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500 good dogs posted:Sorry, I must've missed that. Still confused why you asked who they were if you already knew or could instantly find out like that, though. "We're not going to unmask the poster, we'd never umask the poster, it's about the implication, what aren't you getting about this?" Honestly if it's someone from cspam their coward poo poo should absolutely be named and shamed imho
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Oct 27, 2021 17:59
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500 good dogs posted:Sorry, I must've missed that. Still confused why you asked who they were if you already knew or could instantly find out like that, though. Welp, there's your answer folks, nothing wrong here, just accept that D&D is the hugbox forum and post in C-SPAM.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:00
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What? I'm definitely not on the "D&D side" of this, I just think it trivializes the many reasonable complaints about the moderation to try to own fos on that poo poo. I've called for the resignation of every single one of the D&D mods, that doesn't mean I'm gonna back every argument in favor of that end. People badly arguing for your position sucks. Yeah that wasn't meant to be a specific call out of you and that might not of been the best example. I just think a lot of the D&D problem is a lack of honestly, especially when they honestly would go against an idealized version of D&D, and more specifically that it's always around dumb poo poo like the rules. The rules are dumb Calvinball that are arbitrarily made up by the mods. Which is totally fine, that's how well of SA runs, but because this is D&D the mods feel this need to project being neutral and arbitrary. It really would be progress here to at least acknowledge that D&D is Calvinball just like the rest of the website.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:05
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Jimong5 posted:Welp, there's your answer folks, nothing wrong here, just accept that D&D is the hugbox forum and post in C-SPAM. You have 15 posts outside of this thread in D&D over the last 7 years, and none at all in the last year and a half. I'm not going to kick you or others out over this but tbh I'm only really interested in hearing from people who have participated in D&D alongside at least most of the current moderation team.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:07
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fool of sound posted:You have 15 posts outside of this thread in D&D over the last 7 years, and none at all in the last year and a half. I'm not going to kick you or others out over this but tbh I'm really interested in hearing from people who have participated in D&D alongside at least most of the current moderation team. Do you think maybe the culture of D&D being super tedious might have something to do with it? That in those 7 years a combo of LF, GBS, and CSPAM have been must better outlets to read and post in? I generally don't post all that often anyway and mostly lurk but I read these forums pretty often since 2005. The fact that you are so eager to dismiss opinions on the culture of D&D is part of the problem with the D&D mod team.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:10
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Jimong5 posted:Do you think maybe the culture of D&D being super tedious might have something to do with it? That in those 7 years a combo of LF, GBS, and CSPAM have been must better outlets to read and post in? I generally don't post all that often anyway and mostly lurk but I read these forums pretty often since 2005. If you think D&D is super tedious, just don't post there. That's not very complicated. I'm baffled as to why you care so much and are so angry about it.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:11
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Jimong5 posted:Do you think maybe the culture of D&D being super tedious might have something to do with it? That in those 7 years a combo of LF, GBS, and CSPAM have been must better outlets to read and post in? I generally don't post all that often anyway and mostly lurk but I read these forums pretty often since 2005. What I'm hearing is that GBS and CSPAM are environments you like posting in. Sounds like other people like posting in a different environment, one you call "tedious" but others might call "grounded in facts" or "reasoned." Sounds like the system is working, and you and people that don't like posting in or reading D&D should just stop posting in or reading D&D?
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Oct 27, 2021 18:14
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fool of sound posted:Going to break kayfabe for a moment to say that I'm not super interested in the trust or respect or opinions of posters that I think should be banned. If you have a problem with that complain to the admins. And most of us aren't super interested in the trust or respect or opinions of mods that they we think should be demodded, yet here we are forced to entertain your whims if we want this place to be able to have a functional politics discussion forum in the near future. You condescending pricks act like you're better than everyone who disagrees with you and you're the "adults in the room". You aren't, you're just a bunch of internet janitors that have been massively abusing their power for the past couple years. It sucks rear end. Stop letting your pet posters get away with riling people up until they snap, stop forumbanning people for reacting the expected way to the tedious condescending posts you don't punish for months, stop tilting the scales in favor of your preferred ideologies. It's that loving simple and people have been asking for this poo poo to change since PPJ was in charge and you still won't even acknowledge that there's a problem.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:16
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WampaLord posted:Seriously just imagine how happy you and the various other regulars will be when no one can disagree with you. Anyone who dissents about anything, instant forum ban. Zero reports filed. Imagine the bliss. Honestly this. So much of the problems in DnD comes from pretending to be a neutral debate stage instead of a liberal aligned political discussion board. If you want to just have a fun chat about politics and follow all the latest insider Washington gossip with a Democratic bend then just say that.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:22
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The Shortest Path posted:Stop letting your pet posters get away with riling people up until they snap, stop forumbanning people for reacting the expected way to the tedious condescending posts you don't punish for months, stop tilting the scales in favor of your preferred ideologies. It's that loving simple and people have been asking for this poo poo to change since PPJ was in charge and you still won't even acknowledge that there's a problem. Absolutely agreed. I think a mostly ignored post from Lib and Let Die really captured how this tends to play out. Lib and let die posted:Here's a conversation from a recent D&D thread re: whether non-parents reaped any benefit of voting for Joe Biden from the $600 child tax credit would that is absolutely monstrous and doesn't have any punishment attached to the most monstrous, condescending responses.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:26
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You have been probated one time ever in D&D that I can tell, by exmarx, and I just scrolled through your post history here and it's all completely uncontroversial USPol/Trump/Right Wing media white noise and some QUILTBAG posting up until Benghazi 2 got banned, and you haven't participated in D&D basically at all since then.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:27
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To me the most unbelievable claim in the whole thread is that the problems go away if the word "Debate" does.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:28
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fool of sound posted:You have been probated one time ever in D&D that I can tell, by exmarx, and I just scrolled through your post history here and it's all completely uncontroversial USPol/Trump/Right Wing media white noise and some QUILTBAG posting up until Benghazi 2 got banned, and you haven't participated in D&D basically at all since then. Who gives a gently caress?! Just because we can play the game (because hey: my history is mostly the same) and mostly keep our cool against intensely bad poo poo doesn't make it less valid
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Oct 27, 2021 18:29
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I read D&D but do not post much any more because it has been on a years-long downslide that I think the mods are doing nothing to reverse. Does my opinion count, y/n
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Oct 27, 2021 18:30
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fool of sound posted:You have 15 posts outside of this thread in D&D over the last 7 years, and none at all in the last year and a half. I'm not going to kick you or others out over this but tbh I'm only really interested in hearing from people who have participated in D&D alongside at least most of the current moderation team. I don't think "I only care about the opinions of insiders" is an effective moderation stance when the standing criticism for the past few years has been "this community is too insular".
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Oct 27, 2021 18:30
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fool of sound posted:You have been probated one time ever in D&D that I can tell, by exmarx, and I just scrolled through your post history here and it's all completely uncontroversial USPol/Trump/Right Wing media white noise and some QUILTBAG posting up until Benghazi 2 got banned, and you haven't participated in D&D basically at all since then. If you're just going to start running a tribunal on posters with negative feedback just close the thread and move on with your day. I think we can all see at this point that nothing will fundamentally change. It's clear what the regulars want and it's also clear you will take any step to ensure that for them. Which is OK! there are other subs and I will continue to not read this one anymore.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:31
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Anger and sour grapes being aired out are all par for the course in threads like these, but there’s a new undertone of… futility(?) that I want to make sure is recognized. The critiques and ideas brought up here are hardly new, the difference is that people seem like they’ve lost faith that mods and admins are even willing to change. And it’s easy to see why - we’re told that D&D is run by the larger community, then that community gets whittled away and punished for feedback a small group doesn’t like. This thread is literally a microcosm for posting in D&D itself. Posters are held to a higher standard of behavior than people with buttons, and posters who fall outside the popular spectrum are held to an even more strict standard. It’s equal parts obvious and exhausting, and the people responsible are certainly smart enough to recognize it.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:31
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WampaLord posted:Seriously just imagine how happy you and the various other regulars will be when no one can disagree with you. Anyone who dissents about anything, instant forum ban. Zero reports filed. Imagine the bliss. just because that's your personal dream forum doesn't mean everyone else feels that way
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Oct 27, 2021 18:31
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Ruzihm posted:I don't think "I only care about the opinions of insiders" is an effective moderation stance when the standing criticism for the past few years is "this community is too insular". I only care about the opinion of people who have firsthand experience with posting here, not secondhand opinions from some other thread or grudges from before any of the current mod team was around.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:32
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fool of sound posted:You have been probated one time ever in D&D that I can tell, by exmarx, and I just scrolled through your post history here and it's all completely uncontroversial USPol/Trump/Right Wing media white noise and some QUILTBAG posting up until Benghazi 2 got banned, and you haven't participated in D&D basically at all since then. So unproblematic posters have stopped participating in D&D and this is not just an issue with "cspammers" or people who want shitposting.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:32
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Famethrowa posted:Absolutely agreed. I think a mostly ignored post from Lib and Let Die really captured how this tends to play out.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:32
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fool of sound posted:You have been probated one time ever in D&D that I can tell, by exmarx, and I just scrolled through your post history here and it's all completely uncontroversial USPol/Trump/Right Wing media white noise and some QUILTBAG posting up until Benghazi 2 got banned, and you haven't participated in D&D basically at all since then. Yeah, that's exactly right. I lurk a lot more than I post, and when things started getting worse in here I started posting less and then not even lurking much anymore except when someone links to something particularly noteworthy. I am not one of the "problem posters" that you think need to be probed and probed and probed until you can justify kicking them out, but I sure see that happen and I think it sucks. Not everyone posting in here that you guys suck is the same annoying cspam poster or whatever stereotype you have of us, unlike what y'all seem to think judging by Ralph's pms the other day. Loads of inoffensive posters have just stopped posting in or reading D&D because we don't like what you guys have done with the place. Fajita Queen fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Oct 27, 2021 |
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Oct 27, 2021 18:33
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Just a hunch, but I think there are people who stopped posting in D&D for reasons other than, or even opposite of, those that have been presented by "outsiders" in this thread, but they're not posting in here, and certainly not posting over and over and over again to give the illusion of a consensus. I think a lot of them just stopped posting on SA altogether.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:34
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fool of sound posted:I only care about the opinion of people who have firsthand experience with posting here, not secondhand opinions from some other thread or grudges from before any of the current mod team was around. Didn't you ask at the beginning of the thread for input from lurkers as well? Or was that GJB?
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Oct 27, 2021 18:35
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Muscle Tracer posted:What I'm hearing is that GBS and CSPAM are environments you like posting in. Sounds like other people like posting in a different environment, one you call "tedious" but others might call "grounded in facts" or "reasoned." Sounds like the system is working, and you and people that don't like posting in or reading D&D should just stop posting in or reading D&D? I've never read other feedback threads but does like C-SPAM or the Sports forum feedback threads have tons of people who never post there coming in to tell them how things should be and how wrong/dumb they all are?
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Oct 27, 2021 18:35
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Mellow Seas posted:Just a hunch, but I think there are people who stopped posting in D&D for reasons other than, or even opposite of, those that have been presented by "outsiders" in this thread, but they're not posting in here, and certainly not posting over and over and over again to give the illusion of a consensus. I think a lot of them just stopped posting on SA altogether. Ah yes the "silent majority" of people that don't have an SA account, whose opinions should matter over people who are saying they want to post but feel unfairly treated so don't.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:36
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Terrible Opinions posted:Child free people are just awful. This is the perfect example of the kind of post that I'd expect not to be punished by moderators - it's completely tone deaf, and the part about Poster A's 'dysfunctional reproductive organs' is thrown completely to the side to "own" someone because "a hyuk hyuk, /r/childfree, dat some reddit, lmao right?????" - but it's against someone speaking bad against the Democrats, so it's likely to just slide by. eta: fully willing to admit that based on the username, i'm responding to a gimmick. whoops maybe?
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Oct 27, 2021 18:37
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Main Paineframe posted:just because that's your personal dream forum doesn't mean everyone else feels that way You really aren't the ex-mod to try to make this quip. Like, the one person after the guy who had the excessive resignation from CSPAM modding, and it's the guy who had the excessive resignation from D&D modding.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:38
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A big part of the problem seems to be that people just need to get the gently caress over getting probations. So many people who are saying "I stopped posting in D&D because my views weren't tolerated!" and then you look at their rap sheets and they've gotten like two probations in D&D ever. I thought we changed the purple box from "YOU'RE A HORRIBLE MONSTER" to "Take a break" to emphasize that no, a probation doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't mean you lost or got owned, it just means you can't post for a few hours.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:38
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Basically people do not need to still be actively posting in D&D to be able to easily see that the reasons they stopped posting here in the first place are still problems and they've only gotten worse under the past year or so of new mods.Mellow Seas posted:A big part of the problem seems to be that people just need to get the gently caress over getting probations. So many people who are saying "I stopped posting in D&D because my views weren't tolerated!" and then you look at their rap sheets and they've gotten like two probations in D&D ever. I thought we changed the purple box from "YOU'RE A HORRIBLE MONSTER" to "Take a break" to emphasize that no, a probation doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't mean you lost or got owned, it just means you can't post for a few hours. We can see it happen to other people, when we ourselves don't post much. Also, probes being "take a break" but then later on getting used as justification to permanently boot someone from the forum seems contradictory to me.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:38
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The feedback thread is now about who's justified to provide feedback and was lead there entirely by a mod. That is classic stonewalling techniques.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:42
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Mellow Seas posted:A big part of the problem seems to be that people just need to get the gently caress over getting probations. So many people who are saying "I stopped posting in D&D because my views weren't tolerated!" and then you look at their rap sheets and they've gotten like two probations in D&D ever. I thought we changed the purple box from "YOU'RE A HORRIBLE MONSTER" to "Take a break" to emphasize that no, a probation doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't mean you lost or got owned, it just means you can't post for a few hours. I think the probations are truly secondary, a sort of poo poo cherry on top of a really unpleasant culture of condescension and tediousness that is encouraged and reinforced by mods.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:42
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Lib and let die posted:This is the perfect example of the kind of post that I'd expect not to be punished by moderators - it's completely tone deaf, and the part about Poster A's 'dysfunctional reproductive organs' is thrown completely to the side to "own" someone because "a hyuk hyuk, /r/childfree, dat some reddit, lmao right?????" - but it's against someone speaking bad against the Democrats, so it's likely to just slide by.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:42
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It's a nice insight into the mind of the dnd mods when it's revealed that they view and manage the forum as a quasi-caste system. With the most libminded posters ranked above all.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:43
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I wonder if there was some big event a while back that made it apparent to the entire forums that the moderation of D&D was Bad, and maybe that's why a bunch of people just stopped posting in the forum entirely. It'd be interesting if any of the current moderators were then-superstar posters who were promoted during that event.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:44
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fool of sound posted:You have 15 posts outside of this thread in D&D over the last 7 years, and none at all in the last year and a half. I'm not going to kick you or others out over this but tbh I'm only really interested in hearing from people who have participated in D&D alongside at least most of the current moderation team. fool of sound posted:I only care about the opinion of people who have firsthand experience with posting here, not secondhand opinions from some other thread or grudges from before any of the current mod team was around. This is a seriously disappointing response to see from a moderator. The last company I worked for hired a number of business consultants during my last couple years there. Most of the time they were overpaid people wearing expensive suits who told us what we already knew, but sometimes we could glean something useful that we didn't know. One of the consultants designed and performed a survey where we obtained feedback from both current and former customers alongside the Net Promoter Score (you know, the pop-up survey you see on websites or e-mails asking you to rate a company from 1-10). The only enlightening feedback we got from that survey came from former customers who gave middling scores on the NPS; the current customers were too focused on their internal motivations to be helpful to us and those who rated us too low on the NPS had burned bridges and were not interested in providing constructive feedback. If this whole feedback thread is supposed to receive earnest feedback on improving the forum, then you should absolutely be welcoming and understanding former posters on whey they aren't participating. If nothing else, we come to this without the actual grudges against the current moderation team that are making this thread hard to read.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:44
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fool of sound posted:I only care about the opinion of people who have firsthand experience with posting here, not secondhand opinions from some other thread or grudges from before any of the current mod team was around. Ignoring posters who choose not to post at a place when examining why people dislike posting at a place?  "let's ignore where we dont see the bullet holes, clearly irrelevant!" Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Oct 27, 2021 |
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Oct 27, 2021 18:47
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defining a web community as active posters instead of as active posters + lurkers is how you become (or stay as) a circlejerk. Yeah no poo poo the people who actively love this environment don't see any problems with it except that maybe it's too accepting of dissenting views and boy it's a shame a different politics forum is allowed to exist out of the range of our mods' reach.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:48
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Missing Donut posted:those who rated us too low on the NPS had burned bridges and were not interested in providing constructive feedback. hmmm
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Oct 27, 2021 18:49
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Terrible Opinions posted:No I just failed to read more than the first few and had assumed it was all people complaining about their taxes going to local schools or the like. I did not see the terrible poo poo said in response to them until called out. It's still crab buckety to be mad about money going to parents, but holy poo poo Poster C should have been probed or banned. Yeah I just looked and there should have been action taken on those. I can't find the report on it so all I can think is that someone didn't want to hit it because an IK was participating in the discussion or something, sorry.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:49
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