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The extremely online left have a deep investment in Democrats loving everything up and losing the midterms. It has been prophesied from the nanosecond the 2020 election results were called.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:32
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LionArcher posted:No I'm agreeing. I think just like me needing a break from online (news at least) a few days ago, a lot of people on here aren't willing to admit this is a good thing to happen, even if it's not nearly enough, and that some of the resources will fund eruption etc. Well, the BBB is coming up next and that one will be an additional $1.75T. These two bills plus the COVID bill from earlier in the year alone will have made this administration worth it. That's almost $5 Trillion in direct spending on America and Americans. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Here's an interesting bit of economic and survey data. Most Americans are much better off economically now than they were two years and they expect that to keep getting better. But, they also think that everyone else is doing a lot worse. Going to quote this for the new page because that's a great article. It goes to show that even if things are looking good right now and even better for the future, it can take a while for that to sink in with the general populace. Vorik fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 22:32
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Zophar posted:The extremely online left have a deep investment in Democrats loving everything up and losing the midterms. It has been prophesied from the nanosecond the 2020 election results were called. Largely as we know the past behavior of all entities involved and could easily extrapolate.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:33
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Here's an interesting bit of economic and survey data. Most Americans are much better off economically now than they were two years and they expect that to keep getting better. But, they also think that everyone else is doing a lot worse. Have you considered having these same people pay their federal student loans again might make them realize that the economy is actually doing great???
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Nov 6, 2021 22:37
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Is anyone able to explain this in more detail? I have hard time seeing this fail given there's precedent with infectious diseases. Emergency stays don't usually have much reasoning attached - it basically just puts a pause on things until a court can more fully rule on the issue. Generally, it means the court thinks there's a chance that the lawsuit might possibly succeed, and that the harm of having the policy in place until then is too much or too difficult to reverse. Karl Barks posted:I feel like you’re being deliberately obtuse here, but the government doesn’t have construction firms of its own. They pay for-profit firms to do this work, and they pay them extremely well. Those firms are largely owned by wealthy individuals who tend to oppose social spending and donate to Republicans. That’s why this bill was marketed as bipartisan in the first place and why the origin of infrastructure week was the Trump admin. This is a pretty sweeping statement to make about all government-funded construction contracts nationwide without a hint of data to back it up. There's a far simpler reason that infrastructure bills tend to be bipartisan and supported even by the GOP: because construction projects can't be done remotely, and thus the money has to be spent in the region where the construction is being done. There aren't many Representatives out there who'd be opposed to a few tens of millions of federal dollars being spent in their district.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:40
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Zophar posted:The extremely online left have a deep investment in Democrats loving everything up and losing the midterms. It has been prophesied from the nanosecond the 2020 election results were called. The Prophecy was always that Biden would push for little, accomplish nothing. He's doing a bang up job so far.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:43
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Pamela Springstein posted:The Prophecy was always that Biden would push for little, accomplish nothing. He's doing a bang up job so far. ... He's pushed for the largest infrastructure and social spending packages in our lifetimes, and he's just signed one of them into law. You consider that very tangible and real thing to be "nothing"? e: actually I may be misreading you, you could be saying that Biden has done a good job so far despite "the prophecy" (what?) that he would push for little and accomplish nothing. If that is the case then I apologize for misreading you. How are u fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 22:48
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Pamela Springstein posted:The Prophecy was always that Biden would push for little, accomplish nothing. He's doing a bang up job so far. You mean aside from the largest societal spending since the New Deal
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Nov 6, 2021 22:49
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Vorik posted:Well, the BBB is coming up next and that one will be an additional $1.75T. These two bills plus the COVID bill from earlier in the year alone will have made this administration worth it. That's almost $5 Trillion in direct spending on America and Americans. In addition to this, and since some people love comparing Trump's bills to Biden's, the Democratic bills are much more focused on the poor and on individuals. It is true that it's not enough. Even $10t is not enough for the hole that America is in. It won't even be enough with $20t of full reparations for black people. But just because we are not meeting these thresholds does not mean that Republicans = Democrats. Anyone saying that it would be the same is just delusional. You would have gotten maybe a small stimmy under Rs and a nice fat tax cut for the rich on top of that, nothing more.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:51
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How are u posted:... While it isn't nothing, I think any positive sentiment may be lost by how much was removed from it that was absolutely necessary. It's like saying we're going to the moon but we get to LEO. It's not nothing, but it isn't exciting or novel, or even close to what we were trying for. 
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Nov 6, 2021 22:51
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Vorik posted:Well, the BBB is coming up next and that one will be an additional $1.75T. These two bills plus the COVID bill from earlier in the year alone will have made this administration worth it. That's almost $5 Trillion in direct spending on America and Americans. Sink what in? A tax break for millionaires and funding highways? Spectacular. E: every Dem fumbled this except Josh Gottheimer. He got the tax break and strangled pharma negotiations in the bill. The CPC is a joke.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:52
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MooselanderII posted:Have you considered having these same people pay their federal student loans again might make them realize that the economy is actually doing great???
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Nov 6, 2021 22:53
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"This is a historic spending bill, the biggest since the new deal *cough*", I console myself, as my student loan payments resume, wages stagnate. I wonder if this cough is covid, or the smoke in the air from forest fires. Guess I'll never know because I cant afford the deductible. At least I know my vote counted, probably, and that Democrats are doing their best. They hear me. They see me.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:53
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Why would you compare the scale of the bill to literally nothing instead of the multitude of crises we are facing?
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Nov 6, 2021 22:54
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Pamela Springstein posted:wages stagnate. This is one of the rare times where wages aren't stagnant. Wages grew by between 4.7% and 11.2% depending on the sector for people in the bottom 50%. It might be temporary, but as long as there is a labor/output mismatch (which looks like it will continue for a while), then there is actually upward pressure on wages for once. We have basically been dealing with mass unemployment and low inflation every year since 2009, so there was basically no upward wage pressure for 12 years straight.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:58
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:While it isn't nothing, I think any positive sentiment may be lost by how much was removed from it that was absolutely necessary. Yeah this is honestly a good analogy. It's getting sold as a moonshot where the hardest negotiations were within the party. That's not good politically.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:59
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Shageletic posted:Sink what in? That bridges are being built, roads are being fixed, transportation is being expanded, parents are getting stipends, green energy is being invested in, universal and free pre-k for millions of children, expanded maidcaid, cheaper ACA premiums, affordable housing, etc. There's a world of good in these bills, but it might not be so apparent if you're dead set on everything being bad!
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Nov 6, 2021 23:00
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Also, the same credits that people were patting themselves on the back for "CUTTING CHILD POVERTY IN HALF!!!" back in March were extended beyond 2021 in the other bill, and passing this bill this way probably ensures that child poverty is set to double on January 1, 2022, with ramifications snowballing just in time for the 15th consecutive edition of "THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN OUR LIFETIME".
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Nov 6, 2021 23:01
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is pepsi ok posted:Why would you compare the scale of the bill to literally nothing instead of the multitude of crises we are facing? A lot of the time - especially for the climate crisis - celebrating slight incremental progress feels like celebrating that the rocket you're heading to space on will now have a whopping 35% of the fuel needed to get there (up from 15%!). It's not "nothing", but it's not enough to stop the ship smashing into the ground.
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Nov 6, 2021 23:01
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:A lot of the time - especially for the climate crisis - celebrating slight incremental progress feels like celebrating that the rocket you're heading to space on will now have a whopping 35% of the fuel needed to get there (up from 15%!). It's not "nothing", but it's not enough to stop the ship smashing into the ground. Here's a concrete example of this: https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1454147639046512650 A nice visualization of what "better than nothing" actually means.
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Nov 6, 2021 23:04
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is pepsi ok posted:Why would you compare the scale of the bill to literally nothing instead of the multitude of crises we are facing? Because this is mostly a response to people saying "hurr durr Democrats are the same as Republicans." This is not a defense of the bills as they are, and only $20t of reparations, full amnesty for all forever, M4A, new civil rights and voting legislation, and a 90% tax rate on the rich would remedy the mess that we're in. But I don't think we're getting this. And if I'm going to do purity tests, not even Bernie or AOC would get my vote since I don't remember amnesty for the undocumented and 90% tax rates were on either candidate's platform.
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Nov 6, 2021 23:04
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I wondered why people keep saying "the largest spending bill since the New Deal," so I tried looking up other things that the government has done since then. There isn't a really good list available of how much various things cost that I was able to find, but I did find that "1 trillion dollars" isn't really all that much in the grand scheme of how much the government, y'know, spends. The military alone is over 700 billion dollars per year, so even just two years of that costs more than all of this "historic bill." The CARES Act was 2.2 trillion dollars. The American Rescue Plan was 1.9 trillion dollars. Hell, even back in 2008 TARP was 800 billion dollars. Are these not historic things? If anything, I think the fact that it's been almost 90 years since the New Deal happened and nothing's been on that scale is kinda damning with faint praise at best, isn't it? Maybe I have large number blindness.
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Nov 6, 2021 23:06
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:A lot of the time - especially for the climate crisis - celebrating slight incremental progress feels like celebrating that the rocket you're heading to space on will now have a whopping 35% of the fuel needed to get there (up from 15%!). It's not "nothing", but it's not enough to stop the ship smashing into the ground. With 35% fuel you could theoretically do a hoverslam and land safely. It will still suck and people will probably die, but it won't be a total unplanned sudden deconstruction of your vehicle. At least that works if the analogy holds up and I have learned anything from KSP. 
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Nov 6, 2021 23:07
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Here's an interesting bit of economic and survey data. Most Americans are much better off economically now than they were two years and they expect that to keep getting better. But, they also think that everyone else is doing a lot worse.  I cannot believe the way the polls have been trending this year. People's satisfaction with the job market is at a record high, and people's biggest economic concern is the federal deficit!? It's like the loving Baileys came out into real life, springing out of Chuck Schumer's imagination to tell a lineup of pollsters that the biggest issues facing the US are too much illegal immigration, insufficient bipartisanship, and too much deficit spending.
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Nov 6, 2021 23:10
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:A lot of the time - especially for the climate crisis - celebrating slight incremental progress feels like celebrating that the rocket you're heading to space on will now have a whopping 35% of the fuel needed to get there (up from 15%!). It's not "nothing", but it's not enough to stop the ship smashing into the ground. I also agree with you that the problem has always been form or another of "you need a loaf of bread for your family to not starve to death. They give you half a loaf. We're now just doing it on a global level.
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Nov 6, 2021 23:10
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The Fifth Circuit is a land of contrasts https://twitter.com/EvidenceProf/status/1456693918360391687 quote:If the First Amendment means anything, it surely means that a citizen journalist has the right to ask a public official a question, without fear of being imprisoned. Yet that is exactly what happened here: Priscilla Villarreal was put in jail for asking a police officer a question. If that is not an obvious violation of the Constitution, it’s hard to imagine what would be. And as the Supreme Court has repeatedly held, public officials are not entitled to qualified immunity for obvious violations of the Constitution. quote:It should be obvious to any reasonable police officer that locking up a journalist for asking a question violates the First Amendment. Indeed, even Captain Lorenzo, the stubborn police chief in Die Hard 2, acknowledged: “Now personally, I’d like to lock every [expletive] reporter out of the airport. But then they’d just pull that ‘freedom of speech’ [expletive] on us and the ACLU would be all over us.” Die Hard 2 (1990). Captain Lorenzo understood this. The officers in Laredo should have, too. Bonus joke: it's nice to see "treating a movie or TV show like real life" in legal precedence break in the correct direction for once. Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 23:18
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small butter posted:Because this is mostly a response to people saying "hurr durr Democrats are the same as Republicans." This is not a defense of the bills as they are, and only $20t of reparations, full amnesty for all forever, M4A, new civil rights and voting legislation, and a 90% tax rate on the rich would remedy the mess that we're in. But I don't think we're getting this. And if I'm going to do purity tests, not even Bernie or AOC would get my vote since I don't remember amnesty for the undocumented and 90% tax rates were on either candidate's platform. The democrats are definitely still better than the republicans, but that doesn't mean I can't be upset when they keep promising to actually help people and somehow always manage to negotiate away all but the barest possible minimum of help while betraying their own positions and promises. You can't manufacture enthusiasm (not without making mental health care affordable!). Also, you know, all the monstrous policies that they continue to perpetuate (yes I know the Republicans would do worse). I'm upset this time because, unfortunately, I actually wanted to believe that the CPC had literally any power or integrity. Months of promises that they'd pass both bills together or not at all, all of which meant absolutely nothing. It makes it harder to be enthusiastic about "just elect more progressives", when we have 95! in the House that are still less powerful than 6 moderates. What's the tipping point there? 100? 217? Plus 49 more in the Senate? and it's completely useless to hope till then?
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Nov 6, 2021 23:27
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Gumball Gumption posted:Yeah this is honestly a good analogy. It's getting sold as a moonshot where the hardest negotiations were within the party. That's not good politically. I think that would be a really interesting political science/psychology experiment if you could create two parallel worlds and run a test in each of them. On the one hand, less than 18% of people say they are even paying attention to the process, so it seems like the 82% who aren't wouldn't be more or less excited based on changes in the process or expectations. Psychologically, does starting bigger and ending up smaller hurt more than starting smaller and delivering smaller? Especially if most people are admittedly saying that they don't know anything about it and aren't paying attention to it? Do the preferences of the 18% who are paying close attention impact the other 82%? If nobody knew anything about the process and didn't watch the negotiations and bill stall for 4 months, and in 2020 you framed it as "Biden will propose and pass a bill that will..." - Establish universal Pre-K. - Give 13 million people $0 premium and $0 deductible health insurance. - Expand Medicare benefits. - Enact a corporate minimum tax. - Pass 3/4 of a trillion dollars in climate spending. - Cap insulin prices and reform Medicare Part D. - Send a monthly check to 39% of U.S. households. - Set up a program that gives ~$7,050 in grants per year for college to the bottom 60% of households. - Triple the EITC. - Create a 42% expansion of SNAP - Give everyone $12,500 rebates to buy electric cars. - Give everyone $8,000 for childcare. - Set up a program for all homeowners to get free solar panels. - Create a civilian climate corps. - Permanently fund CHIP. Would people think that was unrealistically optimistic in 2020? Would people still be equally as disappointed? Or would people be even more disappointed? Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 23:31
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I think that our social media ecosystem allows the process of sausage-making to play out in public unlike ever before, and our completely poisoned public discourse based on public shaming, "virtue signaling" of sorts, and eternal rage just stomps it into the ground.
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Nov 6, 2021 23:33
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How are u posted:I think that our social media ecosystem allows the process of sausage-making to play out in public unlike ever before, and our completely poisoned public discourse based on public shaming, "virtue signaling" of sorts, and eternal rage just stomps it into the ground. It's funny, the Star Citizen true believers make exactly the same argument. They say the problem is that people don't understand that game dev is messy and bad online people just want to be negative about it.
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Nov 6, 2021 23:37
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Rodenthar Drothman posted:Exactly. The irreparable harm goes the other way because unvaccinated people can spread this virus and harm people, and the case is not likely to succeed on the merits because vaccine requirements have a long history in this country. Right on - but we should still expect this to pass correct?
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Nov 6, 2021 23:37
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TulliusCicero posted:A really great way to get the economy to improve is to force a bunch of people who can't pay massive debt to start paying again! Some of them are so out of touch they probably think that monthly student loan payments are like $10.
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Nov 6, 2021 23:42
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Vorik posted:Well, the BBB is coming up next and that one will be an additional $1.75T. These two bills plus the COVID bill from earlier in the year alone will have made this administration worth it. That's almost $5 Trillion in direct spending on America and Americans. BBB is very likely going to be gutted further if it passes at all. The entire reason Manchin has been so insistent on the infrastructure bill being passed first was so that BBB has no leverage whatsoever. Ershalim posted:I wondered why people keep saying "the largest spending bill since the New Deal," so I tried looking up other things that the government has done since then. There isn't a really good list available of how much various things cost that I was able to find, but I did find that "1 trillion dollars" isn't really all that much in the grand scheme of how much the government, y'know, spends. The military alone is over 700 billion dollars per year, so even just two years of that costs more than all of this "historic bill." I think another important fact is what the bill actually accomplishes, which so far is some basic maintenance and even that required fabulous cash prizes to the already-rich to get though Comparing it to the New Deal, which basically restructured the entire U.S economy in an extremely short time-frame, is bizarre.
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Nov 6, 2021 23:48
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Main Paineframe posted:
I don't get it either - I'm stunned that people somehow believe that the Biden Administration is somehow able to turn the entire world economy on a dime with the majority of our institutions desperatelyunderfunded and then somehow quickly turn everything back to normal after a massive pandemic. | The results that came of out the NJ Governor's race are freaking mind boggling.
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Nov 6, 2021 23:53
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:This is one of the rare times where wages aren't stagnant. Wages grew by between 4.7% and 11.2% depending on the sector for people in the bottom 50%. And all it finally took was a pandemic that killed the working poor & a bunch of olds to get boomers & women out of the job market. Bing bang bong, and much simpler than permanently doubling the minimum wage or enhancing earned benefits, as Dems once promised in order to secure electoral wins.
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Nov 6, 2021 23:53
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Willa Rogers posted:And all it finally took was a pandemic that killed the working poor & a bunch of olds to get boomers & women out of the job market. Reminds me of how wages skyrocketed for workers who didn't die of the Black Death during the Late Middle Ages. Of course, that famously caused inflation to skyrocket, lol.
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Nov 7, 2021 00:03
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Vorik posted:That bridges are being built, roads are being fixed, transportation is being expanded, parents are getting stipends, green energy is being invested in, universal and free pre-k for millions of children, expanded maidcaid, cheaper ACA premiums, affordable housing, etc. There's a world of good in these bills, but it might not be so apparent if you're dead set on everything being bad! We passed a highway bill like we do every decade. We're redoing the green tax credits we did 10 years ago. The only thing Dems can point to paving new ground here is the universal pre-k. That's a weak hook to hang your mid-terms on. And think of what they could have been running on. Dental and vision for medicare. Medicare dropped to 55 year olds. Family paid leave and sick leave. And the Dems left that on the wayside because I guess they're eagerly looking forward to being the minority party again. And the majority of this bill being a tax cut to billionaires is unforgiveable. Any decent left leaning person should vote against this. The Dems passing it means they're not a party I can feel good about voting for ever again.
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Nov 7, 2021 00:05
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https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/1456100839576252417 https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/1456103505358430214 https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/1456108412241129472 https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/1456064321499320324 If it wasn't for the overall signs of the party loving around and dragging the progressives down I'd be fairly happy with the outcome, but... well, we're liable to be dragged down to death with Biden and the rest of his dinosaurs.
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Nov 7, 2021 00:06
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I think that would be a really interesting political science/psychology experiment if you could create two parallel worlds and run a test in each of them. If you had typed up that list back in 2020 people would have called you crazy. You could pick any one of the bullet points on that list and it would have been a huge bill by itself. The fact that we're getting all of this passed in the span of a year shows just how massive and wide reaching this spending package will end up being. There are so many good things being done here that it will no doubt take a while for it to settle in. Shageletic posted:We passed a highway bill like we do every decade. We're redoing the green tax credits we did 10 years ago. The only thing Dems can point to paving new ground here is the universal pre-k. That's a weak hook to hang your mid-terms on. Honestly it just sounds to me like you are utterly detached from the average American and incapable of comprehending just how much the things in these bills will help people. Vorik fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Nov 7, 2021 |
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Nov 7, 2021 00:07
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Vorik posted:If you had typed up that list back in 2020 people would have called you crazy. You could pick any one of the bullet points on that list and it would have been a huge bill by itself. The fact that we're getting all of this passed in the span of a year shows just how massive and wide reaching this spending package will end up being. There are so many good things being done here that it will no doubt take a while for it to settle in. So this guy is definitely a troll, but it is worth noting for those reading this thread that the passed bill doesn't do any of the bulleted things nor are those items on the agenda. It is also worth pointing out that there is virtually 0 direct social spending in the passed bill either. The "CHILD POVERTY HALVING" tax credits are being left to languish and expire on December 31, 2021.
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Nov 7, 2021 00:15
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