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dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012

i just use the logout trick on everything, yeah. they really need to just add pedestals to arenas like Oceanid event so you can resummon bosses more easily

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Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



every boss that isn't in a domain should have a teleporter like 10 feet from their arena and it's so strange that mihoyo didn't think of that before launch. they're a lot better about it now at least

also idg why domains spawn you so far from the actual arena that you'll run out of stamina trying to run to the start point. why do it like that?

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


Acerbatus posted:

Is that from the monthly passes or have you bought primo packs?

Just wondering what kind of total I should expect when I clear everything out since if Ayaka's brother exists and is a Dante homage I will lose my poo poo.

Saving + the occasional Welkin

Cant Ride A Bus
Apr 9, 2012

"Batman, Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne, Batman. Or have you met?"

Nyoro posted:

God think of all the times you'd have to fight that loving earth cube to level several geodudes at once

The thought alone scares me

It’s a special hell, and the one I’ve put myself in for some reason. It’s not the fragments that slow me down, it’s the Basalt Pillars. Only drops 2-3 at a time and isn’t craftable. It’s the worst.

I don’t even have Noelle at C6 yet, I’m just preparing for when I do. Ningguang is rad tho.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

I have Ningguang at C4, and she seems very weak. Is she really a strong carry?

Frankly I just don’t understand what makes characters really good or not— is it their burst/skill synergizing with others? Do some have really good base stats or something?

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.
I guess teapotting and back also works for boss respawns but it's still daft

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

jokes posted:

I have Ningguang at C4, and she seems very weak. Is she really a strong carry?

Frankly I just don’t understand what makes characters really good or not— is it their burst/skill synergizing with others? Do some have really good base stats or something?

You're already playing Ning at literally half speed if you don't walk-cancel her normals.

At c2 which is the minimum you need for her to be a true carry, she's a self sufficient ult spammer with a second geo on the team. Geo resonance gives super strong damage boost, and her usual game plan is Skill hitting someone-->walk through for damage boost->attack rotation with walk cancel->charge attack->Ult->skill again due to C2.

AshtonDragon
Sep 5, 2011

I'm kinda hoping at some point they'll add some kind of hub that lets you directly teleport to the bosses. That would also double as a way for new players to actually ascend newer characters who require drops from later locations. Just put some kind of barrier around the arena for them so they can't go exploring.

Mix.
Jan 24, 2021

Huh? What?


AshtonDragon posted:

Just put some kind of barrier around the arena for them so they can't go exploring.

They literally did this for the relay boss when you first get to Inazuma so you can't get into the caverns surrounding it until you do it the right way, so they've even set precedent for this :v:

padijun
Feb 5, 2004

murderbears forever

jokes posted:

I have Ningguang at C4, and she seems very weak. Is she really a strong carry?

Frankly I just don’t understand what makes characters really good or not— is it their burst/skill synergizing with others? Do some have really good base stats or something?

upsides: she does aoe damage at c2, she can spam her ult with the right setup, her gates hit for ~25k aoe damage and can occasionally be spammed again

downsides: her crystals from her ult and c6 tend to fly off or run into architecture, considering they're the bulk of her damage it feels like poo poo when half of them hit zhongli's pillar or her own gate. I guess where it really matters (domains and the abyss) it's not as bad since they're all flat planes without a ceiling. she also needs a shielder and second geo to be effective.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




kirbysuperstar posted:

It's because there's no loving teleporter near him, mostly. You have to either swim out to his his island each time or run from the dungeon nearby and it's just loving annoying.

Oh people are also including the walk to them as part of the reasons why they hate geo cube? Okay I can understand that, yeah this is absolutely understandable and it changes my tierlist. Fighting ice and wind ones suck and wind is way too far away from all of the teleporters too.

super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009

AshtonDragon posted:

I'm kinda hoping at some point they'll add some kind of hub that lets you directly teleport to the bosses. That would also double as a way for new players to actually ascend newer characters who require drops from later locations. Just put some kind of barrier around the arena for them so they can't go exploring.

Portals to walled off boss arenas wouldn't solve the need for regional items from monsters and exploration.

Cattail Prophet
Apr 12, 2014

jokes posted:

I have Ningguang at C4, and she seems very weak. Is she really a strong carry?

Frankly I just don’t understand what makes characters really good or not— is it their burst/skill synergizing with others? Do some have really good base stats or something?

Ning just takes a lot of investment to get running in general, so trying her out without putting in the work first is gonna feel bad, yeah. She doesn't have any good f2p weapon options if you missed Dodoco Tales, so you either need to get lucky with 4*s or spring for a Solar Pearl, and more than even most other carries she really really wants all three of her talents leveled. Not to mention needing to build up a second geo to support her.

Garrand
Dec 28, 2012

Rhino, you did this to me!

RareAcumen posted:

Oh people are also including the walk to them as part of the reasons why they hate geo cube? Okay I can understand that, yeah this is absolutely understandable and it changes my tierlist. Fighting ice and wind ones suck and wind is way too far away from all of the teleporters too.

Noelle was one of my first fully ascended characters and if I didn't have mona to sprint from the island with the waypoint I probably would hate the geo cube way more. It was still annoying to do though

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆

padijun posted:

upsides: she does aoe damage at c2, she can spam her ult with the right setup, her gates hit for ~25k aoe damage and can occasionally be spammed again

downsides: her crystals from her ult and c6 tend to fly off or run into architecture, considering they're the bulk of her damage it feels like poo poo when half of them hit zhongli's pillar or her own gate. I guess where it really matters (domains and the abyss) it's not as bad since they're all flat planes without a ceiling. she also needs a shielder and second geo to be effective.

Why do you say she needs a shielder? Yeah Crystallize is pretty useless for actual defensive shields but it works just fine for the "have literally any shield no matter how lovely" requirement of geo resonance, and Ning makes way more crystallize shards than she can use if you have any elemental sub-dps hitting stuff.

It just happens that one of the most busted units in the game is a geo shielder so everyone who has him runs them together. But she'll also work fine with Albedo and later Gorou, or even as a sub-dps for main-dps Itto.

RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Oct 29, 2021

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012

given the assumption Itto will have energy issues it seems likely that he might prefer to run Ning or GMC instead of Albedo

Mix.
Jan 24, 2021

Huh? What?


It's confirmed his bull summon does generate energy particles like other ones, I think I saw it was confirmed to be 4 particles? Obviously subject to change, lmao

x1o
Aug 5, 2005

My focus is UNPARALLELED!
Turns out when I suck at combat, all I need to do is slap some 4* artifacts on Noelle, give her my best claymore, stick her in my party and SPIN TO WIN

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

x1o posted:

Turns out when I suck at combat, all I need to do is slap some 4* artifacts on Noelle, give her my best claymore, stick her in my party and SPIN TO WIN

As a dutiful maid should.

Kale
May 14, 2010

AshtonDragon posted:

I'm kinda hoping at some point they'll add some kind of hub that lets you directly teleport to the bosses. That would also double as a way for new players to actually ascend newer characters who require drops from later locations. Just put some kind of barrier around the arena for them so they can't go exploring.

I regularly put a temporary teleport point on the island with the Geo Hypostasis when I've needed to grind it for this reason since it's so far removed from the closest teleport point and across a body of water.

kirbysuperstar posted:

As a dutiful maid should.

Speaking of whom, I've never quite understood why one of the popular reads of Noelle is as a yandere character. As far as I've been able to tell she's pretty much played straight personality wise and the whole "gap moe" thing they're going for is just this dimwitted easily taken advantage of meek girly girl with contrasting monstrous strength that she is of course largely oblivious to how abnormal it is. The only thing I can think of is her one hangout ending where she's oblivious to the foreigner guy that's up to no good and trying to offer him the best hospitality while you are going around sabotaging it and trying to drive him away so he get's the wrong idea about her and runs away at the end.

Kale fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Oct 29, 2021

AshtonDragon
Sep 5, 2011

super sweet best pal posted:

Portals to walled off boss arenas wouldn't solve the need for regional items from monsters and exploration.

This is a good point, and not to mention the necessity of talent books. There are solutions to this problem too, but it would definitely take more than no effort for them to implement. Since you'd still want to give people who aren't new reasons to gather stuff from the new areas.

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


Cattail Prophet posted:

Ning just takes a lot of investment to get running in general, so trying her out without putting in the work first is gonna feel bad, yeah. She doesn't have any good f2p weapon options if you missed Dodoco Tales, so you either need to get lucky with 4*s or spring for a Solar Pearl, and more than even most other carries she really really wants all three of her talents leveled. Not to mention needing to build up a second geo to support her.

The Widsith is solid on her just on the basis of being a catalyst with a Crit DMG% substat (even if she can't benefit from one third of its special effects)

Andrast fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Oct 29, 2021

Kale
May 14, 2010

Wait Qiqi's voice actress in Japanese has been Yukari Tamura this whole time? How am I just finding this out now? That's so loving random feeling. :confused:

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

jokes posted:

I have Ningguang at C4, and she seems very weak. Is she really a strong carry?

Frankly I just don’t understand what makes characters really good or not— is it their burst/skill synergizing with others? Do some have really good base stats or something?
Characters are good for different reasons. Anemo characters are good because they group and can use the viridescent venerer set. Beidou and Ayaka are good because their bursts just do high damage. Childe's not really good, but he fits one specific very strong comp. Xinyan isnt good because her kit was designed in a way that makes her fit badly in every comp. Bennett is famously good because he boosts other characters' damage more and with higher uptime than anyone else while also being a healer and having highest energy generation in the game. Xingqiu has a 4500% damage burst as well as applying hydro >5x as much as brbara from off field (and hydro applicaton is very valuable in this game). Yoimiya is considered better than Aloy because her normal attack multiiers are better and she also multiplies them again by a flat 1.7x.

As.a side note, I personally cant find a reason to say ningguang is especially good. The only time i've seen her excel was during vagabond sword when there was a flying boss she could freely target.

AshtonDragon
Sep 5, 2011

No Wave posted:

As.a side note, I personally cant find a reason to say ningguang is especially good. The only time i've seen her excel was during vagabond sword when there was a flying boss she could freely target.

She's a good secondary geo character for resonance/energy generation with her C2. The only cheap options in that role right now are Noelle, who doesn't really do the job at all, and geo traveller, who... is theoretically really good in the role but kind of a pain in the rear end.

She also works as a main dps pretty well if you get used to how her attacks work, but she's not incredible in that role. I've done abyss floor 12 9-star clears with parties around her before, but she's not gonna just crush stuff the same way Xiangling does with Childe or Xingqiu. I wouldn't recommend using her like that unless you have another good geo character to support her with, like Albedo or (obviously) Zhongli.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Geo traveler is the worst character in the game. I really like the burst, but the skill is so loving dumb and unwieldy.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

jokes posted:

Geo traveler is the worst character in the game. I really like the burst, but the skill is so loving dumb and unwieldy.
geo traveler is the best traveler honestly

x1o
Aug 5, 2005

My focus is UNPARALLELED!

x1o posted:

Turns out when I suck at combat, all I need to do is slap some 4* artifacts on Noelle, give her my best claymore, stick her in my party and SPIN TO WIN

never mind, the final boss on the second floor of the vengeful wood dungeon tore me a new rear end in a top hat so the game sucks once again.

Cant Ride A Bus
Apr 9, 2012

"Batman, Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne, Batman. Or have you met?"
I just want to be able to detonate the rocks on demand so when I gently caress up and put it where i don’t want it I can get rid of it.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Is Geo traveler the only source of a placable thing you can climb on (or act as a weight)?I generally keep Traveler as Geo in the Geo area because of that, but actually using it in combat is extremely frustrating (outside of the burst which rules).

I wish I could just easily detonate the Geo globes somehow for aoe damage, then it’d be a lot better

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

jokes posted:

Is Geo traveler the only source of a placable thing you can climb on (or act as a weight)?I generally keep Traveler as Geo in the Geo area because of that, but actually using it in combat is extremely frustrating (outside of the burst which rules).

I wish I could just easily detonate the Geo globes somehow for aoe damage, then it’d be a lot better
You can climb Zhongli's pillar, too. Generally most of the Traveler forms are jankier versions of the Archon. Venti and Traveler both have tornados and press/hold skills, Zhongli and Traveler both make terrain and have big AOE bursts, Raiden and Traveler are both energy recharge bots.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012

Zhongli's pillar isn't really a thing you aim/control but has the same issues as GMC rocks, only saved by being a smaller thing so you/enemies are less likely to get stuck to it

x1o
Aug 5, 2005

My focus is UNPARALLELED!

x1o posted:

never mind, the final boss on the second floor of the vengeful wood dungeon tore me a new rear end in a top hat so the game sucks once again.

never mind, went back and tore a new rear end in a top hat in that boss thanks to RNG giving me a massive buff to the Cryo shikifuda which shredded everything. In summary, the game is a land of contrasts.

gandlethorpe
Aug 16, 2008

:gowron::m10:

No Wave posted:

Yoimiya is considered better than Aloy because her normal attack multiiers are better and she also multiplies them again by a flat 1.7x.

This is like comparing apples to orange. Aside from being bow users who infuse their attacks, they play nothing alike and require completely different support. It'd be like comparing Noelle and Diluc.

Sanya Juutilainen
Jun 19, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

gandlethorpe posted:

This is like comparing apples to orange. Aside from being bow users who infuse their attacks, they play nothing alike and require completely different support. It'd be like comparing Noelle and Diluc.

Point in case, Noelle is better than Diluc, because Diluc's advantages are:

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012

1) they don't ship him with your player character
2) he is fully self sufficient
3) he can break more shields and do more puzzles

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

diluc does way more damage and doesnt need c6? he can vape?

x1o
Aug 5, 2005

My focus is UNPARALLELED!
diluc won't nap under trees with you so he sucks.

Chernobyl Peace Prize
May 7, 2007

Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Diluc's a fun character to use early because his skill-aa-weaving is the only way to hit stuff with a claymore without wanting to die.

And then I see videos of what Itto's attack string looks like (even the burst's atk-spd-locked version) and I'm like, ok, bye wine Batman.

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No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!
Noelle and Diluc fill the same role with different supports, I don't think it's crazy to compare them. Diluc can do more damage but hogs the two best supports to do so, Noelle has huge energy requirements but a few big advantages (aoe, healing, and geo resonance).

I think they're two of the better designed characters in the game so I have both pretty built, but both are fairly weak compared to the heavy hitters.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Oct 29, 2021

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