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They should've moved the touch bar into the top right of the screen, and normally it's tucked fully inside the display panel unseen, but if your menu or status bar gets too big it automatically extends out of the right side of the display and draws the missing items. Special logic in the operating system would let you get your mouse in that tiny strip, or you could just touch the panel (softly, because it's obviously delicate when fully telescoped out the side of the display). The menu items would scroll one by one on the touch bar with swipe gestures. Once the extra menu space is no longer needed, the touch bar would retract back behind the display. If your mouse cursor was still in there, it would be lost for good and you would need to power cycle to get it back. I think this solution would make the most people happy, especially those who miss the touch bar.
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Oct 27, 2021 23:41
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Maybe it was left unfixed on purpose. After all it's making people talk about the new laptops past the initial announcement and even past the first deliveries. No one who'd put down $2k+ dollars on release day is going to care and by the time you get to people who do care the 'glitch' will be fixed. It's a fake design problem that no one will remember because all the real design problems from the last gen MBP's are finally fixed.
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Oct 27, 2021 23:44
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Martytoof posted:I will say that it is definitely not a big deal and will be addressed quickly, but it really does feel like one of those things that feel hard to believe they didn’t notice in some kind of internal testing. You’re putting in a thing that you know nerds will be up in arms about, you’ve already had to consider what to do about your menu items, so it’s not a bridge too far to think the problems that the ultranerds are amplifying should have been basic things they’d quality check. You're also referring to the world's pickiest userbase of fanboys of a company that realizes it has jack and poo poo to iterate on with its best selling product (iPhone) so it really really needs to push out new Macs before the end of the year 
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Oct 27, 2021 23:48
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how can I feel "Pro" if it only says MacBook Pro on the bottom?  I would be down for an ultralight 15" Air with mediocre battery life
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Oct 28, 2021 00:05
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BobHoward posted:Do you still have your plain-M1 MBP to test on the same monitor(s)? I've seen reports of progress on that front with Monterey betas, so it may not be the new chips at all, just new drivers. After all, M1 can drive a 6K Pro Display XDR at 60 Hz, which is ~1.22 gigapixels/sec. A 3440x1440x144Hz ultrawide is only ~0.713 GP/sec, so there's no technical limitation in the hardware. I did update my M1 MacBook Pro to Monterey and it still didn't support it when the newer M1 Max does. I don't think it's impossible for it to, it could also be the monitor or something else. Doesn't matter for me now, the new one works just fine 
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Oct 28, 2021 01:02
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My entirely serious but not at all thought out suggestion to relocating the touchbar would be to make the top 1/8th of the actual trackpad an OLED display substrate and have it a toggleable option. You’re already touch that giant hunk of glass on the reg.
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Oct 28, 2021 01:09
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Sphyre posted:so they've known that there was going to be a notch blocking elements on the screen for months or years now, and simply decided to do nothing about it? pretty cool! The team responsible for the menu bar UI might not have known about the new hardware until it was too late. I don’t know about Apple but at other tech hardware companies I’ve worked stuff like that has happened due to the desire to prevent leaks.
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Oct 28, 2021 01:45
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LionArcher posted:I like Quinn partly because he's constantly making GBS threads on Tesla (and owns one, which makes it funnier). He gets a little spergy about poo poo, and he's definitely a mormon, but other than that, he's one of the better ones for sure. Tom Nicholas came out with a video last week about Google/Waymo using science/tech/education YouTube channels to sway public opinion/spread a little misinformation about self-driving cars, mainly focusing on Veritasium but also addressing other big channels like Snazzy that were involved in the same program. I give Quinn credit for writing out a long response (admittedly covering his own rear end) that basically copped to “yeah in hindsight I’m not happy with the way that video came out and if I’d been older/better established/savvier I probably wouldn’t have even done it. But at the time my channel was literally just me plus one other person/editor and Google more-or-less bullied us into releasing the video that they wanted” instead of doing what Veritasium did, which was accuse Tom of clout-chasing and handwave away all the criticism.
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Oct 28, 2021 01:53
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My milkshake duck comment wasn't even so much about the notch, as it was about all the hands-on reviews saying things like - bad display with ghosting - "ok" keyboard - not actually that great at compressing video - performance in general only being "on par" with comparable Wintel hardware, like after being told for a year that M1 was a quantum leap over Intel now even this one is more like "really impressive ... for a laptop" I don't know if I'm drastically misinterpreting the tenor of the last few pages' worth of reviews and videos and such but that's what it feels like. Still gonna buy one even if it's no faster than this 2012 because what can I do
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Oct 28, 2021 03:32
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Data Graham posted:- performance in general only being "on par" with comparable Wintel hardware, … "really impressive ... for a laptop" For me if you start there and take into account the lower power consumption and heat generation, then I’m dancing in the street. My 2018 intel MacBook Pro is a joke.
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Oct 28, 2021 03:42
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Things can be largely unimportant and still absolutely inexcusable.
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Oct 28, 2021 03:46
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https://twitter.com/jsngr/status/1453341112635166720
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Oct 28, 2021 03:52
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Data Graham posted:My milkshake duck comment wasn't even so much about the notch, as it was about all the hands-on reviews saying things like All those were a single persons post in this thread though?
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Oct 28, 2021 03:56
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we’re officially reaching the point in the Apple Silicon hype cycle where all of the people who were expecting the new MacBook Pros to perform fellatio are having to grapple with the realization that they’re still just computers
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Oct 28, 2021 04:02
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Yeah the consensus from all the reviews I’ve seen is it’s essentially a Mac Pro with a Pro Display XDR, but better and that’s totally portable and a fifth of the price. It’s genuinely massive, provided that a Mac Pro with a Pro Display XDR is something that could benefit your workload. There are dozens of important stats and real world benchmarks that are unmatched on any computer so far.
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Oct 28, 2021 04:05
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OK. I mean, like ... I guess I don't know how to read stats like thisDoomTrainPhD posted:
Single-core performance is 150% that of an Intel from last year and no better than a vanilla M1 and that's a quantum leap? Tomb Raider is half the speed of a 3060/3080 laptop? GeekBench is half as well? this is a "monster"? I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely confused.
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Oct 28, 2021 04:12
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The Max is an absolute monster.
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Yeah I dunno about those benchmarks. I saw them and they don’t seem right to be tbh.
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Oct 28, 2021 04:14
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I posted a minor complaint about the display ghosting and lack of 120Hz in Safari, but I still think the display looks incredible and the computer is really really good.
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Oct 28, 2021 04:23
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Data Graham posted:OK. I mean, like ... I guess I don't know how to read stats like this Single core is the same as the M1 because it’s an M1. It’s right in the name. It is a monster when it comes to parallel stuff because it has more cores, better RAM, and more GPU. It is not a monster when it comes to games because contrary to the earlier discussion in the thread, the thing preventing Apple from becoming a AAA gaming platform is not hardware power but business relationships and developers bothering to optimize for the platform. E: I mean, game devs optimize for hardware and hardware makers regularly update drivers to specifically optimize for key games. It’s a virtuous cycle that Apple has shown zero interest in being part of. doingitwrong fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Oct 28, 2021 |
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Oct 28, 2021 04:37
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I need to see benchmarks for my use case which is a million loving tabs of google docs open in multiple browsers because of all the collaboration I have to deal with.
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Oct 28, 2021 04:39
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It's not Google docs but when I open 20+ tabs and get the "opening up that many tabs will slow down the computer" warning from Firefox I chuckle.
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Oct 28, 2021 05:12
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Yeah the fact that it does so well in games despite the fact that they’re all totally unoptimised is actually a testament. Where it’s truly unprecedented is in memory bandwidth, graphics memory, storage speed. The rest of the stats are insane once you consider that that’s also what you get when you unplug it - there is no windows laptop that benches anything beyond a joke on battery, and it’s, tiny, quiet, and cool, with the screen it has. It is a terrible gaming laptop - even if the games were optimised for it, it’s superpowers just aren’t focused in that direction, but it is an unreal creative instrument.
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Oct 28, 2021 05:22
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Data Graham posted:OK. I mean, like ... I guess I don't know how to read stats like this M1 Pro and M1 Max have the same CPU and GPU cores as plain M1, just lots more of them and lots more memory bandwidth to feed them. Multi core is the big gain on the CPU side . I won't say "quantum" because who knows what that means. Tomb Raider is an Intel binary, so it's running through Rosetta 2, and is not optimized for Apple GPUs. The latter is probably more important than the former. Apple used it (and reviewers are using it) as an example of how well Apple Silicon handles legacy software. GeekBench Compute is a fairly simplistic GPU compute test which roughly tracks the raw compute throughput of each GPU. And yes, by the datasheet and by test, Nvidia's 3080 has more teraflops. Counterbalancing that, the medium to fastest versions of the 3080 use more power all by themselves than the entire Apple laptop. And it's likely that "pro" content creation apps which use GPU compute will get more out of Apple's GPU, due to Apple's unified memory architecture, which eliminates copying to and from GPU memory. Host<>GPU copies can be a real bottleneck in real-world GPU compute apps. Raw FLOPs don't mean as much when the GPU's frequently waiting on memory copies. Out of the benchmarks in that screenshot, GFXBench Aztec Ruins is the one which best demonstrates the potential of Apple's GPU for graphics, because the Mac version of this benchmark app is Universal, uses Metal, and has been optimized reasonably well for Apple's TBDR GPU architecture. TBDR is much more efficient than the immediate mode rendering done by Nvidia GPUs, and you can see that in the results. But if you don't put in the work to make some relatively minor changes to how your program draws a scene, it's easy to go much slower, which is part of what you're seeing in the Tomb Raider result. doingitwrong posted:the thing preventing Apple from becoming a AAA gaming platform is not hardware power but business relationships and developers bothering to optimize for the platform. This, although I don't think you should ignore the hardware power angle since the fact that 90% (or whatever the actual figure was) of Intel Macs had nothing but Intel integrated video was important. It's hard to project good sales figures for a game you know you're going to have to tell most Mac users they can't run because it needs way more GPU than they have.
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Oct 28, 2021 05:25
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Dont explicitly need it, but got a base 16"; delivery for tomorrow (too tied up today to grab it). Super pumped; will see good use even if not strictly "necessary"
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Oct 28, 2021 13:26
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Here’s my success criteria over my Intel i7 MBP: - Can I launch the slicer app for my 3D printer and export a quick file without the fan spinning up to airline takeoff speeds. That would be great.
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Oct 28, 2021 13:38
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I just want to use Google Earth with a smooth frame rate The 2018 pans around the landscapes fast as hell but opening up placemark photos makes the fans start to scream for some god drat reason The 2012 is choppy and fan-spinny just panning around but it handles photos just fine
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Oct 28, 2021 13:46
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Got my shipping notification and it’s at the end of the original window, 11/9. Sad it’s that long but happy it’s shipping!
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Oct 28, 2021 13:48
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Curious if anyone else has a delivery estimate of 11/1 but their package has been "In transit" in Shanghai for like three days now. Different timestamps but all say the same, in the same location. Just guesstimating that my 11/1 will slip back to original 11/5 window which is fine but it gives Apple time to push a bugfix for the greatest injustice of our generation, the menubar notch day one bug!
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Oct 28, 2021 14:14
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Fleedar posted:I posted a minor complaint about the display ghosting and lack of 120Hz in Safari, but I still think the display looks incredible and the computer is really really good. fwiw i just used one at the apple store and safari definitely runs at 120hz — at least on the apple website. i’ve seen some particularly dog-slow sites make safari drop frames on my M1 mba so presumably this is what’s happening here Data Graham posted:OK. I mean, like ... I guess I don't know how to read stats like this intel single core performance has been improving by single digits these last few years so 50% uplift is genuinely impressive. the tomb raider benchmark is probably a fair assessment of what you should expect playing games on a mac (god help you) but i’m skeptical of the value as an apples to apples comparison — the mac is running under emulation! that being said macs typically perform pound for pound worse than the equivalent pc even natively, i chalk it up to outdated opengl and no incentive to optimise on the game dev/driver side Generic Monk fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Oct 28, 2021 |
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Oct 28, 2021 14:15
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That's one of my questions — what is this 120Hz Safari stuttering business about? My 2012 obviously doesn't have that kind of refresh rate but scrolling is always buttery smooth and I can't even begin to detect any choppiness. Now that 120Hz is a thing it's detectably worse than 10 years ago? What.
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Oct 28, 2021 14:18
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Martytoof posted:Curious if anyone else has a delivery estimate of 11/1 but their package has been "In transit" in Shanghai for like three days now. Different timestamps but all say the same, in the same location. Just guesstimating that my 11/1 will slip back to original 11/5 window which is fine but it gives Apple time to push a bugfix for the greatest injustice of our generation, the menubar notch day one bug! My iPhone shipped via UPS arrived a week late but my wife’s iPhone shipped via FedEx arrived a week early. Shipping times are hosed so who knows!
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Oct 28, 2021 14:53
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Data Graham posted:That's one of my questions — what is this 120Hz Safari stuttering business about? My 2012 obviously doesn't have that kind of refresh rate but scrolling is always buttery smooth and I can't even begin to detect any choppiness. Now that 120Hz is a thing it's detectably worse than 10 years ago? What. Safari scrolls just fine on mine. I guess I’d have to see a video or something of it. Safari still renders pages at 60hz, but I presume it’ll get 120fps soon enough.
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Oct 28, 2021 15:09
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i got my pro max earlier then expected - the window was nov 3rd to nov 5th but it arrived yesterday this laptop is fantastic we lost power in the nor'easter so i have been setting it up tethered to my cellphone with no power and it still has 37% battery life left also the speakers in it are great
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Oct 28, 2021 15:17
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It figures that the official poo poo-getting-buried-under-the-notch "solution" handles it in the weirdest way possible. Why not just slide the menu bar down instead of losing integer scaling for the whole screen? And why a per-app setting, buried in the Get Info menu?
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Oct 28, 2021 15:20
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Kreeblah posted:It figures that the official poo poo-getting-buried-under-the-notch "solution" handles it in the weirdest way possible. Why not just slide the menu bar down instead of losing integer scaling for the whole screen? And why a per-app setting, buried in the Get Info menu? wait, you’re advocating for a double-thicc menu bar now?
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Oct 28, 2021 15:36
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Generic Monk posted:fwiw i just used one at the apple store and safari definitely runs at 120hz — at least on the apple website. i’ve seen some particularly dog-slow sites make safari drop frames on my M1 mba so presumably this is what’s happening here Mine is definitely scrolling pages at a locked 60Hz, even on Apple’s sites. I took a 120fps video to confirm this. Even other apps that use webviews scroll them at 60Hz. The Reeder UI scrolls at 120, but an article opened in the in-app browser scrolls at 60. Same for Airmail when opening emails vs scrolling the UI around them. I wish I had another machine to compare against. Could be a bug! Edit: downloaded the latest Safari technology preview released yesterday. Same deal. Fleedar fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Oct 28, 2021 |
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Oct 28, 2021 15:44
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Ok Comboomer posted:wait, you’re advocating for a double-thicc menu bar now? No, add an option to just turn off the pixels to the side of the notch, and move the menu bar underneath. And make it a system-wide setting. It'd leave things at the same aspect ratio as MBPs have been for years, without doing . . . this: https://twitter.com/Jatodaro/status/1453382287328874497
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Oct 28, 2021 16:11
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I never cared about this notch “controversy” but now it seems like even less of a problem with how easy of a fix that is
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Oct 28, 2021 16:14
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FCKGW posted:All those were a single persons post in this thread though? Screen is bad thread on MacRumors https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/blooming-elevated-black-levels-on-new-16-macbook-pro.2319710/
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Oct 28, 2021 16:14
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https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212856 Info on the new headphone jack quote:
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Oct 28, 2021 16:51
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