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Is that the "all companies with more than 100 employees" part of the mandate? gently caress
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Nov 6, 2021 19:59
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So should we not be investing in infrastructure then? You seem to be bending backwards to make even the slightest good thing a bad thing at this point, it's just tiresome.
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Nov 6, 2021 19:59
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Most highway repair is done via grants to state DoTs. Not an argument. How are u posted:If it has Republicans voting for it I think it's fair to call it bipartisan, why do you think otherwise? I think that’s a fairly simplistic political analysis, but if that’s what you want to believe I won’t stop you.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:01
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socialsecurity posted:So should we not be investing in infrastructure then? You seem to be bending backwards to make even the slightest good thing a bad thing at this point, it's just tiresome. No one is arguing anything of the sort. People are pointing out that if the BBB doesn't pass intact, the Dems are considerably less likely to benefit electorally from the infrastructure bill, because they will have reneged on many of their campaign promises. How are u posted:Isn't that something that you want to happen? Ideally, sure, but I'm not talking about what I want. This discussion is about the electoral consequences of these pieces of legislation. Majorian fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 20:03
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How are u posted:So, capitalists will never institute social spending, except for the times that they have in response to social pressure? I wouldn't really call fear of the Soviet Union 'social pressure' exactly. More like socialist pressure, ha cha cha.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:04
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Majorian posted:No one is arguing anything of the sort. People are pointing out that if the BBB doesn't pass intact, the Dems are considerably less likely to benefit electorally from the infrastructure bill, because they will have reneged on many of their campaign promises. Isn't that something that you want to happen? E Dems being revealed as fickle and feckless and held accountable, that is.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:04
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Most highway repair is done via grants to state DoTs. lol, what are you talking about? quote:View Services For Which Caltrans Contracts from the caltrans FAQs: quote:Caltrans does its own maintenance work, but for new projects or major reconstruction, private contractors are hired. To identify Caltrans workers, look for the white hard hats and orange trucks with the CT logo on the side. I wonder which of the two categories the BIF projects will fall under. 
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Nov 6, 2021 20:08
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How are u posted:Social spending is not incompatible with capitalism, friend. There are countless capitalist nations around the world that do plenty of it. It took two years and a proper tax agency to get the only "social spending" the government has ever done in my lifetime, and it's not even the whole thing.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:08
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How are u posted:Isn't that something that you want to happen? The left warned about Biden not keeping his campaign promises based on his own political history and the history of the party in general and we were told to refer to his website as proof that he really supported these things. Not sure why you think this latest failure would make any difference in changing liberals' minds.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:11
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Willa Rogers posted:I wonder which of the two categories the BIF projects will fall under. The literal largest section of the $110 billion road is for maintenance, repair and the surface transportation program. You don't have to ask or look silly if you Google first.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:12
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Eh, it's not a bipartisan bill due to contractor grift, it's bipartisan because everyone likes federal funding for roads and electrical grids so the states can do work they need to do without impacting their budgets. There's not really much in the BIF that could be construed as bad, and the broadband money is really the only stuff that I'd rate as likely to disappear (because there's no competition and historically telecom just does whatever the gently caress it wants to do until it reaches a boiling point and they get nailed with an anti-trust suit). This stuff all gets doled out through grant mechanisms. Again, the problem isn't the BIF, the problem is that it's all behind-the-scenes maintenance and improvements that is essential to do but will have minimal impact on most lives; it's stuff that people expect to work and complain when it breaks. All the notable social programs and meaningful climate funding are in the BBB, which is still in jeopardy.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:14
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Victory Position posted:It took two years and a proper tax agency to get the only "social spending" the government has ever done in my lifetime, and it's not even the whole thing. Things like Medicare and medicaid and TANF and such are all social spending. I'm pretty sure they have been in existence during your lifetime.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:14
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Seph posted:This seems to be a non-sequitur response to my post that you used to rant against liberals. You'll notice I never once ascribed any of the characteristics I mentioned to a specific group of people. I was just describing ways that people can be irrationally against progressive goals even though that progress would be objectively beneficial to them. I think that irrationality is pervasive and one of the main reasons why people vote against their own interests. It's this. Enough people know what the Republicans have done and they know what the Democrats have done. But in the face of a gaffe and some "racism dial twisting", that rivals prostitution for being the oldest profession in the world, rationality goes out the window. And that's because people aren't so much uninformed as they're just human. And human's are hackable. In fact it's not even that hard to code an information-based Trojan that enters through a cognitive vulnerability in the system, employs it's information-transport features to propagate, and executes a complete remote system shutdown. It's happening to people all over the country right now.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:16
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Artonos posted:Fertilizer shortage is a supply chain thing. It's been a huge pain in the rear end to get chemicals at my work lately. No one has basics like calcium chloride in stock. We over fertilize our fields though so maybe a bit of a break won't be terrible. It will probably decrease efficiency of farmers a bit though which can obviously drive food prices. Lmao. Most haz moves as drums and IBCs in containers. Plan on it being a pain for years.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:16
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socialsecurity posted:So should we not be investing in infrastructure then? You seem to be bending backwards to make even the slightest good thing a bad thing at this point, it's just tiresome. I feel like I’m being fairly clear. The passage of the infrastructure bill is not the *Democrat Party specifically* win the some people seem to think it is. Yes, actually fixing roads after not doing it for 50 years is “good”. That doesn’t mean it translates into votes for Dems, or what seemingly every liberal claims to want, getting rid of moderate dems like Manchin.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:18
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:
This is such an absurd and ahistorical take I'm not really sure what to say to it other than you have no loving clue what you're talking about
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Nov 6, 2021 20:19
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VH4Ever posted:If you honestly think Manchin's "do the vote on the bipartisan NOW and I'll deal" thing was honest or in any way in good faith then lol, bless your heart. Unrelated but I have some land in Florida that might interest you if you'd like to hear more. The solution to this poo poo is that you put the bill up to a House vote with understanding that all Democrats vote for it. Then you put it up in the Senate without establishing said agreement and force Manchin to vote with Republicans to kill it. Then you use your PAC money to run ads linking him to crackpot Republicans who voted no. You do this to force him into retiring the way the GOP saw so many departures from the victims of Trump bullying. Ted Cruz. Joe Manchin. Josh Hawley. Joe Manchin. Majorie Taylor-Greene. Joe Manchin. What do they have in common? You then lose Senate power because Virginia isn’t likely to elect a Democrat after Manchin refuses to run again, but what further good can be accomplished with power at this point? It’s okay why I was passing one bill. Passing no bill is not an option, since if the water in Flint is still poisonous by 2024 you’re going to lose Senators in Michigan eventually. On thing the GOP understands is that you have to lose some skin to grow tougher skin. Whether it was Trump’s bullying or the base’s persistence they have chased off Flake, Hatch, Corker etc and now Rand Paul is basically considered one of the guys instead of a weirdo.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:19
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:
It’s not a conspiracy no. It’s called systemic control of the narrative by forces who would lose power and wealth under leftist governments. The centre right is in control of the western world. There is no need for conspiracy. The left simply wont be allowed power.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:21
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socialsecurity posted:So should we not be investing in infrastructure then? You seem to be bending backwards to make even the slightest good thing a bad thing at this point, it's just tiresome. All things considered this infrastructure spending is relatively small compared to what it probably ought to be. But the concern isn't that, the concern is that by passing it the social spending/human infrastructure bill will die or be even further ripped apart because of the lack of legislative leverage. The entire reason there is an infrastructure bill is because the moderates ripped the infrastructure out of Build Back Better so they could do it in a separate bipartisan bill that Republicans got invited to, and in the process watered that infrastructure down a fair bit. What we have right now is a situation where the Moderates got what they wanted most and what the Progressives wanted most is hanging on their word. People here reasonably don't trust them because their behavior throughout the process has said that they don't really want that other spending because its too much leftism for them. It's worth noting that the current 1.75 Trillion version of Build Back Better has the blessing of Sinema and Manchin (and another Big Pharma puppet Senator who's name I forget) according to their public statements and what we know about the most recent rounds of negotiation where they finally made a deal about Medicare Drug Negotiation that satisfied them (and was a much better deal than the original Senate plan, though not as good as the House plan) and Manchin backed down on wanting work requirements for the Child Tax Credit thanks to the efforts of Sen. Brown from Ohio. It also has the written passed-by-vote-House-rule promise from the Blue Dogs to vote yes if the CBO score for that version matches the White House Budget Office's estimate. Manchin has similarly said he wants to see that CBO report before he fully commits to voting yes. On the other hand Manchin has said so many contradictory things about the BBB bill through this process many believe he was simply stalling and throwing fog out to obfuscate the fact that he's always wanted to kill this bill and now absolutely will because he got his bipartisan infrastructure. Sinema has, if anything, been even worse, though she's said nothing since she got her "win," on the new Drug Plan and put out her public release saying this resolved her biggest hurdle to getting on board (implying that there still might more hurdles OR that she might be at Yes now that she got her pound of flesh for her Pharma overlords). On the other hand she was the author of the Infrastructure bill, and now she might kill BBB just to BE A MAVERICK LIKE JOHN MCCAIN. Again, we don't know. President Biden begged Progressives to trust him, that this wasn't some scam to cut off the Left's balls and he can and will deliver the moderates. Biden has not lived up to the Left's hopes and made many mistakes and unforced errors since his election. But he's also backed the Progressives in this fight 100% and unceasingly since the process started. The reality is we don't know what's going to happen next. It's all prognostication at this point. Will the Moderates keep their word or are they openly lying? Will the CBO score come out favorably? Can Manchin be swayed or was it all a game? Is Sinema really a big enough fool to think kill this bill will make her President some day, or will she try to make herself the hero by being the winning vote, or is there a some other more insane game she's playing? Will the bill go through as is or will it be torn down to nothing but SALT deductions for rich bastards and have every scrap that helps normal people destroyed or will it even have some parts be made unexpectedly better like with the Drug Price compromise? We don't know. So people are assuming the worst.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:23
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How are u posted:So, capitalists will never institute social spending, except for the times that they have in response to social pressure? You say "social pressure, as if that extends only to things like bad coverage in the media. They used the word "revolution". A revolution is "social pressure" great enough to be destabilizing to society at large. Protests and bad media stories on their own have proven insufficient to get the capitalists to institute more social spending greater than tossing out a few more crumbs. Vorik posted:I hear you, but again what does any of that matter? The important thing is what the result of this investment is going to be. More jobs, more green energy, fixing our crumbling infrastructure, expanding access to high speed internet, investing in transportation, etc. You've repeated yourself but haven't answered the question. The Infrastructure bill, on its own, is actually bad for greenhouse gas emissions. Most of the parts which were good for green energy are in the BBB bill.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:27
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How are u posted:Isn't that something that you want to happen? Being told a stove is hot and will burn you isn't hoping that you'll touch it
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Nov 6, 2021 20:28
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Is anyone able to explain this in more detail? I have hard time seeing this fail given there's precedent with infectious diseases. Exactly. The irreparable harm goes the other way because unvaccinated people can spread this virus and harm people, and the case is not likely to succeed on the merits because vaccine requirements have a long history in this country. It’s a bullshit ruling that should not have happened. Rodenthar Drothman fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 20:39
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Mendrian posted:I think one of the most telling things about the modern Democrats is the way they effectively split broad groups into smaller cohorts by way of means testing. Like in a functional country a social welfare bill would straightforwardly benefit people in a broad package that improved living. An underserviced and increasingly at-risk group in this country are adults of working age who ride just near the poverty line; it's a huge demographic. But then we take that demo and we turn it into parents, home-owners, skilled vs unskilled labor, healthy vs disabled, etc, in order to cut smaller demographics out of the wider group, leaving healthy, parentless, apartment-renting adults struggling with poverty with absolutely nothing. Doubly so for minorities.
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Nov 6, 2021 21:05
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VitalSigns posted:Why would this Nigerian Prince not share his Swiss bank account with me after I sent him my life savings as a good faith gesture? Your is an up is down black is white conspiracy theory. This is one of the stupidest, inept, arrogant, and lethargic administrations. What the loving gently caress. These stupid pieces of poo poo are seriously sitting on their hands because they think keeping pointless federal student loan payments on pause sends a bad signal to...who exactly? No wonder these idiots loving lose whenever they have to run based on their own accomplishments and not as an opposition to an incumbent republican administration. There we have it folks, the "second FDR" administration going "well, we can't improve people's lives because people might think the economy is weak because a fairy in my head told me so." This is complete crap, these loans serve no purpose and it seems the only constituency behind them is lanyard, nepotism cases who probably don't now how much a single banana costs viewing it through the lens of "messaging."
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Nov 6, 2021 21:25
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From a couple recent morningconsult surveys: 
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Nov 6, 2021 21:29
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Lmao. We can't do more to support economy because it'll look like we aren't recovering fast enough. Don't expect much in the midterms, expect to lose the house and possibly the Senate. And then the Democrats will go will gee if only we could win elections. But they don't want to actually win elections, because the repercussions of their administrative actions will be felt by the people which they are not.
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Nov 6, 2021 21:31
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California apparently making people work on Saturday mornings. California announced they have already applied for $34 billion in grants to finish their high-speed rail line and "climate resilience." This High-speed rail line has been "in construction" since Arnold Schwarzenegger was Governor because they ran out of money at some point and just left it. Weirdly, this was an intentional strategy by Jerry Brown to start working on it before they figured out how to pay for it: quote:Beginning construction without all of the financing in place represents a strategic gamble by the rail authority, and by Mr. Brown, that once enough work is completed, future leaders will be loath to walk away from the project and leave a landscape of unfinished pillars, viaducts, bridges and track beds. The bill isn't even law yet, so they must really want that cash. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 21:41
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Body count from the Travis Scott concert is up to 8 with 14 people currently hospitalized and "hundreds" injured. They somehow still don't know what happened. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1457079104096849931 quote:‘No Way Out’: A Sudden Life-and-Death Struggle at a Houston Concert
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Nov 6, 2021 21:54
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I'm still taking a break, but here's his gloating video. Everyone in these threads in general are online too much, think their opinion is more popular than it actually is, but the reality is, the buzz around this is that Biden won. https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1457090628672757773?s=20
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Nov 6, 2021 22:04
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Lmao. We can't do more to support economy because it'll look like we aren't recovering fast enough. Honestly, I think they want to speed run losing congress and 2/3rds of state legislatures and governorships as fast as possible so a conservative, business friendly constitutional convention can be called and then REALLY deliver to their donors. Aside from that, the idiotic student loan payment aspect is just a way to saddle people with more bills so that they can't turn down jobs flipping burgers, it's that simple. Defending the administration's position of resuming them requires these sorts of mental gymnastics of saying "well, if we help people too much by not pausing pointless payments, it will make 'people' think the economy is weak." Even if you take this excuse at face value, you have to imagine then that one can only dream of business confidence gains to be had by saddling all of these borrowers with huge monthly payments again.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:05
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Willa Rogers posted:
Which contracts are being given to donors out of political corruption? Stabbey_the_Clown posted:The Infrastructure bill, on its own, is actually bad for greenhouse gas emissions. Maybe in the short term. Green energy investments are for the long run. Vorik fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 22:14
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Contracts given to donors out of political corruption often result in less-than-stellar results, from telecoms turning the grift into shareholder value instead of rural infrastructure to apartment buildings so shoddily constructed that they collapse.
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MooselanderII posted:This is one of the stupidest, inept, arrogant, and lethargic administrations. What the loving gently caress. These stupid pieces of poo poo are seriously sitting on their hands because they think keeping pointless federal student loan payments on pause sends a bad signal to...who exactly? No wonder these idiots loving lose whenever they have to run based on their own accomplishments and not as an opposition to an incumbent republican administration. Yeah it's great "Hello this letter is to inform you that thanks to President Biden and Build Back Better the economy is so strong we're going to charge you $1000/month again, congratulations on the economic opportunities coming your way to get a better job so you don't miss any payments"
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Nov 6, 2021 22:15
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LionArcher posted:I'm still taking a break, but here's his gloating video. Did you just post propaganda as reality? Lmao, like if you had posted multiple news articles and media takes about this being a win sure. That's buzz. But you posted the president going "I'm excited!" and went "Look at that buzz! Everyone's excited!". Incredible. Edit: My bad, it's at 2.3k likes. Buzz
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Nov 6, 2021 22:17
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LionArcher posted:I'm still taking a break, but here's his gloating video. They're not gonna openly admit they clowned on themselves bro.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:18
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LionArcher posted:I'm still taking a break, but here's his gloating video. I mean the BIF is, even entirely on its own, an historic infrastructure package and will do really good things that benefit people. It's absolutely a win. Trump and his Republican cronies couldn't pull it off, and they had every reason to do so.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:20
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How are u posted:I mean the BIF is, even entirely on its own, an historic infrastructure package and will do really good things that benefit people. It's absolutely a win. Trump and his Republican cronies couldn't pull it off, and they had every reason to do so. No I'm agreeing. I think just like me needing a break from online (news at least) a few days ago, a lot of people on here aren't willing to admit this is a good thing to happen, even if it's not nearly enough, and that some of the resources will fund eruption etc. Is it enough? Of course not. but acting like it's bad that it passed just makes me think a bunch of other people on here really need to take a break. (the reality is, people on twitter 24/7 and reddit really do need to take a break.)
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Nov 6, 2021 22:24
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you're right, let's all do brunch
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Nov 6, 2021 22:25
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How are u posted:I mean the BIF is, even entirely on its own, an historic infrastructure package and will do really good things that benefit people. It's absolutely a win. Trump and his Republican cronies couldn't pull it off, and they had every reason to do so. What are you talking about, in the Trump administration every week was infrastructure week
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Nov 6, 2021 22:26
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Here's an interesting bit of economic and survey data. Most Americans are much better off economically now than they were two years and they expect that to keep getting better. But, they also think that everyone else is doing a lot worse. Another interesting thing is that professionals in the top 25% of incomes and retirees are the groups who are disproportionately being hurt by rising prices in terms of purchasing power. But, there are people in the bottom 50% - particular people who need a used car immediately - that are getting boned too. quote:Americans Are Flush With Cash and Jobs. They Also Think the Economy Is Awful. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1457070294213005318
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Nov 6, 2021 22:31
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Objectively better and more impactful things than a fancy highway bill have already been passed and Biden's approval ratings are still swirling down the toilet so idk why anybody would think it's going to help him at all on his own. Yeah it gives the news media a chance to be like "hey look something happened" but I don't see any reason to think that'll matter to anybody who isn't plugged in 24/7 to the Democrat excuse machine
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Nov 6, 2021 22:31
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