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It's bold as hell and I'm sure the initial implementations will have tons of jank, but I'm glad they're trying it. HOI style fronts would have been a "safe" but unsatisfying compromise. I think it's obvious they had hit a dead end in the design space with ordering individual units around. There are just so many military situations in the Victorian era that individual units can't even approximate without complex rules around attrition and domestic political consequences depending on where troops are from and where they're deployed.
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Nov 5, 2021 01:29
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Systems should be scaleable to the point where you enjoy playing even the worst nation in the game, the UK. Moving individual armies worked well for most nations, but it sucked for really big ones and really small ones (rip invading Russia). Imagine facing war on the homefront and a dozen colonial ventures and it -not- being a huge hassle of naval invasions and ferrying troops across the world individually. It acted like an attention tax that limited your diplomatic options, avoiding wars solely cause the micro would be a pain.
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Nov 5, 2021 01:53
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CharlestheHammer posted:Oh I wasn’t talking about me 
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Nov 5, 2021 03:39
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I am extremely okay with not needing to check every twenty seconds whether I need to rotate in the 82nd Fusiliers to relieve the 81st Fusiliers during some colonial bush war, or else risk Playing Suboptimally. Looking forward to the coming dev diaries to find out more about the details.
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Nov 5, 2021 04:14
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I loved everything I read in that dev diary, and I'm eagerly waiting for next week so I can try to get some idea of whether the concrete designs measure up to the outlined aspirations.
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Nov 5, 2021 05:04
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I didn't think they'd actually do it, but I'm excited to see how they make it work. I've never found moving armies around the map to be a particularly engaging part of Paradox games anyway, I've always found the nation-building (or in the case of CK, the characters) to be far more compelling. A different war system that's made for this era of world history is exactly what this game needed.
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Nov 5, 2021 05:46
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This feels like it could fit the diplomatic system very well since both it and the abstracted military system need to be able to evaluate the ability of a country to project power --- if you can't actually send more than 500 troops somewhere you probably shouldn't be able to threaten them into vassalization either, nor should you be able to send your entire army to South America from Poland without a considerable naval investment.
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Nov 5, 2021 06:00
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If naval warware includes named battleships thats all I need. Make combat a pure diceroll, fine, I just need to know that my navy has better names than the others.
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Nov 5, 2021 07:43
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Ardryn posted:I'd be shocked if there wasn't a purely cosmetic layer of formations ramming into each other and explosions along the frontlines. No little 3d boats and soldiers would mean no opportunity to add unique unit models as a feature in DLCs, so I feel like they'll probably add them as a cosmetic layer at least.
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Nov 5, 2021 07:47
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Every dev post about V3 makes it sound better and better. It's like Wiz reached into my brain and made it my dream game. I'm also kind of excited because what is being written shapes up to be a pretty good Cold War game with just a change in scenario. Even the Great Powers being a variable number (so you force it down to 2) is great, and abstract fronts that drain resources slowly is a pretty good way to model Guerilla warfare.
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Nov 5, 2021 08:10
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Echoing posts on having combat be transparent. Abstraction is fine so long as there’s visibility into battles, rolls. I want to see the body count of Antietam live, etc, to know how my preparation (technology, morale) is stacking up to the enemies in a satisfying way that can also help me learn what decisions to make next.
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Nov 5, 2021 08:34
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The technology level of European powers is going to be a big factor in colonial wars, think the Zulu's charging into a gun line. What'll be interesting is the level of control you can exert, because having a governor present with a small army probably isn't going to translate into a ton of resources unless you actively do a colonialism. What I'm really excited about is how the new war system impacts the American Civil War and also whether or not I can turn historically poor countries into world powers. I want to try this with Haiti or Brazil/Argentina.
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Nov 5, 2021 10:13
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It's going to be interesting to play a GSG where you can't just win every war based on better tactical prowess. Edit: They had to close the DD thread on the Paradox forums because it got too many posts too quickly  This is even more controversial than Hyperspacegate RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Nov 5, 2021 |
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Nov 5, 2021 10:40
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Like, they still have like three separate other games on the go where you get to order units about. If you're that enamoured of making pixel men walk from Norfolk to Kent, those game lines didn't go away. The point of having different games for different time periods is that you can represent the time periods better with different mechanics.
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Nov 5, 2021 10:49
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The new front system sounds great. Has the NATO counters crowd already complained about the possible lack of NATO counters on the map?
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Nov 5, 2021 10:53
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Gort posted:Like, they still have like three separate other games on the go where you get to order units about. If you're that enamoured of making pixel men walk from Norfolk to Kent, those game lines didn't go away. Yeah it's weird that some people just want 5 different versions of EU in different time periods but with the same gameplay (because warfare is fundamentally broken in favour of the player and the AI always loses, so the non-warfare parts of the game aren't actually that important)
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Nov 5, 2021 11:10
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chadbear posted:The new front system sounds great. Has the NATO counters crowd already complained about the possible lack of NATO counters on the map? I wonder what the most inappropriate use of NATO symbols in a wargame is. Has someone tried using them for the Battle of Megiddo in 1479 BC?
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Nov 5, 2021 11:27
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There have been cardboard ancients games that tried to use nato symbols.
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Nov 5, 2021 11:29
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Invent NATO symbols for the ancient past and the far future.
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Nov 5, 2021 11:30
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Honestly i'm pretty pro-nato symbols and wouldn't mind them being there for vicky 3 in whatever ui they use for allocating forces but we'll see.
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Nov 5, 2021 11:32
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RabidWeasel posted:Yeah it's weird that some people just want 5 different versions of EU in different time periods but with the same gameplay (because warfare is fundamentally broken in favour of the player and the AI always loses, so the non-warfare parts of the game aren't actually that important) Yeah, this change to fronts has been the first thing to get me really excited for V3, because all the complexity at the backend doesn't amount to much if you can use the same warfare tricks every time to break the game over your knee. Hell, if they do it right, this might be the first Paradox game where attrition actually works as intended rather than as a micro tax on the player and something they have to turn off for the A.I; and the mid/end game might present an actual challenge instead of just a mopping up of an A.I that cannot effectively oppose you.
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Nov 5, 2021 11:49
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Demiurge4 posted:The technology level of European powers is going to be a big factor in colonial wars, think the Zulu's charging into a gun line. What'll be interesting is the level of control you can exert, because having a governor present with a small army probably isn't going to translate into a ton of resources unless you actively do a colonialism. I hope there's an achievement for subjugating France as Haiti.
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Nov 5, 2021 12:36
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^^^^^ Now that would be appropriate reparations. Danann posted:Invent NATO symbols for the ancient past and the far future. Someone here on SA has sketched a "Horse Archer" counter once upon the time.
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Nov 5, 2021 13:42
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You could turn places like Haiti into GPs in the previous Vickys. I kinda want it to be harder. Doable, yes, but make me curse the great powers instead of ascending to their ranks by virtue of having good painters.
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Nov 5, 2021 14:00
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Vagabong posted:Yeah, this change to fronts has been the first thing to get me really excited for V3, because all the complexity at the backend doesn't amount to much if you can use the same warfare tricks every time to break the game over your knee. Hell, if they do it right, this might be the first Paradox game where attrition actually works as intended rather than as a micro tax on the player and something they have to turn off for the A.I; and the mid/end game might present an actual challenge instead of just a mopping up of an A.I that cannot effectively oppose you. hard agree one of the biggest problems i've had with Paradox games the last few years is the huge attention paid to customization and role-playing (the ever-expanding designers in HOI4, ship-designer and nation-building in Stellaris). I get what they're going for and I respect that they're giving each player the space to decide for themselves how they want to fight battles and play the game, but these systems drain a lot of attention of the player for very little gain. Two weeks after each new patch or DLC some hardworking redditor will have found the new optimal meta and after that these systems really are just fodder for suboptimal play (though fortunately the AI is bad enough that you can easily win even if you don't follow the optimal meta. Simultaneously, I don't think the AI is actually capable of making use of these systems, and might even lead to the AI failing, looking at you HoI4 with AI nations having dozens of interchangeable divisions). Moving a step back from this kind of meaningless decisionmaking towards a more macro decisionmaking process might just be what the doctor ordered. Feeling more and more excited for Vicky!
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Nov 5, 2021 14:17
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I wonder if these various drastic changes will affect which countries are the best "starters" for new players Like maybe Belgium will be way more tricky now on account of the ethnic and religious divide
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Nov 5, 2021 14:33
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ThaumPenguin posted:I wonder if these various drastic changes will affect which countries are the best "starters" for new players I was thinking this too. Feels like there might not be any countries where you can just kind of tick over and do your own thing; GPs are going to be getting pulled into stupid regional diplomatic disputes, and minor states are going to inevitably be getting diplomatically bullied by their neighbours
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Nov 5, 2021 16:07
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The most likely country to be the tutorial country would either be USA or Brazil. USA because they have extremely strong potential to be an industrial might and a world power; Brazil has the rubber monopoly and a lot of neighbors to practice war with.
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Nov 5, 2021 16:31
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Brazil was tutorial land in Vicky 2 and I suspect we'll be the one for it in Vicky 3 since it still has the relative isolation and the fact that its still the biggest country in south america
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Nov 5, 2021 16:51
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Agean90 posted:Brazil was tutorial land in Vicky 2 and I suspect we'll be the one for it in Vicky 3 since it still has the relative isolation and the fact that its still the biggest country in south america It does start out fighting two rebellions in Victoria 3 (that were ongoing in 1836 historically) so maybe not the best tutorial country.
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Nov 5, 2021 17:00
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Wiz posted:It does start out fighting two rebellions in Victoria 3 (that were ongoing in 1836 historically) so maybe not the best tutorial country. time for my fall back of the FRCA! Time to look a how it's doing in this time period!
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Nov 5, 2021 17:05
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Agean90 posted:Brazil was tutorial land in Vicky 2 and I suspect we'll be the one for it in Vicky 3 since it still has the relative isolation and the fact that its still the biggest country in south america tbqf a lot of the clusterfuck of the early empire wasn't present in V2 and/or happened before 1836, but Brazil definitely should be way tougher than it was, especially during the regency for Pedro II some of the poo poo that went down: - the Balaiada, a popular uprising in the state of Maranhão that took over several parts of the province that also supported more than three thousand fugitive slaves; - Sabinada, a liberal uprising in Salvador (former political center of Brazil), against the imperial government - the Malian Revolt, the greatest slave uprising in the history of Brazil, led by enslaved Muslims and some Yorubá followers that scared the gently caress outta people - the Farroupilha, or war of tatters, where the state of Rio Grande do Sul tried to separate from Brazil, influenced by the successes of Argentina and Uruguay during the Cisplatine War and more!
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Nov 5, 2021 17:06
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Wiz posted:It does start out fighting two rebellions in Victoria 3 (that were ongoing in 1836 historically) so maybe not the best tutorial country. jesus loving christ Wiz edit: completely beaten and anticipated, complete pro A+ move
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Nov 5, 2021 17:07
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im just gonna start as the ottomans like i do in every paradox game, nothing bad ever happens to those guys
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Nov 5, 2021 17:11
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Wiz posted:It does start out fighting two rebellions in Victoria 3 (that were ongoing in 1836 historically) so maybe not the best tutorial country. Based on the current plans for the game, which countries do you yourself think might turn out to be decent starters? Sweden maybe?
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Nov 5, 2021 17:16
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ThaumPenguin posted:Based on the current plans for the game, which countries do you yourself think might turn out to be decent starters? Sweden maybe? Sweden, Belgium, USA are probably the most solid newbie countries.
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Nov 5, 2021 17:24
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belgium is going to be a crash course on how to manage two militant nationalities and their interest groups into not destroying one another then you get the socialists and they band together to gently caress them up
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Nov 5, 2021 17:28
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Nov 5, 2021 17:53
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Wiz posted:Sweden, Belgium, USA are probably the most solid newbie countries. Good to know, that gives me plenty of time to overcome my crippling indecision 
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Nov 5, 2021 17:56
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Time is manay
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Nov 5, 2021 17:59
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