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This development really exasperated me, because the entire route up until this point was this meandering clearly-intended-to-be-funnier-than-it-is slice of life that constantly introduced new characters instead of actually developing the existing ones much and then the author thought, "Oh poo poo, the route is 3/4th over and nothing's happened! Well, I'm stumped on what drama there could possibly be between Hisao and Shizune based off their personalities so instead-" I do agree that this seems more like Misha is taking out her frustration that Shizune doesn't love her back on trying to destroy Hisao and Shizune's relationship than Misha being interested in Hisao.
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Nov 8, 2021 19:54
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SimplyUnknown1 posted:Yeah, I completely agree. Do not engage! But I also just realized something. I'm pretty sure this is the first choice we've had since we got on Shizune's route. Compared to Emi and Hanako, this is really late. Because Shizune is making all the decisions.
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Nov 8, 2021 19:59
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Quackles posted:Because Shizune is making all the decisions. IIRC I think Hisao just decided to go on vacation with Shizune and Misha out of the blue, and Shizune even resisted it a little. But the player didn't get a say in that, though.
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Nov 8, 2021 20:29
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For maximum soap opera let's do it.
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Nov 8, 2021 21:00
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i powered through this whole thread over the past two days. i had heard of Katawa Shoujo, but knowing it was a product of 4chan, i made uncharitable assumptions about it and never gave it a shot. tgis thread has been highly informative in many ways, and it's been eye-opening to read all the firsthand accounts of how society treats disabled people. thank you, Falconier, for doing the LP, as well as everyone who's contributed. for this choice, i say Refuse. Misha is Hisao's friend and he should comfort her... but not in his room, on his bed, when she's already making advances on him. (one thing i considered while reading over the thread was doing an effortpost that compares how society treats disability to how it treats transgender people. not in any kind of "oppression Olympics" sense, just a side-by-side look, comparing the perspectives yall have shared here with my experience as a trans woman. im not sure whether that's really a good idea, though; this thread is about disabled people, not trans people, and i don't want to hijack the conversation to trans issues. what do yall think?)
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Nov 8, 2021 21:10
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Chloe Jessica posted:(one thing i considered while reading over the thread was doing an effortpost that compares how society treats disability to how it treats transgender people. not in any kind of "oppression Olympics" sense, just a side-by-side look, comparing the perspectives yall have shared here with my experience as a trans woman. im not sure whether that's really a good idea, though; this thread is about disabled people, not trans people, and i don't want to hijack the conversation to trans issues. what do yall think?) I vote for ‘do it’. If not now, when?
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Nov 8, 2021 21:12
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Ibblebibble posted:For maximum soap opera let's do it. This
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Nov 8, 2021 21:31
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While Falconier said they're not covering bad ends (and thus this isn't actually a vote, that was just a cliffhanger), this particular bad end may be worth covering because there's so little characterization going on for either Shizune or Misha that the bad end ends up being about half of it.
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Nov 8, 2021 21:34
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Uh, worth noting: I’ve already made this decision, like I have every other time a decision’s come up. In fact, I’ve actually finished the route and am currently writing up the conclusion based on what I did. I should have clarified that again in the post 
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Nov 8, 2021 21:39
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SimplyUnknown1 posted:I'm pretty sure this is the first choice we've had since we got on Shizune's route. Indeed it is. The first time I played, I assumed that was an aesthetic choice, to reflect just how little agency Hisao has had in this relationship up to now (when he suddenly has the chance to drive it straight off a cliff). On review, though, it may well have just been bad writing.
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Nov 8, 2021 21:39
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Falconier111 posted:Uh, worth noting: I’ve already made this decision, like I have every other time a decision’s come up. In fact, I’ve actually finished the route and am currently writing up the conclusion based on what I did. wow talk about lack of agency  i'm kidding
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Nov 8, 2021 22:11
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I could have sworn there was a part where [REDACTED] Maybe I'm thinking of info from another path? And now we arrive at the only decision in this whole route. And the most infamous one. If you are completely unspoiled, make your guesses, and hold onto them for the post-story discussion. Cobalt-60 fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Nov 8, 2021 |
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Nov 8, 2021 22:58
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nothing to see here
Nothingtoseehere fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Nov 9, 2021 |
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Nov 8, 2021 23:08
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A Comparison of Societal Treatment of Disabled People and Transgender People Trigger warning: This post contains discussion of queerphobic positions and language, suicide, sex, and sexuality. Hi. My name is Chloe, and I am an able-bodied transgender woman. I read over the thread in its entirety over the past couple of days, and many times I found myself recognizing “hey, I have experienced similar things since I socially transitioned”. Other times, I would say, “Wow, that's totally the opposite of how people handle us”. More and more, I thought it would be interesting to compare the two. While all minorities experience friction with the majority in their own ways, there are certain elements of the experience of being Different that are common to all of us. We all get stares; we all have to deal with awkward questions sometimes; we're all constantly aware of how much we stick out from everyone around us. I'm not really here to talk about that. What I want to do is look at perspectives that you guys have posted in the thread and directly compare them to things I have experienced as a trans woman. To take a side-by-side look at our lived experience and how our differences have informed our outlooks and affected our ability to engage with those around us. I am not a spokesperson for the trans community; my words here represent my own thoughts and opinions, no one else's. I am also, as I said above, able-bodied, and while I am better versed on disability activism than I was before I read this thread, it's still not something I have done as much research on as I really should. If I make mistakes when discussing this, I apologize. It is not my intent to cause harm to anyone with this, and if I do, please let me know so I can correct it. Agency I want to start here because I feel like this is the primary aspect of disability KS intends to engage with. We've seen it in all three routes so far, and Falconier, rightfully, returns to it constantly. Most prominently, Hanako's bad end is her blowing up at Hisao because he refuses to acknowledge her agency. Many of you guys seemed to relate pretty strongly to that experience. For adult trans people, threats to our agency usually come from people who are actively trying to strip our rights away because they think we don't deserve them. We don't have to fend off well-meaning people who think they know what's best for us better than we do (although, similarly to disabled people, there's a real problem with decisions being made about us without inviting us to the discussion). It's a much more adversarial situation, and therefore more straightforward; we can yell at them because they already hate us and they don't care. For trans children, however, their agency is often completely stripped away. This is remarkably similar to the way disabled children are treated, in that it often consists of authority figures (including medical professionals) in the child's life denying that a problem exists at all, and insisting that good old tough love is all the kid needs to fit neatly back into the box society has for them. Trans kids are gaslit and refused the treatment they need to be comfortable in their own bodies, and it has a massive impact on their development. It's hard to discuss solutions to this problem without discussing childrens' rights in general. This is not just a trans issue; as of right now, a parent can force their child to get a job, take all the money the child earns from that job, and the child has no say in the matter, because they do not have the right to control their own finances. That's hosed. Teenagers need more legal protections and freedoms in general, but most prominently financial and medical. There's really no other way around this. The Euphemism Treadmill Falconier111 posted:The phrase ”euphemism treadmill” describes what happens when people try to introduce polite terms for perceived problems that won’t go away. Let’s say, as a purely theoretical exercise, that there’s a guy who thinks a one night stand with a disabled person is enough to spawn hundreds of ableist caricatures. He believes you can categorize disabled people by their rough mental age so reliably he gives those categories names: “idiot” for the “youngest”, already a term for those seen as stupid; “imbecile” for those in the middle, a word that previously referred to those with a physical or mental disability; and “moron” for the “oldest”, an ancient Greek word he mangles to fit his theory like a proper 19th century scientist. Let’s say he’s also one of the most respected mental health authorities in America and uses those words as part of the basis for modern psychiatric testing. That means they’ll be treated as distinct, specific clinical terms, right? Nope. The moment people hear those words used to describe people they look down on, they steal them and start using them as insults. It happens. Constantly. And nobody cares. That hypothetical guy dies, claiming he wasn’t actually advocating sterilizing people he didn’t respect to his grave, but his categories outlive him as ways people describe other people when they think they aren’t as smart as them. Which is kind of what you get if you take insults and try to use them as medical terms This is a problem that the queer community in general has managed to overcome. The slurs we are dealing with have been the same for almost twenty years, and the reclamation movement is huge and very successful. As the public at large came around to the idea of “hey, maybe queer people should just be allowed to live their lives”, the stigma around terms like “gay” faded away, and they became an accepted part of the lexicon. There's no better example of this than the word “queer” itself. Most polite company will exclude someone for using homophobic and transphobic slurs in ways they don't for ableism, including here on SA. People seem to have understood why the words are harmful even with no malice behind them, and I don't get why it's so difficult to extend that empathy to cover ableist slurs as well. Medical Research Dirk the Average posted:All that is to say that every bit of prosthetics research, artificial replacement parts, etc. is endlessly complicated. I've worked on cardiac systems in the past, and the amount of things you need to do to prevent and minimize blood clots is astounding. Replacement organs that are grown with a patient's own cells also face major difficulties, and while I haven't studied them in a decade, the most major issue they had back then is that getting proper blood vessels to grow was nearly impossible. They could get leaky and crappy cancer blood vessels to grow, but that wasn't exactly useful. Your implants were essentially limited to something like a few hundred microns in thickness due to how fluid transport works. Currently, research into transgender medicine is mostly focused on medication and psychology. As far as surgery goes... the situation is a little bit dire. Vaginoplasty techniques have not significantly advanced in a long time; phalloplasty is even less effective. There are a handful of doctors that are really, really good at it that the trans community knows by name. Some of them are training people to do it. But you can't go to your local hospital and reasonably expect to find someone who knows how to do it. This contributes to the high cost of gender confirmation surgery. You have to go to where the doctors are; they're too busy to come to you. I think this comes from the common idea that GCS is a cosmetic surgery more than anything else. It's not. It has serious effects on your body and mind... which is exactly the point. Trans people kill themselves because they can't get it. GCS is not seen as necessary to the health of a trans person in the same way as surgery to make someone more able-bodied is seen as necessary to their health. Some of us choose not to have it, and that's a valid choice; a person's transition is no one's business but their own. But for those of us that do want it, the barriers are monstrous, and lack of research is a significant part of the reason why. (And that's not even getting into the question of, if it's so unnecessary, why can't I change my gender markers until I get it?  )Aside from that, even on the medicinal side, doctors are slow to adapt to new research. Planned Parenthood, the primary provider of hormone replacement therapy in the US, stubbornly adheres to a “slow drip” medication style when modern research suggests that higher dosages are far, far more effective, especially in older trans people. This is hardly a problem that's unique to us, though; I'm sure yall have plenty of stories of a doctor refusing to prescribe you a new treatment simply because it was new. Transgender Characters in Media Quackles posted:This reminds me of an argument I saw on Tumblr once upon your time. It was about How to Train Your Dragon and its sequels. I want to address that “Because he doesn't struggle” line on its own, but first: this is very similar to how queer characters are treated by consumers of media. If the show doesn't explicitly confirm a character is trans, there's a certain faction of people who will never, ever admit that they are, no matter how apparent it becomes. And I'm not even talking about bigots – or not the overt ones, at least. I'm talking about ordinary folks who have never had to think critically about what exactly “gender” means. They are simply not equipped to view the character through that lens, and they'll push back against anything that challenges their preconceived notions, completely unaware of the harm they're doing by erasing queer representation. A lot of this, I think, comes from people instinctively viewing any kind of difference as negative. If they identify with their interpretation of a character, and then someone challenges their interpretation, they take it as a personal slight, which closes their mind to attempting to understand any other interpretations. Internalized bigotry also plays a part: “If this resonates with me, and this person is Different, then am I Different too? I can't be Different, I'm Normal, therefore this character is also Normal.” Now: I have a strong, strong, strong aversion to defining a group by the hardship it experiences. I have known trans people who had been fortunate enough to never experience bigotry in their lives. They were still trans. It is something that is intrinsic to you, not something that becomes applied to you because of what you have experienced. I would imagine that, because even the polite words used for disabled people (including “disabled” itself) have so many negative associations about agency and capability, it's a problem that's even worse for yall. Public Perception and Societal Expectations clockwork chaos posted:Not exactly the same but similar; the stigma of the wheelchair. (For context here, I am fully socially transitioned and live my day-to-day life as a woman.) Let's say I don't shave my face one morning. I overslept, I'm depressed, I just forget, poo poo happens. If I have to go out that day, there is a measurable difference in how people react to me versus when I'm clean-shaven. If I do not make every effort at all times to perform my gender, I am seen as a faker, a poser, a transtrender or a troon. A quarter inch of stubble can make the difference between a respectful nod and a disgusted glare. People noticeably make more of an effort to respect me when I am shaved and in a dress versus unshaven and in a dress. This is a problem that's even worse for NB people than it is for me. I used to know an AMAB non-binary person who had an hourglass figure, long flowing hair, and a full-on Viking/mountain man beard. Nobody ever knew how to interact with them upon first meeting them. A lot of people just... didn't. They couldn't fit them into a category, so they utterly gave up on trying to engage with them. This person was incredibly strong and stubborn and always laughed it off, but... you can't experience that for years and not have it affect you. And that's what it's about. We've reached the point, just about, where “transgender” is an acceptable box for most people to slot someone into... but God forbid you try to exist outside a box at all. Trans Awareness and Accommodation in the Workplace citybeatnik posted:Not really related to the game itself but more to what the OP does professionally... This is, I think, exemplary of the wider societal problem I've touched on already: people talk about us, not to us. These seminars and sensitivity trainings and well-meaning Powerpoints are created by the majority, for the majority. This is just as true for trans people as it is for disabled people, and probably one of the areas where our experiences overlap the most. At my most recent job, everyone I worked with was incredibly kind to me. My name and pronouns were respected, and my coworkers would correct other people on my behalf. It was wonderful. But... I couldn't use my preferred name on Teams or in any of our systems. I had to stare at my deadname, all day, every day. Because the people who'd trained my coworkers on how to interact with trans people didn't think that was important. They never asked me what I might need. Falconier's addressed this, too, but it bears repeating: It is not fair to make decisions about our well-being without asking us to contribute. The Social Construct of Gender Nidoking posted:I've heard quite a lot about gender as a social construct, and I think it makes a reasonable segue because we've all had at least some experience with gender, while not everyone has experienced disability. I've got a controversial hypothesis that I don't want to debate here, and I'm just providing it for context: If there were no gender stereotypes at all, and the terms "male" and "female" referred to genitals and nothing else, then I don't think there would be such a thing as transgender people. I'm prepared to be wrong about that, which is why I don't want to discuss it, but it might help to illustrate how much of gender is socially constructed. Society has constructed an idea of what it means to be a man or a woman, and it's a giant collection of traits and stereotypes that don't line up for most individuals, and definitely don't uniformly line up with anyone's biology. The thing that makes the social construction of gender different from money is that biology is an actual attribute that society has tied to gender. Gender is not completely disconnected from reality the way money is, but by construction, has a component that is inherent to each person aside from the constructed attributes. The social construct assigns attributes to every person before they're even aware of society, and any attempts to break that mold tend to meet a lot of friction, to put it mildly. In my mind (and again, I could be entirely wrong about this), the disconnect between people's traits and the social construct of gender, which includes the biological component, is the cause of the discomfort some transgender people have with their biologies. This is something I strongly agree with. If children were allowed to just wear whatever they want and do whatever they want, and gender stereotypes were completely abolished, “transgender” would cease to exist as a meaningful distinction – and that would be wonderful. It's a difficult discussion to have, though, because the more you talk about a world so different from our own, the more assumptions you have to make about it, which means you can basically make it stand for anything you want. Would I still have physical dysphoria about my genitalia? I would much rather have a vagina than a penis. Is that because society says “penis” means “male”, or is it an inherent discomfort with my body? There are trans people who feel like they have phantom versions of the genitalia associated with their preferred gender. Is that an effect of societal pressure? I genuinely don't know. Nidoking posted:Disability is a similar social construct that ties artificial stereotypes and traits to biological attributes, but encompassing a much larger variety of biological attributes that aren't necessarily related outside the social construct. In a general sense, blindness and deafness, for example, are both characterized by the lack of a particular sense, but they're also very different. But the social construct of "disability" wraps both of those, and many other conditions of both physical and mental health, into a single concept. Maybe that's a good thing in some ways - can you imagine something like the Americans with Disabilities Act existing if each disability had to be protected as an individual category, with specific laws governing inclusion of people with that specific disability? (I'm not going to claim that the law is wonderful as-is, but it does offer at least some broad protections that can be leveraged in certain situations.) But the social construct also does little to distinguish the different types of disability, which I believe is why so many people will shout at blind people, even though neither blind people nor deaf people would benefit from that. That's a separate thing from the people who treat everyone with a visible disability as inferior, from my perspective, but it's all part of the same social construct, an "otherness" that translates so easily into inferiority. It is a fact that a blind person has either no or severely diminished visual capability. But the social construct of disability wraps that fact up with facts about many unrelated conditions that don't apply, and conflates them with stereotypes and traits that have little to no basis in reality. People who don't have direct experience with disability then rely on that shared "understanding" when making decisions that will potentially impact other people. I'm very hesitant to compare the social construct of gender to that of disability; I'm still not sure I wholly understand the key concepts of the latter, and I think it's a subject on which it would behoove me far more to listen than to speak. However, I think I can address the conflation of all types of disabilities into a massive social understanding of Disability. I've heard it said that transgender acceptance rides on the coattails of LGB acceptance. There are simply too few of us to stand up on our own, and the only reason we receive as much attention as we do is because LGB people stood up for us and continue to do so. Most people, if they think of us at all, do so only as the “T” in “LGBT”. This causes assumptions that being trans is pretty much just another sexuality, which leads us into... Trans People and Sexuality (Rather than quote the whole thing, I'm just going to link to Falconier's post about disability and sexuality so yall can refer back to it and see what I'm responding to.) This is the big one, and the thing that really inspired me to do all this writing. It should be obvious, but this section contains explicit discussion of sex and sexuality, so don't read it if such things bother you. The societal view of trans people is inherently sexual, in direct contrast to the view of disabled people. As mentioned above, people assume it's connected to sexuality when gender identity and sexuality are two wholly different aspects of someone's personality. Everything we do is assumed to be sexually motivated. My genitalia are considered to be a free topic of discussion for anyone to weigh in on or ask about. One of the most well-known portrayals of trans people in media is the character Poison from Street Fighter. She looks like this:  (For screen readers: The image is of the character Poison from the video game Street Fighter. She is a curvaceous woman clad in a bra, unbuttoned denim hotpants, high heels, and a policeman's hat; she has very long pink hair and is carrying a riding crop.) One of the most common transphobic slurs online, one that seems to be exempt from the realization of harm I mentioned when talking about the euphemism treadmill above, is “trap”. The entire reasoning behind the word is that trans women are just gay men dressing up as women to trick straight men into having sex with them. (Incidentally, when I Googled for that picture of Poison, one of the suggested searches was “is Poison a trap”.) I am not even attracted to men. I identify as a trans lesbian. Everything I do to assist with my gender expression is still assumed by ignorant people to have the end goal of getting a man to gently caress me. Trans people in police procedurals like CSI and Law and Order are almost universally portrayed as either prostitutes or perverts. We are sex objects first and foremost. Oh, and about the “object” part of that phrase... I can count on one hand the number of portrayals of trans people with healthy relationships I am aware of. On this side, my experience has much more in common with yours. We are sexual, but not domestic. It is assumed that we cannot or do not want to have children. We are not candidates for love or marriage; we are toys, to be played with and then tossed aside by the narrative. We run into the same problem that, when someone does attempt to portray realistic trans sexuality, it's labeled as pornography (and this extends to the rest of LGBT+ people as well; movies featuring homosexual affection, especially between men, are routinely given a more restrictive rating by the MPAA than movies featuring heterosexual affection at the same level). We are simultaneously desirable and disgusting. People view us sexually, but refuse to admit it. So that's where it stands. On the surface, we are sexualized where disabled people are desexualized, but when you dig deeper, you find the same societal issues. If you are Different, then you are unworthy, and anyone who loves you is doing you a favor. Conclusion Well, that was a lot of words, wasn't it? The more I delved into the subjects, the more I found to say, certainly more than I expected when I started. I think, while these differences and similarities are fascinating to examine, at the end of the day, we've all got to stick together. Intersectionality is so, so important; as far as I'm concerned, my fight isn't over until every person alive has achieved perfect equity, not just transgender people. No one should have to struggle because of things outside of their control. Thank you again for writing this, Falconier, and thank you again, everyone else who's contributed. I'm glad for the opportunity to listen to you and better understand your needs. I respect you all immensely; I hope you derive some value from what I've written here, and I look forward to reading more as the LP continues. Solidarity. Chloe Jessica fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Nov 9, 2021 |
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Nov 9, 2021 01:33
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I'm in the weird situation that I remember this, and I remember what happens at the very end of the route, but I've got no clue what happens in between or why any of this happened. So it's been interesting seeing the breadcrumbs that hint that something's off. There were pretty clearly signs that something was up with Misha earlier. She started refusing to sign with Hisao right after he and Shizune had a shrimp BBQ. And that's also when things got super awkward with Shizune. Is Misha acting on a long-repressed crush for Hisao? Is this some 4d chess maneuver to get back at Shizune for ignoring her? Is she just depressed and lonely because it's weird hanging out with the two of them when they're dating? I dunno! But yeah, this route is... not great. I still think communication is probably supposed to be the theme, but there's only been a couple of scenes where anything seemingly plot relevant comes up. I'm pretty sure Shizune's route is the first one I played, and I remember it being distinctly bad from a gameplay perspective. It's easy to stumble into accidently, there aren't many decisions the player makes, and for this one at least the "correct" choice is extremely obvious and doesn't make you consider any of the rest of the route. I keep contrasting it with Hanako's route, where Falconier did an excellent job breaking down the way you have to read between the lines and understand that Hisao can be an unreliable narrator. I wish there was more we could talk about theme-wise, but there just really hasn't been much in this route. It's really obvious sometimes that the routes had different writers  (I hope it's not a spoiler that you're not supposed to cheat on your girlfriend!)
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Nov 9, 2021 03:58
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Chloe Jessica posted:good post (CW for medical talk and discussion of pregnancy) Good post. I'll chime in briefly as a disabled trans guy: because there's so little research into HRT for trans people, I've had a lot of pushback on the idea of starting T because no-one knows how it'll affect my body. (My psych and neurologist theorise it could actually improve my condition, but not to the point of actually prescribing it because I live on Plague Terf Hell Island.) Also re agency, as I'm sure even cis women in this thread could probably tell you, trying to convince doctors that I am not interested in becoming pregnant, despite a) being a man and b) being married to a woman, is basically impossible. Because what if I change my mind? Is this thread the one where we talked about the "privilege of risk"? I think about that a lot. Neither disabled nor trans people are given the privilege of risk; we are assumed not to be able to consent to things that our abled/cis counterparts can. I might change my mind, sure, but, like...so? People do inadvisable, permanent things to their bodies all the time. Why can't I?
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Nov 9, 2021 14:06
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I think this route doesn't even qualify as a romance, because there's been nothing happening at all after the first act. Hisao treats Shizune like a pinball machine rather than a partner, focused on learning how to play and score points. Maybe that's the point? The route is a portrayal of a lovely teenage relationship between two people that aren't really emotionally ready or compatible but just want companionship? In which case cheating (I'm assuming comfort doesn't mean making her a warm cup of Ovaltine) with Misha would fit pretty well. Not cheating and having the relationship die anyways would also work. Maybe that's why this choice isn't feeling particularly meaningful to me.
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Nov 9, 2021 14:17
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Ibblebibble posted:There is that one yandere character with an obsession about Komi that leads to the early Tadano abduction arc but at least she's chilled out in the last 300 chapters. I’m so glad Falconier mentioned KCC, and that you also mentioned that character as well- I cannot stand her, and she feels like a weird artifact of an excellent series. I read the first 10 volumes as this thread was starting up at the library, while clients also did their thing, so I was in the mood to talk a lot about neurodivergent and related issues. I need to read (and watch) more of this series, but I will say that I freaking love Tadano, no matter how much the rest of the cast besides Komi doesn’t care. The rub about his character is that really is an average joe, he is also the right Student Council President. Why? Because his ability to read and understand Komi doesn’t just end there. He is able to anticipate and connect with people in his class (though not participate himself, as a form of comic tragedy) with every character, boy or girl, associations and traits and quirks being irrevelant. He’s amazing at empathy, and while not as forceful or filled with agency as other characters, he kinda..carved out his own place in the plot by not doing so? He’s so great. This is what I hope for eventually in Hisao…and I feel like he’s both flaky and insecure in one way….or insecure together with Shizune in the current story…or does have this inner assurance, which is why Misha is interested in him as well now. It does feel good that I cannot find a significant fault in his thinking or dealing with neurodivergency yet, which is a really nice trend.
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Nov 9, 2021 16:17
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mycelia posted:Also re agency, as I'm sure even cis women in this thread could probably tell you, trying to convince doctors that I am not interested in becoming pregnant, despite a) being a man and b) being married to a woman, is basically impossible. Because what if I change my mind? It actually can get even worse. I've had two different doctors, including a gynecologist, refuse to put me on birth control medication I said I wasn't intending to use it to prevent pregnancy. The reason I was asking is because my cycle was getting pretty off track and I was hoping that birth control would help regulate it again. But that didn't matter to them apparently! Thankfully, I have since regulated, but there was a point where I felt ashamed asking for a medicine from a trained professional and they made me feel stupid for asking. I can imagine it's worse for a lot of other people in far worse situations. @Chloe Jessica-Excellent post and a really interesting read!
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Nov 9, 2021 16:25
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Solidarity. We may have different circumstances, but we’re both oppressed groups that suffer under vicious misconceptions. I’d also like to point out that autistic people are something like five times more likely to be trans than neurotypicals, so at the very least we’re kin in that respect. Decoy Badger posted:I think this route doesn't even qualify as a romance, because there's been nothing happening at all after the first act. Hisao treats Shizune like a pinball machine rather than a partner, focused on learning how to play and score points. When I first played this route, I actually kind of liked this. All the other relationships in this game are fast, intense, and extremely dramatic, usually with life-shaking consequences for one or both parties. It’s emotionally compelling and makes for great stories, but that’s not how teenagers work most of the time. Hisao and Shizune are two high schoolers with little romantic experiences who are attracted to each other and enjoy spending time together, so they decide to awkwardly date. It’s not an intense relationship because lots of high school relations aren’t intense, especially when they start up in senior year. But the writing doesn’t build on that concept and some of Shizune’s actions go beyond the pale, so it’s almost irrelevant. Chloe Jessica posted:. First if all, EXCELLENT post. Second, it’s the same principle that lets parents subject disabled children to dangerous “miracle cures”, or isolate deaf kids from effective schooling and leave them struggling to communicate, or deny their children vaccines because when given the choice they’d rather they die of a preventable disease than be autistic, or (as we saw recently) control their children through their adult lives through conservatorship on the basis of a disability. It’s an enormous issue and I have no idea where to start fighting it, but this isn’t the first time I’ve seen people discussing children’s rights so at least they’re entering the conversation. Chloe Jessica posted:This is a problem that the queer community in general has managed to overcome. The slurs we are dealing with have been the same for almost twenty years, and the reclamation movement is huge and very successful. As the public at large came around to the idea of “hey, maybe queer people should just be allowed to live their lives”, the stigma around terms like “gay” faded away, and they became an accepted part of the lexicon. There's no better example of this than the word “queer” itself. Most polite company will exclude someone for using homophobic and transphobic slurs in ways they don't for ableism, including here on SA. People seem to have understood why the words are harmful even with no malice behind them, and I don't get why it's so difficult to extend that empathy to cover ableist slurs as well. Honestly? Their use as insults. If you want to say someone else can’t understand something you think is obvious, you call them an idiot or a moron; if you want to say they missed something they shouldn’t have, you call them blind. The perception of Less runs so deep in the English language that trying to dislodge it runs into the same issue you mentioned with trans rep: plenty of people see challenging their use of that language as a challenge to themselves, so they respond deeply negatively. It’s a tragedy of the human condition that many people would choose a broader selection of insults over treating people like human beings, but that’s the nature of society right now. Also, if there are any neurodivergents in the thread looking for work that won’t abuse them, we’re recruiting for the next wave of the hiring program. Send me a PM letting me know you’re interested and I’ll give you the rundown. There’s only a few days left before the window closes, though. Falconier111 fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Nov 9, 2021 |
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Nov 9, 2021 20:30
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I do want to point out that medical regulations are written in both blood and debilitating injuries. The medical community is slow to adopt new treatments for very good reasons. Novel therapies from trusted companies have killed or injured people even with decent testing, so physicians tend to be very wary, especially if the current therapy “works.” The gender discrimination is, however, bullshit.
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Nov 9, 2021 21:18
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It’s that time again, folks! We have another round of  posts to work into the OP, and I’d like to lay out exactly what happens next. This isn’t the most natural stopping point but we have the end of the route coming up and a huge backlog, and I’d at least like to get everything out of the way now. Nidoking, Zeron, Ghost Car, Explopyro, Marluxia, Dareon, Psycho Lawnmower, mycelia, EclecticTastes, SimplyUnknown1, disposablewords, Violet_Sky, Dirk the Average, you’ve all made posts that warrant inclusion and have already given ongoing permission. This is just a courtesy call to let you know in case you have anything you want to change, exclude, or limit before it goes into the OP. Just let me know via PM or in the thread.Dire Lemming, Omniphile, Karia, Mix., Chloe Jessica, you also made posts that qualify for inclusion in various ways, but I haven’t received permission from you yet so you get the full spiel. Same goes for Haifisch, Renessia, Poll, and SpruceZeus, since I never got confirmation from you. I need your permission in the thread or through a PM to put your posts in the OP. I have a background in oral history, and I know drat well how sensitive information about a person’s disabilities is from a legal and moral standpoint. But I can’t really apply the full set of ethical standards to this thread without it getting ridiculous, so this is my compromise with myself. You can give me permission just to use those specific posts in the OP or give it for any of your posts going forward; in the latter case, say specifically that  you grant me permission to use your posts in this thread going forward unless you specifically say otherwise . And I mean it - you can tell me at any time to take this stuff down and I will. I’ve also set up a backup for this LP on AO3 in case something goes wrong over here before I complete it and it enters the LP Archive; while I will upload the text of your posts there, I’ve settled on using abbreviated versions of people’s usernames there to preserve some anonymity, and you can request I make your records there anonymous or leave them out entirely. Or let me use your full username over there if you want, whatever. You keep the same rights over your information as you get here, too. You can contact me via PM or in the thread at any time with requests or further questions.
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Nov 10, 2021 03:03
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you have permission to use my posts going forward in this thread and on AO3, or any other mirror you create for the LP. im glad to have contributed. 
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Nov 10, 2021 03:07
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I feel like the post in question that I made probably doesn't merit inclusion since I didn't really go into a lot of detail or anything, so I dunno what other people could get out of it  I do have a... "condition", I guess? that I've been kinda tossing back and forth talking about because it both hasn't come up in this thread yet but is also a thing that doesn't have much internet presence last time I looked into it (and for people who DO talk about it they get weirdly ableist about it in relation to people who aren't them so that's kind of a yikes situation), but I'll probably save it for when we get into Rin's route because it's a bit more appropriate there.
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Nov 10, 2021 03:37
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Yeah go ahead. You can use any of my posts in this thread unless I say otherwise.
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Nov 10, 2021 04:12
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Ibblebibble posted:There is that one yandere character with an obsession about Komi that leads to the early Tadano abduction arc but at least she's chilled out in the last 300 chapters. Oh right, how could I forget... Yamai, I think her name was? I guess because they eased off on her really  aspects pretty quickly... for the most part. The manga has a trope that comes up a lot where a character is introduced and it's like "oh no, they seem scary: are they bad? No wait, they're just misunderstood; actually they're really nice." Only the bad stuff never quite entirely went away with Yamai.So yeah, now that you mention it, I'm not a fan of Yamai either. Considering how much of Komi Can't Communicate there is, though - and just how many characters there are - a few not-great minor characters isn't bad going. Overall I like the tone of it a lot.
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Nov 10, 2021 12:58
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Update 79: Look Ahead (Act 3, Scenes 12-13) Another content warning: suicidal thoughts. (Silence) .png)  MISHA: "Please comfort me, Hicchan. Just for today." >Comfort Misha. >Refuse. This is the only choice in Shizune’s route, and it may be the most infamous choice in the whole game. Normally I’d be a bit cagier about the repercussions of major choices, but not now. Why?Because here, “comfort” means “have sex with her”, and it both triggers a sex scene with her and takes you straight down to the Bad Ending. That stunned and dismayed a lot of players who read the choices as “talk her through her issues and make her feel better” and “coldly give her the boot”: they picked the first option and belatedly realized they’d overestimated Hisao’s strength of character. The aftermath was a nasty shock to them and I think disenchanted a lot of people who still liked the route. =>Refuse. We won’t be doing that. Before I can answer, she pushes her whole weight against me, and it unbalances me enough to send us both onto the bed. If I don't answer quickly, then the situation will only become more precarious. I know that I should have never let things get as tangled as they already are. So, even though it isn't the most tactful way to refuse her, I push her off of me. Misha falls backwards onto the sheets, so softly that it seems like she barely fell at all. Eyes closed, she stays like that for a while, before getting up with a hollow laugh. Katawa Shoujo OST - Breathlessly .png) MISHA: "You're right, Hicchan. I'm sorry." The screen goes dark as Hisao closes his eyes. I'm not sure how I feel. Regretful, slightly, even though I've grown to hate regret. Sad, for a multitude of reasons. I'm also a little angry, both at her and at myself. And in a way, it even seems like I'm not really feeling at all.  HISAO: "Don't be." MISHA: "No, Hicchan. It's okay~. I am, really, really~. But... just asking was enough for me, I think. I'm happier that you said no." HISAO: "Is that right? Well, that's good." MISHA: "Yeah~, it is. Thanks, Hicchan." She pulls herself up and leans against the wall. I'm assuming she is. My head hurts so much that I don't bother opening my eyes. I lie on my bed, listening to the rustle of my hair brushing against the sheets and the grass waving in the wind outside. I guess that I should say more to reassure her, but I wonder if that would really help. Maybe it would be better to say nothing. I just don't know, although I think that in this situation, there's no one right thing I can do. MISHA: "Goodnight, Hicchan." With that, she leaves, the door clicking shut behind her like a guilty whisper. (Silence) Maybe it's because I'm eager to put today behind me, but after Misha is gone, I find it much easier to fall asleep. I do so almost instantly. Katawa Shoujo OST ~ Passing of Time .png) Katawa Shoujo OST - Nocturne The following morning, I wake up thinking that most of my time is going to be spent trying to avoid Shizune and Misha. What happened last evening still makes me feel uneasy. I'd thought that sleeping on it would help alleviate that feeling. I feel like an idiot for believing it would be that easy. I think about whether or not Misha might feel the same way. If so, she probably won't show up to school today. I'd considered doing the same, but it would be pretty suspicious, and staying inside all day in fear doesn't appeal to me. It never really has. Like I thought, Misha isn't in class this morning. Shizune is, but today is a busier day than most, so she gives her all concentrating on her classwork, and that means there's little idle time for her to start up a conversation with me. I'd grown so used to seeing Shizune and Misha together that I hadn't realized until yesterday how much that hasn't been the case lately. And it's a shame, because the empty seat next to her reminds me that they are a pair. So, yesterday is something I'll take to my grave. If I feel this way about it, I wonder how Misha must feel. Just as regretful? When she came on to me, she was more depressed than sexy to start with. I can only imagine how much worse it would be now. Thinking about it like that, I want to see her again. But only halfheartedly. The other half of me is still terrified, even though I hate to use that word. It makes me feel ashamed, but I'm sure it's the only way to describe myself right now. I spend the next couple periods in the library, not in the mood to sit in classes for the rest of the day, but unwilling to walk back to the dorms. .png) While I'm lazily flipping through the pages of an uninteresting historical fiction novel, Shizune drops herself into the chair across from me, pouting.  SHIZUNE: “[I think it's sort of pointless to come to school and then skip every class.]" HISAO: “[Sorry.]" SHIZUNE: “[At least tell everyone that you're sick.]" HISAO: “[I'm just not feeling it today. Yesterday I was fine, though. Tomorrow, I'll probably be fine. Taking a sick day in the middle of the week is just too suspicious. That “24-hour flu” thing or whatever won't fly.]" SHIZUNE: “[It's not suspicious.]" HISAO: “[It is.]" I turn back to my book, but Shizune gently pulls it down, in contrast with her expression, which straddles the line between concern and anger. SHIZUNE: “[Is something wrong?]" HISAO: “[What?]" SHIZUNE: “[Is something bothering you? Because you're acting a little suspicious today, in a different way. If there is, just tell me, or I'll be mad. I'm not good at reading people.]" What a ridiculous thing to say, after picking up my mood so easily. She is only half-kidding, but there is some truth in it. After all, she can't hear tone, and has to rely on reading to communicate with others. It's as if you could only ever have conversations with someone through text messages. That has to mess with you in some way. It's probably why she stares so intently at people, in order to gauge their reaction. Or maybe it's why she pushes people so hard, to get them to react. I've thought about it before, but it's too hard to say for sure what Shizune's exact motivations are for anything. So, I wonder how much of that was a joke. Sometimes, it's easy to tell. This time, it isn't. Assuming it wasn't a joke, I can't tell her anyway. Because it's sign language, there is enough time to collect myself and lie effectively. HISAO: “[Nothing.]" SHIZUNE: "..." HISAO: “[I've just been thinking a lot about the Student Council's future, lately. I believe Misha is doing the same... well, in her own way.]" SHIZUNE: “[So am I, but she isn't here today. I wish she would have let me know something, because I might need her help later today. Yours too, unless you're busy.]" HISAO: “[I'm not...]" .png) SHIZUNE: “[Thank you. I feel like I'm losing a lot of people close to me, lately.]" I can't think of a good way to respond to that. Something reassuring and confident, telling her not to worry. “I'm here for you. I'm not one of those people.” Then, who is? And it seems so forced. I manage a wave of my hand that seems extremely callous as soon as I do it. HISAO: “[You shouldn't feel that way.]" SHIZUNE: "..." HISAO: “[I might be just a little sick, not enough to go through the trouble of making it official. It's just easier for me this way.]" SHIZUNE: “[It's the wrong way.]" I've heard the hard way and the right way are usually the same thing, so it's not a big stretch to say that the opposite is true. SHIZUNE: “[Well, fine. If you say you are all right, that's good enough for me.]" HISAO: “[Wait.]" SHIZUNE: "...?" HISAO: “[You asked me, so I'm turning it around. Is everything okay with you?]" SHIZUNE: “[Yes.]" (Silence) She signs it without a moment's hesitation. After that, Shizune waits to see if I'm going to follow up on it. I don't, and she leaves. I feel like an idiot for not going further, even though I think it's better that I didn't. I've been in the library for quite a while, and decide to go up to the roof for a change of pace. (Wind Blowing) A fresh breeze hits me the second I open the door. This is really my favorite area of the school, I think. Then I see that I'm not the only one here. I can see a girl with bubblegum-pink hair in front of me. Her back is to me, but I don't have to see her face to know who it is. I'm sure Misha is the only person in the world with hair like that. I get the feeling that I've stumbled on her at a bad moment. She obviously wants to be alone, and I wonder if she hasn't noticed my presence. If so, I'll leave right now. But she has, and turns to face me. Katawa Shoujo OST - Shadow of the Truth .png) MISHA: "Oh, Hicchan. I thought someone was behind me, but I didn't think it was going to be you. This time, you surprised me." If she's referring to her habit of sneaking up behind me and asking me to guess who it is... I've never been surprised by that. HISAO: "I'm surprised, too. But this is good. I had something I wanted to talk to you about, anyway." MISHA: "..." HISAO: "Not that... "What's going on between you and Shizune? She won't tell me, so I'm asking you." “Because you're easier to get an answer out of, since the same sign language that gives me the leeway to lie to her gives her a cushion against my questions, so that she can more easily brush them off.” When she hesitates, I push her harder. HISAO: "Give me an honest answer, please." MISHA: "It's complicated, Hicchan... It's because of something that happened a long time ago. I thought I could just forget about it, but~... it's really hard. So~, that and graduation coming up made me want to spend more time with Shicchan~!" .png) MISHA: "But Shicchan is always busy now. So~! We've been fighting. But, I'm tired of it now. Because~... I like Shicchan." HISAO: "So do I." MISHA: "Wahaha~. No, no~. I know you like her, Hicchan. I mean that I like Shicchan in the same way." .png) MISHA: "I want her to be my girlfriend." Misha closes her eyes, like a condemned criminal confessing the last of their sins in front of the executioner. It only makes it harder for me to think of a response, and I know I have to give one. HISAO: "I see. I never knew." MISHA: "I didn't really want to come to this school, Hicchan~. But it sounded interesting, and even if everyone hated me, at least it felt like they would leave me alone. I was learning sign language, but wasn't very good at it~. Shicchan was trying to get people to join the Student Council, because it was only her and Lilly. Then, she came up to me. I couldn't understand her at all~. But~! Shicchan wouldn't use her pen and paper. She knew that I was taking sign language classes. I was exposed quickly, I didn't know any~... That only made her try harder, and I hated Shicchan and thought she was making fun of me. That wasn't the reason, though~... So~! I slowly fell in love with Shicchan, and I told her... that I loved her." .png) Note Misha’s long brown hair in this picture. MISHA: "It was in the student council room, you know. When it was just the two of us. I had these fantasies of Shicchan staying alone in the office, trying to put everything together all by herself. It seemed so lonely to me, and so sad~. I think I wanted it to be that way~. That way, I could be there for Shicchan, and maybe Shicchan would like me. Even though there was no reason for me to believe it, I did anyway. I wanted it to be true, so I was okay with letting myself believe it, even though I think I knew. That day was really, really~ beautiful, too, Hicchan~. We were done with everything, and I was looking out through the window. Even through the window, the light was so warm~... I wanted to stay like that forever, next to Shicchan. But~! Then I looked at Shicchan, and she had her back to the window and was still working on something, blocking out the rest of the world. The light was on her shoulders, like when I would put a blanket on my shoulders as a little kid." Misha stops for a second as if trying to hold onto the image of Shizune in her mind. MISHA: "Shicchan looked... hm~... It was like, Shicchan looked in a way that made me want to be with her... But it felt like it would be hard for that to happen. Wahaha~. That was~, a really~ long~ time ago. My hair was different back then, too. A little messy~? I cut it because Shicchan was always talking about it. Anyway~! I told her, right then and there; I confessed~. I was rejected~. So~, I thought that that was it, Hicchan. But Shicchan was always trying to find me, and I hated Shicchan again for it. And when I asked her why she was doing it, it was because I was her friend.” .png) Her cheeks have a hint of red in them. I wonder how much experience she has had with crying, that she can keep herself from doing it so well. If she didn't pause to wipe her eyes, I might never have noticed. MISHA: "Having Shicchan say that made me happy, but also sad, and even though she never meant to hurt me, it still hurts. Even now... Shicchan has a way of manipulating people, Hicchan. Sometimes she wants to, and sometimes she doesn't really, but it happens anyway~. And sometimes I'm just not sure... exactly which one it is. And I feel doubt... I just wish that Shicchan liked me instead of you. It made me wonder if I was starting to hate you and Shicchan... just a little. I... didn't like that." HISAO: "So you were thinking, maybe it would be better if I weren't here at all?" She looks confused. The thought has never crossed her mind. MISHA: "That's not it, Hicchan. I thought about it a lot these last few days, and I don't want to hate anyone. You, or Shicchan. It's so stupid that I ever felt like that, isn't it, Hicchan? I don't want to think about that kind of stuff ever again. And missing people, and being apart from them; I'm tired of it, and don't want to think about it any more.” .png) MISHA: "I already did, though. So~! ...I'm still really the worst kind of person. I wasn't thinking that it would be better if Hicchan had never come to this school. I was thinking... wouldn't it be better if I just died?" (Sudden Silence) Misha presses herself harder against the fence at her back, as if hoping to slip right through it. (Wind Noises) .png) Without really thinking about it, I grab her hand. My reflexes are terrible, and I manage to only grasp onto a few of her fingers, but it's unimportant. Katawa Shoujo OST - Caged Heart HISAO: "Sorry. It's just that you said something pretty weird just now." MISHA: "Hahaha~. Yeah~, I guess that's right, Hicchan." HISAO: "Yeah. Do you want to know what I think? Shizune is the type of person who won't let anyone close to her except on her terms. It's frustrating, sometimes it's even infuriating. That probably would have bothered me, when I was in the hospital and anyone who shut me out was dead to me. I'd forgotten all about it until recently. I got a letter, and it was all about that. I was mad. I thought, “How can you accuse me of closing myself off from everyone and giving up? Isn't that what everyone else did to me? What else am I supposed to do? What can I do?” Yeah, even now, I know that's how it happened, but... she was right, too. I did close myself off. So, I made up my mind that I'm not going to let that be the case ever again." MISHA: "The hospital? Hicchan... what are you..." HISAO: "Just listen, please. Shizune is the opposite of how I was. She has always wanted to draw people closer to her. That's the only reason Shizune was interested in me in the first place, I think. And I think I was determined to not let that happen, in a way." Misha casts her eyes downwards, understanding perfectly. HISAO: "I never realized how hard that can be. And now, I feel like I'm going to return the favor, even if it takes twice as long. I already learned a second language just to get this far. It wasn't as hard as I thought, but it was definitely hard. Sometimes, I felt like I was clawing my way up a mountain, with how my hands hurt. And you did the same thing. And it was for the same reason, wasn't it? That's really amazing. Which is why it makes me sad, and a little angry, that you would say a stupid thing like that." MISHA: "..." HISAO: "That's just what I believe, anyway." Her shoulders slump, and Misha almost slides to the floor, like she is drained of all energy. MISHA: "You're too dramatic, Hicchan." She says, while looking away, turning her head almost as if she wants to look out at the school grounds, but not turning it enough to do so. MISHA: "Wahaha~." (Sudden Silence) The door behind us opens, the sound only barely able to be heard over the ambient breeze. .png) SHIZUNE: “[I've been looking everywhere for you two. Is this some secret meeting?]" She walks over to us, leaning against the fence next to Misha as if she needs to stop and catch her breath, before pushing herself off it and continuing. SHIZUNE: “[I'm bored sitting in the student council room every day now, without either of you ever coming by. Taking some time off is fine, but this is just too much.]" Normally, Misha and I would be jokingly making excuses for ourselves at this point. This time, there's only silence. Shizune, always expecting resistance, is thrown off balance by the lack of it. A few seconds pass in uneasy silence, which Shizune breaks with an ear-shattering snap of her fingers, smiling as if to say “eureka.” SHIZUNE: “[Let's go do something together.]" HISAO: "Like what?" SHIZUNE: “[Anything! We should go to the student council room first, and then figure it out from there.]" HISAO: "That seems like a trick to get us to do work instead." SHIZUNE: “[Very funny.]" Katawa Shoujo OST - Comfort Misha laughs, managing to let out a restrained “wahaha.” That Shizune can't see it makes me feel better. It means that it wasn't only for her benefit. SHIZUNE: “[I was thinking that you both actually could help me with something. What else is there? We can't go out to eat. We already ordered in yesterday, and that was already breaking policy. Three days in a row would be unforgivable.]" MISHA: "But~! That was ordering in, Shicchan~! Going out to eat is different." HISAO: "Yeah, totally different." SHIZUNE: “[You're both kidding yourselves.]" Before I can reply, Shizune grabs my hand, limiting my ability to do so. My options cut down so drastically, I have no choice but to settle for making a face at her instead. She makes one back, before extending her hand to Misha as well. When Misha is reluctant to take it, I walk forward as far as holding onto Shizune at the same time will allow me, and take her hand myself. MISHA: "...Hahaha." She only has a second to smile before Shizune starts pulling us impatiently towards the door, binding us together, like a human chain. .png) Although it's dangerous, none of us seem to think of letting go any step of the way through the school, out of the doors, and across the grounds. This feels familiar, as if we've walked like this before. The three of us, hand in hand. Of course, the mood was a lot happier then. I can see the lingering sadness on their faces, and it makes me wonder if anything has really changed. If this is all just a distraction or not. But I think it's just me slipping back into being cynical because of the moment. It's a start. END OF ACT 3 Falconier111 fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Nov 14, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 15:17
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I honestly wouldn't have guessed it would lead to a sex scene with Misha. I'd be pretty mad if that happened to me.
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Nov 10, 2021 15:44
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I don't get that complaint, that was clearly a sultry "Confort me physically" choice given the context and Misha's behaviour in the scene (dodging a kiss, "just for today" etc). It's a romance LN, you're always looking for romance tropes. At least it goes badly rather than being a switch route flag, as it should.
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Nov 10, 2021 16:09
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Falconier111 posted:Update 79: Look Ahead (Act 3, Scenes 12-13) Missing Misha line here?
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Nov 10, 2021 16:16
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Nothingtoseehere posted:I don't get that complaint, that was clearly a sultry "Confort me physically" choice given the context and Misha's behaviour in the scene (dodging a kiss and all). It's a romance LN, you're always looking for romance tropes. At least it goes badly rather than being a switch route flag, as it should. That's definitely how it read to me, but maybe less so to people who dont read that many VNs. It also runs into the ol' VN (and "dialogue in games" in general) problem of "wow! all these options suck!" Of course, making the "good" choice here (something along the lines of "okay you don't seem to be in a good place here, let's get you some water and you can tell me what's actually going on") wouldn't make for as much drama, so there's compromises, but I do think it's a particularly clumsily-handled choice, especially since it's the only one on the route. I'm still ruminating on how I feel about this development and the route overall. Mostly I feel really bad for Misha.
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Nov 10, 2021 16:17
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I expected the love triangle but I didn't expect it to be Shizune who was the center. Man, should have gone for Comfort Her to make this situation even weirder.
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Nov 10, 2021 16:34
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Count me among the naive people who thought comforting Misha meant giving her a pep talk lmao, it was a pretty shocking turn of events. Even by VN logic, I figured being on Shizune's route would prevent any sex scenes with any other characters, but then again I guess it really is Misha's route just as much as it is Shizune's.
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Nov 10, 2021 16:39
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she already tried to kiss him though lol
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Nov 10, 2021 16:42
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Uuuuuuhhhhhh. Rah rah bisexual rep, I guess? Except no, not like this, thanks very much. The last thing we need are more stereotypes about how bi people can't help themselves and wreck the hetero relationships around them. (Admittedly, I don't think there'd been much of any consciousness-raising about this harmful trope back when KS was being written, so I won't judge them quite as harshly for it as if this had been written today.) It would not have occurred to me to read that "comfort me" as a sexual proposition either. But then, I have noticed that, in general, the sex scenes in this have felt to me like they came out of nowhere, so I'm not sure this one is exceptional (I honestly can't tell if this is just an issue with me being somewhere on the demisexual/asexual spectrum, and they feel more reasonable to allosexual people, or there's actually a problem with the writing). There was room there to make this scene work - I think with a bit more branching dialogue, they could have made room for a scene where Hisao tries to actually comfort her before realising what she really wants, and then gets a second choice which would lead to the sex scene and bad ending? It's not hard to fix this, it just needs to give the player a bit more room to feel their way through it. Overall, though, this is just more weight on the side of "this route isn't very well-written, especially in comparison to the others".
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Nov 10, 2021 16:53
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I remember back when this came out, this revelation got some "jokes" - and then semi-serious discussion - that maybe Misha isn't there just to learn to teach signing, but got packed away to an obscure private school because she was gay. She does say something about not having wanted to come to this school, after all, and fearing everyone would hate her. Sure, there are much more straightforward readings of those lines supported textually, but also just enough ambiguity for those fan theories to thrive.
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Nov 10, 2021 16:53
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Explopyro posted:Uuuuuuhhhhhh. Rah rah bisexual rep, I guess? Except no, not like this, thanks very much. The last thing we need are more stereotypes about how bi people can't help themselves and wreck the hetero relationships around them. (Admittedly, I don't think there'd been much of any consciousness-raising about this harmful trope back when KS was being written, so I won't judge them quite as harshly for it as if this had been written today.) they're like 16-18 year olds and theres plenty of messy hetero drama in that age range, at least if my high school years were any indication
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Nov 10, 2021 16:54
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Nothingtoseehere posted:I don't get that complaint, that was clearly a sultry "Confort me physically" choice given the context and Misha's behaviour in the scene (dodging a kiss, "just for today" etc). It's a romance LN, you're always looking for romance tropes. At least it goes badly rather than being a switch route flag, as it should. It's not just a VN thing, anyone familiar with romantic dramas has seen a moment like that, and it almost always means "sex with very bad consequences". And having seen all the bad ends, I can say that the writers make sure the player knows that it's not really a fun time for either party involved. The whole scene ends up feeling uncomfortable and wrong, as it should. EDIT: Explopyro posted:Uuuuuuhhhhhh. Rah rah bisexual rep, I guess? The implication, actually, is that she's not bisexual, but that Hisao is just her only way to feel close to Shizune, and it makes the "comfort" scene feel all the more off-putting because Misha clearly isn't enjoying it on any level. EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 16:58
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Space Kablooey posted:Missing Misha line here? Nope, I got it right for once! I think the implication is that’s what he’s deliberately NOT saying, though he could.
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Nov 10, 2021 18:15
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Explopyro posted:But then, I have noticed that, in general, the sex scenes in this have felt to me like they came out of nowhere
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Nov 10, 2021 18:17
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