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It's almost like the legal industry is ripe for major disruption. https://www.newlawacademy.com/blog/legaltech-funding-soars-in-2021-as-vcs-and-law-firms-dive-in https://news.crunchbase.com/news/legal-tech-venture-investment/
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Nov 2, 2021 14:35
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merk posted:It's almost like the legal industry is ripe for major disruption. quote:Icertis, US$80M - Contract intelligence platform using AI to read and analyse legal documents i can't be the only person to read this and immediately think "we should get our corporate attorneys a copy of this to figure out what stuff we can sneak past it, and then put all of that stuff in our contracts"
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Nov 2, 2021 14:48
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evilweasel posted:i can't be the only person to read this and immediately think "we should get our corporate attorneys a copy of this to figure out what stuff we can sneak past it, and then put all of that stuff in our contracts" Take a Cyrillic keyboard, replace the Latin letters with identically looking Cyrillic letters ("о", "c", "a", "x", "p", capital "H", capital "K", capital "T", capital "B", lowercase "y"), problem solved Don't actually do this, I suspect that this will get you instantly disbarred in most jurisdictions and it's also a lovely thing to do
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Nov 2, 2021 14:57
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evilweasel posted:i can't be the only person to read this and immediately think "we should get our corporate attorneys a copy of this to figure out what stuff we can sneak past it, and then put all of that stuff in our contracts" There needs to be an automated timecard reader on the client side that analyzes and automatically rejects crappy time entries or time entries with hours entered that are out of bounds of expected value based on description. "6.0 - Reviewed documents" = rejected. Then, you sell the same software to law firms to automatically punch up time entries to make them better.
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Nov 2, 2021 15:03
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merk posted:There needs to be an automated timecard reader on the client side that analyzes and automatically rejects crappy time entries or time entries with hours entered that are out of bounds of expected value based on description. "6.0 - Reviewed documents" = rejected. there basically is for insurance companies. everyone on a case that uses them gets instructed on what triggers it (juniors should not use the word "strategy" for example) that said if you're reviewing documents, your time entry is going to be one massive block of reviewing documents
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Nov 2, 2021 15:04
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merk posted:It's almost like the legal industry is ripe for major disruption. Yeah about two years ago I went to an all day CLE on the use of AI in legal practice and then like a week later I applied to become a public defender Big part of that was "welp, I should probably get as much actual courtroom experience as I can, they can't make a robot stand up in a courtroom" evilweasel posted:
I've had weeks and weeks where I could have legitimately written "reviewing documents" for all of my time. Probably months somewhere in there.
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Nov 2, 2021 15:11
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Had he just not updated his billing rates since the turn of the century ? I don't think anyone makes alot of money in insurance defense.
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Nov 2, 2021 15:12
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah about two years ago I went to an all day CLE on the use of AI in legal practice and then like a week later I applied to become a public defender i am concerned someday companies are going to deploy an ai that goes "you there. your emails have been flagged as not realizing litigators might get to read them someday. we have banned you from sending emails that are not simply "hey x, can we have a call?" you dumbass"
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Nov 2, 2021 15:16
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evilweasel posted:i am concerned someday companies are going to deploy an ai that goes "you there. your emails have been flagged as not realizing litigators might get to read them someday. we have banned you from sending emails that are not simply "hey x, can we have a call?" you dumbass" No no it's fine I have a disclaimer in my signature
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Nov 2, 2021 15:25
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Phil Moscowitz posted:The arbitrary income difference is pretty wild. I used to work with a 70 year old lawyer who had done like 300 jury trials and was legitimately an expert trial attorney, and he would charge clients like $250 an hour because he was an insurance defense lawyer. Meanwhile at big firms some second year associate is billing $400/hr to read through 100 contracts and make a spreadsheet of their termination and assignment provisions. merk posted:There needs to be an automated timecard reader on the client side that analyzes and automatically rejects crappy time entries or time entries with hours entered that are out of bounds of expected value based on description. "6.0 - Reviewed documents" = rejected. gvibes fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Nov 2, 2021 |
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Nov 2, 2021 15:35
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Had he just not updated his billing rates since the turn of the century ? It’s a combination of a bunch of stuff. Part of it is doing run of the mill defense work for insurance companies which is pretty close to the most fungible civil practice there is, meaning the carriers are constantly pressuring to keep rates low and lawyers are undercutting each other all the time. Also he’s a genuinely nice guy, probably to a fault, and doesn’t really get involved in stuff outside the nuts and bolts practice. So when non-insurance clients hire him he quotes them rates similar to his insurance rates. Anyway, I don’t think anyone here is charging close to NYC biglaw rates. Even BSD partners in specialized practices at the big firms here charge like $500-$600 an hour, maybe $750 but I doubt it.
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Nov 2, 2021 15:57
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Pook Good Mook posted:Probably has a lot to do with the fact that everyone's classmates are making a broad range of money. If you graduate med school, you tend to make the same amount of money as your classmates, all things equal with specializations and the like. Meanwhile, in law school, if you're halfway socially competent, you have friends who are making $180,000 a year out of the box while you're making $60,000. Or less, for basically the same work It's also that, if you're not doing criminal law or family law, nearly all of your clients make more money than you (or they couldn't afford your rates) but you have to socialize with them at their expensive venues and listen to their stories of heli-skiing. And your friends who discuss their practices are either bragging about how much money they made (tons, so you're jealous, but they're lying about their lives) or complaining about how much money they made (not enough, so you're stressed about not making enough money).
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Nov 2, 2021 16:01
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Arcturas posted:It's also that, if you're not doing criminal law or family law, nearly all of your clients make more money than you (or they couldn't afford your rates) but you have to socialize with them at their expensive venues and listen to their stories of heli-skiing. And your friends who discuss their practices are either bragging about how much money they made (tons, so you're jealous, but they're lying about their lives) or complaining about how much money they made (not enough, so you're stressed about not making enough money). i would bet it's the criminal law and family law lawyers have much worse substance abuse issues than the working for the rich/corporations having your decisions be relevant to taking really important things away from specific people (liberty, family, property) is apparently quite...unpleasant. also for criminal law stuff i bet you have to deal with a lot of stuff you would really really rather not have in your head (regardless of which side you're on). in comparison to that, a corporate exec making more than me doesn't really bother me at all
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Nov 2, 2021 16:24
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evilweasel posted:i would bet it's the criminal law and family law lawyers have much worse substance abuse issues than the working for the rich/corporations I have never been more stressed or terrified in my life than when a jury was out on first degree murder for a client who I truly believed to be completely innocent. When it's out of your hands and there's nothing more you can do all you can think about is what might have gone wrong. I don't know what I would have done if they had come back guilty. And yeah, comparing that to "oh no partner x has a more exclusive shade of lambo than me" I don't have any problem seeing which one is more likely to lead to a drinking problem. We should all know more than anyone that being able to afford it is not something that addicts factor into their decision making.
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Nov 2, 2021 16:32
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Fair point, I didn't mean to say that criminal/family lawyers don't have stress and pressures that make addiction worse. Just that in the commercial space the income disparity in your social circle exists not just between classmates but between coworkers (assistants, paralegals, associates, partners) and clients as well.
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Nov 2, 2021 19:01
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evilweasel posted:i would bet it's the criminal law and family law lawyers have much worse substance abuse issues than the working for the rich/corporations I had a former colleague that interned for an asbestos defense firm, he said the people there generally didn't had an option other than the work they did, other than that they were generally "chill" people.
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Nov 2, 2021 19:07
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah about two years ago I went to an all day CLE on the use of AI in legal practice and then like a week later I applied to become a public defender 
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Nov 2, 2021 19:59
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Is this the thread for discussing the plausibility of a 'stop the steal' event in 2024, in which a number of states refuse to certify?
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Nov 3, 2021 17:12
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I know back in June I told you to ask the question in here if you wanted to talk about it with lawyers, but I think you’ll have more interaction in the legal questions thread if you want to talk about legalities if it, or in one of the political threads for political discussion. Here, we do chat about legal issues and cases, and politico-legal stuff that arises, but it’s mostly a politics-free zone.
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Nov 3, 2021 17:36
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While my father failed me in not stopping me from going to law school, his "no insurance defense" rule was a good one. Apparently in the 70s and 80s insurance defense was a good gig, which is interesting
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Nov 3, 2021 22:04
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nm posted:While my father failed me in not stopping me from going to law school, his "no insurance defense" rule was a good one. 1. No email 2. No online research 3. No computerized bill auditing 4. No 1/10 hour billing
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Nov 3, 2021 23:23
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nm posted:While my father failed me in not stopping me from going to law school, his "no insurance defense" rule was a good one. In the 70s and 80s, every law gig was a good gig. Firms would send invoices for a flat amount with no time entries that said 'for services rendered.' edit: As an aside, PR firms still do this today. I was working a data breach where the PR firm
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Nov 3, 2021 23:33
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Family law was never a good gig
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Nov 4, 2021 06:54
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nm posted:Family law was never a good gig Unless you are a messy bitch who loves drama and depression.
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Nov 4, 2021 06:56
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algebra testes posted:Unless you are a messy bitch who loves drama and depression. How dare you call me out publicly.
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Nov 4, 2021 10:13
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algebra testes posted:Unless you are a messy bitch who loves drama and depression. Insulting Grandma Party, in his own house?!
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Nov 4, 2021 15:41
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blarzgh posted:Insulting Grandma Party, in his own house?! She wishes she were this messy. Messier than Sab's underpants and more depressed than Blarzgh's testosterone levels.
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Nov 4, 2021 15:54
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Hey, enough of that now. None of this petty infighting. You're all equally pathetic. I eat pieces of poo poo like you for breakfast.
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Nov 4, 2021 18:05
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You eat pieces of poo poo for breakfast? Ew.
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Nov 4, 2021 19:28
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BigHead posted:You eat pieces of poo poo for breakfast? Ew. kinkshamer
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Nov 4, 2021 20:11
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GrandmaParty posted:more depressed than Blarzgh's testosterone levels. I'm Taking Supplements!
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Nov 4, 2021 20:15
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BigHead posted:You eat pieces of poo poo for breakfast? Ew. yea everyone knows poo poo is a dinner
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Nov 4, 2021 20:30
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Pook Good Mook posted:Probably has a lot to do with the fact that everyone's classmates are making a broad range of money. If you graduate med school, you tend to make the same amount of money as your classmates, all things equal with specializations and the like. Meanwhile, in law school, if you're halfway socially competent, you have friends who are making $180,000 a year out of the box while you're making $60,000. Or less, for basically the same work It's not the same work at all. The guys making $60,000 are almost always doing more work.
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Nov 5, 2021 00:02
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nutri_void posted:Take a Cyrillic keyboard, replace the Latin letters with identically looking Cyrillic letters ("о", "c", "a", "x", "p", capital "H", capital "K", capital "T", capital "B", lowercase "y"), problem solved Simply replace key words with images of that word
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Nov 5, 2021 00:05
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evilweasel posted:i can't be the only person to read this and immediately think "we should get our corporate attorneys a copy of this to figure out what stuff we can sneak past it, and then put all of that stuff in our contracts" "We are writing this electronic missive to inform you that Dewey, Cheatham and Howe will be representing the company known as DROP TABLE { PLAINTIFFS; DEFENDANTS; CLIENTS | CITATIONS; CASEFILES } [ ,...n ] [ ; ] or "Droptable INC" as it is also known".
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Nov 5, 2021 06:54
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nuthri_void posted:Take a Cyrillic keyboard, replace the Latin letters with identically looking Cyrillic letters ("о", "c", "a", "x", "p", capital "H", capital "K", capital "T", capital "B", lowercase "y"), problem solved Why, actually. Do you owe some ethical duty to a competing firm's AI? Surely protections in legal ethics only apply to humans and any internal processes or tools used inside the firm's systems are the user's responsibility?
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Nov 5, 2021 06:58
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I work with an AI contract review tool and have demoed several others. The tool itself will inevitably miss something whether due to a bad OCR, a scan of a contract from 1984, etc. It speeds up review immensely but it’s hardly a replacement for ya know, reading it.
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Nov 5, 2021 13:41
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Nice piece of fish posted:Hey, enough of that now. None of this petty infighting. Super happy about keeping my correspondences to emails and comments on contracts. The idea of having to interact with real ppl...gross...
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Nov 5, 2021 13:57
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Shageletic posted:Super happy about keeping my correspondences to emails and comments on contracts. The idea of having to interact with real ppl...gross... as a litigator: lol never write an email ever
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Nov 5, 2021 15:53
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*unless it’s to cover your rear end
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Nov 5, 2021 16:20
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