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Wait, people don't just... Have one dude that fights with the banner at all times? The banner is great.
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Oct 26, 2021 12:48
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Genghis Cohen posted:I'm the opposite - I find that an ideal backline guy is relatively easy to find and synergises very well with a Bannerman. You need MAttack and Fatigue for a swordlancer, that's it. Add Resolve and he's a bannerman, you only need Rally+Fortified Mind, which supports you taking Fearsome anyway. If you are super focussed on the banner you can take Quick Hands, but it's hardly necessary as I only ever take a banner in undead fights, and then I just replace the swordlance/billhook before combat. I think backline polearm guys are one of the only builds that have the perks spare to make a bannerman. Frontline bros need the perks, what would they give up for Rally+Fortified mind? Ahh, I don't really do polearms past the early game. My backline is generally 4 thrower hybrids (the hybrid part is a two handed weapon so they don't need to be baby sat).
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Oct 26, 2021 12:55
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Veryslightlymad posted:Wait, people don't just... Have one dude that fights with the banner at all times? The banner is great. It's not really needed when you're winning fights outside of like, a few enemies. Other weapons let you win fights harder.
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Oct 26, 2021 13:00
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I usually give my bannerman quickhands and just have him keep the banner in his pocket until needed.
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Oct 26, 2021 13:30
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Bannerbros with high Matt also make great use of a whip as secondary and you usually have room for the cleaver mastery too
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Oct 26, 2021 14:33
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I'm not convinced most other weapons are better, though. Of the other polearms, the Billhook is clearly better on damage, and the Swordlance is able to sometimes hit more than one enemy, but other than that... Eh. The banner does shockingly good work. It's also 100% to armor. Like, the difference between it and something else is so marginal, I don't see a point in taking it off. You're almost never going to need to, since you're doing competent damage reliably to whatever you want. Someone said whip, and that makes sense to me. Another thought I just had is bags and belts and then making the banner a source of nets, bandages, fire pots, whatever.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:42
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Veryslightlymad posted:I'm not convinced most other weapons are better, though. Of the other polearms, the Billhook is clearly better on damage, and the Swordlance is able to sometimes hit more than one enemy, but other than that... Eh. The banner does shockingly good work. It's also 100% to armor. Like, the difference between it and something else is so marginal, I don't see a point in taking it off. You're almost never going to need to, since you're doing competent damage reliably to whatever you want. I find the most important stats on weapons as you get further into the game becomes the combination of base damage and damage through armor. Although a couple of hammers to smash armor is also nice. This is why like the barb skull mace and the chosen axe, slightly lower base damage but higher penetration results in quicker kills overall. In a reach weapon world billhooks I find preferable, longaxes are good too, I don't remember their stats but if I'm taking axe mastery on my 2 handed axe bros a longaxe goes in the back pocket. And if you want backline damage, seriously heavy jav plus duelist plus throwing mastery puts out the hurt. Cast_No_Shadow fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 18:03
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Throwers require somewhat competent ranged. A bannerman basically needs nothing but morale. And their damage and penetration is pretty good. Again, 100% pen, where a sword lance is only 90. I've never had a bannerman and said, "yes, this is the guy who is slacking on damage" even against unholds, named knights, the works. And the banner effect is passive. With passives in games in general, it's almost always better to have and not need than bring out whenever you do. Like, I don't deny it could be better, I just absolutely do not see a point. Min maxing something that trivial feels almost wasteful.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:19
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Welcome to the Battle brothers thread.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:26
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Doing marginally less damage but across three targets is way greater than just hitting one guy 10% harder.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:28
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dogstile posted:Doing marginally less damage but across three targets is way greater than just hitting one guy 10% harder. Not when that guy is a chosen about to Murk someone and that 10% difference means he survives and your guy dies.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:31
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If I let three guys get to within reach of one back line dude, I have seriously hosed up.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:57
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Veryslightlymad posted:If I let three guys get to within reach of one back line dude, I have seriously hosed up. Huh? By the nature of 2-tile reach weapons, a swordlance in the centre of your second line will almost always be within reach of 3 enemies. The banner is fine as a weapon. But a Billhook is definitively better unless your men start breaking, or maybe you're facing magic that targets Resolve. Throwers are terrific damage output (I run hybrid archer/throwers and hybrid duellist/throwers) but I still find a place for pole-arms: they're not effected by darkness, they can use Swordlances combined with Fearsome to break morale, and critically, it is much easier to find acceptable recruits than to find good ranged candidates.
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Oct 26, 2021 19:31
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Had a good company, went on a caravan escort that saw me lose more than half of my bros to a battle with orcs and all of the survivors to a battle with necrosavants Do we have a :thatsbattlebros: emote? 
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Oct 26, 2021 20:26
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I usually have my banner keep a whip for disarm which is still broken even after multiple nerfs. The banner is a solid weapon though and usually fine enough for any battle you need to actually bring it for. You usually only need it for undead and maybe some orc fights. I think technically the most dangerous regular fights in the game are high level chosen groups, but I actually hate orc warrior+warlord fights more because gently caress they're annoying now that you can't use indomitable and fight basically.
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Oct 26, 2021 20:57
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Genghis Cohen posted:Huh? By the nature of 2-tile reach weapons, a swordlance in the centre of your second line will almost always be within reach of 3 enemies. If you hire 5 hunters you'll nearly always find 3 or 4 good thrower/2h axe hybrids. You want your throwers throwing from 2 tiles away ideally (a few longer range shots as lines collide are just a bonus) treat them like a polearm but one that does a truckload more damage. You're absolutely fine with like 80 ratk and 70-75 matk. Fearsome wise, I actually like most of my team with it rather than a few high res guys trying to be fearsome deliverers. My baseline res target for everyone is mid 40s (and like 60s for tanks) so not super high but the sheer quantity of checks really does make a noticeable difference. I used to love swordlances too, but found I'm much happier being able to kill one or two guys right now than have 3 guys at half hp. Although it is fun to behead 3 raiders at once. Cast_No_Shadow fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 22:04
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Best thing to do with a Swordlance/Warscythe guy is sprinkle Overwhelm everywhere, which they are admittedly very good at. Mostly my Reach Dudes are just failed 2hander guys who didn't get enough MDef on level, though, so maybe I don't like them that much in general. Residual grudge. The existence of spear tossing death cannons mostly invalidates them, too, and those guys can also just grab a bow for some fights like lindwurms or whatever. Bleu fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Oct 28, 2021 |
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Oct 28, 2021 05:55
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I found an interesting Reddit thread with some slightly obscure tips My two favorite ones are 1) Net Alps. Breaking nets are melee based and Alps have no melee 2) if you dagger and enemy and the ground is covered in corpses for ages you won't get the armor drop since the body can't be spawned. Side question for folks, when choosing a Noble house to piss off an farm, which one to choose? Top, mid or low?
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Oct 29, 2021 06:14
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so it seems an update gave more frequent head money for taking caravans, but I still am almost never attacked. What gives? Does it scale with how powerful my party is vs the threat level, and if so, can I rely on never being attacked if my party is powerful and it's 1-2 skulls?
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Oct 29, 2021 07:14
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Donkringel posted:I found an interesting Reddit thread with some slightly obscure tips If you have noble war as your first crisis it doesn't really matter since they reset anyway. In other situations I try and find the most useless to me house. Usually smaller and long term not useful. I don't care about trade good but I do care about giving up things like the only hunters cabin on the map or the only weaponsmith etc. I also try not to anger someone that gives me good wilds access - that is great sell/resupply cities on the edge of the wilds.
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Oct 29, 2021 07:38
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 I'm starting to value Fast Adaptation a lot more cause this absolute motherfucker being able to tie up a swordmaster/blade dancer for like 6+ turns at very little risk has been incredibly valuable, and since putting FA on him at level 10 he seems to have a like 2/3rds chance on out-dueling them even tho he only has 72 matk  I was having trouble with nomad camps and tried to puzzle out why, and the conclusion I've come to is that priority targets in the south are priority targets to distract/CC, not to burst down. If my main frontline guys (A fencer, greatsword brawler, and hammer brawler, all level 16+ with 95+ matk) end up in melee with one everything goes much worse than if they can just focus on clearing out weaker enemies.Anyway Taps here has got 80 mdef with shield wall down and maxed out fatigue. His sword has -3 fatigue cost so his fatigue usage per turn is one higher than his natural regen, but of course he takes a little bit of fatigue damage from blocking/dodging constantly. The other roll on the sword is sadly a minimum bonus to armor damage. His resolve is lower than I'd like, but that's why I'm having him train up his anti-fear muscles in the arena.
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Nov 2, 2021 15:36
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Fast Adaptation has been underrated for a while but has really come into its own in my opinion with Blazing Deserts w/ the addition of nomads, gladiators and assassins/sword dancers with truly ludicrous MDef values but lower armor values than late game enemies from other factions. Swords and spears are also more acceptable to keep around beyond the early-mid game for the same reason - I used to phase both of these weapons out entirely - maybe one supertank with a spear but usually my tank bros get maces (with Fast Adaptation for 70+% chance to stun), but now I keep one sword guy in the line just for hunting high MDef targets. Also if you think an otherwise good bro isn't going to hit 80+ MAtk, you can take Fast Adaptation really early on and it makes a huge impact in the early game too.
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Nov 2, 2021 18:29
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Nomads are a huge bitch once they learn Dodge at day 40, but their weapons are usually pretty bad (only really exceptional ones are Polemaces and the Two-Handed Saif, and those guys aren't a big problem to prioritize from range), so taking FA just for the occasional Blade Dancer (or Swordmaster, or Gladiator, or Assassin...) is kinda ehh, probably. You're right, though, you're really looking to just put off fighting them until you've cleaned up the enemy line and you're not constantly dealing with Backstabber polemaces whacking at your 2-handers; otherwise you'll be Distracted half the time and do no damage anyway. Frankly, a bro who isn't going to hit 80 MAtt isn't going in my roster anyway, unless he's some kind of 3-star health 3-star MDef wildman megatank, in which case he's going to Shieldwall and/or Indomitable every turn, or maybe wing a net. MAtt's not usually the Problem Stat on most bros, there are lots of backgrounds that casually start in the 60s with MAtt. Bleu fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 20:29
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Bleu posted:Frankly, a bro who isn't going to hit 80 MAtt isn't going in my roster anyway, unless he's some kind of 3-star health 3-star MDef wildman megatank, in which case he's going to Shieldwall and/or Indomitable every turn, or maybe wing a net. I was gonna write about how overwhelm can easily be as valuable as shieldwalling on someone like the bro I posted since he's got 15 mdef over their matk without shieldwalling and the penalty from 2x overwhelm to a blade dancer would get them below his mdef as well, but apparently mdef has diminishing returns over values of 40??? What the heck I had no idea about that. Ironically this means 2 stacks of overwhelm on a blade dancer can still be equal to or greater in value than shieldwalling for an entirely different reason. Shieldwalling to bring mdef from 80 to 107 reduces the blade dancer's base chance to hit by 11 or so, while two stacks of overwhelm will reduce his chance to hit by 18. The diminishing returns also mean that methods of applying a single stack of overwhelm to a bunch of enemies is maybe way more valuable than I thought it was, cause an outlaw losing 6 matk can be the equivalent of adding 10+ mdef to a super high mdef character...
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Nov 3, 2021 23:50
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Count Uvula posted:I was gonna write about how overwhelm can easily be as valuable as shieldwalling on someone like the bro I posted since he's got 15 mdef over their matk without shieldwalling and the penalty from 2x overwhelm to a blade dancer would get them below his mdef as well, but apparently mdef has diminishing returns over values of 40??? What the heck I had no idea about that. 50 points, I think, but yeah, it gets halved because otherwise you would be able to pretty easily goose yourself into 5% hit chance against absolutely everything in the game with Shieldwall. It's still the god stat, to be honest... Overwhelm's OK on Nimble tanks who still actually have Initiative, though I'd still put it below Underdog, Colossus, and Indomitable for survivability. Forge tanks are probably going to go last every turn so it's not much value there. I still think it mostly belongs on two-hand sweeping weapons (with Reach Advantage, if it's a melee weapon) to get the real value, again ideally combined with some good Initiative.
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Nov 4, 2021 00:35
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Am I nuts or should I pick overwhelm on all my ranged bros? Because I'm just playing on normal, but so far it seems to work pretty well.
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Nov 4, 2021 03:11
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Bleu posted:50 points, I think, but yeah, it gets halved because otherwise you would be able to pretty easily goose yourself into 5% hit chance against absolutely everything in the game with Shieldwall. FWIW the wiki has this graph with a less linear formula but it seems to be from around the release of Beasts & Exploration: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/battlebrothers/images/f/f2/DRcomplete.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180124080943 Other parts of the wiki list it as halving each point over 50, and seem to be more recent. rojay posted:Am I nuts or should I pick overwhelm on all my ranged bros? Because I'm just playing on normal, but so far it seems to work pretty well. Depends on how your ranged bros are set up and it can become a wasted perk slot if they get manage to get brain damage. That said, yes overwhelm is very good.
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Nov 4, 2021 04:21
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One thing that I think should be clear in this discussion is that while you get less actual defense out of every point you put in MDEF over 50, it's still the single most important stat in the game. MDEF is also the stat where every point in it is more valuable than the previous one, so getting lower returns for points after 50 is kinda irrelevant, you absolutely still want to be taking those points.
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Nov 4, 2021 07:44
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rojay posted:Am I nuts or should I pick overwhelm on all my ranged bros? Because I'm just playing on normal, but so far it seems to work pretty well. It's okay, sometimes it works out really well to Overwhelm the poo poo out of priority targets (Ijirok is completely dumpstered by Overwhelm, or even just annoying chunky guys you can reliably outspeed, like Orc Warlords). It's nice on Gunners who get to cleave a bunch of guys, also. Combos well with stuff like Fearsome (that's why the Southern Gunners have both!). Bleu fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 19:54
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Overwhelm can also be great when an orc warrior sneaks into your backline. Sure it can do a ton of damage but it only has 5% to hit!
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Nov 5, 2021 00:25
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Donkringel posted:Overwhelm can also be great when an orc warrior sneaks into your backline. Sounds like "two assured head blows to the superarcher" to me 
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Nov 5, 2021 02:07
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ShootaBoy posted:Sounds like "two assured head blows to the superarcher" to me I was thinking the same thing. Next time Donkringel is in the situation he described, his merc captain will be collecting his lv11 archer's head off the ground once the dust settles, after it's been separated from his body!
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Nov 5, 2021 02:29
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Donkringel posted:Overwhelm can also be great when an orc warrior sneaks into your backline. You are all playing a much higher level game than I am. I'm just piddling along on normal settings and I honestly don't even know whether the malus from overwhelm is worth it. It just seems like a good idea to throw it on a dedicated archer, because hit or miss there's at least something happening. I shall go back to my corner with my dunce cap now.
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Nov 5, 2021 03:37
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rojay posted:You are all playing a much higher level game than I am. I'm just piddling along on normal settings and I honestly don't even know whether the malus from overwhelm is worth it. It just seems like a good idea to throw it on a dedicated archer, because hit or miss there's at least something happening. No, feel free to ask more questions. Just mention you are in an early-ish part of the game and we'll mention Ijirok less.
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Nov 5, 2021 04:11
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How long should my games usually last? What's fun about the late game? I have like 100 hours played in the game but I generally find myself getting bored around day 80-90ish at most. I feel like I have a solid grasp on all the mechanics but I've never bothered to finish a crisis, never spent a lot of time dicking around in the wilderness, etc. It all starts to feel grind-y to me. I'm sure I'm missing out on some fun stuff by not sticking with campaigns for another 70-100 turns, but I don't know what those things are.
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Nov 5, 2021 05:18
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Jamwad Hilder posted:How long should my games usually last? What's fun about the late game? I have like 100 hours played in the game but I generally find myself getting bored around day 80-90ish at most. I feel like I have a solid grasp on all the mechanics but I've never bothered to finish a crisis, never spent a lot of time dicking around in the wilderness, etc. It all starts to feel grind-y to me. I'm sure I'm missing out on some fun stuff by not sticking with campaigns for another 70-100 turns, but I don't know what those things are. The 'big' things are the special maps/legendary locations, the four crises, and dicking around with special builds and/or farming famed gear. It certainly is grindy, especially if you're fussy about seeds/early starts like I am. Took me a couple days to settle on the seed for my current Raiders game (admittedly Raiders have some considerations regarding "is the South even remotely habitable or am I just going to get hosed over by travel time"). Bleu fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Nov 5, 2021 |
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Nov 5, 2021 07:19
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rojay posted:You are all playing a much higher level game than I am. I'm just piddling along on normal settings and I honestly don't even know whether the malus from overwhelm is worth it. It just seems like a good idea to throw it on a dedicated archer, because hit or miss there's at least something happening. If it helps i got a solid 500 hours into this game without realising that 30mdef with a shield wasn't really gonna cut it.
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Nov 5, 2021 11:25
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Don't let the insane min maxers in the thread intimidate you, absolutely 0 of that nonsense is necessary to enjoy and beat battle brothers.
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Nov 5, 2021 14:26
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Jamwad Hilder posted:How long should my games usually last? Until you're bored. There's unique bosses you can optimise an endgame party for but it's grindy, you're not missing too much by skipping it really
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Nov 5, 2021 14:52
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Southpaugh posted:Don't let the insane min maxers in the thread intimidate you, absolutely 0 of that nonsense is necessary to enjoy and beat battle brothers. yeah, IMO the main thing you have to watch out for as a novice is getting stuck with subpar armor on everyone as the enemies scale up approaching the first crisis
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Nov 5, 2021 15:03
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