|
Flowers for QAnon posted:Have you considered people fill in the blanks for you, because you haven’t dedicated any critical thinking in doing so yourself? Have you considered your argument isn’t a special take, and everyone else is brutally aware of the logical fallacies of the idiocy you’re on the fence about regurgitating? I guarantee nothing you have to say is unique, yet your post sure does insinuate you think it is. I mean you think everybody is going to kill you so I’m not sure I trust your assessment of what most people believe
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 10:35 |
|
|
AcidCat posted:Yeah honestly the trend seems to be "we are the Good Guys" and "they are the Bad Guys" with no nuance, no shades of gray, just a complete binary either/or and if you have even one opinion that doesn't line up, you're one of THEM. There's certainly a lot of orthodoxy. Are there any independent thinkers in the public eye who neither the left or the right want to claim?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:09
|
|
|
ChunTheUnavoidable posted:I mean you think everybody is going to kill you so I’m not sure I trust your assessment of what most people believe I can see you’re a master of hyperbole
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:10
|
|
|
Flowers for QAnon posted:I can see you’re a master of hyperbole go post in the liberal opinion thread instead
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:12
|
|
|
Flowers for QAnon posted:I can see you’re a master of hyperbole Don’t worry my friend I will not hurt you
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:13
|
|
|
ChunTheUnavoidable posted:Don’t worry my friend I will not hurt you Imagine being able to both criticize, and do the thing you’re criticizing, all in one sentence, lol
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:15
|
|
|
gangtag posters performing exhaustive due diligence to determine whether the "o rly" owl was used too much on 4chan to make it ethically permissible to use as a reply the next time someone posts a conservative opinion itt
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:21
|
|
|
StrangersInTheNight posted:meh, that's kinda naive. Queer folks, disabled folks, BBIMP have been trying to have political discussions for decades and are shut down as trouble-makers, which is why fighting back was even necessary. The idea that things have been this sort of quiet blur for a for decades exists mostly within the white, heteronormative, privileged communities that attempt to insulate themselves, and part of how they do this is by not acknowledging any political sphere outside their own. people who endlessly advocate for their rights have been successfully forever branded in this country as hysterical blue-haired sjw's. i constantly hear from people online that "everyone is trapped in an echo chamber" or "won't listen to both sides" without having enough empathy to think, maybe they're misunderstanding people who are passionate about theirs and other's rights, and that maybe they aren't actually trapped in an echo chamber it's just you haven't bothered to ever step out of yours.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:22
|
|
|
Bonaventure posted:gangtag posters performing exhaustive due diligence to determine whether the "o rly" owl was used too much on 4chan to make it ethically permissible to use as a reply the next time someone posts a conservative opinion itt Is this a standard strawman, or actually similar to something that has happened? If the latter, source your quotes
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:25
|
|
|
it's called a joke
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:26
|
|
|
I think I would say I lean more conservative socially even though most of my political stances would probably be considered left-wing, but for six or seven years I was a very committed communist to the point where that was almost my entire IRL social circle, and I can definitely say from my own experience that the far left is incredibly insular and intolerant of any slight deviation of opinion. Every unorthodox view is made into a huge thing and painted as evil. I have much more productive conversations with people across the spectrum now that I’ve kind of chilled out and am not constantly stressing about people with different views from my own. Not saying everyone is like that on the far left but most of them are in my experience, myself included. Same goes for the far right though I assume
ChunTheUnavoidable fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Nov 9, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:28
|
|
|
Bonaventure posted:it's called a joke Strawman joke, got it. Nice dunk, super pwnage.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:29
|
|
|
ChunTheUnavoidable posted:I think I would say I lean more conservative socially even though most of my political stances would probably be considered left-wing, but for six or seven years I was a very committed communist to the point where that was almost my entire IRL social circle, and I can definitely say from my own experience that the far left is incredibly insular and intolerant of any slight deviation of opinion. Every unorthodox view is made into a huge thing and painted as evil. I have much more productive conversations with people across the spectrum now that I’ve kind of chilled out and am not constantly stressing about people with different views from my own. Not saying everyone is like that on the far left but most of them are in my experience, myself included. Same goes for the far right though I assume ah yes, conservatives, extremely well known for tolerating differences of opinion
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:32
|
|
|
Biohazard posted:
Oh yeah, definitely. When a doctor is telling you to take a pill/vaccine, it's probably a good idea to listen to him. I was thinking on a bigger scale, like ruling a country, where listening to one expert and imparting a set of rules might have some backlash from people.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:32
|
|
|
“I used to be a communist (hardcore), but the intolerant left is too much. Now I identify as socially conservative” - deepthinker69 (Go Aaron Rodgers!)
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:36
|
|
|
ChunTheUnavoidable posted:social circle, and I can definitely say from my own experience that the far left is incredibly insular and intolerant of any slight deviation of opinion. Most the communists I know, and being far left myself, are normal enough to understand most normies don't really know or understand politics much less political ideologies, so there's no need to insulate or not have friends or people outside your ideological circle. They certainly don't go out of their way to "wokescold" them or each other. Not so sure this is an inherent problem with the left. I think it says more about you and what sort of lifestyle you chose to cultivate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:37
|
|
|
Strange Poon posted:Most the communists I know, and being far left myself, are normal enough to understand most normies don't really know or understand politics much less political ideologies, so there's no need to insulate or not have friends or people outside your ideological circle. They certainly don't go out of their way to "wokescold" them or each other. Not so sure this is an inherent problem with the left. I think it says more about you and what sort of lifestyle you chose to cultivate. That’s fair. I would definitely say I was on the more extreme end of the spectrum where it gets almost cult-like. Flowers for QAnon posted:“I used to be a communist (hardcore), but the intolerant left is too much. Now I identify as socially conservative” I actually left because I was upset a lot of people in the main group I worked with were protecting a really scummy guy and his friends. Once I was out of the pressure cooker I kind of chilled out over a period of a couple years and started thinking more independently. I’m still friends with plenty of people from that time of my life who are still active politically though, mostly other people who quit at the same time as me ChunTheUnavoidable fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Nov 9, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:43
|
|
|
ChunTheUnavoidable posted:That’s fair. I would definitely say I was on the more extreme end of the spectrum where it gets almost cult-like. So you used a very situationally specific personal experience, decided to fully extrapolate it, and change your entire ideology while painting the one you left behind as intolerant?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:54
|
|
|
Flowers for QAnon posted:So you used a very situationally specific personal experience, decided to fully extrapolate it, and change your entire ideology while painting the one you left behind as intolerant? I didn't switch up my entire ideology as a reaction to that, I just slowly developed and changed my worldview over time the way most people do. It's just my own experience, but it's an attitude I still see a lot of on that end of the spectrum-- You, for example  E: One thing I would say I directly got from that experience was that I generally am a lot more understanding of how people can wind up with really bad views without necessarily being bad people. So much of our political ideology is just passively absorbed from people around us, much moreso than I think most people realize. ChunTheUnavoidable fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Nov 9, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:57
|
|
|
Ronald Reagan was a liberal and so is Ronald McDonald.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:58
|
|
|
Archer666 posted:Oh yeah, definitely. When a doctor is telling you to take a pill/vaccine, it's probably a good idea to listen to him. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6140023/ I wonder how many lives have been destroyed because of listening to a doctor telling you to take a pill? I wonder what other weird naive ill-placed faiths in 'authorities' have gone wrong before. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 18:58
|
|
|
Methanar posted:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6140023/ I had a vasectomy a couple weeks ago and without talking to me about it, the doc prescribed 20 hydrocodone (vicodin generic). 20 loving pills! I only needed 10, though. It was a really, really rough recovery 
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 19:14
|
|
|
Not An Arsonist posted:Whenever i get the chance to interject in political talk, i like to mention one of my core beliefs/concerns, that the biggest problem we're facing isn't necessarily political, but social. We've been taught for generations not to talk about politics, religion, and other sensitive subjects. And we're now to the point where we struggle to have reasonable discussions about difficult topics. Until we get over this barrier, and start respecting the individual will of others, progress really won't be made at any grand scale. And it's actually why this thread is sorta cool. StrangersInTheNight posted:meh, that's kinda naive. Queer folks, disabled folks, BBIMP have been trying to have political discussions for decades and are shut down as trouble-makers, which is why fighting back was even necessary. The idea that things have been this sort of quiet blur for a for decades exists mostly within the white, heteronormative, privileged communities that attempt to insulate themselves, and part of how they do this is by not acknowledging any political sphere outside their own. All too often that "no discussing" politics is a cudgel used to silence minorities. Strange Poon posted:people who endlessly advocate for their rights have been successfully forever branded in this country as hysterical blue-haired sjw's. i constantly hear from people online that "everyone is trapped in an echo chamber" or "won't listen to both sides" without having enough empathy to think, maybe they're misunderstanding people who are passionate about theirs and other's rights, and that maybe they aren't actually trapped in an echo chamber it's just you haven't bothered to ever step out of yours. I also find the idea of "not discussing politics" utterly absurd, especially in a post COVID world. We live in a political system. Every aspect of our lives from where we work, what we eat, where we live, what we do for leisure is influenced by politics. The only people making politics taboo either have an agenda, or enough privilege they have never had to think about how politics influences their life.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 19:20
|
|
|
ChunTheUnavoidable posted:I didn't switch up my entire ideology as a reaction to that, I just slowly developed and changed my worldview over time the way most people do. It's just my own experience, but it's an attitude I still see a lot of on that end of the spectrum-- You, for example You must realize that what you described in your previous post is very similar to the thought process used around the world by individuals to justify bigotry? Extrapolating a bad experience/anecdote to large groups of people isn’t sound reasoning, it’s reactionary. Also anyone using “intolerant left” really needs to understand the paradox of tolerance.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 19:23
|
|
|
Flowers for QAnon posted:You must realize that what you described in your previous post is very similar to the thought process used around the world by individuals to justify bigotry? Extrapolating a bad experience/anecdote to large groups of people isn’t sound reasoning, it’s reactionary. Also anyone using “intolerant left” really needs to understand the paradox of tolerance. I think basing worldview on experience isn’t necessarily a bad thing, most people probably do it for the majority of their views even if they convince themselves they’re totally unbiased and only think about the big picture. You’re right that it’s a component of bigotry, but only when applied to qualities with no inherent bearing on character, like race. I think ideology has a significant effect on our thinking and behavior so applying it to that is a very different thing. That said, you should never get to the point where your views are so solidified you can’t accept that someone doesn’t fit your concept of the world. You should strive to be able to adjust it as you have new experiences and meet new people
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 19:31
|
|
|
ChunTheUnavoidable posted:I think basing worldview on experience isn’t necessarily a bad thing, most people probably do it for the majority of their views even if they convince themselves they’re totally unbiased and only think about the big picture. This is where I have a strong divergence of opinion. I think basing worldview on experience is part of our animalistic, reactionary roots. Knowing anecdotes aren’t data, one should always be striving to fight untrue biases they may hold due to experience/emotion. Acknowledge your natural inclination is always going to be reactionary/emotional in nature, then challenge those notions. No one is above this or unbiased.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 19:39
|
|
|
Yeah I guess that’s the really fundamental split we have! I had similar views to you on it for a long time but now I think that imperfection is kind of built into us and is part of what makes us human, and we can try all we want to rise above it but we’ll ultimately just reproduce it in different, sometimes worse ways. Better to accept the positive aspects of it and at least be conscious of it so we can try to avoid the negative ones
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 19:42
|
|
|
Flowers for QAnon posted:This is where I have a strong divergence of opinion. I think basing worldview on experience is part of our animalistic, reactionary roots. Knowing anecdotes aren’t data, one should always be striving to fight untrue biases they may hold due to experience/emotion. Acknowledge your natural inclination is always going to be reactionary/emotional in nature, then challenge those notions. No one is above this or unbiased. Sure, we should base our worldview on data ideally, but doesn't that raise the question of whose data should be believed, fake news, and all that? All people get their data from a chosen source that is not neutral, so it seems a bit of a copout to think there's a way to find truth in an objectivity that doesn't exist. In which case, why not trust your gut?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 19:43
|
|
|
A Strange Aeon posted:Sure, we should base our worldview on data ideally, but doesn't that raise the question of whose data should be believed, fake news, and all that? All people get their data from a chosen source that is not neutral, so it seems a bit of a copout to think there's a way to find truth in an objectivity that doesn't exist. In which case, why not trust your gut? Because your gut is dumb as poo poo, and arguing their is no such thing as “truth” is dumber. Please enlighten me on how bigotry and racism are equally as valid as equality, because universal truth doesn’t exist.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 20:00
|
|
|
Flowers for QAnon posted:Because your gut is dumb as poo poo, and arguing their is no such thing as “truth” is dumber. Please enlighten me on how bigotry and racism are equally as valid as equality, because universal truth doesn’t exist. I'm saying people get their data from different places and draw different conclusions based on that. How do you convince someone that what they're getting their news of the world from isn't actually fair and balanced? How do you even convince a bigot that they're a bigot?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 20:03
|
|
|
A Strange Aeon posted:I'm saying people get their data from different places and draw different conclusions based on that. How do you convince someone that what they're getting their news of the world from isn't actually fair and balanced? How do you even convince a bigot that they're a bigot? That’s the magic question, and I’m not sure there is any way to convince someone. It truly takes an internal paradigm shift to go from “equal but different” to “people are people”. That’s why the current prevailing thought is that mockery is the only way to combat fascism.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 20:06
|
|
|
A Strange Aeon posted:Sure, we should base our worldview on data ideally, but doesn't that raise the question of whose data should be believed, fake news, and all that? All people get their data from a chosen source that is not neutral, so it seems a bit of a copout to think there's a way to find truth in an objectivity that doesn't exist. In which case, why not trust your gut? I am very suspicious of people who claim that their views on morality, governance, justice, etc. are derived from scientific data. I think they are deluding themselves. Beliefs on these subjects boil down pretty quickly to pure ideology. E.g. I don’t think there is a scientific study you can point to which concludes that you should value the life of your fellow man.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 20:06
|
|
|
silence_kit posted:I am very suspicious of people who claim that their views on morality, governance, justice, etc. are derived from scientific data. Beliefs on these subjects boil down pretty quickly to pure ideology. E.g. I don’t think there is a scientific study you can point to which concludes that you should value the life of your fellow man. You don’t think genetics provide proof of human equality as contrary to the opinion the POC are fundamentally different and have less value?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 20:09
|
|
|
Why are people arguing honestly with FfQ? lol
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 20:10
|
|
|
“Im a dumb loving retard” Thats my impression of everyone in this theead. Pretty good right? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 20:11
|
|
|
runnypoops posted:“Im a dumb loving retard” you just posted in this thread. so yes. gottem
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 20:12
|
|
|
Flowers for QAnon posted:You don’t think genetics provide proof of human equality as contrary to the opinion the POC are fundamentally different and have less value? You are going to have to explain your reasoning. Why do you think that the study of genetics supports egalitarian ideology?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 20:13
|
|
|
silence_kit posted:You are going to have to explain your reasoning. Why do you think that the study of genetics supports egalitarian ideology? Because melanin content doesn’t change your status as a human? “Races” are a social construct, not a genetic one? Now you go. Flowers for QAnon fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Nov 9, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 20:15
|
|
|
I think I’m ready to learn what bbimp means
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 20:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 10:35 |
|
|
StrangersInTheNight posted:meh, that's kinda naive. Queer folks, disabled folks, BBIMP have been trying to have political discussions for decades and are shut down as trouble-makers, which is why fighting back was even necessary. The idea that things have been this sort of quiet blur for a for decades exists mostly within the white, heteronormative, privileged communities that attempt to insulate themselves, and part of how they do this is by not acknowledging any political sphere outside their own. You aren't wrong, but I don't think people just screaming at each other is very productive either. Even some of the people this thread can't seem to do anything but immediately hurl insults at anyone they don't agree with. even if they are probably right, it's still an obnoxious way to be. I think people who spend all day dooming on c-spam and fighting with rednecks/Russian bots on twitter have had their brains melted and they think it's totally normal that 90% of their interactions are just calling everyone else stupid.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 20:24
|
|
