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TulliusCicero posted:"Stay the course" IIRC if they had stayed the course, not veered off and hit the iceberg straight on the Titanic actually could have limped to shore; veering was what let the ice cut through how it did. 
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Nov 3, 2021 22:00
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Genuinely didn't know that! What shore would they have made it to? Weren't they out in the Northern Atlantic towards Greenland?
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Nov 3, 2021 22:19
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RBA Starblade posted:IIRC if they had stayed the course, not veered off and hit the iceberg straight on the Titanic actually could have limped to shore; veering was what let the ice cut through how it did. See? Accelerationism works.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:20
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camoseven posted:I would argue that fascists are trying to make things better, it's just that they have a very different definition of "better" (and probably also "things") Do you think neoliberals aren't? Like fascists, they just have stupid ideas about how to make things better, and a too-narrow conception of who deserves to have things better. Hating liberals more than fascists doesn't make you a better leftist, sorry.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:25
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Jaxyon posted:People driven by fear, hatred, and bitterness are always more passionate than people trying to make things better. Hard disagree with this. It's just that if you're passionate enough to move the needle for good reasons, the extant power structure has you imprisoned and/or shot Fascists are allowed to be passionate because fascism cuts with the grainof power instead of against it
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Nov 3, 2021 22:27
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TulliusCicero posted:Genuinely didn't know that! What shore would they have made it to? Weren't they out in the Northern Atlantic towards Greenland? I think it would've just gone home or to wherever it could dock, if it could still move, and if not it would sit and wait for aid. Turning away let it scrape down the side and gash through the compartments which prevented them from sealing; head-on would have been significant damage but wouldn't have breached so many, which is what ultimately doomed it. Obviously this isn't to say the Democrats should not reconsider because goddamn, but it's a fun fact  Uncle Wemus posted:See? Accelerationism works. lmao
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Nov 3, 2021 22:30
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RBA Starblade posted:I think it would've just gone home or to wherever it could dock, if it could still move, and if not it would sit and wait for aid. That's not staying the course though
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Nov 3, 2021 22:31
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Hard disagree with this. It's just that if you're passionate enough to move the needle for good reasons, the extant power structure has you imprisoned and/or shot Hard disagree because fascism doesn't need passion, though of course it helps. You can be a boring fascist and still be effective, passion/demagoguery just puts it into overdrive.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:31
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Mellow Seas posted:Do you think neoliberals aren't? Like fascists, they just have stupid ideas about how to make things better, and a too-narrow conception of who deserves to have things better. You have put a lot of words in my mouth and then followed it up with an insult that only makes sense if I said what you think I said
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Nov 3, 2021 22:32
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VitalSigns posted:That's not staying the course though In the context of the iceberg, it would have been safer to hit it dead-on instead of turning to evade it, which is. I was just commenting on that, I agree about the aftermath
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Nov 3, 2021 22:33
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Jaxyon posted:Hard disagree because fascism doesn't need passion, though of course it helps. I don't see how that disagrees with me? I didn't say it was a requirement for fascism, I just said it was allowed
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Nov 3, 2021 22:35
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camoseven posted:You have put a lot of words in my mouth and then followed it up with an insult that only makes sense if I said what you think I said Fair enough; sorry, withdrawn.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:41
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Mellow Seas posted:Do you think neoliberals aren't? Like fascists, they just have stupid ideas about how to make things better, and a too-narrow conception of who deserves to have things better. Laughing at liberals and their failures in Virginia and (almost) New Jersey is it’s own reward, separate from being a better leftist or whatever!
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Nov 3, 2021 22:42
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Peter Daou Zen posted:Laughing at liberals and their failures in Virginia and (almost) New Jersey is it’s own reward, separate from being a better leftist or whatever! I'm glad you got your win
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Nov 3, 2021 22:44
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:I don't see how that disagrees with me? I didn't say it was a requirement for fascism, I just said it was allowed I'm just restating my premise so if you don't disagree with that you didn't disgree with me in the first place.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:44
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RBA Starblade posted:I'm glad you got your win hey its slim pickings for all of us, gotta get what you can
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Nov 3, 2021 22:54
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No need to argue amongst ourselves; we all know whose fault this is... Hillary's.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:54
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Judakel posted:No need to argue amongst ourselves; we all know whose fault this is... 
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Nov 3, 2021 22:55
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Good christ. These elections may not be perfectly reflective of the general but this trend is really bad. At this point we almost better loving hope Trump runs in 2024. Someone else mentioned it in either this thread or the USCE but if the Republicans can maintain the enthusiasm Trump generated, without needing him to do it, thus avoiding the Dem voter backlash from his toxicity, then this country is in deep poo poo.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:56
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-Blackadder- posted:Good christ. These elections may not be perfectly reflective of the general but this trend is really bad. At this point we almost better loving hope Trump runs in 2024. Someone else mentioned it in either this thread or the USCE but if the Republicans can maintain the enthusiasm Trump generated, without needing him to do it, thus avoiding the Dem voter backlash from his toxicity, then this country is in deep poo poo. For us. A lot of people apparently love 1950's Jesusland, where the poor and minorities don't exist!
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Nov 3, 2021 23:06
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-Blackadder- posted:At this point we almost better loving hope Trump runs in 2024.
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Nov 3, 2021 23:08
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Red posted:For us. We'll all be driving Mustangs and listening to white blues rock blasting on the radio! 
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Nov 3, 2021 23:15
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That's what I mean about fear. Scared white people vote conservative and this is a continued backlash.
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Nov 3, 2021 23:19
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They don't entirely want Trump, but the spooky spectre of Communism haunts them from the left and they will inevitably drift back and forth.
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Nov 3, 2021 23:35
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Trumps both a symptom of a problem and also a singularly awful expression of it.
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Nov 3, 2021 23:52
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Peter Daou Zen posted:Laughing at liberals and their failures in Virginia and (almost) New Jersey is it’s own reward, separate from being a better leftist or whatever! You seem to resent everything in life. Are you happy for your facist family today? RBA Starblade posted:IIRC if they had stayed the course, not veered off and hit the iceberg straight on the Titanic actually could have limped to shore; veering was what let the ice cut through how it did. So this is long been debated, but in reality, hitting the ice berg head-on would probably not have saved the ship. The portion of the iceberg below the surface, likely would have opened up the bottom of the boat, far beyond its forward collision protection system, and possibly have expedited the inrush of water beyond the forward compartments. Also, a big part of the reason we now know for why the iceberg did the damage it did, was because the cold Atlantic waters had made the (low grade) iron plates somewhat brittle, so that the energy of the collision resulted in plates buckling and deforming all along the impacted edge, which forced rivets open, etc., and exacerbated the opening up of the ship's hull. So a head-on collision, while possibly temporarily grounding the ship on the iceberg, would have likely seen significant hull failures all along the length due to the rapid change of momentum, and water in the rear compartments would have probably cause the ship to become heavy on the stern side and made it sink anyway. Canned Sunshine fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 00:20
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Harold Fjord posted:They don't entirely want Trump, but the spooky spectre of Communism haunts them from the left and they will inevitably drift back and forth. The everpresent issue is that the majority aging electorate just want to go back to normalcy before Trump and COVID. They want barbecues with their embarassed Republican friends, they want their grandchildren and children who refused to talk to them for 4 years to visit them again, they want to do whatever they want and sail their boat. They think Trump is the aberration. With him gone, they can go back to punching that ticket for their Republican golf buddy without fear. Politics are something they politely argue with friends over, like sports, because they feel it doesn't affect them. The US is a very wierd place historically where one of the biggest divides socially is generational. Boomers and Gen X want status quo and normalcy with a tinge of the ole American fascism, Millenials and Zoomers are their eternal serfs Singing the Song of Angry Men. And we don't have the voting bloc numbers on our side for turnout despite being the bigger bloc as a whole, soooo here we are
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Nov 4, 2021 00:36
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-Blackadder- posted:Good christ. These elections may not be perfectly reflective of the general but this trend is really bad. At this point we almost better loving hope Trump runs in 2024. Someone else mentioned it in either this thread or the USCE but if the Republicans can maintain the enthusiasm Trump generated, without needing him to do it, thus avoiding the Dem voter backlash from his toxicity, then this country is in deep poo poo. Idk if Trump running is good for Dems or not. On the one hand they're 1 for 2 beating Trump in elections and Biden is horribly unpopular, not the best odds if he runs. On the other hand they're apparently incapable of running on anything except "butT rump!" and welp
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Nov 4, 2021 00:52
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SourKraut posted:So this is long been debated, but in reality, hitting the ice berg head-on would probably not have saved the ship. The portion of the iceberg below the surface, likely would have opened up the bottom of the boat, far beyond its forward collision protection system, and possibly have expedited the inrush of water beyond the forward compartments. Oh dang, I didn't know that! I've always heard that it would've, but it makes sense that with the low temperatures of the water it would have helped crunch it up I guess the actual metaphorical lesson is we're hosed either way 
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Nov 4, 2021 01:10
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TulliusCicero posted:The everpresent issue is that the majority aging electorate just want to go back to normalcy before Trump and COVID. It's this and it will continue to be this for at least 10 more years
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Nov 4, 2021 01:20
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TulliusCicero posted:The everpresent issue is that the majority aging electorate just want to go back to normalcy before Trump and COVID. I always thought that Gen-X was transitional, with younger Gen-X being just as "liberal" as Millennials and Gen Z, but I might be mistaken. I just don't like being lumped in with the Boomers just because most of my economics teachers were Milton Friedman cultists and I had to learn a lot more stuff on my own.
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Nov 4, 2021 01:51
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SourKraut posted:You seem to resent everything in life. Are you happy for your facist family today? It should be an automatic ban everytime someone complains about the facists in D&D. Talking about the fascists is fair game but I'm sick of this facist slander.
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Nov 4, 2021 01:55
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Generational theory is mostly useless as a matter of analysis and exists primarily to create marketable groups to sell things/ideas to. It also only really applies to white people, since the demarcating lines between what constitutes generations don't really fall in any kind of uniform way across other groups in the way they kind of do when talking about middle class white people. The problem isn't that boomers are conservative and we need to wait them and gen-x out before good things can happen, the systems that entrench money and wealth are generational, but it's not the generations that are the problem. It's the consolidation of wealth and power and the intractability of a system that can only ever grow indefinitely being used as a means of resource allocation. Demographics change and all, but they don't change in such a way that will make rich people, whatever they might be, opt to stop being rich and powerful.
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Nov 4, 2021 01:56
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TulliusCicero posted:Genuinely didn't know that! What shore would they have made it to? Weren't they out in the Northern Atlantic towards Greenland? Ships are designed to slow water filling from a puncture by bulkheads preventing water from the puncture getting into sealed compartments. When the titanic scraped the side of the iceberg it ripped a gash that filled up multiple compartments at once this is a problem because if a part of the ship starts to dip under the water the bulkheads in your other compartments that haven't been compromised could be below waterline and then undamaged compartments start to flood. Had they hit it square on it's unlikely that the damage would have been enough to sink it as the bulkheads in the front would have stopped the water from spilling over and ships are designed to still float with some amount of flooded compartments.
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Nov 4, 2021 02:11
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[quote="SourKraut" post="518980326"] You seem to resent everything in life. Are you happy for your facist family today? My family are not “fascists”. I’m not going to vote for a Republican, but I’m not going to call them fascists. That’s just hyperbole and drama. And IF the republicans are fascists , what does it make the democrats who sit back and do nothing at all to stop them ? 😯
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Nov 4, 2021 02:13
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Peter Daou Zen posted:My family are not “fascists”. I’m not going to vote for a Republican, but I’m not going to call them fascists. That’s just hyperbole and drama. Not really hyperbole, GOP is fascist or peri-fascist at this point. quote:And IF the republicans are fascists , what does it make the democrats who sit back and do nothing at all to stop them ? They're also bad, OP. And inneffectual. And some of them are fascists too.
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Nov 4, 2021 02:30
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The democrats are also poo poo, OP, just slightly less so. And honestly it sounds more like your family are fascist enablers or apologists.
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Nov 4, 2021 02:32
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Jaxyon posted:Not really hyperbole, GOP is fascist or peri-fascist at this point. Then we should be unhappy the only good candidate, Princess , lost about this.
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Nov 4, 2021 02:33
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Eric Cantonese posted:I always thought that Gen-X was transitional, with younger Gen-X being just as "liberal" as Millennials and Gen Z, but I might be mistaken.
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Nov 4, 2021 03:19
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Sedisp posted:Had they hit it square on it's unlikely that the damage would have been enough to sink it as the bulkheads in the front would have stopped the water from spilling over and ships are designed to still float with some amount of flooded compartments. Not to continue the derail much more, but the Titanic's forward bulkheads were designed to protect against impact with another ship, not something with the mass of an iceberg, so it would have ultimately been like a car hitting a The iceberg didn't gouge or cut the hull so much as cause the joints sealed by rivets to open up; from afar, it would look like a "gouge", but up close it would look like separated and buckled/warped plates. The Titanic was designed to remain floating with five flooded compartments; I would suspect that the sheer change in momentum and resulting force upon the exterior hull plates and rivets would have caused substantial breaching that would have seen far more than five compartments taking on water. Bel Shazar posted:The democrats are also poo poo, OP, just slightly less so. You said it far better than I did. Peter Daou Zen posted:Then we should be unhappy the only good candidate, Princess , lost about this. The GOP is a fascist political party now, regardless of whether they self-identify as such. The Democratic Party has fascist elements but is not fascist to the extent that the GOP is. Your family voting for GOP candidates, whether they self-identify as such or not, are supporting fascists as Bel Shazar and Jaxyon said. To me, that makes them fascist, regardless of whether or not they have that view themselves. You are free to disagree, as that's your right and I recognize that they are your family, but your failure to identify them as such is not helping with any potential effort on your part to change their views. Canned Sunshine fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 03:29
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