
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Update 74: Closer (Act 3, Scenes 6-7) (Silence) I can't find Shizune at first, but eventually she walks into the main part of the house, sipping a glass of ice water and dangling her glasses back and forth from her free hand. She whips them on as soon as she sees me. Katawa Shoujo OST - Ease .png) SHIZUNE: “[You didn't rescue Hideaki. That means you don't get the bonus points. If you were also being graded on style, I'd have to deduct points for a booooooring escape.]" HISAO: “[It looked like you wanted to talk to me, I didn't know I had to be stylish about it. You know, some say that the most stylish people are the ones that don't try too hard to look cool.]" SHIZUNE: “[You're really cool.]" I wonder how is it that I can pick up on her sarcasm so easily, and how hard it might have been for her to learn the concept of sarcasm without being able to hear. I can't imagine it. HISAO: “[You seem like you're in a good mood.]" Although I guess it isn't really a good mood. It's more that she seems very excited. SHIZUNE: “[I'm in a bad mood.]" Setting her drink down, Shizune sits down on the couch. SHIZUNE: “[I liked her regular hairstyle so much more. It looked so pretty. It was refined and meticulous. Now she looks too sporty and tomboyish.]" HISAO: “[I wouldn't call Misha refined and meticulous. That sounds more like you. You should give it a chance. Grow your hair out and make it look like drills. Hm... actually, maybe this suits you just fine.]" Shizune rubs the frame of her glasses roughly, looking annoyed at the implications behind what I just signed to her. That's fine, because I was totally implying that. She moves a little closer to me when I take a seat. SHIZUNE: “[I'm a tomboy?]" HISAO: “[Well, no one would call you a tomboy. ...Based on appearances.]" Shizune glares at me, unamused. I have to fight to keep a straight face. HISAO: “[Maybe you two should trade haircuts anyway.]" SHIZUNE: "... [You sound like my father.]" It's true. Shizune giggles noiselessly when she sees my displeasure at the realization. Jumping to her feet, she twirls an invisible sword in her left hand while standing up militarily straight and grimacing. A terrifyingly accurate impression. SHIZUNE: “[Anyway, I don't take advice from anyone who wears a blue sweater with brown pants. Where's your sense of color coordination? Dreadful. ...But changing my haircut, that might be fun. Wouldn't it be? I want to see how everyone would react.]" HISAO: “[You must really like playing with people. Sometimes, I think, a little too much.]" No answer. The way she fiddles with her glasses, brow furrowed, tells me that it's because she can't. SHIZUNE: “[It's fun.]" Then, with more confidence and while pulling herself closer to me: SHIZUNE: “[It's fun to drag more and more people into my life.]" HISAO: “[Oh, I see.]" I wonder if I'm included in that number. I want to ask, but am not even sure how I would. Shizune wags a finger preemptively, indicating that she won't be answering such a question anyway. (Silence) She reaches for her glass, but doesn't seem to realize how far she's managed to inch away from it all this time. To prevent herself from tipping over clumsily, Shizune tries to grab on to me, and ends up pulling me on top of her. Katawa Shoujo OST - Lullaby of Open Eyes .png) As I lean over her, I can feel the heat coming off her body and realize how close we are. I can hear her soft breathing and the slight rustling of her clothes as she momentarily fidgets about. A blush starts to creep into her cheeks, but her eyes stare straight into mine, dark and unblinking. It's the same look from the first time I saw her, piercing and devoid of any clear emotions. Just waiting to see what will happen next, like the eyes of a cat. It makes me feel uncomfortable, being looked at in such a way. This is the first time I've been so close to her for an extended period of time, and the mood is different now. The situation now isn't the same as a passing touching of hands or her and Misha's usual games. Shizune's fingers weave together tentatively, but she makes no move to sign. The look in her eyes isn't just nothing, like I'd thought. It's more like expectation. I wonder if maybe I've been following the string of her expectations this entire time. .png) I feel her grabbing me by the shoulders and then gently, but firmly, pushing me off of her. I roll sideways onto the soft couch and pull myself into a sitting position less than a foot from her. The way I feel, she might as well have thrown me ten yards. When I think about it, this is perhaps one of the biggest drawbacks to sign language. Shizune said that the fact that you have to sign your words out with your hands means you have time to reflect on what you say before you say it. But on the other hand, it also means that what would normally just be an awkward silence becomes an insurmountable wall. I'd just blurt out something, anything, to try and dispel the tension I'm feeling right now if I could, but I can't. Ordinarily, I think that what would be normal would be to apologize, and maybe leave. But right now, I wonder if that is even applicable. I can't get past how guilty such an action would seem. Like I were just slinking away. Of course, it's not like I can just play it off like nothing happened, either. That would just be insulting to both of us. So, as much as I don't want to, I apologize quickly, so quickly I forget to sign it. Then I go back to my room. .png) Sighing, I let myself fall backwards into bed. I wish I could just go to sleep right now, but I feel wide awake. .png) I sit up when I hear the door closing and open my eyes to see Shizune sitting in the chair in front of me. SHIZUNE: "..." She asks a question that goes right over my head, due to my surprise. It's not a feeling I'm good at concealing, and I don't think it's what she intended. Whatever she was saying, she backs off, and doesn't attempt to sign again for a while. SHIZUNE: “[This is the first time I've been in your room.]" Shizune tents her fingers and puts on an exaggerated attempt to make herself look embarrassed and modest at the thought. I can't appreciate the joke, just the fact that she's here has me feeling a bit scattered. HISAO: “[Very funny. It isn't even my room. It's your guest room.]" SHIZUNE: “[You still looked startled when I came in.]" The way she says it so factually stings me. HISAO: “[A lot of things make me nervous. You're one of them.]" SHIZUNE: "...?" HISAO: “[Because you're overeager to always get people involved in... whatever you're doing. Whether it's joining the Student Council, or even taking a break. Whether they want to or not.]" SHIZUNE: "..." SHIZUNE: "... ... ... ..." SHIZUNE: "... ..." She signs almost at a crawl, her hands pausing mid-sentence far too much, causing the words to dissipate formlessly before I can even begin to try to understand them. I try not to let on that this is the case. It seems to work, but she looks a little sad, and I regret that I have nothing to say to snap her from the strangely wistful and distant expression she is wearing. All I can do is wait for her to come out of it. .png) SHIZUNE: “[You are right. I want to drag everyone into my life. But, lately, I'm no longer sure if it's the right thing to do.]" HISAO: “[I enjoyed you taking me to your favorite restaurant the other night.]" SHIZUNE: “[It's not like that was my favorite restaurant... I have others I like. I might even be able to rank them by number.]" HISAO: “[Really...]" SHIZUNE: “[This chair is so hard. I want to sit on the bed.]" Motioning to her to go ahead, I wait for her to get off the chair and take her place when she does. Though I didn't intend for it to be, she finds it amusing. (Silence) SHIZUNE: “[Close your eyes.]" HISAO: “[Why?]" SHIZUNE: “[It's a surprise.]" I decide to humor her and close them. I can feel her leaning over me, and suddenly, something soft and moist touches my lips. My body tenses up in surprise. Fortunately, not as awkward a reaction as I could have made. It was just a quick peck, and I almost think that's the end of it, but then she kisses me again, more deeply this time. Her hands slide onto my shoulders, up to my neck, and then back down again. Then across my shoulders and down my arms. I can feel the weight of her body on my legs, and the eroticism of the situation isn't lost on me. At this point, I'm ready to try and open my eyes just a crack, but as if expecting it, she puts her fingers on my eyelids. Seconds later, something ties my hands together at the wrists, and I panic, not knowing what to make of this. My first thought is to ask Shizune what she's thinking. Even though she can't hear me, I'm sure she gets the gist of it. She won't let go of my hands, tracing her fingers over them, from the lines of my palms, over my knuckles, and to my wrists. Katawa Shoujo OST - Letting My Heart Speak .png) HISAO: "Hey, what are you doing? What's this?" Or course, with my hands tied behind my back, I might as well be gagged. A part of me can't help but think that this is what she intended. .png) As if reading my thoughts, a mischievous expression lights up her face, but her blushing doesn't fade. In fact, it only deepens when our eyes meet. Embarrassed, she leans deeper into our partial embrace, hiding her face by burying it in my shoulder and neck. Her hair is soft and tickles me, and I let out a laugh knowing that she won't hear me; won't be offended. .png) Grilled shrimp again, go figure. Maybe it IS random. Anyway, the two awkwardly have sex on the chair; neither of them really knows what they’re doing, which doesn’t stop them. Shizune seems substantially more into it than Hisao is, but his internal monologue confirms he’s having a good time, too. At no point do their clothes come off. Theoretically, I could post all the images here, since they both just looks sweaty, but, well, I think we can leave it mostly implied. Afterwards, I listen to the sound of my heartbeat slowing down until it reaches its normal rhythm. I listen to the sound of Shizune's breathing as it does the same. Her glasses are slightly askew, and this is the first time she isn't messing around with them in some way. I want to straighten them for her, but the second I try, I'm reminded that I can't. Shizune seems to have forgotten it as well. (Silence) Instead of getting up, she presses herself against me in the chair to extend her reach. It's almost as if this is the only position she can think to untie my hands from. That is what I think as I feel her unbinding my wrists. However, she doesn't get off me. Her fingers gently stroke against mine, occasionally bending inwards to run over my palms. It's funny, but I feel more connected to Shizune through this simple act than before. I didn’t notice this until someone pointed it out to me long after playing the route: as her primary method of communication, Shizune’s hands play the same social role as most people’s mouths – including the way they’re silent in a romantic context.She’s kissing him. Shizune stays pressed against me like this for some time. It's a little uncomfortable, but it makes me feel happy, as if I could stay like this for hours. Katawa Shoujo OST ~ Passing of Time .png) Katawa Shoujo OST - Daylight The days since then have passed so quickly that time seemed to slip through my fingers like water. Every time I've tried to talk with Shizune, she has been out running errands or with Misha. I feel as if she's avoiding me. I'm not surprised. Of course it bothers me, but I think the way she's acting seems pretty natural. Then again, it's not like I've been through this before. Whenever I can't find Shizune, I end up running into Misha, and when I do I ask her to help me with my signing. However, she always ends up squirming out of it. We're leaving after today, so I'm determined not to let her escape this time. Once we head back to school, we're probably going to have to start grinding through more student council affairs in preparation for school restarting. I want to brush up on my signing as much as possible by then, even if it's a day's worth. .png) HISAO: "Come on, it's pretty much just having a couple sign language conversations! You do that all the time. Actually, you're doing it right now." MISHA: "Wahaha~, really, Hicchan? That's funny!" Misha temporarily stops her unconscious signing in order to wave her hands in front of her face in denial, but then quickly resumes gesturing everything the both of us are saying to no one in particular. MISHA: "Hicchan, you're so persistent. Suddenly being interested in sign language again... could it be that Hicchan wants to make a career out of it? That's not fair, that was my idea first~! You should be careful, Hicchan. Times change too quickly~... By the time I decided I wanted to be a sign language interpreter, they had cell phones that people could type out whole paragraphs on. Amazing~! Not very good for me, though!" As if she knows that another deferral isn't going to cut it this time, Misha changes her tune pretty quickly to a more apologetic one. MISHA: "I'm sorry, Hicchan, I'm just so~ tired~! Especially lately, even though being with Shicchan is fun, she has way more energy than me! Teaching on top of that would be too~ tiring; I don't have that much stamina! Sorry~!" She doesn't seem very tired, shouting the statement with her usual cheer and vigor. I know it's wrong of me to keep pestering her like this, though. MISHA: "Actually~, Shicchan and I were planning on going shopping today! It's our last chance to pick up some souvenirs." HISAO: "Souvenirs, huh? I almost forgot that I was on vacation. I understand what you're saying. Teaching doesn't seem so easy. Hideaki asked me to teach him how to sign and I was unbelievably lost the whole time. Well, I wonder how it'll work out for you when you become a sign language teacher. You can't get tired too easily doing that." MISHA: "Yeah, right, right~! I hope not! Hicchan, now I'm kind of worried. But~, souvenirs! So~!, some other time, Hicchan. Aha hahaha~. Do you want us to get you something, too?" Just because I understand doesn't mean I don't want her to teach me. I suppose I can't press her any further now, though. Even I'm bothered by how selfish it would seem to do so. I give up. HISAO: "No. Don't get me anything. I'm serious, don't surprise me with a funny shirt or something, okay?" MISHA: "Heheheh~." I don't like the sound of that. Slipping on her shoes, she yells goodbye to the otherwise empty house and opens the door to leave, letting a cool breath of fresh air into the hallway. A tuft of dark hair peeking from the door frame tells me Shizune is waiting for her outside. HISAO: "Good morning." .png) Misha translates for me from beyond the doorway, and Shizune turns around to give me a small wave. Even though it's different from her usual offhand greetings in the smallest ways, there is an unmistakable hesitation there. It leaves me with a vaguely empty and distant feeling. SHIZUNE: "..." MISHA: "Hicchan, you're up early~! Am I interrupting a conversation?" HISAO: "I was trying to get Misha to teach me how to talk to you, but I guess I was being impatient, and it can wait. You two were planning on going shopping today, anyway." Having Misha there, I forget to sign my words as I say them. Unfortunately, since Shizune moved to fill the doorway, Misha is behind her. This brief misalignment in our positions means that what I'm saying is totally lost on her. SHIZUNE: “[I don't understand you at all.]" There are things I want to say that I can't put in a way she would understand, and there are entire conversations that she could have that would go right over my head. I want to tell her now that it won't be that way for much longer. Instead, I just say “never mind” and tell them to have a good time, then wave them off. It seems like everyone is out for the day, so I sit down on the biggest and most comfortable-looking chair in the living room with a book. Not a sign language book, but one of the novels I checked out of the library my first week. That was so long ago. I should really start chipping at that pile of books I borrowed, or at least return them. (Silence) .png) Sixteen pages in, Jigoro walks into the room, a stack of papers in one hand and his sword twirling idly like a baton in the other, casually shaking water from a recent shower from his hair. Upon being seen doing something so ungentlemanly, he freezes like a deer in the headlights, and slowly moves on to smoldering with powerful but baseless fury as he sits down on the couch a few feet away. This is only the third time I've met him and I'm already starting to feel nauseous on reaction. I guess in a way this could be considered a kind of charisma. I haven't even said anything and he already seems less than pleased. It's likely a bad idea to provoke him, and just talking to him may count as provoking him. However, I can't help thinking of the alternative situations that could play out. Let's say I don't open my mouth at all and walk away, maybe to go read in my room or outside. That would definitely go down as an unforgivable insult. He would probably tell me to hold it and destroy me. Either way, not too polite on my part. HISAO: "What are you reading?" JIGORO: "The draft for my autobiography. It is the story of a man who wakes up to find an uninvited guest in his living room, sitting in his chair and reading shallow literary dreck." Katawa Shoujo OST - Everyday Fantasy I've barely started reading the book, I don't even have an opinion on it yet. I can already see how this conversation is going to play out, so I might as well try to steer it in a different direction. HISAO: "Where's Hideaki?" JIGORO: "You even ask questions rudely. Disgraceful. That aside, why would you even ask me such a stupid question? How would I know? Am I my son's keeper?" “Well, you are his dad, and it seems like he does live here, so...” But, I guess I can't say that, tempting as it is. I give up. I already tried to make small talk with him and failed. It's like trying to talk to a brick wall that also hates you. That is my cue to leave and sift through my wallet to see if I have enough money to go to a movie. As I'm about to stand, I have second thoughts. I'm too tired to go through trying to smooth over my problematic situations by trying to continuously walk away from them. t's hypocritical of me to get upset at Misha for trying to defer things when I even run from my own girlfriend. When Jigoro attempts to stop me, I'm almost glad, even though I no longer have any intention to leave. JIGORO: "Wait." He says it with plenty of authority but nothing else, as if it's just a particularly commanding afterthought. Only a very powerful or very arrogant person can tell someone to hold on in such a manner. I'm sort of impressed. JIGORO: "You are in the Student Council with Shizune, aren't you? What is your job there?" HISAO: "I don't think there are specific roles, other than president. Shizune is always trying to round people up to help out here and there. Usually we might get like, one person to pitch in, but otherwise the three of us do whatever needs to be done." It's crossed my mind a couple times, around when I first met her, that Shizune's disquietingly analytical stare might be because of her deafness, but it turns out it's a trait shared by everyone else in her family. JIGORO: "And that is okay with you?" HISAO: "Why wouldn't it be?" JIGORO: "You, Shizune, and that pink-haired girl? Is that really your entire Student Council? With a Student Council that small, they wouldn't even bother to hold elections. I am going to take a guess and say that you didn't join the Student Council, Shizune drafted you into it. You said you do not know exactly what your title is. That makes sense. I suppose if you weren't even elected, you couldn't be expected to know. After all, if you are not elected, you aren't really anything. No one is going to respect a Student Council like that. An unelected body of three people trying to scrounge up the equivalent of temp workers? It must be a sorry school if three kids having a tea party can handle every issue." HISAO: "What's how small it is have to do with anything? If the Student Council gets things done, isn't that enough? It's not just a game, either. Maybe you should actually come to the school one day. If you get there on the right days, you might even be able to see what Shizune is able to accomplish." JIGORO: "Do you think that I have so much free time, that I can afford to waltz over to your boondocks and watch my daughter's feats of self-aggrandizement? I have never been more disgusted in my life." HISAO: "What you're saying is they might as well not have a Student Council, but the fact remains there is one. And Shizune got elected to it, and for her it isn't a meaningless position. In fact, she works very hard for it." JIGORO: "You sound like someone who voted for her." HISAO: "No, I wasn't there for that." JIGORO: "Ha. You didn't even vote for her. Well, besides that - why don't you ask Hideaki about this? Shizune has wanted to be a high school Student Council president since middle school. She would have him read all her practice speeches, wasting his time. For what reason?" This whole time, he hasn't even looked up from thumbing through his manuscript. It's getting increasingly frustrating. HISAO: "Because it isn't a game; we don't run the school, but it's not like we're just playing at it and not taking it seriously." I wonder if it is so wrong to not be a purist. JIGORO: "I have been to your school. Really... The students there..." I can already think of about a million things he might say, and I'm preparing for my heart to sink on hearing any of them. It's funny, they are probably things I've thought before. JIGORO: "They don't even have cleaning duty." That was not what I expected at all. He's also wrong. HISAO: "They do. I should know, I get to skip out on it since I'm in the Student Council." The concept of being wrong confuses Jigoro. I should take this opportunity to go on the attack. It's really odd that I am thinking this way about a simple conversation. HISAO: "It sounds like the last time you were there was really some time ago. If you can leisurely write some memoirs, you can talk to Shizune now and then. Don't you think that she has stuff she is proud of? That's how young people are. We have things to be proud of. If you're writing an autobiography, you should get that." Such an opportunity, and I blew it. I don't know how I was expecting him to react. Maybe introspectively, but Jigoro only grows angrier by the second. Yet as he does, he also seems calmer, in a way. More sure of himself and in control. JIGORO: "Who do you think you are to assume that my life is so easy? You haven't even read my biography, yet you are able to tell me how I should handle all my affairs, including dealing with my own daughter. You could never understand. Even if I were to get up from this couch, walk over to you right now, and punch you in the forehead with brass knuckles with a condensed edition of my life story on them, leaving my biography imprinted in your face, you would not understand. For twelve years, Shizune did not even talk to me, even though I hired multiple tutors and interpreters of all sorts for her to try and get her to become normal. It isn't as simple as you think it is.” .png) JIGORO: "If she does not want to bother with me, then fine. I assume that is normal. When was the last time you talked to your parents?" It has been a while, and I feel ashamed. More so that he caught me than at how easily I could have dropped my parents a phone call or sent them an e-mail, or even a letter, and haven't. This knowledge only makes me feel more ashamed. JIGORO: "I thought so." HISAO: "If I wanted to see my parents, I couldn't. This is different. You aren't that far from her, it's one train ride away!" JIGORO: "That is enough. No means no. You are very persistent. If only it was about something that mattered. I can't see what you may have learned from my daughter aside from that and how to backtalk people. Is that it?" (Silence) The answer is yes. I wasn't this persistent or argumentative before meeting Shizune and Misha. After all, prior to meeting them, I'd just experienced a small death. It's a mystery as to why I refused to join the Student Council in the first place. It took monumental effort just to introduce myself on my first day there. I might have rolled over for anyone and any cause. It might have just been chance that Student Council appealed to me so little that I would fight it. Possibly it was from trying to get away from their nagging so much that I was able to get my energy back. It's a cute idea. I think again about why I'm still here. Arguing with Jigoro is pointless, yet I think I almost looked forward to it. And he is right, I cannot understand him. Even if I did, he wouldn't care. I'm a louse that crawls on a whale: wholly insignificant. He has a confidence that I don't have. Shizune does, and it could be that the reason why I am here now, in an almost-shouting match with her father, is because some of that bravery has rubbed off onto me. However, I don't have anything to keep it going. Still, I hate him. I don't know what I can do. A few months ago, I think I would have punched him and let the consequences play out as they may. But now, I can't risk it. If he were to hit me back, he'd likely kill me. So in the end, the only thing I can do is look at Jigoro in silence, knowing that I have no reply, and hate him, and feel completely at a loss. Oddly, he takes it as defiance. JIGORO: "Hmph. Fine, then. Have fun with that." Picking up his sword and using it to pull himself to his feet, he turns and casually saunters out of the room. I want to throw my book after him, but I'm happy to finally be alone, even if I'm not in the mood to read any longer.
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Oct 29, 2021 15:01
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I do not know how I would handle the possible revelation that this guy doesn't even know that his daughter is deaf.
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Oct 29, 2021 15:14
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Falconier111 posted:
I uh I assume you need a diagnosis to go to Yamaku, right? Shizune has a diagnosis by a specialist where it's written ink on paper that she is loving DEAF you goddamn chimp and you're complaining that she won't talk (to you, it's not like other people matter) because she wants to spite you? *really deep breath* Apologies, I think the post got away from me a bit.
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Oct 29, 2021 15:26
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Omobono posted:I I’m pretty sure he’s one of those parents who just doesn’t care and wants his daughter to talk anyway somehow. They do some wild, stupid poo poo.
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Oct 29, 2021 16:09
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Falconier111 posted:I’m pretty sure he’s one of those parents who just doesn’t care and wants his daughter to talk anyway somehow. They do some wild, stupid poo poo.  I know I shouldn't be surprised by how lovely humanity can be, I really know (intellectually). But how can someone think for half a second that somebody born deaf could even learn to talk. They can't know what sounds are the way people with functioning ears can, and that's kinda important for an insanely complex task like forming soundwaves into speech. It'd be like wanting Lily to become a baseball player, because technically nothing prevents her from performing the physical motions.
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Oct 29, 2021 16:43
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Hey hi your summary kinda glossed over the part of that sex scene where Shizune comes pretty close to giving Hisao a heart attack because he's unable to communicate distress. Protip, everybody, never, EVER completely remove your partner's ability to communicate during sex. It doesn't matter how well you might think you know them, because while they might not have a potentially lethal heart condition, you can never know for sure when someone may end up in emotional distress, or even simply be physically uncomfortable, particularly in the kinds of situations where they might be gagged in the first place. Always, always have some manner of signal established beforehand. In the scene, Hisao only starts noticing trouble right before the end, so it doesn't become too dicey, but if it had taken much longer, Hisao would have been in extreme danger with no effective way of expressing it to Shizune. While I'm at it, we should also talk consent for a moment. Shizune never actually asked Hisao if any of what she was doing was alright with him, nor did she give him an opportunity to tell her to stop. She even prevented him from signing anything of the sort by binding his wrists as her first move. Just because we, the readers, know he was into it, doesn't make that okay. I've been waiting all route to bring this up, because this scene, in particular, is just offensively irresponsible.
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Oct 29, 2021 16:55
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EclecticTastes posted:Hey hi your summary kinda glossed over the part of that sex scene where Shizune comes pretty close to giving Hisao a heart attack because he's unable to communicate distress. Protip, everybody, never, EVER completely remove your partner's ability to communicate during sex. It doesn't matter how well you might think you know them, because while they might not have a potentially lethal heart condition, you can never know for sure when someone may end up in emotional distress, or even simply be physically uncomfortable, particularly in the kinds of situations where they might be gagged in the first place. Always, always have some manner of signal established beforehand. In the scene, Hisao only starts noticing trouble right before the end, so it doesn't become too dicey, but if it had taken much longer, Hisao would have been in extreme danger with no effective way of expressing it to Shizune. Has Hisao actually told Shizune about his condition, though? Shizune has noticed some things iirc but I don't think Hisao has told her the details in this route.
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Oct 29, 2021 17:13
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Even if he hasn't told her, responsible BDSM includes making sure your partner has SOME way to signal 'stop'. You could need to stop for any number of reasons, including that you're just not into it anymore. Would a teenager necessarily know that? No. (I have read published fiction which included a brief "okay, I'm going to chain your hands and put a gag in your mouth now, so if you need to signal me, thump your head against the pillow three times" kind of thing before the kinky scene, but those were characters who knew their way around.) And since HE knows how risky that was Hisao ought to have the sense to talk to her about it later. I have no idea if it's going to come up again or not. It feels like Shizune being pushy is a consistent theme in her route so it would be relevant to actually have a talk about boundaries at some point but I haven't played it and don't know if it happens.
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Oct 29, 2021 17:24
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gegi posted:Even if he hasn't told her, responsible BDSM includes making sure your partner has SOME way to signal 'stop'. You could need to stop for any number of reasons, including that you're just not into it anymore. What if Shizune doesnt know about boundaries because nobody bothered to teach her consent outside of No means No? A verbal No at that. Misha wouldnt help either.
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Oct 29, 2021 17:46
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gegi posted:Even if he hasn't told her, responsible BDSM includes making sure your partner has SOME way to signal 'stop'. You could need to stop for any number of reasons, including that you're just not into it anymore. I'll just say right now that no, it doesn't come up again, at least not this particular moment. And yeah, while they're dumb teens, I think we've established previously that them being teenagers and/or fictional doesn't preclude having a conversation about the things they do that are not okay. Like, yeah, I fully understand why the scene is that way from a narrative perspective, but everything about it is still Bad Decisions especially when the Gallant to this scene's Goofus will be showing up later.
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Oct 29, 2021 17:48
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Omobono posted:
Oralism. But I should let actual Deaf and Hard of Hearing posters be the ones to elaborate further, if they want to. E: Shizune is completely unaware of Hisao's disability, by the way. We only have his word that she even suspects what it is. Doesn't make this situation any less irresponsible, but she at least isn't guilty of that. Falconier111 fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Oct 29, 2021 |
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Oct 29, 2021 18:08
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Once again, uneven plotting. Trying to think of things to say about Shizune here that don't sound dismissive. "Control issues" comes to mind. "Daddy issues" also does, although with a father like THAT, anyone would have issues. Depending on the Act 1 route, Shizune might know Hisao takes a lot of pills, but otherwise, it isn't mentioned. Hisao generally avoids mentioning his health problems unless forced to (like in Emi's route). This is unwise and also 100% relatable.
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Oct 29, 2021 18:16
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It is, really, not too unreasonable for Shizune to just kind of assume Hisao is there like Misha is, as an abled student with some reason adjacent to the school's primary purpose. He avoids explaining his heart and most of the outward signs he's shown can look simply like poor stamina - you're not necessarily in shape even if you're not overweight. She didn't do everything right here, but that's largely from oversights that most adults can easily make. Or things that people are willfully obtuse about to this day even when they think they're being well-meaning about it, because oof.
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Oct 29, 2021 18:37
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