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I dunno how many people will find this sort of thing interesting, but I spent a bit of time building an FX chain in Bitwig to do fakey record scratches for any given audio source. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc2guCaWdeM
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Oct 19, 2021 08:36
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Agreed posted:Man, I just got my feet wet with samplers in the IKMM Group Buy, and you want to talk about sticker shock when I checked out Spitfire prices. $800 for the Hans Zimmer strings, I guess getting his involvement is not cheap of course and then I also see it's like a 250GB library just for that and I compare to my whole current sample folder which is only 228GB and start to understand more. It's all the mic positions, I stripped it down to just Close and Tree and that makes it 31GB. Devs know that poo poo turns heads (why else would they advertise uncompressed size?), but obviously it's not a marker of quality 
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Oct 19, 2021 18:45
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I saw one of their libraries for sale on a 1TB SSD because it takes up 600GB, that's, uh, that's a lot of samples anyway
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Oct 19, 2021 19:41
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Any thoughts on the new spectrasonics release? “Sonic extensions” Trying to see if it’s worth it. Love omnisphere but those expansions are all in nearly as much as the original product
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Oct 20, 2021 06:53
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Black Rooster Audio guy says it's been a rough year personally and for the company, which sucks because they were pretty generous with two different sales both in 2020 and 2021 that cut their "All Bundle" price very deep. I've liked many of their products after getting in that bundle earlier this year, generally very high quality sounds from 'em and good support in my experience. They have put out a Halloween edition of their well-liked VPRE-73 plugin, which is $29 for anyone not just owners of the normal VPRE-73 (and that is typically a sale price for BRA stuff). It's only on sale through November 1, and I already picked it up to take advantage of the two new features & help the company out. Straight up it looks like the art design came out of Path of Exile, ghostly pirate corsair stuff, I'm having fun using it. Here is a quick demo using it with some synth pads. Video gets a bit louder later when I start using all the added gain it has now compared to the original but I try to keep it under control. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDm-zO47LyY Agreed fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Oct 23, 2021 |
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Oct 23, 2021 02:19
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Agreed posted:Man, I just got my feet wet with samplers in the IKMM Group Buy, and you want to talk about sticker shock when I checked out Spitfire prices. $800 for the Hans Zimmer strings, I guess getting his involvement is not cheap of course and then I also see it's like a 250GB library just for that and I compare to my whole current sample folder which is only 228GB and start to understand more. I have Spitfire symphony complete professional that I use basically non-stop and yeah it's uhh, not cheap. But drat does it sound good, and Masse is really good too. IMO their brass are the weakest of them. I don't really like their trumpets. If you think that the storage requirements are steep, wait until you start loading things and see the RAM requirements (if you're going to be loading full symphonies with all mic positions). Once I have time again and have finished my new job search I'm going to build out a 48 core server (2x 24 core CPUs) with half a TB of RAM so I don't have to care about it anymore. If you're just getting your feet wet, you might want to look in to Eastwest's ComposerCloud. You can get a subscription for like $30/mo or $300 for a year. It gives you access to all of their products and they have some really good ones. The Hollywood instruments are great and there's definitely places where I use them over the Spitfire ones. You also get a ton of other stuff that comes with it to make some really cool sounds, as well as tons of non-western instruments. Oh, you'll also need a lot of processing power as you add more instruments. It's not uncommon for Kontakt to have 1200-1500 concurrent voices without every instrument playing. Also I really really like the Cremona Quartet but it's I think $400 alone for 4 instruments soooo edit: this is what my ram usage looks like when I load the instruments I'm typically using 
Woolwich Bagnet fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Oct 23, 2021 |
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Oct 23, 2021 05:16
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What you do with the Cremona Quartet is wait for the NI Summer of Sound and stack half-price upgrades to get the Komplete CE for 800 (note that this also nets you the Symphony Series, which largely sucks rear end)
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Oct 23, 2021 08:28
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Oh I should also note that you don't NEED that much ram, but I run the instruments in power mode, and a lot of articulations for each loaded, though the sizes could be even larger if you don't have all your samples on M.2 drives like I do. In 'normal' mode they use around 25% of the ram, and there's a laptop mode that uses maybe 7%. I just really like to know what the end sound is going to be, instead of setting them to power one by one or whatever and recording each instrument separately. Biggest difference is the number of layers used for the instruments, and single mic vs. multi mic, although you can use premixed stereo samples if that's not as important to you.
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Oct 23, 2021 21:55
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What is a good trumpet VST, anyway? DSK Overture’s trumpets are pretty crap, IMO, and I’ve been looking for a good brass instrument for something I’m working on.
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Oct 24, 2021 21:53
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I'll see if I can get a comparison with a couple together. I think trumpets are difficult because they can just end up sounding like a saw wave, so maybe attacks get a bit exaggerated to try and make them sound real.
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Oct 25, 2021 20:39
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Might just also be that I don’t have a good mental impression of a trumpet’s sound and whether it’s appropriate for what I’m using it in. 
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Oct 25, 2021 20:50
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the only trumpets you need are the soundfonts old touhou games used
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Oct 25, 2021 20:55
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Pollyanna posted:Might just also be that I don’t have a good mental impression of a trumpet’s sound and whether it’s appropriate for what I’m using it in. Is it for quick notes or sustained one?
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Oct 25, 2021 21:15
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There’s quick notes and sustained notes in the track, sustained will prolly be strings and quick will prolly be some sort of brass.
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Oct 25, 2021 21:17
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Does anyone know of an oil can delay vst? I found the Tel-Ray Delay, but that looks like it's aax only.
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Oct 26, 2021 04:22
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OutOfPrint posted:Does anyone know of an oil can delay vst? I found the Tel-Ray Delay, but that looks like it's aax only. Nomad Factory has one that sounds great but it's quite old at this point if that matters. https://go.nomadfactory.com/products/p428-Blue-Tubes-Oilcan-Echo-TLE2S/
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Oct 26, 2021 11:33
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OutOfPrint posted:Does anyone know of an oil can delay vst? I found the Tel-Ray Delay, but that looks like it's aax only. There are convolution reverb impulses of them, I know one is included with Convology, which is free: https://impulserecord.com/project/convology-xt-plugin/
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Oct 26, 2021 13:15
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Pollyanna posted:There’s quick notes and sustained notes in the track, sustained will prolly be strings and quick will prolly be some sort of brass. I put together a few examples for you. There's 4 tracks on the playlist. The first 3 are parts of the Hummel Concerto Mvmt 3. I just grabbed a midi for it and spent a little bit of time cleaning it up but it's nowhere near perfect so keep that in mind. The WIP is part of a longer piece I'm putting together for a D&D campaign some friends and I are doing. https://soundcloud.com/poltzart/sets/trumpet-examples 1. Eastwest's Hollywood brass solo trumpet 2. Spitfire's Studio Brass Professional 3. The two of those combined (this is what I do a lot of the time) 4. A WIP part of a song that has the Hollywood brass trumpet doing long notes. Horn is spitfire, the strings are Cremona quartet except the contra bass, which is Spitfire studio strings. I have some other classical pieces on there (and a single synth thing I started messing with over the weekend) and all of them are some mix of either the Hollywood brass or Spitfire. If you have a specific section you'd like for me to record from a midi PM me and I'll do it.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:44
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Oh wow, thank you! I didn't expect some live examples, that helps a lot! ...and as a result, I'm not sure if brass is the right instrument for this part after all.  At least, trumpets apparently sound totally different in my head. Plus, the composition hasn't ended up so brash and dramatic as to call for trumpets, so far.
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Oct 27, 2021 01:54
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I finally just gave in and bought Valhalla's delay. It's so drat flexible, good lord.
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Oct 27, 2021 03:05
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Actually, I wonder If there’s just different kinds of trumpets. Trumpets in an orchestra sound like different instruments than trumpets in a mariachi band or in this one track. DST’s sound like literal farts in comparison.
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Oct 27, 2021 04:00
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The SWAM stuff is the only thing that sounds good to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5xp2_SPh6Q Need an expression controller though.
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Oct 27, 2021 04:16
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apatheticman posted:The SWAM stuff is the only thing that sounds good to me. Ok that's pretty drat amazing. Going to have to give a listen to some of their other instruments and uhh, I may be $1400 poorer soon.
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Oct 27, 2021 04:45
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apatheticman posted:The SWAM stuff is the only thing that sounds good to me. I have a Seaboard and am extremely horny for the SWAM stuff but it's so drat expensive. Waiting for a project that needs it bad enough to convince me.
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Oct 27, 2021 05:05
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I got into Metaplugin tonight and I think I will be using it a lot. Very useful tool, makes some weird processing very easy.
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Oct 27, 2021 07:46
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So I realized that I never actually hit post on this from last night, but: Yeah I didn't spend a lot of time putting those together or I definitely could have made them sound better. I use expression maps in Dorico, my notation software, to automate a lot of it, but still requires some fine tuning for certain notes. For example, the hollywood brass trumpets have 32 different playing styles/articulations alone. Here's an example of my expression map for spitfire chamber strings violin 1:  It will change the articulation/style based on either written instructions in the piece as well as note length. So if for example I mark a section with Spicc., it will switch to the spiccato samples and use those until I mark natural. If I mark a note as staccato it will switch to the correct articulation for that note and then switch back if the next note is not. Here's what is available for the Guarneri Violin (Cremona Quartet):  Each one of those additionally tends to have at least 1-3 additional options, all can be played con sordino (damped), and you can select if a note is played on a high or low string. And of course for each the attack is shaped by the dynamic selected and for sustains the vibrato can be adjusted. It's pretty nuts and shows why the prices are so high for things like this.
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Oct 27, 2021 12:53
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Edit: ^^^ Yes, case in point There's a shitload of nuance in trumpet playing that isn't reflected in a basic rear end 'map one sample to each key' patch. Higher pitch register might be louder because more air is forced through. You might need to bend upwards into notes and have fade outs at the ends. Carefully judge where it feels natural to apply vibrato. Pitch might not be fixed perfectly in general. Emulate tonguing. Etc etc. It's like making a human voice doo dah patch sound like natural singing, ie lots of work and you'll only get so far. Some modern sample libraries or modeling plugins will (help you) puzzle things together from a heap of articulations through scripting and semi random variation. Realism wrt emulating acoustic instruments is complicated and emulating playing styles particular to the instrument is a big part of it. Flipperwaldt fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Oct 27, 2021 |
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Oct 27, 2021 13:49
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Oh and I'm also in the process of building my own controller so that after I've put the notes down I can go back and record the expression, dynamic, velocity, pan, vibrato etc. 6 encoders + fader per channel. Making it modular so that I can control anywhere from 2 to 12 instruments, and every encoder will be able to be set individually for whatever midi CC I want. Each will also share a small OLED screen between the two to display their current level, control parameter, channel, etc. and have a button to switch between fine/normal response. I'll also be using this for some synth fun in the future. Just playing with screens now. Have the rest of the BOM selected, parts, and the schematic laid out.
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Oct 27, 2021 13:53
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This is why I like synthesizers and FM. 
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Oct 27, 2021 14:46
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Flipperwaldt posted:Edit: ^^^ Yes, case in point Yep. As a former trumpet player I understand it well. And yeah you can get help with modern libraries and expression maps at least help when you're piecing together things. For orchestra type work they do a pretty good job, but creating a realistic sounding instrument designed to do solo work is very very hard. There's a big difference between single or double tonguing, when a person would actually apply vibrato, how they would apply it, is it a transition from the same fingering to another note with the same fingering, are there alternatives, etc. edit: I could have spent weeks working on those trumpet samples if I wanted to. Or I could pay someone to just play it. I'm just a hobbiest though so messing around with things is good enough for me, and it doesn't have to be PERFECT.
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Oct 27, 2021 16:17
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I'm just regurgitating tips from the book the midi files, which I found insightful on the topic, trying to get the general idea across. I didn't notice your post until I had looked it all up. So I'm looking a bit like a twat seemingly trying to explain these things to an actual player, but it's just awkward post timing, I'm sorry.
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Oct 27, 2021 16:54
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Flipperwaldt posted:I'm just regurgitating tips from the book the midi files, which I found insightful on the topic, trying to get the general idea across. I didn't notice your post until I had looked it all up. So I'm looking a bit like a twat seemingly trying to explain these things to an actual player, but it's just awkward post timing, I'm sorry. Oh I wasn't saying that I used to play as a comment to you. You're right on the money that instruments are, even when simple looking, extremely complex and after time you can determine who's playing just from the sound and style. They're analog instruments and from that video posted it shows in the vi the movement of the valves and it's never an on off kind of thing. When you play a single note from a well sampled package you can get 80+ voices playing because of all the layers and crossfading etc that's going on in the background. The good news is that that means unless you're trying to match a specific person there's at least room to play. I think however that trumpets are one of the most difficult to replicate because if they get too buzzy, which they do naturally, it can start to sound like a bad general midi sound despite being realistic.
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Oct 27, 2021 19:10
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It’s not even doing the work that’s the hardest part, it’s identifying that something sounds different in a particular way and understanding why that is the case, and knowing how to replicate it. It involves a lot of domain knowledge and it’s just so much easier to reach for a sawtooth.
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Oct 27, 2021 19:31
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I find, with most instrument libraries, half of the battle is figuring out how they want you to play/trigger them. I've recently fallen in love with 8dio's Intimate Studio Strings, and they give you a really high degree of verisimilitude if you pay attention to expression automation and switch between samples smartly. You gotta be careful though. As with every sample library I've ever used, you gotta find the sweet spot. The legato patches, for instance can be heartachingly pretty with their big damatic portamentos. OTOH, if you're not careful, your soulful cellist can end up sounding like a sloppy drunk.
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Oct 27, 2021 19:45
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Octatonic posted:I find, with most instrument libraries, half of the battle is figuring out how they want you to play/trigger them. I've recently fallen in love with 8dio's Intimate Studio Strings, and they give you a really high degree of verisimilitude if you pay attention to expression automation and switch between samples smartly. You gotta be careful though. As with every sample library I've ever used, you gotta find the sweet spot. The legato patches, for instance can be heartachingly pretty with their big damatic portamentos. OTOH, if you're not careful, your soulful cellist can end up sounding like a sloppy drunk. Yep, and even if something is labeled as say 'long,' it might actually be appropriate for use down to 16th notes up to 120 bpm. When I'm putting stuff together I'll often put a manual flag to change articulation and go through different playing styles to determine what sounds best to me. And to make things even more complicated, sometimes you will have a section of rhythm that are all the same kinds of notes, but you want to switch for certain ones to make it smoother or whatever. Or you need to adjust the dynamic/expression on certain notes to get an even volume.
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Oct 27, 2021 20:46
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Pollyanna posted:it’s just so much easier to reach for a sawtooth. THREAD TITLE
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Oct 28, 2021 00:36
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Achmed Jones posted:THREAD TITLE
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Oct 28, 2021 04:54
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Achmed Jones posted:THREAD TITLE
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Oct 28, 2021 10:23
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Achmed Jones posted:THREAD TITLE
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Oct 28, 2021 10:27
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apatheticman posted:The SWAM stuff is the only thing that sounds good to me. Welp thanks a lot, I purchased it to see how well it works, and drat is it good solo instrument stuff. Even better is that you don't need to spend a ton of time setting up complex expression maps for it. It mostly does what you want with default settings (and passing note velocity/expression as the dynamic value to it). Dorico has the option to have automated dynamics for certain notes built in, so for instance it puts a bit more dynamic in on the first note of a passage and certain others within, and also varies them within a range so it does a pretty decent job. The only thing it's not perfect at without messing around a bit is very fast notes. But I'm talking like 32nd notes at 140 bpm fast. It sometimes tries to use the same 'fingerings' between them, and can sometimes be a bit soft on repetitive notes of the same pitch. The fast note issue is mostly solved by putting in very small rests between them, and messing with the valve playing style. Also note that the valve positions it displays are not the same as they would be on the actual instrument. All in all though it's very solid. Not sure about the violin or french horn yet. Those 2 and trumpet are instruments I tend to have stand out, along with viola/cello, and it's hard to justify spending more when I have the Cremona Quartet instruments that sound amazing already (and are half price atm!)
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Oct 30, 2021 04:07
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