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https://twitter.com/9550pro/status/1454086320301568005
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Oct 29, 2021 16:54
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the last Cinebench R20 result I have recorded here for my i5-10400 is ... 3,026 uhhhhhhh holy poo poo?
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Oct 29, 2021 17:10
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R23 has been out for like a year, but then you could directly compare it to an m1
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Oct 29, 2021 22:18
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I checked for reference: Anandtech has the 5900X at 8400 and the 5950X at 10100. On a core-count basis those look respectable, given some of the load is being carried by efficiency cores. But in those tests, Anandtech had the Ryzens peaking at 142W. Outside of 'space heater' jabs, they'll probably do ok on the desktop, but those efficiency cores are going to have to work magic in laptops. The low end looks a lot more competitive relative to AMD so I expect more price pressure on the 5600X and 5800X. Pablo Bluth fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Oct 29, 2021 |
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Oct 29, 2021 23:09
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Perplx posted:R23 has been out for like a year, but then you could directly compare it to an m1 Where it would look...fine? There are already R23 benchmarks out there: https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu_benchmark-cinebench_r23_multi_core-16 For multi-core: Apple M1 Pro 10c / M1 Max: 12,400 10700K: 12,650 11700K: 15,000 12700K: 23,600 5950X: 28,600 12900K: 29,800 Admittedly unsure if that's with keeping the TDP to 125W or letting it run to 241W.
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Oct 29, 2021 23:58
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Perplx posted:R23 has been out for like a year, but then you could directly compare it to an m1 Most people still use R20 because R23s default behavior is the 10min loop and nobody likes that or cares enough to figure out how to turn it off.
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Oct 30, 2021 01:11
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Pablo Bluth posted:The low end looks a lot more competitive relative to AMD so I expect more price pressure on the 5600X and 5800X. Not until we get cheaper H boards and regular CPUs with sane power consumption limits. This launch make no sense on desktop, insane wattages coupled with questionable 'efficiency' cores that may or may not even be detrimental to gaming loads.
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Oct 30, 2021 12:50
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On top of a new memory platform, no less!
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Oct 30, 2021 19:43
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I can't help but be reminded of the clusterfuck that was Skylake on DDR3L and how Dell bet long on those and ended up with a whole orchard of buggy, error-prone, and under-performing lemon boxes.
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Oct 30, 2021 19:55
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sauer kraut posted:Not until we get cheaper H boards and regular CPUs with sane power consumption limits. The DDR4 board prices are extremely similar to the x570 boards they are competing against, and nobody really cares about power draw anymore. Wait for reviews, but from the leaks you can easily see just by going to most benchmark results indexs now, at the volume parts (8 and 6 P cores), intel is likely going to give you better gaming performance, plus 4 extra coffee lake equivalent cores bolted on as a bonus for less money than the AMD equivalents (until they inevitably slash prices). Also PCIe 5, integrated 2.5g LAN, and optional DDR5 support. “More performance for less price on more feature rich platform” doesn’t sound that confusing to me.
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Oct 30, 2021 20:17
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As assinine as the default power settings are, if you care about power consumption it should take 30 seconds in the UEFI settings to fix (long duration power limit to 125w, tau to 58s or less). At those settings, between the IPC improvements and the process shrink, I'd bet they can probably beat zen3 in efficiency. I'm just hoping someone bothers to test it. Edit: wait I did my math wrong - if those leaked numbers are accurate it's not enough to match AMD efficiency wise, at least multicore. They'd be stuck competing on value and 1c perf which means the k parts really do feel pretty DOA. VorpalFish fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Oct 30, 2021 |
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Oct 30, 2021 20:34
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I have no doubt alder lake will be an excellent and fast CPU especially for gaming, but Intel really needs to get a grip on its power draw We can only imagine if AMD decided to also juice the gently caress out of their CPUS, Intel may as well leave the game. At this rate, even just the 3d vcache Zen 3s will catch up to alder lake in performance, while consuming far less power and not needing new motherboards. When the 12900 is barely faster than a 5950, you know Intel is having problems.
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Oct 30, 2021 20:44
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AMD already has juiced the gently caress out of their CPUs, 7nm just doesn’t scale that well on clocks. They could pour on the power and it would still only be 1-5% faster plus they’d also have a bunch of warranty failures in a couple years.
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Oct 30, 2021 21:42
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:I have no doubt alder lake will be an excellent and fast CPU especially for gaming, but Intel really needs to get a grip on its power draw And if you think Alder Lake or a 5950X is power hungry, baby, you aint seen nothin yet from AMD or Intel... the future for performance compute, including the stand alone gaming segment that they have carved out the last few years, is hot hot HOT. Like, we are talking 600w CPUs in the performance compute datacenter market, lol. The market wants new products once a year and with process improvement dying, they are going to throw power and silicon at the problem to make it happen, as Gelsinger tried to gloss over in his talk about Moores Law. Both AMD and Intel are going to heterogenous stacking, and both are turning up the power dial. For gaming, since they havent had much luck getting devs to use more compute, that silicon ends up being cache instead. It has been under reported but Intel has CRANKED the caches in Alder Lake. Coffee Lake/9900k - 18mb combined L2+L3 Rocket Lake/11900k - 20mb Alder Lake/12900k - 44mb And we don't know really anything about the V-cache parts, so probably too early to make any projections there. Stacking more silicon on top is not going to be free, from a cost or power standpoint. And AMD might also respond to Alder Lake with big price cuts that make Zen3 more competitive too. The whole market swallowed the insane pricing lurches that AMD and Intel pulled the last few years. An 8700k was $320 at launch, which seems comical for the fastest gaming part in the world at launch. As always, it doesn't matter which of these fuckin awful multinational companies "wins" and the only smart play is to buy what performs best for the money you have to spend. The market is going to start shifting much more radically than people have been used to the last few decades. AMD surprise dropping chiplets in Zen 2 was just the first salvo in a bizarre compute future.
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Oct 30, 2021 21:56
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:We can only imagine if AMD decided to also juice the gently caress out of their CPUS, Intel may as well leave the game. There's a finite amount of fab capacity in the world and Intel is still selling chips as fast as they can make them.
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Oct 30, 2021 22:19
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I am prone to extreme bouts of hyperbole & exaggeration
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Oct 30, 2021 22:21
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:I have no doubt alder lake will be an excellent and fast CPU especially for gaming, but Intel really needs to get a grip on its power draw Intel also ships with their CPUs more or less at a wall now, too. Designing CPUs is a tradeoff between size, power draw/heat, ipc, and frequency. AMD has really valued size & power draw* while trying to balance the other two. Intel is doing what they can with a design that favors frequency/ipc at the cost of trying to remain practical with size & heat. That's an over simplification given lots of other things go into it, but it should give some idea of why the CPUs are limited in the ways they are. We also have to consider that AMD planned on going against Alder Lake / later CPUs with CPUs they've already released. Intel is way behind on their roadmap and it gave AMD a ton of breathing room to compete head to head with CPUs they planned on selling dirt cheap on a $/core or perf/watt basis vs Intel's superior performance. AMD is also slipping a bit vs their projected roadmap with zen3 having delays & zen4 coming out a year+ late. * kinda, I mean the x570 chipset exists and amd's IO die is crazy power hungry Khorne fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Oct 30, 2021 |
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Oct 30, 2021 22:57
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I likely will be buying a new mobo and cpu soon. The asus AI overclocking seems interesting to me as a dipshit who still doesn't understand how to overclock. And I know people will say "Oh its not htat hard to understand" but I still don't really get it because I am dumb as a pile of rocks. Is the asus Ai overclock utitlity worth it?
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Oct 31, 2021 19:41
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At this point in the game, with modern CPUs, overclocking is becoming more trouble than it's worth. Gone are the days of getting an extra 20%+ extra by slapping on an AIO or Noctua. Nowadays getting close to that kind of gain requires delidding and liquid metal, and even then there's no guarantee. Also, auto-overclocking utilities like ASUS' will often use more VCore than might be necessary for the OCs they apply.
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Oct 31, 2021 19:48
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Makes sense. I know Intel is coming out with new CPUs soon, but looking at current gen ones I'm confused why it seems like the more expensive ones actually have slower clock speeds?
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Oct 31, 2021 19:50
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BIG HEADLINE posted:At this point in the game, with modern CPUs, overclocking is becoming more trouble than it's worth. Gone are the days of getting an extra 20%+ extra by slapping on an AIO or Noctua. Nowadays getting close to that kind of gain requires delidding and liquid metal, and even then there's no guarantee. Man, it used to be a lot more than 20%. Q6600s shipped at 2.4ghz with no turbo, the vast majority were happy at 3ghz with a cheap Zalmann cooler on them, and many could do 3.3 or 3.4ghz.
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Oct 31, 2021 20:00
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Skyarb posted:Makes sense. I know Intel is coming out with new CPUs soon, but looking at current gen ones I'm confused why it seems like the more expensive ones actually have slower clock speeds? The more expensive ones have more cores and thus are clocked lower to keep the package within thermal limits. The "Turbo Boost" clocks on the more expensive ones are higher but that doesn't necessarily apply to all cores. The other thing to keep in mind with Intel's newer chips is that they're utilizing a "Big/Little" architecture - it's Intel's first new architecture trick in a while, even though the concept isn't new. The 12900K has sixteen physical cores, but eight are "Performance" cores and the other eight are "Efficient" cores, and the chip has 24 threads. It's faster than the 5950X, but not by much and you probably won't have to heat the room it's in over the winter. It's kind of a bad time to be buying a CPU right now, but if you have to...  . Intel's always been in the habit of ditching/modifying their socket designs with each new refresh, and AMD hasn't committed to Socket AM5 (which isn't out yet and probably won't be halfway through next year, if not later) being as long-lived as AM4 was. AM5 supposedly won't even launch with PCIe 5.0 (not that anything on a consumer board will get even CLOSE to the theoretical max of an x8 or x16 5.0 slot), and no one's yet done/published a review that shows if the new Intel chips suffer a performance hit using DDR4 over DDR5, the latter costing ~3x+ what DDR4 does right now.
BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 20:04
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BIG HEADLINE posted:At this point in the game, with modern CPUs, overclocking is becoming more trouble than it's worth. Gone are the days of getting an extra 20%+ extra by slapping on an AIO or Noctua. Nowadays getting close to that kind of gain requires delidding and liquid metal, and even then there's no guarantee. The processors these days OC themselves, if you add more cooling they’ll happily run faster without you having to do anything. If you want to fiddle with stuff try and get stable RAM OC on AMD, otherwise just adding more cooling will give you the performance you needed fiddling for.
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Oct 31, 2021 20:11
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Twerk from Home posted:Man, it used to be a lot more than 20%. Q6600s shipped at 2.4ghz with no turbo, the vast majority were happy at 3ghz with a cheap Zalmann cooler on them, and many could do 3.3 or 3.4ghz. Celeron 300A set to 450, never forget
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Oct 31, 2021 20:53
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Cygni posted:Celeron 300A set to 450, never forget 2600K crew checking in. When I finally complete my Threadripper build (lol never custom water cool), I'm putting it + my P8P67 in a shadow box frame on the wall. It's been at 4.5 or 4.6 GHz for almost a decade now.
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Oct 31, 2021 20:59
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Cygni posted:Celeron 300A set to 450, never forget My first computer, when I was 9. Never forget.
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Oct 31, 2021 21:02
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Excessive moore's-law-still-alive-cpu-boomer smugness ITT
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Oct 31, 2021 21:24
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Excessive moore's-law-still-alive-cpu-boomer smugness ITT Didn't you hear? Pat Gelsinger saved Moore's law by adding the transistors on stacked chips, but only dividing by the area of the floor layer.
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Oct 31, 2021 21:29
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Excessive moore's-law-still-alive-cpu-boomer smugness ITT EUV will make it seem alive for a few more years.
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Oct 31, 2021 21:32
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mdxi posted:Didn't you hear? Pat Gelsinger saved Moore's law by adding the transistors on stacked chips, but only dividing by the area of the floor layer. Interestingly the original article by Gordon Moore in the 60s doesn’t really talk about transistor size scaling or transistor density very much. I think at the time he was thinking that the number of transistors per chip would increase just due to improved manufacturing know how enabling higher production yields for larger die sizes. Obviously transistor size scaling is primarily what enabled the great improvements in cost/function for computer chips, but it is interesting that that wasn’t really the emphasis in the original Moore’s Law prediction. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 21:48
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A seven-year-old gaming PC remaining competitive (or even viable) would have seemed absurd in the 90s. Yet here we are. The Alder Lake reviews later this week will be interesting.
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Nov 1, 2021 16:08
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Skyarb posted:I likely will be buying a new mobo and cpu soon. The asus AI overclocking seems interesting to me as a dipshit who still doesn't understand how to overclock. And I know people will say "Oh its not htat hard to understand" but I still don't really get it because I am dumb as a pile of rocks. Is the asus Ai overclock utitlity worth it? I recently did this for the first time on my 3570k and if you can spend an hour reading how tos it's pretty easy to do and satisfying in a tinkering kind of way. The most basic steps: -Adjust voltage to the CPU -Adjust the clock multiplier -Stress test There's a lot of information geared towards enthusiasts, but I think for most people it's just the above.
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Nov 1, 2021 20:46
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When will we start seeing this Alder Lake benchmarks?
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Nov 2, 2021 03:49
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Nov 4th, same day as release
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Nov 2, 2021 09:21
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Thanks, If those Cinebench numbers turn out to be reflective of general performance I might finally bite the bullet and get my first new computer since Q6600 lol. Of course I just ordered a new tiger lake work laptop but seeing as the X1 became available just a few weeks ago I'd probably be waiting forever for new laptops with this. Which is a bummer because that's where I would expect the little cores to make a difference as opposed to on the desktop
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Nov 2, 2021 17:19
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mobby_6kl posted:Thanks, If those Cinebench numbers turn out to be reflective of general performance I might finally bite the bullet and get my first new computer since Q6600 lol. Are you still using the Q6600 or you've just moved to laptops or using work machines for everything? I was thinking about Q6600s recently because apparently modern Atoms are about that level of performance, except at 6W rather than 100W+. Man I hope that we get an 8 or 16 core Gracemont atom processor soon. If the reported die space comparison that they've been making for Alder Lake is accurate, they could ship a 16 core atom that is similar die space to a 4 core Golden Cove processor.
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Nov 2, 2021 18:41
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Bring back those Intel Compute Sticks but with Gracemont cores and LPDDR5 and an Xe iGPU Hell yeah
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Nov 2, 2021 19:05
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Twerk from Home posted:Are you still using the Q6600 or you've just moved to laptops or using work machines for everything? I was thinking about Q6600s recently because apparently modern Atoms are about that level of performance, except at 6W rather than 100W+. I used it for a looong time, but not any more. I got a decommissioned sandy bridge machine from work maybe 5 years ago for a few bucks and then an ivy bridge optiplex a few years back when I needed USB 3 for VR. I'm a cheap bastard. The Q6600 was still fine for normal tasks, but I could never overclock my copy much and it was becoming an issue in games. My mom has a Atom tablet and it's also perfectly sufficient, but you can tell it's struggling a bit when there's a lot of JS on pages and so on. gradenko_2000 posted:Bring back those Intel Compute Sticks but with Gracemont cores and LPDDR5 and an Xe iGPU 
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Nov 2, 2021 19:53
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I picked up a Q6600 and Q9550 for playing with in Win11, but dont have the platform running yet cause i cant find my DDR2  . The Q6600 was literally $8 shipped from China.
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Nov 2, 2021 19:54
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Cygni posted:The Q6600 was literally $8 shipped from China. that processor is 15 years old, $8 seems excessive
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Nov 2, 2021 21:29
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