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TulliusCicero posted:He's He would be running against a mirror image of himself, excluding the last 2 points; which will go nowhere. If he doesn't run, it will be because he is simply not interested in doing so. CommieGIR posted:I thought tides were already turning against DeSantis? DeSantis is super boring as a speaker.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:28
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The rule of law is part of the social contract in the US that is sold and bought into. Those who live with privilege or have not experienced how unjust and inequitable the system(s) can be, buy it. Plus everyone has to live with it, whether they believe it or not. It loses legitimacy when there is little-to-no redress for marginalized or, hell, just working class, individuals. When the rules are rewritten again and again to favor the wealthy, corporations and cops yet more. When the system that is supposed to represent and govern fails and the people controlling it are so out of touch they think and mindfucked that they this a good thing as poo poo burns around them.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:30
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HonorableTB posted:read the thread before kramering in with a hot take that biden could just legalize weed with an executive order when the last 2 pages have been about why he can't do that because laws are a thing Why did Biden appeal the original ruling against using Title 42 to deport asylum seekers? Was it because they were sure the judge was making a mistake and the sanctity of the law required them to ask a different judge to rule differently?
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Nov 3, 2021 22:33
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Voters think the president personally sets the price of gas. It really doesn't matter what he can/can't do legally when it comes to winning elections.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:38
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Gumball Gumption posted:Voters think the president personally sets the price of gas. It really doesn't matter what he can/can't do legally when it comes to winning elections. Who are you responding to?
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Nov 3, 2021 22:49
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I think what a lot of people are dancing around without saying is that even if Biden can't pen-waggle us to a shroom-laden wonderland free of debt, he can, as the literal president of the United States, take the stage and say, "hey, I think we've locked up too many people for too long when they weren't hurting anyone and that's wrong and we should stop." The power of leadership isn't simply in doing things. Even just repeating things is seriously loving powerful. Look at how people talk about CRT and trans people because people in positions of power and influence said a bunch of poo poo about them. He has all kinds of power that doesn't require any legislative or executive action, and he doesn't use it. He doesn't use it because he doesn't want to. Ergo, he wants students to pay debt forever and for people to be locked up in prison for minor offenses forever. Or, charitably, he doesn't care about those things.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:50
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I think those arguing Biden can not do XYZ because of fear or expectation judges will strike down EOs are arguing in bad faith. If anything, judges striking down EOs would actually be a benefit when Trump sweeps in 2024. Honestly we either get good EOs or on the books rulings that limit the presidents power. It is a win win situation.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:51
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I think those arguing Biden can not do XYZ because of fear or expectation judges will strike down EOs are arguing in bad faith. If anything, judges striking down EOs would actually be a benefit when Trump sweeps in 2024. Honestly we either get good EOs are on the books rulings that limit the presidents power. Heck if nothing else the narrative changes from "Biden is doing nothing" to "Biden tried to do things but the Trump judges struck him down!". Doesn't seem like there's a downside to that messaging!
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Nov 3, 2021 22:52
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Gumball Gumption posted:Voters think the president personally sets the price of gas. It really doesn't matter what he can/can't do legally when it comes to winning elections. Even if it's not legalization, there are things that the president can do to help, which is the spirit of what people here are talking about. As for selling how it's good to the american people, either those that don't care or look on it as a bad thing- that's part of the job. Maybe give them other things or instill hope for something down the line. A party or individual constantly triangulating to win the next election, which they often fail at anyway, is a piss-poor method of governing
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Nov 3, 2021 22:53
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Verus posted:What prevents Biden from pardoning all victims of the war on drugs, today? TheIncredulousHulk posted:Why did Biden appeal the original ruling against using Title 42 to deport asylum seekers? Was it because they were sure the judge was making a mistake and the sanctity of the law required them to ask a different judge to rule differently? Neither of these are legalizing weed. Which is what we've been talking about. Cranappleberry posted:Even if it's not legalization, there are things that the president can do to help, which is the spirit of what people here are talking about. Not the spirit of what we're talking about, the literal letter of what we're talking about. These goalposts are gonna create sonic booms if they move any faster
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Nov 3, 2021 22:54
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Srice posted:Heck if nothing else the narrative changes from "Biden is doing nothing" to "Biden tried to do things but the Trump judges struck him down!". Doesn't seem like there's a downside to that messaging! Doing things is authoritarianism and/or communism.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:56
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I think those arguing Biden can not do XYZ because of fear or expectation judges will strike down EOs are arguing in bad faith. If anything, judges striking down EOs would actually be a benefit when Trump sweeps in 2024. Honestly we either get good EOs or on the books rulings that limit the presidents power. This just seems like you're saying they're uh, wrong. Arguing in bad faith would be like if they legitimately did not want student debt to be forgiven and were hiding behind rules, or were just posting to piss off people who want student debt forgiven, or something like that.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:59
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HonorableTB posted:Neither of these are legalizing weed. Which is what we've been talking about. It's not moving goalposts it's that I recognized the intent behind their words. They're being earnest. Explaining that legalization cannot he done by the president is fine but it doesn't address the issue that Biden could be doing more good things with his power, which is part of their legitimate frustration. He could also push legal boundaries or even pull some lbj poo poo, even if that won't actually happen. But for the sake of argument, then how about just what I am talking about?
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Nov 3, 2021 23:03
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Srice posted:Heck if nothing else the narrative changes from "Biden is doing nothing" to "Biden tried to do things but the Trump judges struck him down!". Doesn't seem like there's a downside to that messaging! Exactly. I can not see a logical reason to argue against doing this other than: Flying-PCP posted:This just seems like you're saying they're uh, wrong. Arguing in bad faith would be like if they legitimately did not want student debt to be forgiven and were hiding behind rules, or were just posting to piss off people who want student debt forgiven, or something like that. That is how I take those comments, yes. There is no reason for the president to try a barrage of popular EOs to get the job done. There are only benefits. To argue otherwise while claiming to be progressive just does not logically make sense. People are suffering and need the president to support them. Those suggesting the president give up due to potentially making judges mad sounds like they come from a place of privilege. vvvv can’t it be both bad faith and wrong? virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 23:06
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Exactly. I can not see a logical reason to argue against doing this other than: That's fine but coming from a place of privilege and/or being unproductively stuck in rules lawyer mode is not the same as arguing in bad faith. Failing to follow the same logical train of thought as you, is not the same as arguing in bad faith. Why are these buzzwords necessary when people simply have wrong opinions.
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Nov 3, 2021 23:13
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Willo567 posted:If Trump got reelected in 2024, could America actually survive another term with him after he tried to do an insurrection? He's too mentally unhinged and his fanbase is full of cultists I've seem this sentiment a few times and I just wanted wanted address it. The idea that America won't "survive" is part of the problem with the country. We all sort of believe we know how far is too far; that we would take up arms or execute an escape strategy in the face of a unilateral national takeover by fascists. But modern fascists don't really do that. They're not going to put stormtroopers in the hallways of the capital and send out thought police to target leftists overnight. It will be a slow consolidation, that we are currently inside of, that uses and subverts legitimate systems until Americans are too cynical to demand change. We've seen similar models in Russia and South America. It's happening right now. The fascists are never going to overplay their hand. 1/6 was an anomaly, a peek into the cruelty and anger of the right, not a preview of an armed insurrectionist movement. The right will grow more cruel certainly but they won't have to attack the white house or install secret police to do what they want.
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Nov 3, 2021 23:18
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HonorableTB posted:Neither of these are legalizing weed. Which is what we've been talking about. Yeah dude, my post was in relation to that, as an example of how the administration looks when it's actually trying to do something legally dubious that it wants to do
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Nov 3, 2021 23:26
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re the federal stuff about 'why don't they pardon people with weed convictions' and the answer is that they largely have. there have been drat few federal prosecutions of non-organized crime level weed cases for at least a decade now and there have been several waves already of identifying people in federal custody for non-violent weed-related offenses for early release. Presumably some still exist, but by and large the huge, massive carceral problem wrt non-violent drug crimes is state level. tldr: federal prisoners locked up for drugs (both violent/non-violent) account for 2% of american prisoners eviltastic posted:This isn't in response to any particular person, and isn't directly relevant to the rescheduling talk, but is kind of interesting context: in terms of bureaucrats doing things the slow way, the news made the rounds a few weeks ago that DEA is looking to significantly increase the legal production of weed and a bunch of other schedule 1-2 drugs for research due to increasing medical interest. 500 grams of lsd is an astronomical amount of lsd. like 5,000,000 doses 
Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 23:28
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Baronash posted:My teacher friends had coworkers who are dead and buried because of in person schooling, but yeah, it's a real loving bummer your kid is a bit slow at times tables. Nah. My kid has a learning difference and got angry and violent because of the way the whole thing panned out. He is perfectly fine academically. But that’s not all school is, social/emotional development is more important particularly for k-5. Socialization at that age is a need not a want. And that society was stupid and opened er up is a non sequitur to what I’m asserting. Yep red states were stupid and directly harmed students and staff. My sister is a teacher in Florida. Believe I know the poo poo that is happening in red areas. None of that had to happen. It was all avoidable. Single schools in FL had case numbers in the first week higher than King County had cumulative last year. Your dead friends were avoidable. All of it was unnecessary and all of it was stupid. Edit: and framing parents as the enemy is Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 23:36
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Joe Biden during the campaign was asked about marijuana and he said it should stay illegal because it's a gateway drug. He also said he doesn't care about student loan debt, he'd veto medicare 4 all, and told rich donors that nothing would fundamentally change. He could do lots of things to reverse his fortunes but he's against those things. when a candidate tells you what they stand for, listen to them.
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Nov 3, 2021 23:37
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skylined! posted:Some good things that happened yesterday for the people that really need a talk from the edge: This is wonderful! It's a heck of a thing to throw your hat into the ring, and I'm glad that they found success on such a tumultuous night.
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Nov 3, 2021 23:41
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"Biden should legalize weed" "He can't, here's some rules about why" "OK, well he should try to do what he can anyways." "Oh my god if these goal posts move any faster it's going to create a causality paradox you're literally threatening the universe rn" Pamela Springstein posted:Joe Biden during the campaign was asked about marijuana and he said it should stay illegal because it's a gateway drug. He also said he doesn't care about student loan debt, he'd veto medicare 4 all, and told rich donors that nothing would fundamentally change. Yeah this discussion is all in vain because regardless of what Biden can do he simply doesn't want to do the good things. I know a lot of people rag on Bernie now for "giving in" to the right of the Party, but if he were President I bet he'd at least try the good things. Hellblazer187 fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 23:44
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Pamela Springstein posted:Joe Biden during the campaign was asked about marijuana and he said it should stay illegal because it's a gateway drug. He also said he doesn't care about student loan debt, he'd veto medicare 4 all, and told rich donors that nothing would fundamentally change. He was to the right of party consensus on every issue
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Nov 3, 2021 23:44
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Dammerung posted:This is wonderful! It's a heck of a thing to throw your hat into the ring, and I'm glad that they found success on such a tumultuous night. Agreed. Appreciate and acknowledge the victories that did happen.
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Nov 3, 2021 23:45
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Delthalaz posted:Is that true? The big decline in approval over time I see coincides with the best thing he's done as president: pull out from Afghanistan That was only really unpopular with the media and warhawks. Though the dip probably coincides with the media no longer covering for him in retaliation(for the crime of having slightly less war), so it's still a significant turning point. TulliusCicero posted:...I can't believe I'm loving saying this, but I'm actually going to give Trump something resembling a compliment: 
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Nov 3, 2021 23:53
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Flying-PCP posted:This just seems like you're saying they're uh, wrong. Arguing in bad faith would be like if they legitimately did not want student debt to be forgiven and were hiding behind rules, or were just posting to piss off people who want student debt forgiven, or something like that. For example remember the discussion around the eviction moratorium? This exact same Rule Of Law argument was brought up when people asked why Biden didn't just reword the EO like Trump did when the courts slapped him and buy some more time that way. No, that's an authoritarianism, that's a fascism, that's a left-wing Trumpism etc. But then when Biden did just that nobody protested or clutched their pearls about The Rule Of Law. So it seems it was more about rationalizing Biden's inaction than a principled stance against trying to get around court rulings.
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Nov 3, 2021 23:55
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TulliusCicero posted:The loving demented motherfucker was Evil but he loving tried. He fought to get his sick gently caress agenda passed. He actually got parts of it codified, even if temporary. He was aggressive as President, and it loving worked This reads like someone who got so mad at Dems they started ingesting rightwing propaganda. Trump was the laziest president in decades. He didn't fight for very much at all. He just made noise. His handlers got him to appoint awful people, which he did because he didn't give a gently caress about anything. They aggressively tried to tear everything down because they didn't care about legal consequences because they are fascists who own the courts. The only thing notable legislation passed during his presidency by the GOP alone was tax cuts which his base loving hated and were bog standards GOP policy from before he ever ran.
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Nov 4, 2021 00:00
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I think people are mistaking 'doing something' with pissing the opposition off. Making your enemies mad can make it seem like you're doing something more than just tax cuts and grift.
Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 00:09
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HonorableTB posted:read the thread before kramering in with a hot take that biden could just legalize weed with an executive order when the last 2 pages have been about why he can't do that because laws are a thing This. The kramering needs to stop. We're trying to have a serious discussion about politics and posters keep kramering in like some of kramer. Can the mods finally do something about kramering? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 4, 2021 00:11
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Herstory Begins Now posted:500 grams of lsd is an astronomical amount of lsd. like 5,000,000 doses Wild-rear end guess: something to do with evaluating toxicology? LD50s for it are in mg/kg for mammals. But yeah it does seem a bit out of step with the other numbers. The other eyebrow-raiser is MDMA at 3200 grams, not so much because of the raw number but because the previous quota was 50g. Pamela Springstein posted:Joe Biden during the campaign was asked about marijuana and he said it should stay illegal because it's a gateway drug. Not quite, as far as I can tell - that was the stance before the campaign. During the campaign he hemmed and hawed about more research on the point being needed. Relevant to the rescheduling conversation, he also promised to have it rescheduled (presumably to schedule II) through executive action. Or at least that was an explicit plank of the party platform in 2020 which was adopted verbatim from the Biden-Sanders unity task force recommendations. quote:Substance use disorders are diseases, not crimes. Democrats believe no one should be in prison solely because they use drugs. Democrats will decriminalize marijuana use and reschedule it through executive action on the federal level. We will support legalization of medical marijuana, and believe states should be able to make their own decisions about recreational use. The Justice Department should not launch federal prosecutions of conduct that is legal at the state level. All past criminal convictions for cannabis use should be automatically expunged. And rather than involving the criminal justice system, Democrats support increased use of drug courts, harm reduction interventions, and treatment diversion programs for those struggling with substance use disorders.
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Nov 4, 2021 00:12
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VitalSigns posted:I think everyone wants those things to happen, but I still think the arguments are bad faith because they're rationalizations for why it's ok for Biden not to use the power of the office, not any real principled belief. Anyway, let's put it this way. Right now there is a team of lawyers in the White House somewhere working on getting an answer to the question of legality, and they may well find a legal path. We don't know in the present which path that will be (if there is a path). Issuing the EO after learning what path that is so that your EO follows that path makes it vastly easier to defend in court and increase the chance that loans will be forgiven. And if the lawyers come back and say "sorry, not legal", then sure Biden could try to forgive the loans but that would get challenged in court, there would be an injunction preventing the executive from acting on the EO while the case was working through the courts, and the courts would almost inevitably rule against the executive. No loans would be forgiven. The whole issue would be put effectively into stasis until SCOTUS takes up the case and makes a ruling and who knows how long that whole process could take. Ironically, if Biden wanted to look like he was forgiving debt without actually forgiving a single loan, this, as I'm writing it, sounds like a way to do that. If an EO is all but guaranteed to be overturned then pushing something through Congress, for all the trouble that will be, is more likely to actually get action than going through the courts. Epinephrine fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 00:15
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Verus posted:What prevents Biden from pardoning all victims of the war on drugs, today? The opposing political party.
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Nov 4, 2021 00:21
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Yesterday I think we were wondering why those ballot initiatives in new york tanked so hard: https://twitter.com/therealjsolo/status/1456022153581711366?t=RIoSxa8jkj1Uq7AJiQsMbw&s=19 I think this definitely explains some of the reason why, and is pretty mind boggling
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Nov 4, 2021 00:22
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:The opposing political party. The president has sole pardon power and this has been unchallenged for decades
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Nov 4, 2021 00:24
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Herstory Begins Now posted:500 grams of lsd is an astronomical amount of lsd. like 5,000,000 doses More like 50,000. Still a lot. 5 gams = 5,000,000 micrograms. A dose is about 100 micrograms.
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Nov 4, 2021 00:25
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Verus posted:What prevents Biden from pardoning all victims of the war on drugs, today? 99% of them were convicted on state crimes.
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Nov 4, 2021 00:37
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rscott posted:Yesterday I think we were wondering why those ballot initiatives in new york tanked so hard: Well.... that answers that
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Nov 4, 2021 00:39
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I think I also read that turnout was low in NYC and the bluer parts of the state as well, while it was higher in the Upstate red areas
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Nov 4, 2021 00:41
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rscott posted:Yesterday I think we were wondering why those ballot initiatives in new york tanked so hard: Absolutely loving baffling how useless these cretins are.
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Nov 4, 2021 00:42
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Pamela Springstein posted:Joe Biden during the campaign was asked about marijuana and he said it should stay illegal because it's a gateway drug. He also said he doesn't care about student loan debt, he'd veto medicare 4 all, and told rich donors that nothing would fundamentally change. Yeah this something I'll never understand about politics: people just ignoring what a politician says and making up in their head the positions that they wish he held. I get why people fall for lies, even obvious lies. When Trump said he had a secret perfect healthcare plan he'd reveal after he took office, he was obviously lying but I can at least understand the frame of mind of someone who just wants to believe it so bad. It's stupid, but at least it's something he said. I don't get the people who heard him say he'd deport every illegal and said to themselves "ah well obviously his true position is every illegal except my wife" or whatever. I guess this is just the blue version of that. Biden says marijuana may be a ‘gateway drug.' Like most of his generation, he’s not ready to legalize it. But we're just supposed to pretend we didn't hear that I guess, and believe the reason he hasn't done anything to legalize it is because he really really wants to but he respects the Rules Wizard too much
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Nov 4, 2021 00:44
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