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Well that's a different matter, and would be fine. I'm concerned mostly with the significance of the "true ending" being preserved because... it seems like an important thing to do. Also, I'm watching the fighting game player Hotashi's play through of this, and he shot a probe that clipped through the quantum moon shrine's blockage at the 6th location, and he saw the eye reflection and even noticed Solanum moving. Wild poo poo.
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Oct 29, 2021 03:18
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Just finished the DLC a few hours ago and admittedly I'm a little tipsy but I'm still emotional about it, thinking about it and reading this thread. What a masterpiece this game is. I cannot believe they managed to not just capture lightning in a bottle a second time, but also do so in a way that enhances the original game.
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Oct 31, 2021 09:52
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Also just finished the DLC. Really glad I stuck through it. I totally psyched myself up on the creepyness to the point I was a little nervous to play at times, but the payoffs were so incredibly worth it. Like after hours of being super scared while exploring the dream, and finally finding a stranger, I ran up and gave them a hug, since I felt like the sooner I get that over with the better....and the animation of them winding back, opening their mouth....and blowing out their candle, was just masterful. Everything about The Stranger is so incredibly strong and well executed in terms of oscillating between unsettling and intriguing. I loved that upon finding the location of the my first seal code, I was like "oh, I guess I'll find it somewhere else...?" until I had found the third burned portrait, and it clicked to me that I'd be using totally different tools to get the seals. I love how it all clicked together for me. Finishing the game again Hit me a lot more then it did the first time now that I didn't have the nerves of the gravity of the mission - Solanum's piano version of the song is so drat beautiful.
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Oct 31, 2021 19:40
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Did u all play with reduced frights or full unmitigated frights, j/w
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Oct 31, 2021 19:49
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Reduced frights on I had it off until I actually got jumped by a stranger while trying to make my way down the well. I had also ran into the ones in the woods at this point and kinda wasn't too down for stealth sections in the dark. What exactly does it change? Are they just less aggressive / chase you less?
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Oct 31, 2021 20:14
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They're just way way way slower iirc. I was curious to see if it's still good practice to tell people to just enable that poo poo immediately at the first sign of frustration. Given your feelings on the dlc I think it's prob generally good advice for most  (tho I can see them heavily tuning it as time goes on with future patches since everyone hates this the most)
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Oct 31, 2021 20:18
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One thought is (big DLC spoilers) Gaining the information to go into simulation mode could be really helpful for those sections if leaving behind your lantern didn't also mean disabling your ability to do a lot of things. Like I didn't test it a lot since it was one of the last pieces of information I got, so I don't know if you can really use it to circumvent any of the harder stealth sections.
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Oct 31, 2021 20:23
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There are only two mandatory segments and both of them are like... three seconds long. The first one requires briefly running in a straight line and the second requires the same plus a single jump. Every other section can be handled a different way. And thats assuming you dont figure out any of the tricks in advance, or you can skip those too
GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 20:31
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GlyphGryph posted:There are only two mandatory segments and both of them are like... three seconds long. The first one requires briefly running in a straight line and the second requires the same plus a single jump. I mean yeah if u immediately know exactly what to do and where to go and memorize every single mechanic beforehand in the exact correct order it's extremely easy! You can beat this whole game in 20min too
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Oct 31, 2021 20:37
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GlyphGryph posted:There are only two mandatory segments and both of them are like... three seconds long. The first one requires briefly running in a straight line and the second requires the same plus a single jump. Every other section can be handled a different way. Isn't there the the lodge where you need to get down to the mural, where the route changes when you put out the light? That seemed like it could easily be a pretty tough section if you don't have a really good understanding of the layout.
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Oct 31, 2021 20:38
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beep by grandpa posted:I mean yeah if u immediately know exactly what to do and where to go and memorize every single mechanic beforehand in the exact correct order it's extremely easy! No, this is based on only learning things through basic exploration and the pieces expressly given to you. Like I said if you know exactly what to do then you can skip both of those two. I know there's only two though because I only did two of them  Oxyclean posted:Isn't there the the lodge where you need to get down to the mural, where the layout changes when you put out the light? That seemed like it could easily be a pretty tough section if you don't have a really good understanding of the layout. I dont recall this at all, so its probably not necessary! Unless you mean the section where the dude chases you across the bridge, thats one of the two GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 20:41
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Oxyclean posted:Isn't there the the lodge where you need to get down to the mural, where the route changes when you put out the light? That seemed like it could easily be a pretty tough section if you don't have a really good understanding of the layout. There's a solution that involves almost no stealth. You send down the elevator to the boat dock, then turn out the lights, exit the dream, come in from a different entrance, ride the boat in, and take the elevator in the back way. Along this route, there is only a single pursuer at the bottom of the stairs in the lodge, and you can either outrun him or sneak past pretty trivially. I'd say the only part that absolutely forces you to engage with stealth is Starlit Cove and even then you can skip the harder part of the stealth by dropping down the bridge area from the balcony at the start, skipping the pursuer guarding the cave that leads to the bridge.
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Oct 31, 2021 21:02
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Thoom posted:There's a solution that involves almost no stealth. You send down the elevator to the boat dock, then turn out the lights, exit the dream, come in from a different entrance, ride the boat in, and take the elevator in the back way. Along this route, there is only a single pursuer at the bottom of the stairs in the lodge, and you can either outrun him or sneak past pretty trivially. That's amazing. I don't think that would have dawned one me since I pursued what felt like the "obvious" route. Is it possible to get through the fireplace without waiting for the woodlands to flood? Like can you manage to book it past the dudes? Or the only real solution to wait for them to get extinguished? I guess that solution might lead to more creative pathing while tackling the other shrouded regions. There's also a hidden bridge from the entry side of the canyon right over to the elevator which might make your first route even more simple? I ended up entering the gorge/canyon dream on my final run since it's the safest location from the flood before forgetting that I didn't know how to get down to the river until I looked around in VR vision. I love that the coffin is a final knowledge check that needs 3 keys....just not the ones you first thought it would.
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Nov 1, 2021 01:58
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Oxyclean posted:That's amazing. I don't think that would have dawned one me since I pursued what felt like the "obvious" route. I tried that on my first attempt. There is no physical barrier and you can run through the fireplace while alerting them all, but they will follow and clip through the elevator to grab you so you can't actually make it downstairs
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Nov 1, 2021 02:09
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However, if you somehow figured out the raft glitch, you can get to it before the flooding happens.
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Nov 1, 2021 03:05
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Oxyclean posted:That's amazing. I don't think that would have dawned one me since I pursued what felt like the "obvious" route. Yeah, there's two "safe" routes in the canyon. The first is taking the raft to the dock and going in the back door. The second is only if you figured out the lantern trick on your own (since you get told about it by completing that area) and is much easier, since you just walk across the invisible bridge like you said. But the first one doesn't require figuring that out and is still a main stop on the raft ride, so after extinguishing the first area it seems like a fairly obvious solution - if you think to actually work around things, which is the hard part. Then once you have that you can do a bit of scouting in the well without your lantern, and realize "oh, I can literally just jump out this window and run straight across", which is exactly what I did for that part.
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Nov 1, 2021 05:10
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Can't stop thinkin about the game/dlc. (Base and DLC spoilers) I still find myself wondering what exactly is the eye's signal / the true nature of the eye? Like, from what we observe, it seems to exist to reset/start a new universe. By the time we hit it, we are given the impression the universe is old, and about to die, so it's very necessary. But the eye was sending off a signal some 300,000 years ago, when the Nomai first found it, but also, presumably a good deal before that when The Strangers heard it. Was the eye sending off a signal from the very start? Or is everyone involved just in a universe that's too old? Or can someone have restarted the universe "too soon?" Also, my head canon is the signal is the previous universe's equivalent to the song we play to make the new universe. I like to think some other aliens in the new one will hear the music of the travelers. (DLC spoilers) I'm also kind of wondering about the strangers - I guess they all locked themselves in the simulation long, long ago, so they never noticed the Nomai arrive? I still remember my early speculation was that they got ghost mattered, and figured there was going to be a more horror element to them being "trapped." (Or maybe have gone mad, and would be scary monsters in the dream.) The payoff was so much better. The undamaged slide adding in the information of why they didn't go home was both "oh!" and "oh...." because I definitely had a "why didn't they start the trip home" thought.
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Nov 1, 2021 16:22
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Oxyclean posted:Can't stop thinkin about the game/dlc. The eye and its signal are both indicated by the Nomai to be older than the universe itself. Presumably the eye has always been there, always sending off the signal, its just that the Stranger-folk blocked it for most of the time. From the eye's perspective there is no concept of "too soon", and that's why the owls freaked out when they learned what it did, and that using it really would effectively kill them all. I really dig the song idea, btw. It's definitely my head-canon now.
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Nov 1, 2021 16:55
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Oxyclean posted:Can't stop thinkin about the game/dlc. From the full undamaged slide about the Eye's discover it does seem to indicate that it just started suddenly one day and the Strangers were the closest species capable of seeing it. Maybe it can perceive the entropy of the universe and when it reaches a certain amount it sends out a "Your universe has updates and needs to be restarted". [Enter the Eye as a conscious observer and restart] [Freak out, block the signal and restart later]
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Nov 2, 2021 12:24
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Also, when you start the ending sequence by entering the eye, you see a sort of time lapse of the universe ending. because time has no meaning in the ending, it could be that the universe is ended directly by you entering the eye, or it could be possible you're seeing everything playing out in fast forward. It's kinda moot though, as the old universe is gone anyway.
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Nov 2, 2021 15:19
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I think enough time has passed since the DLC came out than I can safely say it was pretty silly to have the plot advanced through depiction of human facial emotions projected on alien beings. Beyond the first order absurdity of a completely alien creature evolving the same bilateral facial features and muscles capable of similar expressions, you then had the second-order, in-universe conceit that a four eyed Hearthian itself has similar humanoid emotions and facial responses, and also can see and understand the emotions of another alien species that happens to have similar emotions. And then there's the, uh, zero-th order factor of whether or not a portion of the intended audience can necessarily tell what the depicted expressions are meant to convey anyway, so they have to be as exaggerated as possible. I get why they didn't want to have your translator suddenly able to read a canonically foreign language, but... what they came up with didn't really make things any better in the end.
Linguica fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 00:42
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You're right, they should have devised a whole new dichotomy of facial language completely foreign to the humans that would play this game and add 5 more hours of content devoted to learning how to decipher their body and facial language
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Nov 3, 2021 01:19
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Linguica posted:I think enough time has passed since the DLC came out than I can safely say it was pretty silly to have the plot advanced through depiction of human facial emotions projected on alien beings. Beyond the first order absurdity of a completely alien creature evolving the same bilateral facial features and muscles capable of similar expressions, you then had the second-order, in-universe conceit that a four eyed Hearthian itself has similar humanoid emotions and facial responses, and also can see and understand the emotions of another alien species that happens to have similar emotions. And then there's the, uh, zero-th order factor of whether or not a portion of the intended audience can necessarily tell what the depicted expressions are meant to convey anyway, so they have to be as exaggerated as possible. I get why they didn't want to have your translator suddenly able to read a canonically foreign language, but... what they came up with didn't really make things any better in the end. perhaps they simply just wanted to tell a story in a way that intuitively allowed the player to make an emotional connection with the characters on-screen in an interactive, visual way instead of just reading words. like a video game.
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Nov 3, 2021 01:59
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*confusedly looking at a dog wagging his tail and jumping up and down at me* so ill-conceived and silly for the thought that the foolish designer of this non-human would be able to communicate anything with its exaggerated face and body with me...heh...wouldn't it be better to get a translator here instead...SIGH
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Nov 3, 2021 02:05
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It's me, I'm the guy who legitimately couldn't read some of the Strangers' facial expressions in the slides. There was one where they looked through a telescope and were horrified, but given how exaggerated it was and the weird texture of their skin I thought that whatever they saw in the telescope melted their faces off. There were also a few scenes that used literal objects to describe abstract concepts (like the skull getting overgrown with grass) that left me incredibly confused because I couldn't understand why they were showing me that particular image in this context. I only really figured it out by looking at the ship's log afterwards. I like the slides as a concept, and for the most part the execution is great (especially how it hooks into the music) but I would have much preferred some other way of communicating story details.
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Nov 3, 2021 02:24
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beep by grandpa posted:*confusedly looking at a dog wagging his tail and jumping up and down at me* so ill-conceived and silly for the thought that the foolish designer of this non-human would be able to communicate anything with its exaggerated face and body with me...heh...wouldn't it be better to get a translator here instead...SIGH I’m not sure if dogs are a great example, as they’ve evolved post-domestication to better express their emotions to humans. They’ve evolved eyebrows and more facial muscles to evoke emotions that humans can understand. Also, because domesticated dogs are common, we have a collective knowledge about their behaviours. A dog wagging its tail and jumping at you is something we have collectively learnt to be a good sign specific to that animal; a rattlesnake wagging its tail and jumping at you is something to be avoided. But yeah, if you had to first lean how the aliens expressed emotion, it would be busy work that would impede your understanding of their relationship with the Eye that would not have a significant payoff. Ubik_Lives fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 04:16
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Why are all alien species in Outer Wilds ashamed of their bodies/genitalia, huh?? I'm supposed to believe all of these aliens just... developed pants??
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Nov 3, 2021 04:36
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Linguica posted:I think enough time has passed since the DLC came out than I can safely say it was pretty silly to have the plot advanced through depiction of human facial emotions projected on alien beings. Beyond the first order absurdity of a completely alien creature evolving the same bilateral facial features and muscles capable of similar expressions, you then had the second-order, in-universe conceit that a four eyed Hearthian itself has similar humanoid emotions and facial responses, and also can see and understand the emotions of another alien species that happens to have similar emotions. And then there's the, uh, zero-th order factor of whether or not a portion of the intended audience can necessarily tell what the depicted expressions are meant to convey anyway, so they have to be as exaggerated as possible. I get why they didn't want to have your translator suddenly able to read a canonically foreign language, but... what they came up with didn't really make things any better in the end. Huh. I guess that is pretty silly.
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Nov 3, 2021 04:41
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I feel like you don't need to -really- parse facial emotions in order to put things together. I think some degree of confusion and uncertainty is intended - such as the dark eyes, I want to say the music even almost goes slightly creepy when you're on that slide, but the body language/actions and following slides/slide reels make it clear the Eye was an exciting discovery. The Strangers being presented in a totally different matter then the Nomai is what kind of gives the DLC a lot of it's atmosphere. Like, the fact that all we can take from the Strangers is pictures in which we can kind of approximate emotions from, makes it so easy to get the wrong read and find them scarier or more foreign then a bunch of aliens whom we can read the journals of.
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Nov 3, 2021 05:41
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nothing in the OP, but is the DLC better played from a old save file prior to the end or should I start a fresh gameplay?
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Nov 3, 2021 06:24
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drkhrs2020 posted:nothing in the OP, but is the DLC better played from a old save file prior to the end or should I start a fresh gameplay? Either-or. Just make sure you beat the main game (again?) after you beat the DLC.
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Nov 3, 2021 06:27
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drkhrs2020 posted:nothing in the OP, but is the DLC better played from a old save file prior to the end or should I start a fresh gameplay? its better with an old save file (but yeah finish the game again after you beat the DLC)
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Nov 3, 2021 06:30
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drkhrs2020 posted:nothing in the OP, but is the DLC better played from a old save file prior to the end or should I start a fresh gameplay? An old near-complete save file is better. A filled-out rumour map has a (small) impact on the end of the DLC. More importantly, completing the DLC has an impact on the end of the main story, and an old save file makes it easier to just do that once the DLC's done. That said, these are just convenience things; you can have 97% the same experience with the DLC on a fresh save.
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Nov 3, 2021 06:31
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blastron posted:Either-or. Just make sure you beat the main game (again?) after you beat the DLC. There's a bit in the DLC that changes depending on how much of the main game you've discovered and I argue it's more satisfying with all that knowledge unveiled already.
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Nov 3, 2021 06:34
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You’re right, forgot about that part.
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Nov 3, 2021 07:26
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Am I going to miss anything in Echoes of the Eye if I've already finished the game and have 98% finished pinboard? Do i need to go hunting for notes entries?
fez_machine fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 09:47
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Nth Doctor posted:There's a bit in the DLC that changes depending on how much of the main game you've discovered and I argue it's more satisfying with all that knowledge unveiled already. Does this mean the green light? Aka the hearthian or fifth piece of the story
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Nov 3, 2021 10:37
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fez_machine posted:Am I going to miss anything in Echoes of the Eye if I've already finished the game and have 98% finished pinboard? Do i need to go hunting for notes entries? You're fine. Almost everything that can augment the expansion in any way is just major knowledge, not minor stuff.
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Nov 3, 2021 10:50
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Bedshaped posted:Does this mean the green light? Aka the hearthian or fifth piece of the story Yeah, that's the change. If you play the DLC without having solved the rest of the game, you get a very barebones version of that story. Not bad, just less detailed.
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Nov 3, 2021 10:57
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Superrodan posted:You're fine. Almost everything that can augment the expansion in any way is just major knowledge, not minor stuff. Anyway, I did the necessary with a guide to visit places I'd rushed first time around and then forgot how to get back to and have 100% rumours. Now I can do the DLC.
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Nov 3, 2021 12:03
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