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The BMI doesn't take into account how each one of us is actually a large bodybuilder.
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Nov 1, 2021 21:45
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FogHelmut posted:The BMI doesn't take into account how each one of us is actually a large bodybuilder.
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Nov 1, 2021 21:47
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The Modern Leper posted:BMI (which would be the basis for this type of claim) is absolutely bullshit. Absolutely, health outcomes in the US are abysmal, but using that as a framework without a component of clinical significance is not useful. I don't disagree with you, but it's one of the key inputs for the booster guidelines. Blame the FDA/CDC, I guess. (After consuming way too many articles and studies about COVID vaccines and treatments, I'm still unclear on which federal agency has responsibility for what. The FDA approves vaccines, but the CDC Chairperson has the final say?)
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Nov 1, 2021 21:48
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WhiteHowler posted:I don't disagree with you, but it's one of the key inputs for the booster guidelines. Blame the FDA/CDC, I guess. The guidelines are stupid to prioritize the unhealthy first - when there are plenty of vaccines available. If the shots are safe for the fatties and the unhealthiest people, theyre safe for the healthy too. Healthy people die of Covid. Go get boosters, no pharmacist gives a drat anymore.
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Nov 1, 2021 21:50
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The Modern Leper posted:No one told that to the NIH or CDC unfortunately, as they both have calculators on their sites. Yeah that's all they have to work with since it's used officially. I think it's time we come up with something better.
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Nov 1, 2021 21:51
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bad boys for life posted:The guidelines are stupid to prioritize the unhealthy first - when there are plenty of vaccines available. There's no "first" because there's currently no plan to boost anyone else. If you are "healthy", <65, and don't work a "high-risk" job then your waning protection should be drat well good enough what are you complaining about Open Biden. It's yet another admission that they give zero shits about controlling spread, or at least can't be assed to make a plan that would feasibly reduce spread as much as possible under their dumb "vaccines only" approach. Stickman fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Nov 1, 2021 |
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Nov 1, 2021 21:55
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Yeah, there are plenty of people who are not antivax but are too honest, or ignorant, or feel guilty about taking boosters away from eligible people. You're not taking away anything, there are more than plenty, get boostered even if you have to fib.
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Nov 1, 2021 22:06
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https://twitter.com/FilmThePoliceLA/status/1445566038855217158
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Nov 1, 2021 22:44
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Stickman posted:It's yet another admission that they give zero shits about controlling spread, or at least can't be assed to make a plan that would feasibly reduce spread as much as possible under their dumb "vaccines only" approach. OK so I'm not following American news in particular these days, but didn't the vaccine mandates on federal employees work quite well, for one? I don't know why NPIs seem to have been abandoned, though. It would have been pretty sensible to communicate some plan to the public like "at 80% vaxx in a state, that state may remove mask mandates" or whatever. Would have given people a stick and a carrot at the same time. But I'm sure that would have been unconstitutional or something?
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Nov 1, 2021 22:44
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Hellblazer187 posted:This feels like a mistake. Like I get that everyone wants a booster but if entire continents remain mostly unvaxxed that's just going to breed more variants which will break through the vaccines people in rich countries have. the mistake is blaming the people who want a booster cuz they want the best chance of not getting covid instead of blaming the vaccine manufacturers who aren't expanding production capacity or sharing the recipe
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Nov 1, 2021 23:13
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Everyone reading this can get a booster and should.
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Nov 1, 2021 23:36
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Pennywise the Frown posted:I'm pretty sure BMI was created to measure large populations and it's not a good tool to use for the individual.
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Nov 1, 2021 23:52
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ArbitraryC posted:People online are very quick to trot this out but the reality is your average person is pretty average. I see you've never been to the US. (I'm pretty sure you're American so you might just be delusional. Unless you mean "average" as overweight or obese). Not only are there undeniable statistics but just like.... go outside. Look around.) ArbitraryC posted:that's strictly the domain of goons living in denial. This is true though I'm sure. Pennywise the Frown fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Nov 1, 2021 |
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Nov 1, 2021 23:53
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ArbitraryC posted:People online are very quick to trot this out but the reality is your average person is pretty average. People for whom BMI is not a reasonably effective tool for measuring their level of obesity aren't arguing online about how unrealistic of a figure it is because their level of fitness is self evident in their day to day life, that's strictly the domain of goons living in denial. That used to be me. Then I graduated high school.
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Nov 1, 2021 23:53
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WhiteHowler posted:I don't disagree with you, but it's one of the key inputs for the booster guidelines. Blame the FDA/CDC, I guess. FDA has approved Pfizer’s vaccine. It’s a normal pharmaceutical that can be prescribed by doctors or administered by pharmacists according to their professional judgement. Modern’s and J&J’s are authorized for emergency use by the CDC. The rules under which it is authorized are relatively narrow must be followed strictly. For example, before the CDC issued letters of amendment, immunocompromised people could not get third shots even if their doctors thought it would be a good idea. The only thing authorized was the primary series of one does for J&J and two for the others. Mr Luxury Yacht posted:In good news: I can believe it. It’s anecdotal, but there were a surprising number of people who got the J&J vaccine when it was first available because they felt it was more “traditional”. It’s not—viral vector vaccines are more or less* just as new as mRNA vaccines—but perception is what it is. *Basic research on VV goes back a little further and the first deployed VV vaccine is not for COVID but for Ebola in 2019. It was a completely different vector, though, not the adenoviruses used in the COVID vaccines.
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Nov 1, 2021 23:58
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Pennywise the Frown posted:I see you've never been to the US. (I'm pretty sure you're American so you might just be delusional. Unless you mean "average" as overweight or obese). Not only are there undeniable statistics but just like.... go outside. Look around.) Yes, average weight of americans is overweight/obese now. By your "average person is average" I meant that bmi is a functional tool for them, they're not sitting at 30 bmi because of unusual measurements or an inordinate amount of muscle, they're just an average fat person.
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Nov 1, 2021 23:59
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Just because you don't get your booster doesn't mean that someone impoverished on another continent will get it.
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Nov 2, 2021 00:00
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ArbitraryC posted:Yes, average weight of americans is overweight/obese now. By your "average person is average" I meant that bmi is a functional tool for them, they're not sitting at 30 bmi because of unusual measurements or an inordinate amount of muscle, they're just an average fat person. Oh ok I get it. I didn't gather what you were saying in your post. My bad!
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Nov 2, 2021 00:01
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Dren posted:the mistake is blaming the people who want a booster cuz they want the best chance of not getting covid instead of blaming the vaccine manufacturers who aren't expanding production capacity or sharing the recipe I do not blame individuals seeking boosters. I blame national governments of rich countries buying up the vaccines. The rich countries need to buy vaccines to distribute to poor countries. It's the only way this ends. As an individual you getting a booster or not really doesn't make a difference - the government bought all the vaccines and they'll get thrown away if they expire. Edit: To clarify, I did say "I get that everyone wants a booster" which does sort of indicate I blame the booster seekers. I blame the governments creating enough excess stock in rich countries that anyone can get a booster any time they want no questions asked. At a certain point more boosters within the USA's borders don't make the USA safer, when poor countries are breeding new variants, and that could have been prevented by distributing vaccines rather than hoarding them. Hellblazer187 fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Nov 2, 2021 |
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Nov 2, 2021 00:04
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Look at the data out of Israel. Boosters appear to be the difference there between growing and declining cases, and this was true for every age group. They do not appear to be an additional luxury so much as a strict necessity.
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Nov 2, 2021 00:16
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Scarodactyl posted:Look at the data out of Israel. Boosters appear to be the difference there between growing and declining cases, and this was true for every age group. They do not appear to be an additional luxury so much as a strict necessity. They're not a necessity if you control your outbreak with NPIs while using vaccination and aid to work towards control in less fortunate countries. They're only a necessity now because the wealthy world had a fundamentally broken pandemic response and then leaned into their control of wealth and means of production.
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Nov 2, 2021 00:21
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Hellblazer187 posted:I do not blame individuals seeking boosters. I blame national governments of rich countries buying up the vaccines. The rich countries need to buy vaccines to distribute to poor countries. It's the only way this ends. As an individual you getting a booster or not really doesn't make a difference - the government bought all the vaccines and they'll get thrown away if they expire. They are working on it. They just need to get their poo poo together and make sure we can produce it, deliver it, and make sure their populations take it. And we probably can't do the latter. gently caress, we're having a hard enough time in the US getting that done. https://apnews.com/article/united-nations-general-assembly-joe-biden-pandemics-business-united-nations-e7c09c1f896d83c0ed80513082787bd3 We won't make those goals anytime soon
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Nov 2, 2021 00:23
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Strep Vote posted:Everyone reading this can get a booster and should. I can think of at least 4 regular posters ITT who can't just off the top of my head, and I'm only eligible through a loophole.
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Nov 2, 2021 00:32
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I live in Canada, not sure but I think I heard the only people eligible for boosters now are people who are immunocompromised, havnt heard anything about when the general population might start getting them
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Nov 2, 2021 00:37
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https://twitter.com/SallyGold/status/1455318123465293833 who's breaking street date
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Nov 2, 2021 00:39
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Strep Vote posted:Everyone reading this can get a booster and should. Incorrect. Not everyone is in the US, and plenty of other places aren't saying you can get a booster for the reasons you can in the US.
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Nov 2, 2021 00:46
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There are guidelines in the US still. They're just really.... really loose. So yeah, just about anyone can get one. From what I've seen if you basically work with anyone you can get one. I think most people do. Also the whole overweight thing which we've discussed already. More people can probably get the booster than will ever get one.
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Nov 2, 2021 00:48
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12-15 year olds have been approved for a while now, right? I've barely noticed any sort of uptick in vaccine percentages since that was announced, like 7% increase here and that's probably including vaccine mandates. Still only 51% fully vaccinated in my county.
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Nov 2, 2021 00:53
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ArbitraryC posted:Yes, average weight of americans is overweight/obese now. By your "average person is average" I meant that bmi is a functional tool for them, they're not sitting at 30 bmi because of unusual measurements or an inordinate amount of muscle, they're just an average fat person. My last word on this derail... I'm saying that it's not a functional tool for them, because for wide swaths of this population, qualifying as "overweight" (or even, for some, "obese") has no meaningful clinical significance. Like, if you want to make a generalized statement from the perspective of population health, or if you individually want to have some "scientific" metric to meet your personal weight goals, then go off. But (purely) anecdotally, of the broad range of people I know who would fall on a spectrum between "overweight" and the lower end of "obese," the only reliably determinative factor in terms of fitness, diet, or lifestyle is "over the age of 40".
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Nov 2, 2021 00:59
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King Vidiot posted:12-15 year olds have been approved for a while now, right? Pfizer’s vaccine has been available for that age group in the U.S. since May 10 under EUA. FDA approval did not include that age group, so they’re still handled under the emergency use provisions.
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Nov 2, 2021 01:01
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The Modern Leper posted:My last word on this derail... I'm saying that it's not a functional tool for them, because for wide swaths of this population, qualifying as "overweight" (or even, for some, "obese") has no meaningful clinical significance. Everyone you know is fat, and you're afraid to admit it It's okay, pretty much everyone in America is fat, and a lot of the civilized world, if you look at the data.
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Nov 2, 2021 01:54
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King Vidiot posted:12-15 year olds have been approved for a while now, right? I've barely noticed any sort of uptick in vaccine percentages since that was announced, like 7% increase here and that's probably including vaccine mandates. Still only 51% fully vaccinated in my county. I looked at NYT's "at least one dose" numbers for the 12-17 category. They report 11 states with that age group at 70% or more vaccinated. Only 7 states reported having 40% or less of that age group vaccinated. Large disparities, probably not a huge number in your area, but for all the NYT articles on "parents aren't sure if they'll get their kids the shots", it seems like a pretty large uptake.
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Nov 2, 2021 02:05
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satanic splash-back posted:Everyone you know is fat, and you're afraid to admit it Actually, we're all overweight.  The question is, does that word actually have any meaning for our individual health, or is it just a descriptive word to sell diet kits?
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Nov 2, 2021 02:22
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The Modern Leper posted:Actually, we're all overweight. You do realize you are posting this take in a thread about Covid 19, a virus wherein being overweight is considered a statistically relevant comorbidity to the point medical professionals consider it a reason to prioritize the original vaccine and now follow up boosters, right?
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Nov 2, 2021 02:28
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The Modern Leper posted:Actually, we're all overweight. Isn't it based on increased risk of heart problems, diabetes, etc, which are correlated with increased covid risks? (Compared to non-overweight individuals) Edit: beaten as always
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Nov 2, 2021 02:28
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ArbitraryC posted:You do realize you are posting this take in a thread about Covid 19, a virus wherein being overweight is considered a statistically relevant comorbidity to the point medical professionals consider it a reason to prioritize the original vaccine and now follow up boosters, right? Sorry, this all started as a derail on a derail on a castoff dunk on someone's goonsay. Carry on.
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Nov 2, 2021 02:33
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The Computational Epidemiology Lab at Boston Children's Hospital ran the numbers and found that 89% of the US adult population would be eligible for boosters under the current rulesquote:The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has guidelines for who is considered high risk for Covid-19. They include people in certain jobs, such as teachers and health care workers, as well as anyone who is overweight, has depression or a long list of other medical conditions.
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Nov 2, 2021 02:35
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quote:89% of vaccinated adults who are sufficiently past their original vaccinations qualify for boosters.
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Nov 2, 2021 02:46
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i like nice words
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legooolas posted:Incorrect.
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Nov 2, 2021 02:52
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deep dish peat moss posted:We just have to hope that strains with weaker symptoms emerge over time and become dominant (which is certainly a possibility if for example people with more serious strains stay home but people with weaker strains don't). It's probably going to be a seasonal thing like the flu for most of the rest of our lives Given how quickly the current strains spread, the fact that they have a pre-symptomatic incubation period of at least several days and at least 30%-50% of cases are asymptomatic but still contagious there's zero evolutionary pressure on the virus to become less severe, and as we've already seen the more communicable variants that have emerged and outcompeted the older variants so far haven't lost any of their kick. It might happen but I wouldn't bank on it happening anytime soon. Finland is planning on vaccinating their entire population of farmed minks with the mink-specific FurcoVac covid vaxx in order to prevent any potential covid outbreak like they had in Denmark, where they ended up culling millions of mink and bulldozing their corpses into the ground. It's a different vaxx than the human vaxxes so the mink aren't directly stealing shots out of human arms but it uses the same raw materials so you could argue that it was indirectly depleting human vaccine production capacity. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-11/minks-to-get-covid-jabs-in-finland-after-danes-culled-millions Rich people's future fur coats are going to receive way more covid vaxx than people in 3rd world countries. 
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Nov 2, 2021 03:01
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