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I just finished it yesterday. Objectively I have to give it a thumb's up as a quality game, but subjectively it mostly failed to tickle my particular conception of metroid and left me kind of cold. Sort of thing where I would have rather they had just released a numbered series of shinespark challenges and a boss rush mode for all the good their world design and atmosphere did for me.
lurker2006 fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Nov 5, 2021 |
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Nov 5, 2021 03:49
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| # ? May 29, 2024 11:26 |
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Currently doing a 100% run and I had to look up the center Burenia shinespark puzzle. Did I miss something, does the game at any point signal that you can chain shinesparks?
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Nov 5, 2021 10:24
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forest spirit posted:I'm just poking my head into the thread because I was linked the Dunkey video review and wanted to listen to some reactions to the criticisms from people who have played the game much more than I have. He's right, the loading screens are absurd. They're so drat long! And when you have to rapidly go between areas... oy. There's also a 2-5s loading screen before a boss or miniboss so you know when you're gonna fight the little roly poly star wars 1 dudes! tuo posted:Currently doing a 100% run and I had to look up the center Burenia shinespark puzzle. Ah, you just gotta accidentally figure it out during gameplay or know a bunch of shinespark stuff (including things new to this game). It's possible the chaining is in the tutorial video I guess, but I can't check now. I never really bothered to actually hit the run button unless I knew I wanted to spark personally, so I never bothered experimenting with new stuff. Fusion/Zero Mission's mandatory run was kind of better in that way. Quotey fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Nov 5, 2021 |
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Nov 5, 2021 11:48
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tuo posted:Currently doing a 100% run and I had to look up the center Burenia shinespark puzzle. There's a loading screen tip that tells you how to do it, but since you mostly see loading screens when you die to a boss or an EMMI and the tips you see in those circumstances are suggestions for not dying, you might not ever see it.
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Nov 5, 2021 13:19
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I only ever saw non EMMI/Boss loading screens like, once when I was trying to see just how far I can make it into a cold section. And since I got it on digital the load times are shorter I'd assume so good luck seeing more than maybe 2 tips before it started.
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Nov 5, 2021 16:11
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I was thinking about it last night and I think the reason why Samus comes off so delightfully badass to me is 50% due to the presentation. Despite the fantastical aspects of some of her animations, It's not overemphasized with dramatic music or anything, she doesn't say "whooaa nelly!!", its more like she's got this matter-of-fact brutality. She's just getting the job done
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Nov 5, 2021 17:56
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Samus Aran does not have time for your bullshit (other M notwithstanding)
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Nov 5, 2021 18:00
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Finally got around to beating this a few days ago, and my final thoughts on Metroid Dread can be summarized by a post I made about Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon 2:W.T. Fits posted:It's a good game that I am bad at playing.
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Nov 5, 2021 19:00
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Watching that video detailing Other M’s localization changes posted a few pages back is a fascinating experience because some story stuff is now bad for completely different reasons. I am dying at the thought of the Varia Suit fiasco originally being Samus acting exceptionally salty at the mere suggestion she is weak that she blunders into extreme temperatures *on purpose to prove a point* and Adam literally has to yell at her to turn it on because he only just noticed this when she was about to fight a giant lava monster
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Nov 5, 2021 20:36
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teh_Broseph posted:I don't see the problem, the game even gives you video tutorials on how to use your new abilities to avoi- The game does tell you that an EMMI in chase mode will not be fooled by the Phantom Cloak. It doesn't think you're not there anymore just because you turned invisible. Phantom Cloak is useful for preventing the chase from starting (it's actually really effective in Ferenia's EMMI zone) but once a chase starts you're supposed to run, not hide.
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Nov 5, 2021 20:59
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I Am Just a Box posted:The game does tell you that an EMMI in chase mode will not be fooled by the Phantom Cloak. It doesn't think you're not there anymore just because you turned invisible. Phantom Cloak is useful for preventing the chase from starting (it's actually really effective in Ferenia's EMMI zone) but once a chase starts you're supposed to run, not hide. Yeah thanks for the heads up on that y'all, think I did the same thing on regular and hard runthrough and my dumb eyes with the EMMI zone screen effect didn't realize it had already seen me. And what's the deal with the ice one? I didn't figure that out either and also both runs at the same jump going up and right with the grapple blocks would just get frozen midair then get caught in the water trying to aim grapple shots to get out - was I getting hit by the purple circle thing it shoots through walls?
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Nov 5, 2021 21:56
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I Am Just a Box posted:The game does tell you that an EMMI in chase mode will not be fooled by the Phantom Cloak. It doesn't think you're not there anymore just because you turned invisible. Phantom Cloak is useful for preventing the chase from starting (it's actually really effective in Ferenia's EMMI zone) but once a chase starts you're supposed to run, not hide. Or in stealth game terms, it's like a cardboard box. Great when in normal mode, useless on alert or evasion
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Nov 5, 2021 22:21
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teh_Broseph posted:Yeah thanks for the heads up on that y'all, think I did the same thing on regular and hard runthrough and my dumb eyes with the EMMI zone screen effect didn't realize it had already seen me. And what's the deal with the ice one? I didn't figure that out either and also both runs at the same jump going up and right with the grapple blocks would just get frozen midair then get caught in the water trying to aim grapple shots to get out - was I getting hit by the purple circle thing it shoots through walls? I don't actually know what you typed there, but the Ice EMMI sends out a decent sized freeze pulse that stuns and deals damage over time when it spots you (it'll wear off and you can still make it away if you're far enough, and you still get a chance to parry). The Purple (Wave) EMMI shoots a purple pulse that stuns you when it sees you, and can see through walls. I'm not sure about the duration on that stun but it's not that bad to avoid most of the time.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:04
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Gotta admit, this a nice use of pixel art in recapping the old games https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY7CgzISBJk
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Nov 5, 2021 23:16
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Not a new insight, but core of emmis problem is this: Making a stealth game work requires a coherent focus on ways to make stealth fun, ways to fool enemies, ways to be caught, ways to escape. Making a stealth mechanic in a non stealth game fun requires just as much effort. When it's included it's either got to be so short as to be a set piece or developed to a whole satisfying gameplay loop. Emmis don't offer enough to be a game on their own, and way way way overstay their welcome for a set piece.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:27
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I don't get why people are treating the EMMI parts like it's 2D MGS/Splinter Cell or anything. The Cloak is a last ditch resort when you are cornered with an EMMI nearby, the first thing you should always try to do when you see an EMMI zone is map out a route and run through it as fast as you can.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:30
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Orange Crush Rush posted:I don't get why people are treating the EMMI parts like it's 2D MGS/Splinter Cell or anything. The Cloak is a last ditch resort when you are cornered with an EMMI nearby, the first thing you should always try to do when you see an EMMI zone is map out a route and run through it as fast as you can. That might be mechanically optimal, but I don't think it was the tone Nintendo was aiming to have. They were hoping for the alien isolation "I'm being hunted, please don't find me" vibe.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:35
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Orange Crush Rush posted:I don't get why people are treating the EMMI parts like it's 2D MGS/Splinter Cell or anything. The Cloak is a last ditch resort when you are cornered with an EMMI nearby, the first thing you should always try to do when you see an EMMI zone is map out a route and run through it as fast as you can. I think that’s kind of exactly what they wanted you to do actually. It doesn’t work but I do think that was the intent
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Nov 5, 2021 23:36
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ikanreed posted:That might be mechanically optimal, but I don't think it was the tone Nintendo was aiming to have. I think it's far more likely the game with exquisite movement wants you to use the exquisite movement to escape the EMMI and not the panic "oh god don't find me please" button.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:39
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CharlestheHammer posted:I think that’s kind of exactly what they wanted you to do actually. If that was the case would they have made the Cloak so limited then? With how fast it drains unless you stand still (which doesn't stop EMMI's from spotting you, especially if they heard you already), I really got the impression you were supposed to use it as little as possible. Also every trailer I've seen showing off EMMI's usually involved Samus running into a corner, turning on cloak and hiding until the EMMI gives up and then booking it out of there, which is what I did even on my first playthrough.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:40
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I think the game wants you to use the ability it gave you instead of this scenario where it was intentionally designed not to be used. But that’s just me I guess
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Nov 5, 2021 23:41
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Actually you'll find the ability is only useful for passing security doors.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:41
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CharlestheHammer posted:I think the game wants you to use the ability it gave you instead of this scenario where it was intentionally designed not to be used. Cloak also stops the EMMI from hearing you which is a big deal as well, because they use like bat sonar to track Samus, that's still being used as intended.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:44
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Orange Crush Rush posted:Cloak also stops the EMMI from hearing you which is a big deal as well, because they use like bat sonar to track Samus, that's still being used as intended. And that goes with the slow and hinted theme? If your just zipping through the stage you shouldn’t care if they see you or not. Because it doesn’t matter. You will be out of range way before it will matter
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Nov 5, 2021 23:48
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Hunted sure but where was anything ever said about Slow? Who plays a 2D Metroid, the game series infamous for rewarding players for beating it as fast as possible, and thinks "yeah this game wants me to take it nice and slow." Even in Fusion, most of the SA-X scenes where you just hauling rear end away from them as fast as you could. It's just everyone remembers that one part where it makes you hide, and if you hosed up it would drop a power bomb on your head and leave you wide open.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:52
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Orange Crush Rush posted:If that was the case would they have made the Cloak so limited then? With how fast it drains unless you stand still (which doesn't stop EMMI's from spotting you, especially if they heard you already), I really got the impression you were supposed to use it as little as possible. Also every trailer I've seen showing off EMMI's usually involved Samus running into a corner, turning on cloak and hiding until the EMMI gives up and then booking it out of there, which is what I did even on my first playthrough. As long as the EMMI isn't already in red chase mode, it can't sense you while cloaked, though it can blindly run into you without knowing you were there and "accidentally" kill you. I definitely don't think the gameplay design of the Phantom Cloak was as refined as most of the game, though. You're right that when you first receive it—which is when you try it out and form your first impression of it that lasts with you through the rest of the game—you can barely move any distance with it before you run out. As you progress through the game and collect energy tanks, though, the Phantom Cloak becomes way more viable for longer stretches of motion. Ferenia in particular implicitly encourages you to go through the EMMI zones entirely cloaked by placing energy recharge stations right outside the EMMI gates, and since an EMMI is an instant kill, draining your energy low in an EMMI zone only matters insofar as when you leave you need to kill a few enemies without getting hit. But a lot of players won't realize this because they already tried the Phantom Cloak when they got it (and when they barely had any energy tanks), and their experience showed them that it's barely viable except for standing still, so they didn't bother to use it again after that. The trailers really seem to speak to "developers don't approach playing their game the way players do." In playing myself and watching others play, I've barely seen anyone use the little morph ball hidey-holes. Most folks either book it in an improvised panicking hurry, keeping a distance ahead and trying different directions until they find a way forward, or use the Phantom Cloak aggressively or preemptively to pass by a nearby EMMI without being heard.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:40
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I Am Just a Box posted:The trailers really seem to speak to "developers don't approach playing their game the way players do." In playing myself and watching others play, I've barely seen anyone use the little morph ball hidey-holes. Most folks either book it in an improvised panicking hurry, keeping a distance ahead and trying different directions until they find a way forward, or use the Phantom Cloak aggressively or preemptively to pass by a nearby EMMI without being heard. Huh! I did it the "dev way" but bad I guess. Hid in the little morphholes or spiderwalls when I didn't think I could get out or didn't know where I wanted to go. The issue was that they sometimes just didn't actually gently caress off a decent enough distance. The worst part was the Purple/Wave EMMI though... the underwater stuff really sucked against it tbh. I think if they had left the area once you stealthed against them, or went to further away spots it would be nice- but often they'd just patrol right back into you when you thought you could start moving. In my hard playthrough I just booked it, and also got grav before Wave EMMI (actually, I was at the last area before wave EMMI and saw the Wave gate and was like... oh. guess I forgot that). I could have hidden once I got caught and didn't think I'd make it, but instead I just tried to parry once they caught me and reloaded, which feels like a shame. I did get my first ever second attempt parry though, and I can 50/50 first tries.
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Nov 6, 2021 01:26
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CharlestheHammer posted:I think the game wants you to use the ability it gave you instead of this scenario where it was intentionally designed not to be used. Having an ability doesn't mean that ability is optimal for every situation. The cloak is A) Specifically introduced after you've already encounter EMMIs and are given a gameplay-focused tutorial on running away and B) Is slow and reduces your movement. Even the cutscenes show it as a brief "don't look here" thing and not Samus's optimal method of movement.
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Nov 6, 2021 01:50
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ImpAtom posted:Having an ability doesn't mean that ability is optimal for every situation. The cloak is A) Specifically introduced after you've already encounter EMMIs and are given a gameplay-focused tutorial on running away and B) Is slow and reduces your movement. Even the cutscenes show it as a brief "don't look here" thing and not Samus's optimal method of movement. not to mention the very clearly designed hidey-spots like the little morph ball-sized holes in the walls and such where you get a perfect opportunity to stop for a moment and throw on the cloak before the emmi leaves and you can hoof it the rest of the way
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Nov 6, 2021 01:55
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WHY BONER NOW posted:I was thinking about it last night and I think the reason why Samus comes off so delightfully badass to me is 50% due to the presentation. Despite the fantastical aspects of some of her animations, It's not overemphasized with dramatic music or anything, she doesn't say "whooaa nelly!!", its more like she's got this matter-of-fact brutality. She's just getting the job done I dunno if it was meant in this way, but with the animations she has during the cutscenes, it would totally make sense why people would assume she was a cyborg or robot, with all the quick snaps, no look turns, and perfectly still aiming I think that was only relevant lore for, like, the instruction manual from the original game, but I still thought it was cool
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Nov 6, 2021 08:28
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ImpAtom posted:Having an ability doesn't mean that ability is optimal for every situation. The cloak is A) Specifically introduced after you've already encounter EMMIs and are given a gameplay-focused tutorial on running away and B) Is slow and reduces your movement. Even the cutscenes show it as a brief "don't look here" thing and not Samus's optimal method of movement. But the discussion is if the hide and seek method was intentional which yes it would be. If your running and gunning (the alternative suggested) you wouldn’t stop to use the cloak as it doesn’t help that strategy at all
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Nov 6, 2021 09:54
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CharlestheHammer posted:But the discussion is if the hide and seek method was intentional which yes it would be. If your running and gunning (the alternative suggested) you wouldn’t stop to use the cloak as it doesn’t help that strategy at all there's a time and place, y'know
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Nov 6, 2021 10:33
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lurker2006 posted:I just finished it yesterday. Objectively I have to give it a thumb's up as a quality game, but subjectively it mostly failed to tickle my particular conception of metroid and left me kind of cold. Sort of thing where I would have rather they had just released a numbered series of shinespark challenges and a boss rush mode for all the good their world design and atmosphere did for me. While I found myself appreciating what the game is doing in replays, I think this is where I stand too. Metroid Dread clearly has a lot of work put into its game and combat design, the boss fights are fun, but I saw someone describe it as a "tech demo" and I can't help shake that feeling off. The music is forgettable, none of the areas really stand out on their own (burenia may be an exception, but I'm being nice), and I never really felt that "dread" (or at the very least, isolation) that the title screen promised. Maybe I'm just getting old.
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Nov 6, 2021 17:06
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Interesting to see you guys describe it as a tech demo, because you can easily say Samus Returns was a tech demo for Dread. I loved Samus Returns but I'd say it's pretty irrefutable that Dread is a big improvement on it. Hopefully Mercury Steam gets to do another iteration on their formula, I'd love to see what they do next
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Nov 6, 2021 17:21
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I don’t really feel like you can say it’s a tech demo. You can say the back half was rushed with the copy pasted bosses but tech demo? No way.
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Nov 6, 2021 17:27
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CharlestheHammer posted:But the discussion is if the hide and seek method was intentional which yes it would be. If your running and gunning (the alternative suggested) you wouldn’t stop to use the cloak as it doesn’t help that strategy at all Yes it does? The cloak is only effective if you break the EMMI's line of sight. You do this by running away. If you break its line of sight then you have options to use the cloak to avoid it in case you need to double back. Like it isn't one or the other. "You are supposed to run away from EMMIs but if you run into a situation where you're going the wrong way/need to double back then breaking the Line of Sight means you can use the cloak to throw the EMMI off and change your pathing." The cloak both allows you to hide long enough for it to run past or to hide your footsteps so you can start moving in another direction without instantly alerting it. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 17:33
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Killing Kraid with bombs is fun and all, but completely skipping the space jump in favor of wall jumps and speed booster tricks is super cool. Feels like I’ve escaped from what the game wants me to do. I’ve managed to not get ADAM messages upon finding new network rooms. I dig how Escue is a PITA the normal way so they put in two different shortcuts, shinespark and early screw attack.
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Nov 6, 2021 17:35
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ImpAtom posted:Yes it does? Why would you double back? There is no point to that. Those rooms are hilariously linear
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Nov 6, 2021 17:46
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WHY BONER NOW posted:Interesting to see you guys describe it as a tech demo, because you can easily say Samus Returns was a tech demo for Dread. I loved Samus Returns but I'd say it's pretty irrefutable that Dread is a big improvement on it. Hopefully Mercury Steam gets to do another iteration on their formula, I'd love to see what they do next CharlestheHammer posted:I don’t really feel like you can say it’s a tech demo. I don't mean tech demo literally. It's more of the overall vibe. The mechanics are all there, but I feel a lot of the personality/atmosphere I expect from a Metroid title is missing. For example: ZDR doesn't feel like a planet the way zebes, sr388, or tallon iv do. I don't really feel like I'm exploring a space like I would in those planets. ZDR feels more of a station like the one in Fusion, which is fine if that's what they wanted to do (and Mercury Steam clearly love Fusion), but it creates a significant disconnect for me as a player. I understand this is mostly a subjective thing though; it's just been interesting to see so much praise for Dread when I'm left thinking it was good, but not mind-blowing. I agree that Dread is a huge improvement over Samus Returns. I left that game feeling the same way I do with Dread - the potential is there, but I don't think it's been fully realized and I'm curious to see how (or if) the next title gets closer. Maybe it won't and the Metroid Series' identity will slowly turn into a different thing, that's fine too.
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Nov 6, 2021 18:01
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| # ? May 29, 2024 11:26 |
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It feels exactly like other metriods Like I guess the Emmis don’t work but failed mechanics don’t really change anything. You explore mostly kind of bland 2D environments for power ups to progress. Not a terribly easy thing to botch really
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Nov 6, 2021 18:06
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