US Current Events November: D&D's Afghanistan

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Current Events November: D&D's Afghanistan

Fancy Pelosi: Oct 2, 2021; by Hand Knit

This idea that Congressional Democrats "can't get anything done" or that they are "squandering their majority" is simply untrue. People are focused on the flashy bills like the BBB and the BIF, but this session of Congress has, in fact, passed over 29 bills into law thus far.

Here's an incomplete list of some of this session's lesser-known accomplishments:

H.R.26 Construction Consensus Procurement Improvement Act of 2021 - prohibits the federal government from using reverse auctions for complex, specialized, or substantial design and construction services
H.R.208 - To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 500 West Main Street, Suite 102 in Tupelo, Mississippi, as the "Colonel Carlyle 'Smitty' Harris Post Office".
H.R.264 - To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 1101 Charlotte Street in Georgetown, South Carolina, as the "Joseph Hayne Rainey Memorial Post Office Building".
H.R.335 - To provide for an exception to a limitation against appointment of persons as Secretary of Defense within seven years of relief from active duty as a regular commissioned officer of the Armed Forces.
H.R.772 - To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 229 Minnetonka Avenue South in Wayzata, Minnesota, as the "Jim Ramstad Post Office".
H.R.1318 - Alaska Tourism Restoration Act
H.R.2278 - To designate the September 11th National Memorial Trail Route, and for other purposes.
H.R.3325 - To award four congressional gold medals to the United States Capitol Police and those who protected the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021.
H.R.5434 Surface Transportation Extension Act of 2021 - The bill allows federal highway, transit, highway safety, motor carrier, research, and transportation financing programs to continue operations through October 31, 2021

I know "Do-Nothing Democrats" is a meme but they are, in fact, not "doing nothing."

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:05

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# ? May 27, 2024 11:08

A big flaming stink: Apr 26, 2010

Genuine question for the thread: Why should we care about rule of law if it leads to manifestly unjust outcomes?

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:06

lil poopendorfer: Nov 13, 2014; by the sex ghost

Killer robot posted:

Oh, and while the Obamacare repeal in 2017 flubbed, the big tax cut that was the only major legislation of that year didn't pass until December.

If you want to say Biden could be doing things he isn't and that there are many good executive actions he can legally issue but has not, I'm all ears. This does not change the fact that, like many, you probably just heard more noise about what Trump was doing. Whether that's due to media, personal circles, or just how negative changes can feel sudden while positive ones drag.

from what I recall, most of those EOs were reverting Trumps EOs. Kinda uninspiring, how about signing some new, good EOs

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:07

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

Epic High Five posted:

The Progressives haven't budged and have been on the side of both leadership and the White House the entire time. This months long media hell circus is entirely, 100% on the moderates and their refusal to lay anything out or do anything but pout.

Moderates don't really stand for anything. Well they stand for corporate fundraising and doing as little as possible, but that's a given. Their only policy position is, "can we do less?" almost by definition. Whatever you propose they want to make it more moderate.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:13

MooselanderII: Feb 18, 2004

A big flaming stink posted:

Genuine question for the thread: Why should we care about rule of law if it leads to manifestly unjust outcomes?

"Rule of law" is just a dumb smoke screen for establishment types to justify inaction, there is always room for administrative creativity and flexibility if there is energy for it. The people using it to defend the status quo are delusional.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:13

Gumball Gumption: Jan 7, 2012

A big flaming stink posted:

Genuine question for the thread: Why should we care about rule of law if it leads to manifestly unjust outcomes?

The answer is going to be the same brain weirdness that made people in the past think leaders were gifts from god but it's not cool to say that anymore so it's going to be a lot of "that's how it works" without acknowledging that literally none of it is set in stone.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:14

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

TulliusCicero posted:

This... is a fair point. I have had a very rough week personally, so I am probably not seeing things accurately atm

I do need to stop posting in politics atm. Getting angry for no reason.

Dude you and me both.

I'm having a ridic back week at work and watching the incredible own goals from the Dems is going to make me punch a wall.

Like....you didn't spend ANY MONEY on the voting rights ballot props, NYS dems? you loving what

lil poopendorfer posted:

from what I recall, most of those EOs were reverting Trumps EOs. Kinda uninspiring, how about signing some new, good EOs

Nope. He had more non-reversal ordres than Trump as well.

You can look this stuff up you know.

Disclaimer: Again, Biden sucks. This is no way me saying that Biden isn't poo poo.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:16

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

A big flaming stink posted:

Genuine question for the thread: Why should we care about rule of law if it leads to manifestly unjust outcomes?

Without rule of law we have rule of man by fiat, which will lead to even greater manifestly unjust outcomes.

The rule of law puts some constraints on just how terrible people can be to each other.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:19

Peter Daou Zen: Apr 6, 2021; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Fancy Pelosi posted:

This idea that Congressional Democrats "can't get anything done" or that they are "squandering their majority" is simply untrue. People are focused on the flashy bills like the BBB and the BIF, but this session of Congress has, in fact, passed over 29 bills into law thus far.

Here's an incomplete list of some of this session's lesser-known accomplishments:

H.R.26 Construction Consensus Procurement Improvement Act of 2021 - prohibits the federal government from using reverse auctions for complex, specialized, or substantial design and construction services

H.R.208 - To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 500 West Main Street, Suite 102 in Tupelo, Mississippi, as the "Colonel Carlyle 'Smitty' Harris Post Office".

H.R.264 - To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 1101 Charlotte Street in Georgetown, South Carolina, as the "Joseph Hayne Rainey Memorial Post Office Building".

H.R.335 - To provide for an exception to a limitation against appointment of persons as Secretary of Defense within seven years of relief from active duty as a regular commissioned officer of the Armed Forces.

H.R.772 - To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 229 Minnetonka Avenue South in Wayzata, Minnesota, as the "Jim Ramstad Post Office".

H.R.1318 - Alaska Tourism Restoration Act

H.R.2278 - To designate the September 11th National Memorial Trail Route, and for other purposes.

H.R.3325 - To award four congressional gold medals to the United States Capitol Police and those who protected the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021.

H.R.5434 Surface Transportation Extension Act of 2021 - The bill allows federal highway, transit, highway safety, motor carrier, research, and transportation financing programs to continue operations through October 31, 2021

I know "Do-Nothing Democrats" is a meme but they are, in fact, not "doing nothing."

This is an extremely impressive list of the Democrats accomplishments , Fancy.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:20

Sarcastr0: May 29, 2013; WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE BILLIONAIRES ?!?!?

A big flaming stink posted:

Genuine question for the thread: Why should we care about rule of law if it leads to manifestly unjust outcomes?

Because not having rule of law will make it vastly more unjust.

We have laws - have had them since the written word - because we recognize that an arbitrary system is fundamentally unjust. It cannot be made just because it cannot be made to do anything.
Best you can hope for is the hierarchical thuggery of feudalism.

By looking to laws, not people, you have a system you can at least have hope of reforming.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:21

Sanguinia: Jan 1, 2012; ~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Reading this thread today feels like I'm in a room full of teenage libertarians who listened to Armstrong's speech from Metal Gear Rising and nodded along with every word. Yeah, gently caress off Rule of Law! The Law SHOULD change to suit the individual, countries SHOULD be ruled by strength not committee, and we SHOULD all have the ability to fight our own wars! NANOMACHINES, SON!

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:30

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

Peter Daou Zen posted:

This is an extremely impressive list of the Democrats accomplishments , Fancy.

One could call it "walking on the ceiling."

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:31

Gumball Gumption: Jan 7, 2012

Being less of a goof about it, the rule of law as an ideal is great thing. We also don't really have it in the US. The law is not equal or equitable in the US and never has been. The idea of the rule of law is great but if the law isn't applied equally and you're using rule of law as a reason to stand in the way of improving that than you're really just making excuses.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:32

Ershalim: Sep 22, 2008; Clever Betty

Sanguinia posted:

Reading this thread today feels like I'm in a room full of teenage libertarians who listened to Armstrong's speech from Metal Gear Rising and nodded along with every word. Yeah, gently caress off Rule of Law! The Law SHOULD change to suit the individual, countries SHOULD be ruled by strength not committee, and we SHOULD all have the ability to fight our own wars! NANOMACHINES, SON!

It's probably more that the rule of law does change to suit certain individuals. Like how police and rich people are functionally immune to laws, for example. What most of the teenage libertarians are actually saying is, "look, these laws obviously didn't apply to the bad people who wanted to do the bad things, so why should we care about them now?" Which is a bit of a hyperbole, yes, but it's not like they're applying videogame logic to real lif situations. There's frustration that there's seemingly no will to push against the boundaries to see where they really are when we can benefit from that, but apparently an endless appetite to do so when it works against us.

I don't think venting about that is immature, tbh

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:33

Peter Daou Zen: Apr 6, 2021; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Sanguinia posted:

Reading this thread today feels like I'm in a room full of teenage libertarians who listened to Armstrong's speech from Metal Gear Rising and nodded along with every word. Yeah, gently caress off Rule of Law! The Law SHOULD change to suit the individual, countries SHOULD be ruled by strength not committee, and we SHOULD all have the ability to fight our own wars! NANOMACHINES, SON!

I�ll take the sexy bisexual vampires, the neo samurais, the Old Men fighting Each Other over the insane gridlock in congress that gets absolutely nothing done

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:36

Gucci Loafers: May 20, 2006; Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?

Gumball Gumption posted:

Being less of a goof about it, the rule of law as an ideal is great thing. We also don't really have it in the US. The law is not equal or equitable in the US and never has been. The idea of the rule of law is great but if the law isn't applied equally and you're using rule of law as a reason to stand in the way of improving that than you're really just making excuses.

Have you ever been outside the United States? Or a developing Country?

The US has it's issue but there's certainly some rule of law.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:36

Sanguinia: Jan 1, 2012; ~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Peter Daou Zen posted:

I�ll take the sexy bisexual vampires, the neo samurais, the Old Men fighting Each Other over the insane gridlock in congress that gets absolutely nothing done

We'll probably never agree on anything again, but I can agree with this. :ocelot:

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:40

Gumball Gumption: Jan 7, 2012

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

Have you ever been outside the United States? Or a developing Country?

The US has it's issue but there's certainly some rule of law.

Yeah, I'm with you and it's absolutely worse in other countries. It's also better in some others. You could say that while we try to follow it we also don't execute it properly, like you said we have some issues but we have it, very poorly, and it's never applied to everyone equally but yeah we have it. I'm glad we can agree too that if you're citing rule of law as a reason to not take actions that make our laws more equitable and fair it's not actually rule of law that's blocking you from taking those actions.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:42

Bel Shazar: Sep 14, 2012

Small White Dragon posted:

We might have had the infrastructure bill already if it wasn�t for the progressives holding out.

So no, they are far from blameless in this.

That's a constructed argument built by moderate democrats and republicans. It's one package... negotiate it and vote it in, don't pick up a right wing talking point to bash the left.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:42

virtualboyCOLOR: Dec 22, 2004

Sarcastr0 posted:

By looking to laws, not people, you have a system you can at least have hope of reforming.

This is false based on the entirety of American history. Unless incredibly small incremental steps somehow wets your whistle. It�s still fundamentally legal for white people to murder minorities, and that�s been true since the founding of the country.

Hell, slavery is still the rule of law in America. Great thing to uphold.

Small White Dragon posted:

We might have had the infrastructure bill already if it wasn�t for the progressives holding out.

So no, they are far from blameless in this.

This is also false but has a cherry on top of being disgusting and vile. The progressives are standing up for the average American to actually get meaningful benefits for once. Do better.

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

Have you ever been outside the United States?

Yeah, they have healthcare.

virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Nov 4, 2021

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:45

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

Have you ever been outside the United States? Or a developing Country?

The US has it's issue but there's certainly some rule of law.

Winston Churchill was right. Democracy is indeed an absolutely terrible form of government. It's just that everything else we've tried is even worse.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:50

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

Laws are not inherently good, and "oh you want to do X for good? What if X was done for bad later?" can be applied to literally anything; it's a rallying cry for stagnation.

This is without getting into the fact that signing an executive order which might be repealed by the courts later is not, in fact, breaking any laws. Thats in fact how the system works!

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:50

Sarcastr0: May 29, 2013; WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE BILLIONAIRES ?!?!?

Neurolimal posted:

Laws are not inherently good, and "oh you want to do X for good? What if X was done for bad later?" can be applied to literally anything; it's a rallying cry for stagnation.

This is without getting into the fact that signing an executive order which might be repealed by the courts later is not, in fact, breaking any laws. Thats in fact how the system works!

Laws are not inherently good, it�s that lack of laws is inherently bad.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:52

lil poopendorfer: Nov 13, 2014; by the sex ghost

Jaxyon posted:

Dude you and me both.

I'm having a ridic back week at work and watching the incredible own goals from the Dems is going to make me punch a wall.

Like....you didn't spend ANY MONEY on the voting rights ballot props, NYS dems? you loving what

Nope. He had more non-reversal ordres than Trump as well.

You can look this stuff up you know.

Disclaimer: Again, Biden sucks. This is no way me saying that Biden isn't poo poo.

ok, of the 42 EOs signed, 21 weren't revoactions of prior orders. I stand corrected: many, not most were rollbacks of trump stuff

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:54

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

Small White Dragon posted:

We might have had the infrastructure bill already if it wasn�t for the progressives holding out.

So no, they are far from blameless in this.

LOL what

You've been watching too much right wing news.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 02:55

StratGoatCom: Aug 6, 2019; Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice

Sanguinia posted:

Reading this thread today feels like I'm in a room full of teenage libertarians who listened to Armstrong's speech from Metal Gear Rising and nodded along with every word. Yeah, gently caress off Rule of Law! The Law SHOULD change to suit the individual, countries SHOULD be ruled by strength not committee, and we SHOULD all have the ability to fight our own wars! NANOMACHINES, SON!

The rule of law cannot be a suicide pact.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 03:00

Sarcastr0: May 29, 2013; WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE BILLIONAIRES ?!?!?

virtualboyCOLOR posted:

This is false based on the entirety of American history. Unless incredibly small incremental steps somehow wets your whistle. It�s still fundamentally legal for white people to murder minorities, and that�s been true since the founding of the country.

Hell, slavery is still the rule of law in America. Great thing to uphold.

This is also false but has a cherry on top of being disgusting and vile. The progressives are standing up for the average American to actually get meaningful benefits for once. Do better.

Yeah, they have healthcare.

Jesus, dude. You would think we have made no progress since 1776.

Also, you do know what hope means, right? Invoking hope should not make you so angry.

Seems less like you have an alternative to rule of law and just want to scream how bad things are.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 03:02

Flopsy: Mar 4, 2013

Fancy Pelosi posted:

This idea that Congressional Democrats "can't get anything done" or that they are "squandering their majority" is simply untrue. People are focused on the flashy bills like the BBB and the BIF, but this session of Congress has, in fact, passed over 29 bills into law thus far.

Here's an incomplete list of some of this session's lesser-known accomplishments:

H.R.26 Construction Consensus Procurement Improvement Act of 2021 - prohibits the federal government from using reverse auctions for complex, specialized, or substantial design and construction services

H.R.208 - To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 500 West Main Street, Suite 102 in Tupelo, Mississippi, as the "Colonel Carlyle 'Smitty' Harris Post Office".

H.R.264 - To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 1101 Charlotte Street in Georgetown, South Carolina, as the "Joseph Hayne Rainey Memorial Post Office Building".

H.R.335 - To provide for an exception to a limitation against appointment of persons as Secretary of Defense within seven years of relief from active duty as a regular commissioned officer of the Armed Forces.

H.R.772 - To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 229 Minnetonka Avenue South in Wayzata, Minnesota, as the "Jim Ramstad Post Office".

H.R.1318 - Alaska Tourism Restoration Act

H.R.2278 - To designate the September 11th National Memorial Trail Route, and for other purposes.

H.R.3325 - To award four congressional gold medals to the United States Capitol Police and those who protected the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021.

H.R.5434 Surface Transportation Extension Act of 2021 - The bill allows federal highway, transit, highway safety, motor carrier, research, and transportation financing programs to continue operations through October 31, 2021

I know "Do-Nothing Democrats" is a meme but they are, in fact, not "doing nothing."

Why the gently caress are you here?

# ? Nov 4, 2021 03:07

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Ershalim posted:

As a matter of practicality, what else would we call him? In the discourse of American politics, Joe Biden is "the left" with what is, kind of "the most progressive platform in US history." We can't really call Manchin a conservative because that word is reserved for republicans. And calling him leather-faced money goblin with a nose like a frog's rear end would simply be unkind.

Conservative democrats, while useless, aren't straight up conservatives. Well, I mean, they are, but if we called them "conservatives" without the context of whatever we'd have to change the name of republicans to I feel like it'd just confuse the issue.

We should be calling him a conservative because that's what he is. Yeah, the political spectrum in America is completely hosed, but you're not gonna fix that by going along with it.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 03:07

DeadlyMuffin: Jul 3, 2007

Flopsy posted:

Why the gently caress are you here?

I think there was a vote about whether or not to keep the obvious troll.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 03:13

Killer robot: Sep 6, 2010; I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!; Pillbug

lil poopendorfer posted:

ok, of the 42 EOs signed, 21 weren't revoactions of prior orders. I stand corrected: many, not most were rollbacks of trump stuff

Additionally, not only were many of Trump's early EOs there to undo Obama policies but so was the big first legislative push to repeal Obamacare. Especially in a polarized country, early actions after a party flip are going to be "And I'll undo this thing the last guy hosed up!" It's all the more true for Republicans who have convinced themselves that all bad things are caused by liberals and foreigners and when you stop them you never have to do anything else.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 03:13

Byzantine: Sep 1, 2007

Sanguinia posted:

Ah yes, notoriously bad societal practice "The Rule of Law." What we really need is more Ceasars in modern politics.

The Empire invented the hospital and provided free healthcare for its citizens.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 03:21

Gumball Gumption: Jan 7, 2012

Sarcastr0 posted:

Jesus, dude. You would think we have made no progress since 1776.

Also, you do know what hope means, right? Invoking hope should not make you so angry.

Seems less like you have an alternative to rule of law and just want to scream how bad things are.

Maybe take this poo poo to cspam or something? D&D is for having intelligent conversations. If you're just going to accuse everyone of being as blinded by emotion as you than it's not going to go well.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 03:22

How are u: May 19, 2005; by Azathoth

Flopsy posted:

Why the gently caress are you here?

I think its pretty fair to put the guy who did a big performative "ah ha! I unmask myself as a deep-cover troll! I have owned you, libs!" on ignore.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 03:25

Sanguinia: Jan 1, 2012; ~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Byzantine posted:

The Empire invented the hospital and provided free healthcare for its citizens.

Imperialism, a system of enrichment for people that famously has no downsides.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 03:32

Flopsy: Mar 4, 2013

DeadlyMuffin posted:

I think there was a vote about whether or not to keep the obvious troll.

I'm aware. I was there for it and in fact voted in it. Apparently that was for shits and giggles because their rear end is still here regardless of their ban getting an overwhelming 67% to 35%. Would love an explanation for that by the way. Guess we need a shithead to keep the rest of us honest I guess????

edit: N/M just got one. Just put them on ignore because gently caress this noise.

Flopsy fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Nov 4, 2021

# ? Nov 4, 2021 03:35

FLIPADELPHIA: Apr 27, 2007; Heavy Shit; Grimey Drawer

Flopsy posted:

Why the gently caress are you here?

This is an especially good question given that last I checked, the thread had overwhelmingly voted to actually enforce the forum rules and remove the obvious and admitted troll. Guess that was just for lols

# ? Nov 4, 2021 03:54

Police_monitoring: Oct 11, 2021; by sebmojo

Love that the people who were crying about people being mean to the dems retraumatising them now pontificating about the primacy of the rule of law, bodes well for the future

# ? Nov 4, 2021 03:57

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Fancy Pelosi posted:

This idea that Congressional Democrats "can't get anything done" or that they are "squandering their majority" is simply untrue. People are focused on the flashy bills like the BBB and the BIF, but this session of Congress has, in fact, passed over 29 bills into law thus far.

Here's an incomplete list of some of this session's lesser-known accomplishments:

H.R.26 Construction Consensus Procurement Improvement Act of 2021 - prohibits the federal government from using reverse auctions for complex, specialized, or substantial design and construction services

H.R.208 - To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 500 West Main Street, Suite 102 in Tupelo, Mississippi, as the "Colonel Carlyle 'Smitty' Harris Post Office".

H.R.264 - To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 1101 Charlotte Street in Georgetown, South Carolina, as the "Joseph Hayne Rainey Memorial Post Office Building".

H.R.335 - To provide for an exception to a limitation against appointment of persons as Secretary of Defense within seven years of relief from active duty as a regular commissioned officer of the Armed Forces.

H.R.772 - To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 229 Minnetonka Avenue South in Wayzata, Minnesota, as the "Jim Ramstad Post Office".

H.R.1318 - Alaska Tourism Restoration Act

H.R.2278 - To designate the September 11th National Memorial Trail Route, and for other purposes.

H.R.3325 - To award four congressional gold medals to the United States Capitol Police and those who protected the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021.

H.R.5434 Surface Transportation Extension Act of 2021 - The bill allows federal highway, transit, highway safety, motor carrier, research, and transportation financing programs to continue operations through October 31, 2021

I know "Do-Nothing Democrats" is a meme but they are, in fact, not "doing nothing."

How's Alaska's tourism doing

# ? Nov 4, 2021 03:58

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# ? May 27, 2024 11:08

LGD: Sep 25, 2004

I don�t know why fancy would be suddenly be censured after a posting career that was previously uncontroversial and in line with the long term direction of the forum encouraged by moderation staff.

# ? Nov 4, 2021 04:01

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Current Events November: D&D's Afghanistan

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