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TulliusCicero posted:People got to stop saying this poo poo. COVID is not ebbing: Republican and FYGM dipshittery, along with anti-vaxxer nonsense is going to keep this poo poo going. Numbers keep going up in many states. They actively spread it because it hurts Biden, because they are death cultists. This is pretty much it. Trump didn't get to last long enough to push the vaccines, so vaccines are now a Democrat/Lib thing. And even Democrats are getting sick of precautions and want to just reopen everything and if you aren't willing or able to get a shot, "screw you, having the kids in my home instead of at school is driving us to the brink." VitalSigns posted:Even Hillary won Virginia, he did even worse than her lol. To be fair, Hillary didn't perform as well as expected in Virginia either. She had Kaine, who is (or at least was at the time) liked in the state, and it was still kind of a squeaker.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:02
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I wouldn't bother comparing presidential election cycles to mid-term or off-cycle subnational elections, each tends to attract a very different kind of median voter. It may be fair to extrapolate to 2022 from the way issues played out in this race, though.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:07
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Nix Panicus posted:Off topic, but DEI stuff like White Fragility always overlooks (or at least overlooks as presented by the DEI consultant getting $10k for the seminar) the intersectional nature of privilege and oppression and makes the white people with personal trauma or neurodiversity extremely uncomfortable to the point of making their lives hell, because many have been told their entire life that they're faking their emotions or don't have the right to their own trauma and experiences and the DEI grift heavily leans into that. What could a middle class white girl know of trauma? Probably a poo poo ton if they've been abused their entire childhood, but they'll never mention it because they'd be called a faker just exaggerating to steal the spotlight, especially in a DEI setting. Those sessions come off as the incredibly ignorant of the diversity of experiences This is a great post, but isn’t that what intersectionalism actually is - a ranking of privilege and oppression based on gender and race? As you alluded to, it’s a belief system so dogmatic that questioning or bucking the trend gets you slapped with an oppressor label. And that cover gives the ordained the ability to make more and more ridiculous statements - the nuclear family is a racist tool of oppression, the scientific method is racist, etc. And it’s not just a boogeyman that only exists in the woke twitter: NYC is phasing out the gifted and talented program, the Virginia DEA’s own website recommends CRT reading as a ‘best practice’ for teachers. People see it creeping into their lives, and they clearly see that it’s all bullshit, and the actual goal is to get and keep power - Northam and Fairfax being perfect examples of this. The working class loves the economic message the Democrats are delivering, and are indifferent or hostile to the more extreme social aspects. Dems won Georgia because they stressed the former and distanced themselves from the latter, they got clocked in VA because they failed to deliver and failed to distance.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:07
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:I know that the hyperventilating lie that everyone who disagrees with you is a racist sexist somethingsomething is the modus operandi for 2021 Political Internet, but it's pretty funny how blatantly you pulled this one out of your rear end. Also, I myself am queer, which makes this extra stupid. You'll have to forgive me if I assumed the person talking about "woke poo poo" was actually talking about what is classified as "woke poo poo" by the group who uses that term, which includes LGBTQ issues. If you have a problem with people assuming you are against that stuff because you use a phrase that chuds use to show that they hate gay and trans people (as well as women and minorities), then maybe you should stop using that phrase.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:11
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Not a shitpost, but when is the last time the Democrats really owned and drove the conversation on an issue? I don't think this party is able to do that, part of it is down to the advantage given to the GOP by the right wing media machine, but I honestly can't remember when Dem messaging on a topic wasn't just a reaction to GOP talking points. (I'm sure its happened I just don't recall) Nationwide? Not sure. Locally it happens all the time.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:12
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Yeah sorry, I was specifically thinking nationally.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:13
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Twelve by Pies posted:You'll have to forgive me if I assumed the person talking about "woke poo poo" was actually talking about what is classified as "woke poo poo" by the group who uses that term, which includes LGBTQ issues. If you have a problem with people assuming you are against that stuff because you use a phrase that chuds use to show that they hate gay and trans people (as well as women and minorities), then maybe you should stop using that phrase. My identity is sacrosanct and the Democrats should protect me regardless of popularity, other people's identities are 'woke poo poo' and should be thrown to the wolves so the Tagg Romneys of the world will like us. Republicans are really excellent at convincing Democrats to shed more and more of their coalition, just a little more and all the affluent Bush voters will come flooding in behind Bill Kristol!
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Nov 3, 2021 15:20
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I don't the issue is Democrats lose because they pushed "woke" but because Republicans defined what "woke" means to the public, and then successfully tied Democrats to it.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:48
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OctaMurk posted:I don't the issue is Democrats lose because they pushed "woke" but because Republicans defined what "woke" means to the public, and then successfully tied Democrats to it. I think this is pretty key. This is the same dynamic affecting BLM and "defund the police" and immigration and the Dems apparently have no competence in fighting this phenomenon.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:51
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OctaMurk posted:I don't the issue is Democrats lose because they pushed "woke" but because Republicans defined what "woke" means to the public, and then successfully tied Democrats to it. This happened because the Democrats completely ceded ground on this to the Republicans.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:52
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OctaMurk posted:I don't the issue is Democrats lose because they pushed "woke" but because Republicans defined what "woke" means to the public, and then successfully tied Democrats to it. I don't think it's even that, I think Republicans ran on an issue that at least some people cared about (even if that caring was manufactured by a right-wing astroturf operation), meanwhile the Democrat ran on  "Hey remember Trump, what a maroon, vote on a ballot he's not even on to show him what a maroon you think he is!"
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Nov 3, 2021 16:05
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Eric Cantonese posted:I think this is pretty key. This is the same dynamic affecting BLM and "defund the police" and immigration and the Dems apparently have no competence in fighting this phenomenon. That's because that's all Third Way Dems do: tacitly agree with Republicans and push status quo, while saying some platitudes to poo poo a corporate grifter made up The Dem messaging is done almost done entirely by a marketing team made up of consultants that is massively incompetent and been politically irrelavant since 2008. All they know how to do is cede ground TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 16:06
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Phil Murphy wins! No blowout in New Jersey! https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1455903514748760075?s=20 https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1455905952234983426?s=20
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Nov 3, 2021 16:12
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TheDisreputableDog posted:The working class loves the economic message the Democrats are delivering, and are indifferent or hostile to the more extreme social aspects. Dems won Georgia because they stressed the former and distanced themselves from the latter, they got clocked in VA because they failed to deliver and failed to distance. The only reason this is the case is because the Democrats don't want to run on the economic issues. They are a neoliberal, techonocratic, centrist party, and fundamentally do not agree with the popular economic messages that leftists proffer. This leads them to try to adopt the language/stance of popular ideals in the most shallow way possible, leading to the "identity politics" or "woke" rhetoric against them. Neither of those terms is particularly useful or well defined, but the bottom line is that while dems are totally happy to offer social concessions (gay marriage, abortion rights), they're against the holistic approach of leftism (agency for women, non-cis/straight people, etc) that would necessarily include economic liberation in addition to social liberation. In fact, many of the social issues the democrats champion oftentimes are because they are made to run counter to leftist arguments. Abortion is an easy example here - democrats support abortion rights in large part because it allows women to stay in the workforce. When you look at many issues any deeper than that, it's immediately clear where the edge of their support lies. This is directly applicable to Virginia in that Macullife in many ways couldn't counter the arguments that Youngkin was making. How do you argue against parents being involved in their child's education (which they are absolutely unqualified to be) when you support private schooling and sent 4 of your 5 kids to private schools? How do you try to claim that you're the candidate "for the people" over Youngkin when you share the same ties to large financial institutions, and more importantly to VA, to Dominion Power? How can you say that you aren't against fair elections or whatever when the statehouse rejected using newer, less gerrymandered map for the election? All you're left with are vague threats about your opponent ("He'll make abortion access harder!"), which they can just say "nuh uh" to. That in my mind is why they campaigned against Trump more than Youngkin, because on a pretty basic level, there actually was very little difference between them on issues that Macullife and state dems actually cared about.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:15
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Skyl3lazer posted:This is directly applicable to Virginia in that Macullife in many ways couldn't counter the arguments that Youngkin was making. How do you argue against parents being involved in their child's education (which they are absolutely unqualified to be) when you support private schooling and sent 4 of your 5 kids to private schools? How do you try to claim that you're the candidate "for the people" over Youngkin when you share the same ties to large financial institutions, and more importantly to VA, to Dominion Power? How can you say that you aren't against fair elections or whatever when the statehouse rejected using newer, less gerrymandered map for the election? All you're left with are vague threats about your opponent ("He'll make abortion access harder!"), which they can just say "nuh uh" to. That in my mind is why they campaigned against Trump more than Youngkin, because on a pretty basic level, there actually was very little difference between them on issues that Macullife and state dems actually cared about. Not to mention Macullife's direct financial involvement in The Carlyle Group. The Democratic party is essentially an HR apparatus for industries that need to operate within cities.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:24
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Grouchio posted:Phil Murphy wins! No blowout in New Jersey! South Jersey might as well be the deep south. It's weird, because labor unions are big there, but have no connection to anything leftward.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:29
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Red posted:South Jersey might as well be the deep south. It's weird, because labor unions are big there, but have no connection to anything leftward. What kind of unions? I imagine you'd encounter a lot of hostility to certain progressive policies depending on the industry sector.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:30
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VitalSigns posted:Republicans are really excellent at convincing Democrats to shed more and more of their coalition, just a little more and all the affluent Bush voters will come flooding in behind Bill Kristol! Ah yeah, isn't that basically the uh, I think it's called Strasserism/NazBol stuff? I usually hear it referenced in discussions about how we could totally get the right wing to vote in leftist policies, like we could have Medicare For All if we just promised them it would be whites only. It's a fool's game because the right wouldn't fall for that anyway (at least not without major shifts to demographics in the country), and even if they did it ignores that it wouldn't be worth it because, you know, minorities exist. Hell it reminds me of the days back before same sex marriage was more popular when the idea was that "The Dems can't possibly support gay marriage because they'd lose the black vote" and how the passage of Proposition 8 was blamed on high black turnout due to Obama. It wasn't true, but the Republicans really hoped that pushing that idea would fracture the Dems.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:59
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Eric Cantonese posted:What kind of unions? I imagine you'd encounter a lot of hostility to certain progressive policies depending on the industry sector. All kinds of skilled labor (IBEW, etc.), blue-collar.
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Nov 3, 2021 17:00
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Red posted:South Jersey might as well be the deep south. It's weird, because labor unions are big there, but have no connection to anything leftward. It's because the democrats have held power there for years and yet their quality of life has declined over that time
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Nov 3, 2021 17:04
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Skyl3lazer posted:I mean the problem here is that for the most part, dems haven't made people's lives better over the past decade. Yeah, that was sort of what I was getting at - step 1, make people's lives materially better, step 2, brag about it a whole bunch, etc etc. I've seen some folks here claim that the VA Dems DID make people's lives better in their state, but I've seen others dispute that. Either way, it doesn't look like they ran on those things.
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Nov 3, 2021 17:32
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Wait a minute! Is that Ciattarelli's music!?!? https://twitter.com/SteveKornacki/status/1455933089629233154?s=19
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Nov 3, 2021 17:33
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Judakel posted:Wait a minute! Is that Ciattarelli's music!?!? Nah, Murphy is still going to win easily. (Essentially tied at 88% reported with mostly mail-in votes to go.) Embarrassing blunder, though.
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Nov 3, 2021 17:45
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Mellow Seas posted:Nah, Murphy is still going to win easily. (Essentially tied at 88% reported with mostly mail-in votes to go.) Embarrassing blunder, though. https://twitter.com/SteveKornacki/status/1455941817673953288
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Nov 3, 2021 18:07
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Judakel posted:Wait a minute! Is that Ciattarelli's music!?!? This would be really funny to see happen, but it's hellworld so. . .
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Nov 3, 2021 18:12
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Skyl3lazer posted:It's because the democrats have held power there for years and yet their quality of life has declined over that time That's part of it. It's still 1975 there. There's been little investment in anything, because most people go from Philadelphia northward; so why bother, right? I've seen this a lot - a diverse, wealthy area has a nearby time capsule of a blue-collar community that hasn't grown, for whatever reason - Baltimore has Dundalk in the east, for example. Those places are stuck because they don't benefit from infrastructure improvements, and tend to revolve around a blue-collar profession that just gets handed down through the family, so no one ever leaves (coal mining, trucking, plumbing, etc.). The community has a water tower, oil tanks, factories, or some other industrial eyesore. The default community place is church, and every store that sells beer only sells Coors Light or Bud or whatever. Politically, it's one giant echo chamber: reliably hard red. Why? I wish I knew - but it's probably a combination of church, "my guns!", and 'my daddy voted Republican because he was a patriot, and I am too', even if it's voting against your self interests. The culture war stuff matters there, because that's all there is. No help is ever coming - but few progressives campaign in those areas. It's almost like Cuba in some places, where people keep fixing up the 30-year old pickup truck. They never improve on the 60-year old house with rusty fence they inherited, college isn't an option, and there's no long term financial planning, because health outcomes are so poor (due to poor diet, lack of exercise, and having a career that takes a physical toll). Those folks are not going to die out, because big families are important. But they believe in the con, or, they're happy to spite the people who get what they don't.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:55
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TheDisreputableDog posted:This is a great post, but isn’t that what intersectionalism actually is - a ranking of privilege and oppression based on gender and race? As you alluded to, it’s a belief system so dogmatic that questioning or bucking the trend gets you slapped with an oppressor label. And that cover gives the ordained the ability to make more and more ridiculous statements - the nuclear family is a racist tool of oppression, the scientific method is racist, etc. And it’s not just a boogeyman that only exists in the woke twitter: NYC is phasing out the gifted and talented program, the Virginia DEA’s own website recommends CRT reading as a ‘best practice’ for teachers. People see it creeping into their lives, and they clearly see that it’s all bullshit, and the actual goal is to get and keep power - Northam and Fairfax being perfect examples of this. No, that isn't what intersectionality is. Intersectionalist lens simply makes the "common sense" argument that a the difference identity intersections face issues that are greater than the sum of their parts. It's not some "oppression Olympics" bullshit. Christ am I on /r/tumblrinaction in 2014? It's a simple, sensible assertion: a black woman faces not only female stereotypes and black stereotypes, but stereotypes unique to black women, and if a black woman is gay, she faces yet more unique stereotypes and challenges. I don't agree with the race essentialist bullshit that some academics navel gazed themselves into, but that doesn't make the simple elements of their analysis invalid.
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Nov 3, 2021 20:04
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TheDisreputableDog posted:This is a great post, but isn’t that what intersectionalism actually is - a ranking of privilege and oppression based on gender and race? As you alluded to, it’s a belief system so dogmatic that questioning or bucking the trend gets you slapped with an oppressor label. And that cover gives the ordained the ability to make more and more ridiculous statements - the nuclear family is a racist tool of oppression, the scientific method is racist, etc. And it’s not just a boogeyman that only exists in the woke twitter: NYC is phasing out the gifted and talented program, the Virginia DEA’s own website recommends CRT reading as a ‘best practice’ for teachers. People see it creeping into their lives, and they clearly see that it’s all bullshit, and the actual goal is to get and keep power - Northam and Fairfax being perfect examples of this. Source your quotes
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Nov 3, 2021 20:24
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Eric Cantonese posted:What kind of unions? I imagine you'd encounter a lot of hostility to certain progressive policies depending on the industry sector. The local machinist union here is protesting vaccine mandates at Spirit Aerosystems so yeah. Just because they're unions doesn't mean they're onboard with the progressive zeitgeist
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Nov 3, 2021 20:28
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rscott posted:The local machinist union here is protesting vaccine mandates at Spirit Aerosystems so yeah. Just because they're unions doesn't mean they're onboard with the progressive zeitgeist I am still floored that "get vaxxed" is "progressive zeitgeist"
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Nov 3, 2021 20:30
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https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/nyregion/republican-election-results-new-york.html The Times had a report on the setbacks Democrats had last night in New York. It sounds like the GOP was really able to ride the anger at bail reform to some big successes. I'm still amazed that the Democrats have not been able to form any repsonse to that. The GOP basically worked with police departments all over the state with a standard cut & paste social media update (that individuals spread around as well) playing up how 3rd+-degree sex offenders wouldn't have to pay bail anymore (which of course ignores the fact that getting arrested and being actually guilty are two different things) and I think it really worked. I still don't get why the voter access ballot initiatives failed either. Lack of urgency and thinking they spoke for themselves without a PR campaign to back it up? I know this all sounds super melodramatic, but I look at how this world is going and often think of Yeats saying "The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity."
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Nov 3, 2021 20:34
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Eric Cantonese posted:https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/nyregion/republican-election-results-new-york.html There's a temptation that dems and leftists often fall into where we dismiss obvious bullshit with "Get that Fox News garbage out of here" And it is in fact bullshit made by Fox News, but the point is to make it look like you aren't addressing a problem, so you have to answer back with something or voters think you're just being "partisan"
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Nov 3, 2021 20:40
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Eric Cantonese posted:I know this all sounds super melodramatic, but I look at how this world is going and often think of Yeats saying "The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity." People driven by fear, hatred, and bitterness are always more passionate than people trying to make things better. Fascism doesn't work because it's smart, it works because it triggers things deep seated in humans.
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Nov 3, 2021 20:51
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Jaxyon posted:People driven by fear, hatred, and bitterness are always more passionate than people trying to make things better. I would argue that fascists are trying to make things better, it's just that they have a very different definition of "better" (and probably also "things")
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Nov 3, 2021 21:13
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camoseven posted:I would argue that fascists are trying to make things better, it's just that they have a very different definition of "better" (and probably also "things") That fascists think they're right doesn't really change what I said. People always think they're right. That evil people think/know they're evil is the realm of fiction, not reality.
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Nov 3, 2021 21:24
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Whew! I was worried for a moment! https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1455968647286034439?s=20
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Nov 3, 2021 21:32
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Uncle Wemus posted:Whew! I was worried for a moment! Lmao
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Nov 3, 2021 21:39
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I'm a little tempted to give Hoyer the benefit of the doubt (although maybe he doesn't deserve it). I'd rather they at least keep course instead of turning into even bigger cowards and cutting the reconciliation bill altogether out of panic.
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Nov 3, 2021 21:41
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Uncle Wemus posted:Whew! I was worried for a moment! The Virginia Model works in mysterious ways
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Nov 3, 2021 21:47
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Uncle Wemus posted:Whew! I was worried for a moment! "Stay the course" "But sir we hit the Iceberg and we are taking on water!" "Stay.the. Course" loving lmao I am so done with politics, the Democrats are a waste and a joke Gee sure would be interesting if the supposedly progressive party commented or reached out to all the people participating in strikes/ the Great Resignation right now Might mobilize votes? The Thinkery 
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Nov 3, 2021 21:59
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