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Ghanima lucked out lol, despite being as evil and crazy as Leto she ended up living a pleasant normal life with Faradn the most balanced and reasonable person in the entire series
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Nov 5, 2021 21:00
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Also, doesn't Leto II marry Ghanima to prevent anyone else from getting any claim to the throne?
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Nov 5, 2021 21:00
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It’s a dynastic marriage yeah
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Nov 5, 2021 21:26
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euphronius posted:It’s a dynastic marriage yeah Well. Sort of More like an anti dynastic marriage really since the point is that instead of there ever being an heir to the Tyrant’s throne there will instead be 150 generations of descendants for him to command to gently caress one another (and sometimes Duncan)
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Nov 5, 2021 21:34
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Earwicker posted:i have been wondering, since dune has had a dedicated culty fanbase for many decades, a large percentage of which is nerdy engineering/science types: It's not thermodynamically possible. You cool by evaporation of sweat ("near-normal evaporation process"), and that heat absorbed in evaporation is just returned as soon as the suit recondenses it into drinkable water. They handwave that away with "heat exchange filaments", but where's the heat going? The only place it can be going is into the suit. You can't dump heat conductively into the hot desert sands, and there are no enormous radiators to get rid of the heat that way. So you're still in a 150F desert, but you're wrapped in a black garbage bag. You're going to die.
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Nov 5, 2021 21:51
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No I'm not gently caress you dad *does more space shrooms in the desert*
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Nov 5, 2021 22:17
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Phanatic posted:It's not thermodynamically possible. You cool by evaporation of sweat ("near-normal evaporation process"), and that heat absorbed in evaporation is just returned as soon as the suit recondenses it into drinkable water. They handwave that away with "heat exchange filaments", but where's the heat going? The only place it can be going is into the suit. You can't dump heat conductively into the hot desert sands, and there are no enormous radiators to get rid of the heat that way. i don't remember, does Herbert actually ever describe what a stillsuit looks like cause I thought the black catsuit was a Lynch invention. Gimme a Dune adaptation where the Fremen are all running around knifing each other in 50ft trailing gowns of radiating lamé A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Nov 5, 2021 |
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Nov 5, 2021 22:33
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So what's the consensus on the Baron's creepy 'pet' creature? Is it Wanna? I'm inclined to believe it is, otherwise it's a pretty gratuitous thing to include, even for a director like Villeneuve. Yueh's line about "taking her apart like a doll" is pretty suggestive, too. That's another character I'm simultaneously disappointed we didn't see more of - because he was pretty drat excellent in the role and his exchange with Leto over the tooth was excellent - and glad they didn't elaborate more on - because the whole 'suk conditioning' thing makes his betrayal kind of convoluted. Did anyone else feel there was a bit of a musical nod to Toto's soundtrack from the 1984 film? I think it's right around when Jessica and Paul first escape and find themselves looking outwards into the desert, there's a melodic motif that strongly reminds me of the old theme music.
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Nov 5, 2021 22:56
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I don't think it's Wanna but I do think it's not meant to be clear I think it's actually much more disturbing if it IS her. It could just be a mutant pet or whatever (we know it's not)
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Nov 5, 2021 23:01
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Yeah, I think the idea is to set you up to think, later, "Was that his wife?" when Yueh talks about Wanna.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:03
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I don't think its Wanna; I think its a set piece to establish that the harkonenns aren't human, they're BRUTAL and to add credence to Yueh betraying them.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:08
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Mohaim would have reacted differently if it was a BG
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Nov 5, 2021 23:11
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It doesn’t matter if it’s literally Wanna or not, the point is that you understand what the Harkonnens will do to people who are under their power. Since they don’t really talk about Halleck’s or Duncan’s experience with them and the Fremen seem to be doing fine against them (as cheesed off as they are about it), it’s important to have some kind of gratuitous demonstration of their awfulness. The spider woman is essentially the heart plug twink the Baron whacks right before his motor oil shower in Lynch Dune
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Nov 5, 2021 23:13
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skasion posted:It doesn’t matter if it’s literally Wanna or not, the point is that you understand what the Harkonnens will do to people who are under their power. Since they don’t really talk about Halleck’s or Duncan’s experience with them and the Fremen seem to be doing fine against them (as cheesed off as they are about it), it’s important to have some kind of gratuitous demonstration of their awfulness. The spider woman is essentially the heart plug twink the Baron whacks right before his motor oil shower in Lynch Dune Pretty much this. The spider pet thingie was just an aesthetic choice for exhibiting the Harkonnens and nothing more.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:15
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I am watching the miniseries. Its much better then it`s reputation. For what it is, a 20 old tv serie with very limited budget it is actually very good when you ignore the lovely combat scenes. People complain about the costumes. But for the noble/elite character its very fitting that they are wearing very colorful and impractical clothes (expect for the Astreides). Thats a very important way to signify class in a feudal society. Only clear miss in the costume department is reverend mother gaius mohaim`s getup and the Harkonnen troops. Ian Mcneice`s take on the Baron was honestly superior to the films. Its a very nice contrast to Dune part 1. More colorful but less spectacular, better at worldbuilding but far inferior at building up the mood and just less exciting overall. Paul`s prophetic visions were better in the miniseries as well.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:26
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skasion posted:It doesn’t matter if it’s literally Wanna or not, the point is that you understand what the Harkonnens will do to people who are under their power. Since they don’t really talk about Halleck’s or Duncan’s experience with them and the Fremen seem to be doing fine against them (as cheesed off as they are about it), it’s important to have some kind of gratuitous demonstration of their awfulness. The spider woman is essentially the heart plug twink the Baron whacks right before his motor oil shower in Lynch Dune The other point of the moment is that the Baron and Piter lie to Mohiam's face about it and she instantly catches them out. It the single moment in the entire film that establishes that the Emperor and the Harkonnen don't actually like each other and are not honest or trustworthy allies and that their plot against the Atreides is transactional, which is groundwork for film 2.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:36
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Mister Speaker posted:So what's the consensus on the Baron's creepy 'pet' creature? Is it Wanna? I'm inclined to believe it is, otherwise it's a pretty gratuitous thing to include, even for a director like Villeneuve. Yueh's line about "taking her apart like a doll" is pretty suggestive, too. That's another character I'm simultaneously disappointed we didn't see more of - because he was pretty drat excellent in the role and his exchange with Leto over the tooth was excellent - and glad they didn't elaborate more on - because the whole 'suk conditioning' thing makes his betrayal kind of convoluted. quite a bit of stuff that was cut was actually superfluous, like the sardaukar in harkonnen uniforms (which everyone instantly realised) or the unbreaskable suk conditioning (which was broken without any problems)
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Nov 5, 2021 23:41
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An awful lot of Dune is people thinking things can't happen and then the things happen.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:13
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Tree Bucket posted:An awful lot of Dune is people thinking things can't happen and then the things happen. Alternatively "I know this is definitely a trap but I can't see exactly how it's a trap so I'm going to do nothing and watch how things play out" or "I know this is a trap and I see the exact nature of the trap, but I am literally too horny not to fall into the trap"
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Nov 6, 2021 00:20
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I thought the movie did a good job showing Duke Leto knowing it’s a trap and trying to get out of it before realizing he ran out of time
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Nov 6, 2021 00:21
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I mean one of his first scenes is in a grave yard
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Nov 6, 2021 00:22
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The central image of Dune is an animal caught in a trap
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Nov 6, 2021 00:24
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That scene with the Herald is fantastic
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Nov 6, 2021 00:38
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After rewatching the movie a few times at home on HBO I still really like it, but man I wish they had more extras in it. Like, Ben-Hur numbers of extras, just a human sea for scenes. If there was a movie that needs it, it's Dune.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:49
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Mister Speaker posted:So what's the consensus on the Baron's creepy 'pet' creature? Is it Wanna? I'm inclined to believe it is, otherwise it's a pretty gratuitous thing to include, even for a director like Villeneuve. Yueh's line about "taking her apart like a doll" is pretty suggestive, too. That's another character I'm simultaneously disappointed we didn't see more of - because he was pretty drat excellent in the role and his exchange with Leto over the tooth was excellent - and glad they didn't elaborate more on - because the whole 'suk conditioning' thing makes his betrayal kind of convoluted. My take is that whatever it is, I'm glad they didn't explain it at all 
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Nov 6, 2021 02:04
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I like how the Harkkonens had a literal 'cone of silence'. Kinda want a mutant spider thing to just creep about on the ceiling and glare at my political rivals with its eyeless face.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:23
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Phanatic posted:It's not thermodynamically possible. You cool by evaporation of sweat ("near-normal evaporation process"), and that heat absorbed in evaporation is just returned as soon as the suit recondenses it into drinkable water. They handwave that away with "heat exchange filaments", but where's the heat going? The only place it can be going is into the suit. You can't dump heat conductively into the hot desert sands, and there are no enormous radiators to get rid of the heat that way. There's a very brief line about pumps in the heels which I always took to imply some kind of refrigeration compressor loop, but that would just make you work even harder and sweat more (like walking around everywhere on your own built-in stairmaster). And even then I don't know if it's thermodynamically possible, you have to expend X+Y amount of energy just to remove X amount of heat energy due to imperfect efficiency, on top of whatever other heat your body is producing.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:26
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Does Miles Teg pronounce his name like "Miles O'Brien" or "Miles Gloriosus"
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Nov 6, 2021 02:28
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Jewmanji posted:
The scene at the very beginning where his digi-textbook is teaching him about Arrakis is a masterful piece of editing, getting the mood just right, transitioning into the Herald ship, etc. It's so subtle that on my first watch in the theater the content of it just totally went over my head. It establishes a ton of poo poo in a very short time and definitely doesn't stop to ask the viewer if they got all that. It's great. Might be one of my favorite parts. Mozi posted:it took me until the third viewing to get that the duke being able to fly the 'thopter so well was setup when he said he wanted to be a pilot earlier It's all in the details! The Bloop posted:I don't think it's Wanna but I do think it's not meant to be clear Yeah, this. Although....*shudder*...it does indeed obey The Voice
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Nov 6, 2021 02:32
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You gotta kinda know someone to use the voice on them. At least enough to know what they'll respond to. It's at least someone RM GHM knew. Or she's good enough to voice a monster with no preamble.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:38
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Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:You gotta kinda know someone to use the voice on them. At least enough to know what they'll respond to. Not really? Paul and Jessica are both able to command the Harkonnen drones on the ornithopter.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:47
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Anything socialized in faufreluches system would probably be susceptible to Voice
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Nov 6, 2021 02:53
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Mister Speaker posted:So what's the consensus on the Baron's creepy 'pet' creature? Is it Wanna? here's my take: imagine a movie as a bundle of interwoven threads. these threads are either resolved or left hanging. yueh's wife and the spider monster are two of these hanging threads. they may not necessarily connect to each other, but the absence of connection to other plot elements invites the audience to tie them together, to make a nice neat little plot knot. there's nothing concrete to suggest a direct connection, but there's also nothing to suggest there isn't a direct connection. given the competency of the direction and writing, it's unlikely this is a mere oversight, therefore it's safe to conclude that the ambiguity itself is the point. It's Schrodinger's plot thread; "the spider monster is wanna" and "the spider monster is not wanna" are both correct. efb, basically
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Nov 6, 2021 03:22
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As creepy as the spider thing was, it's no heartplugs. That poo poo's gonna stick with me the rest of my life.
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Nov 6, 2021 03:24
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I found the spider much more unsettling after it was pointed out to me that Villaneuve apparently had a scene in a previous movie where spiders were used in sex. (I can't say I'm eager to verify.) So it's not just a spider monster pet. It's a sex spider monster pet.
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Nov 6, 2021 03:30
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I'm firmly on team "No reason to believe it's Wanna". The only thing tying them together is the theme of Harkonnens doing hosed up things to people, but that's expressed in a myriad of other ways as well. To use a phrase someone said earlier in the thread, it's Star Wars EU levels of interconnection to assume they're the same, along the lines of "this random space hamster on Jabba's barge was actually Luke's childhood pet and also force sensitive which was a critical factor in stealing the death star plans". Sometimes a freaky spider gimp is just a freaky spider gimp.Mister Speaker posted:Not really? Paul and Jessica are both able to command the Harkonnen drones on the ornithopter. In the book, that scene mentions that she still has to listen to the guards for a little while in order to "register" them to be able to use the Voice. The movie doesn't really include that aspect, so it's not necessarily a plot hole, just an adaptational difference.
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Nov 6, 2021 03:34
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Smeef posted:I found the spider much more unsettling after it was pointed out to me that Villaneuve apparently had a scene in a previous movie where spiders were used in sex. (I can't say I'm eager to verify.) So it's not just a spider monster pet. It's a sex spider monster pet. The Enemy spider is woman as mother. Enemy was secretly the adaptation of Chapterhouse Dune
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Nov 6, 2021 03:37
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Phanatic posted:It's not thermodynamically possible. You cool by evaporation of sweat ("near-normal evaporation process"), and that heat absorbed in evaporation is just returned as soon as the suit recondenses it into drinkable water. They handwave that away with "heat exchange filaments", but where's the heat going? The only place it can be going is into the suit. You can't dump heat conductively into the hot desert sands, and there are no enormous radiators to get rid of the heat that way. In the books the Fremen only travel by night for exactly this reason. There's no way to survive high noon on Arrakis, period. Unless you're a worm(man) of course.
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Nov 6, 2021 05:06
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I don't think the spider is Wanna. That would require some outside help. In that vein, I suggest the creature is a nod to the Tleilaxu, who don't appear in the first book. Besides, Helen Mohiam would have taken that as an insult, no matter how complicit she may have been in Wanna's fate. sebmojo posted:That scene with the Herald is fantastic It was very well done. It's one of the best scenes in the movie, of which there are several. Halloween Jack posted:"Miles Gloriosus" Make way make way I shall not be delayed There's lax to kill and blood to spill And matres to be flayed sorry
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Nov 6, 2021 05:15
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Wingnut Ninja posted:There's a very brief line about pumps in the heels which I always took to imply some kind of refrigeration compressor loop, but that would just make you work even harder and sweat more (like walking around everywhere on your own built-in stairmaster). And even then I don't know if it's thermodynamically possible, you have to expend X+Y amount of energy just to remove X amount of heat energy due to imperfect efficiency, on top of whatever other heat your body is producing. IIRC in Children of Dune, when Leto II's heel pumps leak, the effect is that it depletes his water supply, so I assume the pumps recirculate your sweat, urine, and feces through filters.
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Nov 6, 2021 05:16
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