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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:If they accept a statement for their vote then its not a great look or bargain Yeah, I don't know how you can look back at the past 20+ years and think "Yeah, this verbal agreement will totally hold."
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Nov 6, 2021 00:46
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Josef bugman posted:As has been pointed out elsewhere, those things can also be crimes.txt for certain folks. "pics or it didn't happen" of others' activism is a really childish attempt at a power move. "Admit before the court of somethingawful that you advocate violence and terrorism" is even dumber. Constantly edging up to the line of advocating violence and then acting like you don't know what anyone is talking about when called out is even dumber yet. "I can't admit to activism on somethingawful or I'll be arrested!" is just altogether melodramatically self-important. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PeykaclVaA I don't really hold anyone to any standard of "did they walk the walk or not" because we all have our private concerns and that's not really the litmus test for whether you win at debate club in the holy USNews thread, center of the great political thinkers of our time.
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Nov 6, 2021 01:00
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The progressive caucus is forming a national assembly to stop the Jeffersonian planters
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Nov 6, 2021 01:36
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Even if there's a cave by the Progressives, maybe it's as far as it can go. The Dems aren't going to arm twist the moderates/centrists.
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Nov 6, 2021 01:43
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Remember when New York seemed to be on the cusp of passing some voting reform that would lock in absentee ballots, same-day registration, gerrymandering protection, and a few other things? Turns out it didn't happen because Republicans campaigned hard against it, but only upstate, so the Democratic strategists and leaders in NYC didn't notice.quote:A report from Ad Impact, a data analytics firm that tracks political spending, which captures only the media ad buys, shows the NYS Conservative party spent more than $2 million in markets outside New York City, where ad time is also cheaper, compared to just half a million dollars in the city and its vicinity. NY is still safely blue since nothing changed, but there's a lot of egg on a lot of faces here. Thanks to procedural bullshit the next shot at this is in 2023. haveblue fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 01:57
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CNN says they're voting on the infrastructure bill in the house in 30-60 minutes? Did the progressive caucus cave?
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Nov 6, 2021 02:02
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I don't understand what Pelosi is doing. She's essentially allowing 6 lovely moderates to foul everything up and siding with them rather than the much larger contingent of Progressives who have been the ones supporting Biden's agenda the whole time. Now the WH is trying to pressure the Progressives to cave, which is ludicrous.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:03
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FlamingLiberal posted:I don't understand what Pelosi is doing. She's essentially allowing 6 lovely moderates to foul everything up and siding with them rather than the much larger contingent of Progressives who have been the ones supporting Biden's agenda the whole time. Now the WH is trying to pressure the Progressives to cave, which is ludicrous. Why would people who preach regularly on how much they love Republicans side with progressives?
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Nov 6, 2021 02:09
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FlamingLiberal posted:I don't understand what Pelosi is doing. She's essentially allowing 6 lovely moderates to foul everything up and siding with them rather than the much larger contingent of Progressives who have been the ones supporting Biden's agenda the whole time. Now the WH is trying to pressure the Progressives to cave, which is ludicrous. I don't get the sudden turn either. But I'm pretty pessimistic about it; I don't think that she would be putting it to a vote by itself if she didn't have good reason to think it's going to pass. Maybe the heightened pressure got some of the progressives to cave and she believes she can count on enough Republican votes to make up for the rest?
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Nov 6, 2021 02:11
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FlamingLiberal posted:I don't understand what Pelosi is doing. She's essentially allowing 6 lovely moderates to foul everything up and siding with them rather than the much larger contingent of Progressives who have been the ones supporting Biden's agenda the whole time. Now the WH is trying to pressure the Progressives to cave, which is ludicrous. I'm not even American, yet even I understand at this point that the Democratic party doesn't give a gently caress about progressives. It's simply a matter of tolerating them being part of it, to a degree. It is so loving self-evident.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:12
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FlamingLiberal posted:I don't understand what Pelosi is doing. She's essentially allowing 6 lovely moderates to foul everything up and siding with them rather than the much larger contingent of Progressives who have been the ones supporting Biden's agenda the whole time. Now the WH is trying to pressure the Progressives to cave, which is ludicrous. It makes perfect sense once you realize Pelosi fully agrees with and supports the moderates.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:13
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Damnit https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1456791933951647745 https://twitter.com/heatherscope/status/1456785622123827201 Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 02:15
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Atahualpa posted:I don't get the sudden turn either. But I'm pretty pessimistic about it; I don't think that she would be putting it to a vote by itself if she didn't have good reason to think it's going to pass. Maybe the heightened pressure got some of the progressives to cave and she believes she can count on enough Republican votes to make up for the rest? It could be that, or it could be that the whole "Pelosi talking to Senate holdouts" story from earlier in the week basically was her saying "look, we need you to pass the reconciliation bill or no one gets anything" and the vote now is just her showing the body so they hurry up and get a move on
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Nov 6, 2021 02:15
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Nucleic Acids posted:It makes perfect sense once you realize Pelosi fully agrees with and supports the moderates.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:15
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I mean, if Gottheimer and Jayapal are talking face to face, this is it. You don't go one-on-one until its the final hour. She has not hosed around on this even once, so she's not just going to take a handshake and My Word Is My Bond. If he has anything that she can believe, he'll offer it, and then it'll be down to if she thinks she can trust him or not. Either she'll decide she believes him, or she'll decide she can't and we'll get to see just how much she has her caucus united. Politics doesn't get more high stakes than this. These are the moments when you find out what the people you elected are made of, one way or the other.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:21
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Here's a take nobody is going to like but I ain't wrong. Manchin and Sinema and the moderates are just poo poo enough to not care if they gently caress both bills. They'll stall till the midterms and frame it as the progressives fault and not give a solitary gently caress. this the progressives and the president getting a potato in the hopes of getting SOMETHING as a win because those motherfuckers just do not care if it all burns down.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:22
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Al-Saqr posted:MSNBC is literally playing out the entirety of Colin Powells funeral lol what a demon evil country After the humiliating electoral showing the Democrats had this week and the source for the Steele Dossier being arrested for lying to the FBI about it, the pathetic hacks at MSNBC are surely desperate to cover something, anything else, and Powell was mildly critical of Trump once, so he’s perfect for that.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:22
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Luv 2 give up my only leverage for a contingent non binding promise nominally based on a budget analysis of a bill that never would have become law because it hasn't been through the senate yet. Luckily the people making the promise don't actually care how the report comes out it's just a cynical maneuver to get their way, it makes it seem less absurd that way.
Magic Underwear fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 02:22
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Going to lol if the progressives go for it. Going to lmao at what is then done to BBB. This is inspired by post below but I'm just remembering that no promises made to Jayapal are enforceable on the Senate. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 02:25
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Magic Underwear posted:Luv 2 give up my only leverage for a contingent non binding promise nominally based on a budget analysis of a bill that never would have become law because it hasn't been through the senate yet. Luckily the people making the promise don't actually care how the report comes out it's just a cynical maneuver to get their way, it makes it seem less absurd that way.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:26
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Wheeljack posted:After the humiliating electoral showing the Democrats had this week and the source for the Steele Dossier being arrested for lying to the FBI about it, the pathetic hacks at MSNBC are surely desperate to cover something, anything else, and Powell was mildly critical of Trump once, so he’s perfect for that. Mildly? Openly admitted he left the Republican Party under Trump and Republicans nowadays consider him a traitor or dismiss him as just old.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:27
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So I unintentionally started a scuffle earlier when I was talking about the impact of student loan forgiveness by demographics and whatnot as a reaction to people complaining about non-universal policies, but to come full circle, this would be the one way that Biden could realistically deploy that EO without the issues on 2022 that I was laying out. If Jayapal gets the White House to agree to do the $10K forgiveness, paired with the childcare provisions and community college grants in the recon bill, that would be the most reasonable way to hit a big cross-section of voters at once and let everyone feel like they got their way - Manchin can pass the shittier version of the recon bill, the house progressives can let the house moderates have a "win", and then Biden can do loan forgiveness and the moderates can run away from it in the midterms if they want to since they won't have their names on it. Will things actually come together in this ridiculous West Wing way? Probably not, but it would be the fairest compromise if any of the individuals cared about anything other than their own personal re-election
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Nov 6, 2021 02:31
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Time to find out where the cards lay https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1456797286906974208
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Nov 6, 2021 02:36
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Harold Fjord posted:Going to lol if the progressives go for it. Going to lmao at what is then done to BBB. But it's assured! Just like how before it was assured they would only go in at the same time so this exact situation wouldn't happen lmao
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Nov 6, 2021 02:40
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Lemming posted:But it's assured! Just like how before it was assured they would only go in at the same time so this exact situation wouldn't happen lmao
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Nov 6, 2021 02:46
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It's pretty much over at this point I think. Oh well. Things will continue to sludge on and then when the mid terms come they'll continue to blame the Progressives for their losses.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:47
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Flopsy posted:Here's a take nobody is going to like but I ain't wrong. Manchin and Sinema and the moderates are just poo poo enough to not care if they gently caress both bills. They'll stall till the midterms and frame it as the progressives fault and not give a solitary gently caress. this the progressives and the president getting a potato in the hopes of getting SOMETHING as a win because those motherfuckers just do not care if it all burns down. Everyone's allowed their fanfic, but in a midterm wave election, moderates get slaughtered first because they're all in purple states, and they know this. It's also clear to everyone that the cause of their ills so far is nothing to campaign on.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:50
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Everyone's allowed their fanfic, but in a midterm wave election, moderates get slaughtered first because they're all in purple states, and they know this. It's also clear to everyone that the cause of their ills so far is nothing to campaign on. I think the issue is that Manchin is likely not running for Senate again and Sinema isn't up until 2024, so they both have more rope than the house progressives who are up in 2022
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Nov 6, 2021 02:52
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Is there a chance the moderates will vote for the BBB bill tonight without the CBO report, is that the deal Jayapal got in exchange for the Progressive vote on the BIF bill?
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Nov 6, 2021 02:56
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Build Back Better Bill is so dead
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Nov 6, 2021 02:56
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yeah this is why I don't think you can trust any deals that aren't binding, after you have given up your leverage In fact it's the whole point of splitting off the highway bill in the first place! It's the whole reason there's any jockeying at all, and it's insane levels of kabuki for any of the legislators involved pretend otherwise. What good is a loving pinky swear from someone who has spent months engineering a way to gently caress you over that they won't gently caress you over if you go along with their plan lmao
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Nov 6, 2021 02:58
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Either the progressives cave and the slow march towards fascism continues or they show backbone and Pelosi nuked the party. In the end, it should be clear to anyone that voting for the Democratic Party isn’t harm reduction.
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Nov 6, 2021 03:00
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Either the progressives cave and the slow march towards fascism continues or they show backbone and Pelosi nuked the party. Not sure how the bill failing would nuke the party - they can bring it back up for a vote later still, and most people won't know anything about the bill failing if it ends up passing before the end of the year
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Nov 6, 2021 03:03
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Mildly? Openly admitted he left the Republican Party under Trump and Republicans nowadays consider him a traitor or dismiss him as just old. Mildly for MSNBC.
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Nov 6, 2021 03:08
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Time to find out where the cards lay I'm assuming one minute = whatever, is because congress only has one official recognized watch made a few hundred years ago, and the key to wind it has been long lost, or some other such arcane bullshit (although that sounds slightly more like a British thing)
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Nov 6, 2021 03:12
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House just went into recess subject to the call of the chair. Looks like both cars hit the brakes in this chicken game, at least for the moment.
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Nov 6, 2021 03:14
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dr_rat posted:I'm assuming one minute = whatever, is because congress only has one official recognized watch made a few hundred years ago, and the key to wind it has been long lost, or some other such arcane bullshit (although that sounds slightly more like a British thing) I think it's that she's the timekeeper.
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Nov 6, 2021 03:14
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Sanguinia posted:House just went into recess subject to the call of the chair. Looks like both cars hit the brakes in this chicken game, at least for the moment. What does this mean exactly?
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Nov 6, 2021 03:15
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Sanguinia posted:House just went into recess subject to the call of the chair. Looks like both cars hit the brakes in this chicken game, at least for the moment. It's maddeningly frustrating that these "moderates" are so god damned set on keeping us from doing good things. The saga continues...
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Nov 6, 2021 03:16
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Wheeljack posted:After the humiliating electoral showing the Democrats had this week and the source for the Steele Dossier being arrested for lying to the FBI about it, the pathetic hacks at MSNBC are surely desperate to cover something, anything else, and Powell was mildly critical of Trump once, so he’s perfect for that. What's this about the Steele dossier? I must have missed that
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Nov 6, 2021 03:16
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