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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:They made it all into one mode now, so the OS reacts appropriately depending on input - touch keyboard when you tap a text field, larger touch targets when resizing Windows with pen/touch, etc - but otherwise it's one experience for every use case. Huh, thanks. I'd check it out but I can't, my Kaby Lake 7y30 is apparently unsupported. "If the decision to support one specific 7th-generation Core i7 laptop processor strikes you as odd, you don't need to look far for an explanation—this just happens to be the CPU included in Microsoft's Surface Studio 2, which Microsoft still sells but has not updated in three years" https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/loosened-windows-11-requirements-cover-the-surface-studio-2-but-not-much-else/ Lol. Though it looks like it might be possible to install manually but I can't quite be bothered yet
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Nov 4, 2021 12:10
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I mean I dont wanna paint with a broad brush here, but it works fine on my old 4th gen i5 Surface Pro 3. Long as you install clean off a bootable flash drive I think you're fine.
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Nov 4, 2021 12:29
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Rinkles posted:In order to turn on TPM the BIOS is telling me I need to disable "Legacy Option ROMs". Any reason that would be a bad idea? This is a Dell laptop. No. edit: a legacy option ROM would be needed if you like had a RAID controller card from 2003 or something
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Nov 4, 2021 13:03
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So I was finally able to install Windows 11 on my ancient desktop; a core i7 930 from 2010 which as far as I can tell is a 1st gen Core i7. The BIOS is so old that it isn't UEFI. I used the Rufus thumb drive method and it worked (only as a fresh install; could not do it as an upgrade which kinda sucked to be honest, I despise having to set everything up again from scratch). And it works perfectly fine on my desktop! Which definitely shows the CPU requirements are asinine. Anyway some things I noticed about Win11: 1) It took me an ungodly amount of time to figure out where to disable sleep mode. The advanced power menu setting where you can turn off hibernation and stuff like that is almost impossible to find to the point where I actually thought it was gone. 2) The new taskbar is terrible, mostly because you can't drag a shortcut to it to have it pinned there. Why the hell was this removed?? Also no more desktop peek which is such a stupid thing to remove. 3) This is a real odd one. There's a registry edit (also an option in WinAeroTweaker) to go back to the old taskbar, which I did, and I loved it. But...this completely gets rid of the start menu somehow? I looked forever and could not figure out how to open the start menu; it's like somehow enabling the old taskbar gets rid of it entirely. The Windows key on the keyboard doesn't even work. So I guess the workaround is to use OpenShell? I'd still like to be able to choose between OpenShell and the Win11 start menu though. I could use the new taskbar, however OpenShell completely fucks up where the start button is supposed to be so clicking the start button 80% of the time will open the Win11 start menu instead of OpenShell. 
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Nov 4, 2021 13:36
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There are a couple alternatives to OpenShell. StartAllBack is a popular choice.
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Nov 4, 2021 13:54
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Heran Bago posted:There are a couple alternatives to OpenShell. StartAllBack is a popular choice. Not a bad idea but I have OpenShell on my server and laptop so I'm used to it. I am sure they eventually will fix the start button placement issue (though I am surprised they haven't already). Also would like to be able to use the old taskbar without it somehow completely disabling the Win11 start menu. I'd really love to know the science behind that.
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Nov 4, 2021 13:59
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mobby_6kl posted:Huh, thanks. I'd check it out but I can't, my Kaby Lake 7y30 is apparently unsupported. You can bypass the CPU and TPM requirement with a single addition to the registry, so if you want to try it out then it'll take more time to download the installer than it will to apply the fix: https://www.theverge.com/22715331/how-to-install-windows-11-unsupported-cpu-intel-amd-registry-regedit
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Nov 4, 2021 14:28
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13,000 upvotes on the feedback asking to restore ability to leave taskbar icons ungrouped. Thirteen thousand. Do it, you fuckers
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Nov 4, 2021 14:37
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Has anyone had issues with double clicking being messed up? It’s like double click speed was set too slow and my doubles registered as too many. Also could be some modifier key is stuck on keyboard, I’m just chasing phantoms at this point. Trying to figure out if bad hardware or coincidental this happened around the upgrade time.
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Nov 4, 2021 14:43
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Heran Bago posted:There are a couple alternatives to OpenShell. StartAllBack is a popular choice. SAB is $5 and works great on my i5/GTX970 2015-era desktop I put Win11 on. I didn’t really have a need to do it, and it has a TPM “slot” but no actual hardware. It installed clean and has been getting updates since installation (after the “delete the .dell method). I still have a use case for it, and didn’t want to constantly dunk on Win11 unless I was actually using a copy every day/week. It was unusable without StartAllBack, and I paid the fee to upgrade a week into the free trial period. It’s just silly to need third party programs and registry tricks to restore functionality on what is touted as an “upgrade.” It works well with my third gen iPad as a second monitor though. Some app on the AppStore compatible with iOS 10.3 and lower, since it hasn’t gotten any updates for years!
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Nov 4, 2021 17:05
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Noticed a bug where it likes to stack items in my taskbar on top of each other rather than, you know, giving each its own spot.
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Nov 4, 2021 20:16
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To the goon that had the Snipping Tool issue: Apparently that's a known bug, Microsoft shipped old certificates with Windows 11, causing some apps to stop running after November 1. They did issue an update, but that doesn't seem to work on Snipping Tool and some Settings pages for some users: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...905cae14&page=1 MS is working on a fix
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Nov 4, 2021 22:46
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Fame Douglas posted:To the goon that had the Snipping Tool issue: Apparently that's a known bug, Microsoft shipped old certificates with Windows 11, causing some apps to stop running after November 1. They did issue an update, but that doesn't seem to work on Snipping Tool and some Settings pages for some users: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...905cae14&page=1 That's great, thanks for the heads-up 
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Nov 5, 2021 00:19
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AlternateAccount posted:Noticed a bug where it likes to stack items in my taskbar on top of each other rather than, you know, giving each its own spot. Dirty upgrade? This tends to happen with those with preexisting shortcuts from your previous w10 installation. Remove the old one and it should fix it
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Nov 5, 2021 02:17
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:You can bypass the CPU and TPM requirement with a single addition to the registry, so if you want to try it out then it'll take more time to download the installer than it will to apply the fix: Thanks. I tried it but the installer won't let me through, but without telling why 
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Nov 5, 2021 17:04
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mobby_6kl posted:Thanks. I tried it but the installer won't let me through, but without telling why Registry method only works on fresh installs. Try deleting appraiserres.dll from the sources directory and disabling your internet connection before you run the installer.
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Nov 5, 2021 17:19
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Fame Douglas posted:Registry method only works on fresh installs. Try deleting appraiserres.dll from the sources directory and disabling your internet connection before you run the installer. I'll give it a go but so far I'm not exactly impressed by the touch-centric changes. Swiping from the right now doesn't bring up the quick settings thing (which doesn't have rotation lock now?) and swiping from the left shows some useless widgets instead of the task switcher. Explorer seems to have been dumbed down too. The start menu doesn't have a dedicated place for settings and it's instead hidden among other apps. At least it seems like they finally cleaned up the settings a bit. Doctor_Fruitbat posted:They made it all into one mode now, so the OS reacts appropriately depending on input - touch keyboard when you tap a text field, larger touch targets when resizing Windows with pen/touch, etc - but otherwise it's one experience for every use case.
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Nov 5, 2021 21:21
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I just tried loading Win 11 on a brand new 11th gen 11600k, 16GB RAM, all the security poo poo turned on in the BIOS. The installer said NOT COMPATIBLE. So then I upgraded the BIOS to the lastest version that said it was for Windows 11... same loving thing, Not compatible. So I loaded Win 10 and then did the 11 upgrade which worked. What the gently caress?!
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Nov 5, 2021 21:24
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redeyes posted:I just tried loading Win 11 on a brand new 11th gen 11600k, 16GB RAM, all the security poo poo turned on in the BIOS. The installer said NOT COMPATIBLE. So then I upgraded the BIOS to the lastest version that said it was for Windows 11... same loving thing, Not compatible. So I loaded Win 10 and then did the 11 upgrade which worked. Microsoft
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Nov 5, 2021 21:39
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I'll be damned if Im going to go through a lot of BS to load Win 11 on new systems. Either MS fixes this crock of poo poo or the only people with 11 are going to be buying brand new OEM systems.
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Nov 5, 2021 22:47
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What's their obsession with focusing on touch anyway? I thought that was a fad like netbooks or something. Everyone hated Windows 8, and then people started realizing that doing real work on an iPad sucks rear end and pc and laptop sales rose from the ashes again. And people using PCs realized you get gorilla arm using a touch screen and it sucks rear end 99% of the time. What's their obsession with touch screens? I can't even understand it from a financial perspective.
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Nov 5, 2021 22:59
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It's just the latest hype thing far as I can tell. Mouse/Keyboard is superior for anything that isn't a tiny mobile device.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:02
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I thought the hype peaked in like 2009 after the iPad came out and I thought it died by like 2014
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Nov 5, 2021 23:12
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Chumbawumba4ever97 posted:What's their obsession with focusing on touch anyway? I thought that was a fad like netbooks or something. Everyone hated Windows 8, and then people started realizing that doing real work on an iPad sucks rear end and pc and laptop sales rose from the ashes again. And people using PCs realized you get gorilla arm using a touch screen and it sucks rear end 99% of the time. What's their obsession with touch screens? I can't even understand it from a financial perspective. At least part of it seems like salvaging what they can from Windows 10X. https://microsoft.fandom.com/wiki/Windows_10X
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Nov 5, 2021 23:24
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There's an absolute shitload of people working in creative industries for whom touch input is a necessity, and having a touch device on the go is extremely useful, hence why iPads are currently the go-to portable device for illustrators and the like. Not to mention other uses like taking orders and payments in shops, drawing floorplans on the fly for estate agents, signing documents, easy handwritten note taking while walking around, I could sit here all day listing good uses for a tablet. A desktop or laptop is better for standard office work, no doubt, there's a lot more "real work" out there that touch input is incredibly useful for. The iPad isn't succeeding because people want extremely expensive coffee table devices. Windows has been slow off the mark getting itself tablet ready, but the idea that there isn't a market for it in the business world is laughably short sighted, and Windows doesn't really have any more market share to take in the desktop world.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:26
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I'm honestly trying to think of a space where touch as a primary interaction for all compute is ideal. I totally buy that a Surface Studio-like device is the dream for someone in Illustrator or PS or whatever, but to bring those ideas to a computer OS-wide is a much harder sell. This is double true if you need to produce keyboard input at all, which is a disaster on touch. I'm going to sound a little bit Steve Balmer-y here, but I'm pretty convinced that unless you have a use for a pen, touch is a toy and completely inferior in speed and resolution of control across the vast majority of use cases.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:07
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They should have the stupid start menu and weird spacing for when the computer is in tablet mode instead of making everyone suffer.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:17
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:I'm honestly trying to think of a space where touch as a primary interaction for all compute is ideal. I totally buy that a Surface Studio-like device is the dream for someone in Illustrator or PS or whatever, but to bring those ideas to a computer OS-wide is a much harder sell. This is double true if you need to produce keyboard input at all, which is a disaster on touch. The niche of laptops with touchscreens is a thing, but yeah, it's not the biggest segment there is. My Mom got used to using both the touchscreen on her surface and a keyboard and mouse, and I do similar stuff on my Chromebook, but it's a relatively narrow use-case. My Boomer mother is fine with Windows 10 in this situation, and I'm pretty sure Windows 11 would just confuse her more.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:17
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Arivia posted:it's better for tablets though I’m very sorry if my shitposting actually convinced anyone to install windows 11, my sincere apologies Also I picked up an M1 iPad Pro as a laptop replacement recently for university and it’s great, but most of my work is reading and marking up PDFs so it fits that form factor really well. If I had any coding needs it wouldn’t have worked for sure e: buying Apple’s laptop keyboard + trackpad folio was a non-negotiable addition though
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Nov 6, 2021 00:24
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Posting on my surface in bed. Touch is great. Also I use it to doodle or read rpg pdfs. Then attach the keyboard to play rimworld
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Nov 6, 2021 00:47
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Well whatever update they pushed today or yesterday fixed the Snipping Tool issue I was having The full-screen snip sound is really unnerving
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Nov 6, 2021 00:51
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Touch is the best we got when raw convenience is the element you are solving for, or when doesn't allow for better input devices, but if you work on that 8 hours a day...
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Nov 6, 2021 00:54
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Arivia posted:I’m very sorry if my shitposting actually convinced anyone to install windows 11, my sincere apologies  Should've just bought a Yoga  Canine Blues Arooo posted:I'm honestly trying to think of a space where touch as a primary interaction for all compute is ideal. I totally buy that a Surface Studio-like device is the dream for someone in Illustrator or PS or whatever, but to bring those ideas to a computer OS-wide is a much harder sell. This is double true if you need to produce keyboard input at all, which is a disaster on touch.
I'm posting from a cube mix plus, which is a slate that docks into a solid keyboard base:  Basically 90% of the time I used it docked as a little netbook. 10% of the time I'd use the pen to make notes or draw something on a whiteboard. Occasionally I'd touch the screen to scroll or zoom etc. Veeery rarely I'd undock it completely and use like a tablet. It actually worked fine as a tablet for browsing or reading stuff but even then usually having it docked was just more convenient. Eventually the keyboard poo poo itself so I've been using it as a regular slate. And the main reason that sucks has nothing to do with the specific device itself or windows, but the form factor in general. Browsing is fine until you need to type something, then it's a pain in the rear end. Watching videos sucks because you have to hold it awkwardly, instead of just having it sit on the keyboard. Hence why I think the Yoga form factor is the best.
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Nov 6, 2021 01:46
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Has W11 removed/obfuscated more of the useful control panels or do they still survive?
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Nov 6, 2021 01:46
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Arivia posted:I’m very sorry if my shitposting actually convinced anyone to install windows 11, my sincere apologies I have a very “old” iPad that I keep in my laptop bag in case I need a really good screen (1st Retina display; I don’t even know what model it is or how to find out without  ) as a second monitor. Some files take forever to load, but reading Batman and Wolverine back issues and free books on Kindle app/iBooks can’t be beat. I don’t like being on WiFi tethering, though, because I’m perma stuck on iOS 10.3. Constantine graphic novels ate my 16Gb of storage like nobody’s business, though. Worth it, of course! Who needs an iTunes app when it’s already better on my phone anyway? 😜
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Nov 6, 2021 02:21
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I've made up my mind, besides the right click menu being changed to have to maneuver to a second menu to use 7zip, I actually like windows 11 so far 
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Nov 6, 2021 18:29
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yeah actually, i upgraded to 11 again three or four days ago and immediately installed StartAllBack and i can't say i have any complaints now...besides needing a third party app to fix all of the stupid default stuff i guess
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Nov 6, 2021 20:18
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Is it worse or about the same with making you sign in with a MS account and having to disable all the weird privacy things? Thinking of jumping to 11 but I can only image they have more things that you’re default opted into.
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Nov 7, 2021 02:25
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I installed it and never had to use an online account. That only applies to Pro though
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Nov 7, 2021 04:29
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I upgraded the Home version on the tablet and it never asked me to make an online account, activate Cortana or any of that nonsense
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Nov 7, 2021 09:16
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