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enki42 posted:I don't think the argument that people are making requires people to fake their position. It's totally possible to genuinely feel strongly about something AND be a complete aggro rear end in a top hat about it. That's probably more likely than faking being mad, but being actually legitimately mad still doesn't excuse being a complete rear end to everyone at all times. People can be legitimately mad but knowingly use a false pretense to express it. People can also be mad at someone/something and develop a post-hoc justification for it that allows them to take it out on someone, both knowingly and unknowingly. You can see this play out when someone rips something outrageous/misleading off twitter and then gets pissed off when it gets debunked and accuse people of defending the status quo. People get accused of bad faith posting because they come in and don't post things they actually want to discuss, they post things that are simply a vehicle for rage against the dems/capitalism/etc. When they get probed for posting bullshit they then claim it was because they attacked the dems/capitalism/etc. The corollary to this is people who are really mad that other people don't hate the dems/capitalism/etc as much as they do, so they come in and post whatever comes up that they think makes the people they hate look stupid. These are both forms of bad-faith posting: both involve posting things that the OP isn't interested in having an open discussion about, but rather the act of posting itself is serving a purpose. People reposting poo poo from fascist twitter accounts aren't doing so because they follow fascists on twitter and think they're a good source of information (I hope), they're doing it because they saw something that they think makes people they hate look stupid and they don't care where it came from. This inevitably devolves into dumb slapfights because the point of the post was never to actually have a substantive conversation about it's contents, so it turns to what the actual point of the post was: gently caress you libs <insert list of historic grudges>.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:02
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Best Friends posted:The post is literally and explicitly denying that genocide is happening. Genocide denial is the specific red line that has been brought up over and over. You are changing the rules to say that now genocide denial is allowed and mod authorized, and the new rule is you can't deny that forced assimilation is happening. Not using the specific term "genocide" while acknowledging the abuses is not genocide denial. Muscle Tracer posted:nope, it's part 3 of Fool of Sound's question. It's about whether you think the event happened / is happening, not the words used to describe it. Seems obvious!
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Oct 27, 2021 17:07
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fool of sound posted:Not using the specific term "genocide" while acknowledging the abuses is not genocide denial. Yeah but that's not how your mods are enforcing "genocide denial" so is this an official change in policy going forwards?
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Oct 27, 2021 17:09
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Best Friends posted:The post is literally and explicitly denying that genocide is happening. Genocide denial is the specific red line that has been brought up over and over. You are changing the rules to say that now genocide denial is allowed and mod authorized, and the new rule is you can't deny that forced assimilation is happening.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:09
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 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 27, 2021 17:10
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The problem isn't even that it's Calvinball it's they if you point out it's Calvinball D&D has to launch intoA Buttery Pastry posted:Forced assimilation is genocide, just not the exterminatory kind. Letting people use another term to describe what is happening in China, the meaning of which overlaps with variants of genocide, isn't really a rule change. Now if what had been enforced was that it was genocide denial to claim that China did not have extermination camps, and now it's alright to describe it solely as forced assimilation, then it obviously would be a rule change. Instead of just going "Yeah, it's is Calvinball. Deal with it" like the rest of SA does when it comes to rules.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:13
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Yeah but that's not how your mods are enforcing "genocide denial" so is this an official change in policy going forwards? They're not "my mods", I'm not an admin or even boss mod of D&D. We try to review each others' decisions but that doesn't always happen for various reasons. That said if anyone gets punished for not using the term "genocide" while still acknowledging that abuses are happening, then they can PM me or use the discord link in the rules thread to otherwise contact me and I will review it and yell at the mod who did it.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:17
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silicone thrills posted:It's cool. I only get more frustrated and lash out more and more every time someone asks me to educate them on "what's wrong with DnD: re : sexual assault" and I'm sure by the end of the day I'll end up eating a probe because it fucks me up to explain the same poo poo over and over again to an audience that only pretends to care. No, if the mods pretended to care, they'd at least pretend to read the many good posts in this thread, and dish out more than comedy 6ers for rape denialism. But this feedback thread only exists because of a 60-page QCS thread, multiple mods couldn't even stop picking fights even ITT, and now that the problem is clearly 'people pulling up the ladder behind themselves' (???) the problem is resolved. No action needed. The mods don't even pretend to care. But nothing's going to be done, for the exact same reason nothing was done during the months of complaints about PPJ: reading posts about a problem and replacing the mods causing the problem takes work. If the admins refuse to put in an hour or two of work, read some posts they don't enjoy reading, and then fix the problems literally dozens of posters have brought up, we can't force them to. Daikatana Ritsu was right: they'll just keep ignoring the problem indefinitely, no matter how many times the evidence is presented to them. Well, until it explodes again for the same unresolved reasons, a few weeks to a few months from now. Then the admins will kramer in, ban-hammer swinging, and fat-finger a bunch of knee-jerk punishments against the posters for daring to keep bringing up these problems and forcing them to do work. And it's been, what, 2 years since the PPJ saga? Same problem, same forum, same team of D&D mods chosen by other D&D mods chosen by other D&D mods.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:29
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Hey since context is important, want to reveal who you were before you put on the mask?
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Oct 27, 2021 17:31
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fool of sound posted:Hey since context is important, want to reveal who you were before you put on the mask?  Edit: to add content, I think a coherent policy regarding what's happening with the Uighurs is going to need to get hammered out and will require poster input.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:32
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The multiple probes in this thread that are for essentially "stop giving us feedback we don't want to hear" and ignoring most everything else is extremely emblematic of the problem. Yall can't even bother pretending at this point.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:32
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fool of sound posted:Hey since context is important, want to reveal who you were before you put on the mask? no.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:33
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OK, then I think we've heard enough from you in this thread.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:33
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fool of sound posted:OK, then I think we've heard enough from you in this thread. Hey this really sucks, as does every other time you've done this in this thread.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:36
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fool of sound posted:OK, then I think we've heard enough from you in this thread. sorry if this comes off as more glib than I mean it, but technically, can't the mods unmask bane? or is this about an exact a science as thread/forum ban tracking? CommieGIR posted:In fact, your experiment was so successful that we actually assumed you were a re-reg troll from the start. We asked for an alt-check on October the 2nd and while it did align your account with a fairly innocent poster
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Oct 27, 2021 17:36
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fool of sound posted:OK, then I think we've heard enough from you in this thread. To be clear this looks really bad. They made a solid point so you are nitpicking at something other than their points.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:37
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Cow Bell posted:You keep bringing this up like it's the only time you've ever slipped up and there was nothing that could be done about it. But the reality is the blow zone got closed down because someone posted rape apologia (and they're still posting right above you in this thread) and you only acted on it when you were forced to, and did the literal absolutely bare minimum. You are still continuing to defend this decision, from that very moment on, in that thread, in QCS, in this thread. The blow zone fell apart because people watched the disgraceful way D&D posters, and the active moderators in that thread, handled themselves and got angry. It's not because people couldn't be chill, it's because the moderation staff actively encourages the worst people and still refuse to acknowledge it. I'm not defending the decision. I'm saying I'm not going to go back and re-litigate all the bad probes that have likely happened, because if you think that's the only one, we've got a LOT of reviewing to do. Do you think that is realistic at all? Setting the bar higher and determining the level of punishment is going to be an ongoing thing. The fact that you are mad because a new mod didn't put the screws down and therefore is beyond saving is laughable. Also: If you view a sixer as "encouragement", yet you want mods to NOT use punishment as a feedback method, then you guys need to come to an understanding of what level of engagement you really want from the mods.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:39
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Lib and let die posted:sorry if this comes off as more glib than I mean it, but technically, can't the mods unmask bane? or is this about an exact a science as thread/forum ban tracking? I'm not going to unmask them in thread if they want to have an alt, but I also do know who they are and given that don't think that they should be hanging around the feedback thread on that alt.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:39
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Stop probing people for having a position that is left of the US News thread's group think. They're not all automatically trolling you or trying to trick you, they're not all "doomers" and "tankies." Debate them, this is supposed to be the debate forum. If you don't want it to be the debate forum anymore, change the loving name and turn it into the echo chamber that is so clearly desired. Then the D&D regulars will be happy and the report queue will slow down, which is all that matters to the mod team.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:39
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fool of sound posted:Hey since context is important, want to reveal who you were before you put on the mask? I need to know what posting faction you hail from before I know if I can dismiss your opinion or not if we moderate based on your posting faction.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:39
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fool of sound posted:Hey since context is important, want to reveal who you were before you put on the mask? Would you like to answer why you threadbanned someone for providing feedback that contained the mildest of criticisms of you? Or are you once again just going to throw your weight around because you, personally, don't like something despite it having no negative consequences for the thread? Do you not see why this is a bad thing? fool of sound posted:OK, then I think we've heard enough from you in this thread. Lmao what a surprise.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:39
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fool of sound posted:I'm not going to unmask them in thread if they want to have an alt, but I also do know who they are and given that don't think that they should be hanging around the feedback thread on that alt. If I say they're my alt will you engage with the content of their post instead of just "posting about posters"?
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Oct 27, 2021 17:40
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I just want to take a moment to point out that the consensus reached just now by the D&D mods w/r/t the Chinese treatment of the Uighurs was the exact same consensus reached by the now-locked C-SPAM thread of the same topic that caused such a furor in D&D that the usual suspects piled into the "isn't this thread just a honeypot?!?!" QCS thead made about it, and is what's pointed to when every dumbass screams GENOCIDE DENIAL FORUM whenever they can the exact same
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Oct 27, 2021 17:41
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fool of sound posted:Threadbans and forumbans were specifically an admin directive. The idea is that by using them instead of harsh punishments, someone who is a problem in one place but not others isn't denied access to the entire forums because they can't contain themselves in one specific area. I'm... torn of the efficacy really. For some posters it's absolutely worked, for others it's just encouraged a bad poster to be bad elsewhere instead, and for some others they'd probably have been fine to come back after like a week or something via normal probations. I do think that threadbans in particular have been overused lately tbh. fool of sound posted:OK, then I think we've heard enough from you in this thread. lol what on earth does this threadban even achieve,
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Oct 27, 2021 17:41
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WampaLord posted:Stop probing people for having a position that is left of the US News thread's group think. They're not all automatically trolling you or trying to trick you, they're not all "doomers" and "tankies." Debate them, this is supposed to be the debate forum. Could you show some examples of this happening ever?
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Oct 27, 2021 17:42
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Definitely not how you fix honesty and trust problems.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:42
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We're opening the floor up for some honest feedback and we would like opinions from people in D&D. If you can please make sure to follow the rules we retroactively apply you're all welcome to take part. Except for you, and you, and also you.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:45
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Going to break kayfabe for a moment to say that I'm not super interested in the trust or respect or opinions of posters that I think should be banned. If you have a problem with that complain to the admins.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:49
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Even in a feedback thread it's all about "owning" people.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:49
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WampaLord posted:Stop probing people for having a position that is left of the US News thread's group think. They're not all automatically trolling you or trying to trick you, they're not all "doomers" and "tankies." Debate them, this is supposed to be the debate forum. lol never thought I'd hear "stop probing people" from you I guess folks really do change
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Oct 27, 2021 17:49
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fool of sound posted:Going to break kayfabe for a moment to say that I'm not super interested in the trust or respect or opinions of posters that I think should be banned. If you have a problem with that complain to the admins. No one knows who you're talking about. To everyone except you this looks like you're tilting at windmills.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:50
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fool of sound posted:Going to break kayfabe for a moment to say that I'm not super interested in the trust or respect or opinions of posters that I think should be banned. If you have a problem with that complain to the admins. Who do you think should be banned?
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Oct 27, 2021 17:51
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Gumball Gumption posted:No one knows who you're talking about. To everyone except you this looks like you're tilting at windmills. This is largely in regard to the people I've kicked out of this thread.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:52
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fool of sound posted:This is largely in regard to the people I've kicked out of this thread. So you know who the alt is? Or you think all alts should be banned? Sorry, not understanding.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:52
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Main Paineframe posted:lol never thought I'd hear "stop probing people" from you Seriously just imagine how happy you and the various other regulars will be when no one can disagree with you. Anyone who dissents about anything, instant forum ban. Zero reports filed. Imagine the bliss. All it takes is a forum name and rule change.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:53
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Mellow Seas posted:Even in a feedback thread it's all about "owning" people. it's representative of the larger issue itf that you project this motivation onto your "posting enemies", which is literally the definition of bad faith, and which is literally what you're trying to do in this exact post! I'm making this point with a paragraph when a simple, clean, "turn on your monitor" would suffice, heretofore, and thusly, in accordance with meeting your effort with effort.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:53
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500 good dogs posted:So you know who the alt is? fool of sound posted:I'm not going to unmask them in thread if they want to have an alt, but I also do know who they are and given that don't think that they should be hanging around the feedback thread on that alt.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:54
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Sorry, I must've missed that. Still confused why you asked who they were if you already knew or could instantly find out like that, though. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 27, 2021 17:55
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Gumball Gumption posted:The problem isn't even that it's Calvinball it's they if you point out it's Calvinball D&D has to launch into
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Oct 27, 2021 17:57
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WampaLord posted:Stop probing people for having a position that is left of the US News thread's group think. They're not all automatically trolling you or trying to trick you, they're not all "doomers" and "tankies." Debate them, this is supposed to be the debate forum.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:58
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