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Didn't thq implode and nearly take relic with it?
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Oct 31, 2021 06:59
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Gonna take what I'm pretty sure is the minority opinion in that I *hated* DoW2. I was a huge fan of Dawn of War 1 and Company of Heroes, and Dawn of War 2 felt like this weird attempt to bridge the gap to take some of the realism and squad combat from Company of Heroes which felt like it ruined the arcade nature of the franchise without actually adding anything. I might be overdue to reinstall CoH1 and give it another go. Tried with DoW1 but I'm spoiled by modern RTS games where the camera isn't five feet off the ground.
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Oct 31, 2021 07:00
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Up Circle posted:Didn't thq implode and nearly take relic with it? Miraculously (probably because CoH2 was legitimately a sleeper hit with a loyal fanbase and Relic kept supporting it), Relic didn't die when DoW3 was a disaster. In terms of ownership, Sega acquired Relic when THQ died; between Relic and Creative Assembly, Sega's PC market handlers (at least those not dealing with Japanese IPs) have legitimately been extremely canny with how they've treated their developers and the RTS/T market. Now Relic got a deal with Microsoft a couple tears back wherein they would work on AoE4, and until earlier this year the public wasn't aware that Relic was also developing CoH3 at the same time. Since AoE4 seems to have been received well and hopefully will do great, it certainly looks like Sega, of all companies, has become a pillar of modern strategy games.
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Oct 31, 2021 07:19
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I think I solved wood elves. But seriously, I have never seen this in an auto resolve before.  Also, his name being his title is because when I changed his name on recruit (it was the same as another of my Lords) it didn't add his title on office assignment and then his title wouldn't fit in the space provided for a name so I changed his name to his title and he's a very emo tree.
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Oct 31, 2021 07:32
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I didn't even know that you could get heroic victories in auto resolve.
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Oct 31, 2021 07:51
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Torrannor posted:I didn't even know that you could get heroic victories in auto resolve. Max rank lords with crazy items tends to do it, near end game my dawi stacks can usually heroic auto resolve the fresh chaos stacks because i could technically send my heroes alone. Belegar with ancestor ghosts in full kit are hilarious because you can push them all to at least 50% MR with items so that's max PR and ~50% MR so most things can barely touch them. Add rune of spite and perfect vigor with regen and you can yolo most armies.
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Oct 31, 2021 08:30
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Ojetor posted:It would be an incredibly dumb decision to make such a game instead of Total Warhammer 40k, might as well use the setting that is actually popular. AOS is popular, but it's not for middle aged men with chips on their shoulders.
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Oct 31, 2021 09:28
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Serephina posted:I don't think grognards are saying that AoS is currently selling poorly, but rather that they preferred WHF to it. Regardless, that's not the point. This logic doesn't really add up to me. Warhammer Fantasy was a dying IP for an extremely long time. Whether it was due to product line mismanagement or other factors, WHFB, at best, treaded water and at worst lost players with every edition, and things got bad enough that GW blew up the setting for a reboot because they believed it was a popularity dead end and wanted something more marketable. TWW was conceived and developed while the End Times to blow up the Fantasy setting were occurring, so it was a known factor that WHFB was toast - one of the pet theories everyone had when TWW was announced was that the only reason it even got greenlit was that GW felt that since WHFB was getting shot in the head, even if it turned out lovely it wouldn't damage the brand. Yeah, TWW ended up doing gangbusters and making the setting really popular, but that's an after-the-fact thing that happened in large part due to CA being an established and beloved developer with an established and beloved franchise/gameplay style, and how loving good the TWW games are and how much love and care was put into bringing the setting to life, not really that WHFB had a huge fanbase before the fact. If the only factor was "we want to focus on the most popular IP", they would never have made TWW in the first place. Kanos fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 11:54
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A 40k game in the warscape engine would be a terrible idea and I'm shocked people keep mentioning it. Industrial warfare, even the bastardized version of it that 40k uses, will never work properly in a game engine designed for units to march in rectangles.
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Oct 31, 2021 11:59
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Yeah while it would be interesting to see a 40k game at the scale of total war, I don't think it would really be able to simulate anything more advanced than Empire or maybe WW1.
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Oct 31, 2021 12:01
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40k Total War is one of those pipe dreams that I never understood. Still would like to see a Victorian-era historical game though I know the engine really isn't ideal for it.
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Oct 31, 2021 12:07
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah while it would be interesting to see a 40k game at the scale of total war, I don't think it would really be able to simulate anything more advanced than Empire or maybe WW1. You could simulate the first week of ww1 until everyone realizes that standing around to get shot is loving stupid and they start digging trench lines. No way could you do anything resembling the Somme in the TW engine. Even setting aside all of the technical problems you can't simulate a battle that lasts months in a TW campaign layer.
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Oct 31, 2021 12:20
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DaysBefore posted:40k Total War is one of those pipe dreams that I never understood. Still would like to see a Victorian-era historical game though I know the engine really isn't ideal for it. Just make me Dawn of War 2.1 with all the same stuff but better and more
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Oct 31, 2021 12:25
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JBP posted:Just make me Dawn of War 2.1 with all the same stuff but better and more Okay yeah I'm all for that. Either Dawn of War 1 or Dawn of War 2 style, just give me a third game which as we all know Relic never did
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Oct 31, 2021 12:29
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yeah I'd very much prefer a new Dawn of War that takes some notes from TWW than trying to fit the square peg of 40k into the round hole of TW
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Oct 31, 2021 12:30
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AnEdgelord posted:You could simulate the first week of ww1 until everyone realizes that standing around to get shot is loving stupid and they start digging trench lines. No way could you do anything resembling the Somme in the TW engine. Even setting aside all of the technical problems you can't simulate a battle that lasts months in a TW campaign layer. You could have opposing rows of dockable trench lines where everyone sits and shoots at each other until you turn the game off and where leaving the trench results in whoever does it getting shot to pieces, but also you get freespawn armies of rifle dudes every turn at your nearest settlement. Like the current chaos invasion mechanics except kislev has max walls and that is the entire game  Everywhere has the plague also and the artillery is even more bullshit than hellcannons.
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 12:33
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The people who ask for 40k total war kind of just want "40k at total war scale" - I don't think they're literally asking for 3k or tww with a 40k coat of paint on. I don't know if they know how big an undertaking that would be, but I'd surely be more generous than assuming they want square blocks of space marines shooting at each other in a field. E: also Age of Sigmar should get a Age of Wonders style game. There's been like, maybe two good AoS video games so far and it makes me very annoyed.
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Oct 31, 2021 12:33
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Maybe something like Wargame: Red Dragon but with 40k factions would be best
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Oct 31, 2021 13:04
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Age of sigmar could have fantastic names under its belt and I wouldn't refuse to play them. I like fantasy lore better, but AoS is built from the ground up to have some good games based in it, we just need to wait.
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Oct 31, 2021 13:06
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A 40k rts would be cool, but if it's not going to have it be big square formations shooting each other, why would you want CA to develop it when they've been exclusively making big square formation games since the year 2000.
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Oct 31, 2021 13:11
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Relic's next Company of Heroes title is toying with a larger map where you have a variety of critical and non-critical engagements taking place over a significant area, zooming into the critical battles to actually play an RTS with the different adjacent areas you hold helping to influence what you can bring as support to a battle like artillery and such. If they're able to implement that in a way that works it has potential for a future 40k title.
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Oct 31, 2021 13:12
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AnEdgelord posted:You could simulate the first week of ww1 until everyone realizes that standing around to get shot is loving stupid and they start digging trench lines. No way could you do anything resembling the Somme in the TW engine. Even setting aside all of the technical problems you can't simulate a battle that lasts months in a TW campaign layer. Even that isn't accurate. French and german troops in the frontiers fought in loose order lines. They weren't plowing away with bolt-action rifles in shoulder-to-shoulder napoleonic lines.
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Oct 31, 2021 13:18
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blocks of space marines shooting at each other isn’t necessarily that different from how I remember 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th edition games playing out
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Oct 31, 2021 13:24
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:blocks of space marines shooting at each other isn’t necessarily that different from how I remember 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th edition games playing out At least in 5th edition those space marines would be inside a rhino transport until they needed to get out and shoot someone which is already 3 things that would melt the warscape engine (vehicle, storing a unit inside another unit, killing a unit with a unit still inside it and having the stored unit survive) and even then all four editions you listed still have a more in depth cover system than any TW game (in that they actually have a cover system)
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Oct 31, 2021 13:35
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TheLastRoboKy posted:Relic's next Company of Heroes title is toying with a larger map where you have a variety of critical and non-critical engagements taking place over a significant area, zooming into the critical battles to actually play an RTS with the different adjacent areas you hold helping to influence what you can bring as support to a battle like artillery and such. If they're able to implement that in a way that works it has potential for a future 40k title. yea, very interested to see how their implementation of a total war style campaign map works out
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Oct 31, 2021 13:52
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:blocks of space marines shooting at each other isn’t necessarily that different from how I remember 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th edition games playing out My longest standing memories of 3E and 4E were as many minimum-sized marine squads as you could fit in a force org chart because you could only bring one heavy and one special weapon per squad so you wanted to cram in as many lascannons and plasma guns or whatever as possible.
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Oct 31, 2021 14:14
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AnEdgelord posted:At least in 5th edition those space marines would be inside a rhino transport until they needed to get out and shoot someone which is already 3 things that would melt the warscape engine (vehicle, storing a unit inside another unit, killing a unit with a unit still inside it and having the stored unit survive) and even then all four editions you listed still have a more in depth cover system than any TW game (in that they actually have a cover system) All the stuff you mentioned exists in the warscape engine. Cover systems, putting units inside things, vehicles with individual units in them, these were all bullet points for Empire Total War.
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Oct 31, 2021 20:14
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You can already partially survive a siege tower collapse in TWH I think. Also they did the whole "people on boats" thing for atilla, naval landings etc. But while empire does have a "cover system" it is very janky and certainly not suitable, I think, for a real industrial warfare game, though I would like garrisoning buildings back, the actual taking cover behind things in the field was pretty crap, it's just stacking your square up behind a knee high wall, it's not like company of heroes where they spread out and take cover behind whatever.
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Oct 31, 2021 20:47
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AnEdgelord posted:A 40k game in the warscape engine would be a terrible idea and I'm shocked people keep mentioning it. Industrial warfare, even the bastardized version of it that 40k uses, will never work properly in a game engine designed for units to march in rectangles. I guess I wasn't explicit enough, but this is part of my point. AoS plays far more like 40K than it does WHFB. So if CA was going to go for another Total War using a GW IP, it would make no sense to go for AoS over 40K. It's the same amount of effort to convert either game, and as far as I know, 40K still vastly outsells all other wargames.
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Oct 31, 2021 20:49
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OwlFancier posted:You can already partially survive a siege tower collapse in TWH I think. 5 months ago flying units couldn't land at command either, and now they can.(Well in Troy and WH3 )You mentioned the siege towers, but I was thinking more that the crews of ships were counted as unique units. The health of the ship itself and the crew were counted separately. You can bring this same system to some sort of transport vehicle or whatever. What I'm saying is that a lot of basic systems exist in the engine already, CA just needs to keep developing them. A WH40K game would be a good excuse to revisit all these systems and expand them/make them work better. I do believe that a TW 40K game is coming at some point. Like someone mentioned already, it's a big juicy IP and much like Warhammer Fantasy it's a good opportunity to expand how the TW franchise plays. Remember folks, nobody believed that a Warhammer Total War game would work 10 years ago, because Warhammer has dragons and magic, and Total War is about spearmanii rubbing against other spearmanii.
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Oct 31, 2021 21:15
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Electronico6 posted:Remember folks, nobody believed that a Warhammer Total War game would work 10 years ago, because Warhammer has dragons and magic, and Total War is about spearmanii rubbing against other spearmanii. Uh, it was one of the main fanwank ideas for as long as I can remember. I was playing Rome 1 right after Storm of Chaos ended at like 10 or 11 and thinking "holy gently caress what if this game but it's warhammer" and I wasn't alone.
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Oct 31, 2021 21:25
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Same. One of my initial thoughts, when I discovered TW and played Medieval 2 for the first time was "wow a game like this in Warhammer setting would be absolutely amazing". It's just a natural fit IMHO.
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Oct 31, 2021 21:39
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Electronico6 posted:Like someone mentioned already, it's a big juicy IP and much like Warhammer Fantasy it's a good opportunity to expand how the TW franchise plays. Remember folks, nobody believed that a Warhammer Total War game would work 10 years ago, because Warhammer has dragons and magic, and Total War is about spearmanii rubbing against other spearmanii. What are you talking about? Call of Warhammer is decades old at this point.
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Oct 31, 2021 21:40
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Uh, it was one of the main fanwank ideas for as long as I can remember. I was playing Rome 1 right after Storm of Chaos ended at like 10 or 11 and thinking "holy gently caress what if this game but it's warhammer" and I wasn't alone. I do remember that. I also remember Middle Earth TW, Warcraft TW, and other variations of Science Fiction/Fantasy IP + Total War. I mean, that's basically what we're doing here "holy gently caress what if this game but it's 40k"
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Oct 31, 2021 21:46
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Delving into the fantasy genre was always an obvious step for the TW franchise; one of the most famous total war mods was the Third Age mod, which (somewhat wonkily) adapted Lord of the Rings into the Total War engine. The leap to post 19th century warfare is a much bigger one than making it so that some of the spearmanii have pointy ears or are green. Not that it's impossible, just that to make a 40k game they'd either have to switch to squad based tactics which would be a huge change in the series; or stick to larger formations which might be a bit janky. Making Fantasy 2: this time its planescape is a much more obvious step forward.
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Oct 31, 2021 21:47
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DaysBefore posted:Maybe something like Wargame: Red Dragon but with 40k factions would be best Yah that would rule
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Oct 31, 2021 21:55
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AnEdgelord posted:What are you talking about? Call of Warhammer is decades old at this point. That mod was comically janky but it was good, it was peak russian modding talent.
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Oct 31, 2021 22:16
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Uh, it was one of the main fanwank ideas for as long as I can remember. I was playing Rome 1 right after Storm of Chaos ended at like 10 or 11 and thinking "holy gently caress what if this game but it's warhammer" and I wasn't alone. I'll see you that and raise you playing Shogun 1 and thinking it was turning WFB into a computer game. 40k is a whole different can of worms and is more a platoon level game with scattered troops, ranged fire, and about as bad a fit for Total War as the second world war would be.
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Oct 31, 2021 22:30
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Uh, it was one of the main fanwank ideas for as long as I can remember. I was playing Rome 1 right after Storm of Chaos ended at like 10 or 11 and thinking "holy gently caress what if this game but it's warhammer" and I wasn't alone. March of Chaos was released in 2006 and was literally just proto-TWW except made by the C-list Black Hole Entertainment(who went on to make the mediocre HoMM6 before shutting down) rather than Creative Assembly, so yeah.
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Oct 31, 2021 22:36
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TW40k would totally work. Skaven have vehicles, machine guns, etc; 40k has plenty of dudes with swords and giant melee units. It would be more range-focused, but it would work.
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Oct 31, 2021 22:52
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