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Hellblazer187 posted:FWIW I don't think anyone is wrong for calling the economy bad right now, even if they personally have money. How many once in a lifetime recessions have we had? We're conditioned to always think the bottom is going to fall out at any moment. Cause it has, like a bunch of times.
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Nov 9, 2021 22:50
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I guess we'll see, but I'm not expecting much from the Democrats to be honest with you. Not trying to be a doomer; just realistic about the party and how it usually works. The bill passing would be great, but it's still woefully smaller than what should be passed. I expect the final product will be under 1T, with a full or partial SALT cap repeal and whatever trinkets they need to throw in to keep the CPC from killing it - probably focusing on child care.
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Nov 9, 2021 22:51
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Mellow Seas posted:I expect the final product will be under 1T, 1T over 10 years
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Nov 9, 2021 22:55
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Main Paineframe posted:If people are personally doing great but feel that the nation at large is doing terribly, I don't see why that's so hard to believe. People believe poo poo that isn't true all the loving time So you're saying that the nation is not doing terribly and people are delusional and wrong when they think it's bad? Right, I just want to understand what you're saying. Personally I think this is wrong, but my only evidence is my life and everyone I know. But then I guess that's what the pollsters and economists get paid the big bucks for, so they can look at this stuff objectively. edit - I look forward to "The economy is fine now" messaging being used to build support for re-opening student loans. Then "We're all paying loans again, so things must be normal" being used as evidence that the economy must be doing better, why else would we be paying back loans again. Sharkie fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Nov 9, 2021 |
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Nov 9, 2021 23:07
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Sharkie posted:So you're saying that the nation is not doing terribly and people are delusional and wrong when they think it's bad? Right, I just want to understand what you're saying. Personally I think this is wrong, but my only evidence is my life and everyone I know. But then I guess that's what the pollsters and economists get paid the big bucks for, so they can look at this stuff objectively. You miss the point in your first sentence, then follow up with a sick self-burn to reinforce that you missed his initial point just in case anyone wasn't sure. If you really didn't understand, then re-read his initial post you quoted again and check the second to last paragraph where he explicitly lays out the opposite of what you took away from it.
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Nov 9, 2021 23:14
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Any politician that does away with those lovely high power headlights and somehow stops robocalls will have a job for life.
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Nov 9, 2021 23:15
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At some point when discussing this poo poo one has to reckon with the fact that "the economy" isn't actually a real thing, just a gestalt social fiction so broad that it's functionally unrelated to many of the subsystems people tie to it. It shouldn't really be shocking that there's lots of widely varying interpretations of it in the electorate because they're being expected to describe something that doesn't really exist
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Nov 9, 2021 23:24
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:At some point when discussing this poo poo one has to reckon with the fact that "the economy" isn't actually a real thing, just a gestalt social fiction so broad that it's functionally unrelated to many of the subsystems people tie to it. It shouldn't really be shocking that there's lots of widely varying interpretations of it in the electorate because they're being expected to describe something that doesn't really exist That's literally the point of the whole conversation! The interesting thing was why the perception between "the economy" and your personal financial situation diverged for the first time in 2020 and has stayed that way.
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Nov 9, 2021 23:27
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this seems bad if true? https://twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1458139441151705091?s=20
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Nov 9, 2021 23:28
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:At some point when discussing this poo poo one has to reckon with the fact that "the economy" isn't actually a real thing, just a gestalt social fiction so broad that it's functionally unrelated to many of the subsystems people tie to it. It shouldn't really be shocking that there's lots of widely varying interpretations of it in the electorate because they're being expected to describe something that doesn't really exist "The economy" is people moving money around, and that sure as hell exists. "The internet" isn't a specific physical thing either, so I guess it also doesn't exist.
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Nov 9, 2021 23:29
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LionArcher posted:this seems bad if true? BREAKING: EXCLUSIVE: THREAD: Why would you believe that source at all
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Nov 9, 2021 23:32
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Fame Douglas posted:BREAKING: EXCLUSIVE: THREAD: The Twitter thread no, but I would be more inclined to believe the linked source showing an interview with an ABC Whitehouse correspondent who saw pictures.
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Nov 9, 2021 23:45
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readingatwork posted:I mean there is a chance that we heat up the seas to the point where we boil all the algae and make the air unbreathable but yes, I take your larger point. That said i think the idea that life will stay the same but get worse is a bit too optimistic. Things will definitely change in ways that cause mass death and major societal upheavals, even if they don’t happen all at once. To be clear: I did not say that life will "stay the same, but get worse". I said that life will continue, and get worse.
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Nov 9, 2021 23:54
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Yeah at this point it's super clear that the strategy was to squeeze Pence into submission so they could do the Eastman thing.
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Nov 9, 2021 23:55
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Mellow Seas posted:If Fetterman can put aside his personal biases (like, I doubt he's much more personally racist than Biden, or LBJ for that matter) and support policy that is broadly pro-racial justice while still giving the average non-college educated white American the impression that he's "like them" it could actually be huge. I hate to say "that he can be credibly described as a racist is an electoral benefit" but... I don't know how to finish that sentence. Reminds of this from a while back.... FMguru posted:They keep fishing around for a weakness to attack Biden with, and they're having no luck. So much conservative energy is driven by resentment of gays/women/minorities that they just flail completely when the target is a old straight white churchgoing dude. Basically: -Blackadder- posted:That tweet is hilarious. Between Biden and LBJ we really just need to run crotchety old white dudes who are actually stealth libs to ram our agenda through and call it a day. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 00:01
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Solkanar512 posted:The Twitter thread no, but I would be more inclined to believe the linked source showing an interview with an ABC Whitehouse correspondent who saw pictures. Some journalist trying to sell a book talking about seeing pictures of Pence in a loading dock is all we're getting from that interview. The rest of the narrative that Twitter account is pushing sounds like conjecture by a conspiracy theorist.
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Nov 10, 2021 00:04
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Sharkie posted:I think when you talk to people about how they feel that data doesn't matter, I don't know anyone who thinks yeah things own right now, this is great. I don't know why I should care about the data when it describes a world I cannot see or touch. So what are you saying here? Are you saying that the polls are fake or something? That the statistics and data are all fabricated? Because it very much seems like you think most people won't be fine paying back their student loans, yet you expect there to be polls saying that everyone will be fine paying back their student loans.
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Nov 10, 2021 00:14
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-Blackadder- posted:Most of my people are out in Pittsburgh. I'm not surprised the guy Fetterman chased down said he'd vote for him if he could. Black people care about tangible results (and a lot aren't feeling Harris too strongly). The problems the black community faces on a daily basis are nuanced. Standing on every single principle is a luxury that not everyone has where they live. This is part of why Liberals have so much trouble understanding black voters and are surprised by things like survey's showing black democrats support "defund the police" less than white democrats. If running Fetterman over Harris when the time comes will keep us from getting stomped out by DeSantis or whatever dead-eyed psycho inherits Trumpism you'll have plenty of black people on board. Yeah, if you consider the narratives that have been emerging during the Biden presidency (and since 2016 in general) Fetterman is practically a dream candidate. He absolutely shouldn't be written off as a potential face of the party because of that incident - especially if the alternative is Kamala or someone else uninspiring (Pete, Beto, Gillibrand, whoever). We'll know a lot more about what kind of future he has after this Senate race. \/\/\/\/\/ give me a loving break, man. I'm talking about a "dream candidate" in the sense that he could appeal to the kinds of voters Dems just lost 90-10 in Virginia, not that he's the best person in the world. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 00:18
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Mellow Seas posted:Yeah, if you consider the narratives that have been emerging during the Biden presidency (and since 2016 in general) Fetterman is practically a dream candidate. He absolutely shouldn't be written off as a potential face of the party because of that incident - especially if the alternative is Kamala or someone else uninspiring (Pete, Beto, Gillibrand, whoever). We'll know a lot more about what kind of future he has after this Senate race. This white man is definitely a dream candidate compared to other white men whoops we forgot to elevate anyone but white men. He's only a little bit racist and we don't yet know about his sexual assaults. Looking good!
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Nov 10, 2021 00:21
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I'm more concerned about establishment dems throwing the primary to Lamb than I am about Black voters supporting Fetterman. If there's one thing recent party actions have demonstrated, it's that they hate leftist candidates more than they hate warmed-over former republicans.
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Nov 10, 2021 00:25
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Good luck New York, turns out Eric Adams is deep into crypto. Teaching basic, modern home economics would be a major positive step in American education. But instead of preparing children for what they will really have to deal with in life, Adams is focusing on buzzwords and fads. https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1458064709932957696 https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1456331080559124480 Unsurprisingly Adams is unable to explain cryptocurrency or blockchain technology, and finds that they are meaningless to the young people he has spoken to. Not that he is going to let facts like that stop him, it's only encouragement to the type of true-born idiot that would shill for crypto in the first place. CNBC posted:In an interview with CNN’s “State of the Union,” Eric Adams said that bitcoin is the “new way of paying for goods and services throughout the entire globe” and that schools “must” teach the technology behind it, as well as “this new way of thinking.”
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Nov 10, 2021 00:27
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Willa Rogers posted:I'm more concerned about establishment dems throwing the primary to Lamb than I am about Black voters supporting Fetterman. Lamb is what establishment Dems want to pretend that non-college whites want, because he doesn't challenge wealth and power whatsoever. Fetterman is a lot more like what they actually want. It should be an interesting primary; the party will likely put their thumb on the scale but we'll have to see how much they do and how blatant they are about it.
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Nov 10, 2021 00:29
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Crypto is the most pathetic stupid loving thing. Good. Lord. 
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Nov 10, 2021 00:33
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Sharkie posted:So you're saying that the nation is not doing terribly and people are delusional and wrong when they think it's bad? Right, I just want to understand what you're saying. Personally I think this is wrong, but my only evidence is my life and everyone I know. But then I guess that's what the pollsters and economists get paid the big bucks for, so they can look at this stuff objectively. I don't think MP's post was vague enough to warrant this here, and also there was already one "source within the white house" type quote saying that this is already the reasoning. We'll see how it plays out but the notion that the arc of all this is to return to normal isn't a conspiracy, it's literally what everybody ran on
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Nov 10, 2021 00:40
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Deteriorata posted:"The economy" is people moving money around, and that sure as hell exists. You are describing commerce, which predates "the economy" by a whole lot. I'm sure the analogy there sounded pithy in your head but the internet is also a concept so sufficiently broad that no actual whole exists to discuss. If someone told you "the internet is really doing well this quarter" you'd hopefully recognize it as meaningless gibberish Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:That's literally the point of the whole conversation! I agree it's interesting, I don't think you and I are arguing about this in particular. My post wasn't directed at you, just chipping in my two cents. Not everybody else is on the same page as you can see
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Nov 10, 2021 00:42
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:You are describing commerce, which predates "the economy" by a whole lot. I'm sure the analogy there sounded pithy in your head but the internet is also a concept so sufficiently broad that no actual whole exists to discuss. If someone told you "the internet is really doing well this quarter" you'd hopefully recognize it as meaningless gibberish Your definition of "existence" is rather oddly limited and not particularly useful for any meaningful discussion.
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Nov 10, 2021 00:47
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Rebel Blob posted:Good luck New York, turns out Eric Adams is deep into crypto. Can't wait for him to try to solve a budget shortfall by selling an NFT of a picture of Madison Square Garden
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Nov 10, 2021 00:49
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Main Paineframe posted:If people are personally doing great but feel that the nation at large is doing terribly, I don't see why that's so hard to believe. People believe poo poo that isn't true all the loving time, and this vague general perception stuff is exactly where it tends to happen the most. I think the surprise isn't because of the situation itself so much as that there's not a readily apparent reason for the decoupling in perception. Is Gallup right that the shift in perception is probably driven by inflation, gas prices, worker shortages, and supply chain issues? Are posters here right when they suggest it's about perceptions of economic security? If someone's pushing a counterfactual narrative, who is it, what's the counterfactual, and and why would it be (per Gallup) primarily impacting the views of independents and not partisans? This is a situation where it's very easy for me, at least, to let my biases write the conclusion for me, because it's kinda hard to falsify an explanation without something more to go on. As far as your example, at first glance it looks more to me like support for the ACA started trending upward after the exchanges opened in 2014 and the administration got past that godawful rollout, the substantial drop in "don't know" happened during the final months of the election, not after, and what was really inconsistent was unfavorables. Just off of eyeball math, I wouldn't take it as given that events during Republican efforts to repeal it during spring and summer 2017 obviously drove the change. But assuming that they did, I don't really think that or the crime statistics are analogous to the economy question. The exact questions from the survey were: quote:How would you rate economic conditions in this country today -- as excellent, good, only fair, or poor? That's subject to a shift in perception as to what "economic conditions in the country" even means, in a way that "Is there more crime in my area than there was a year ago" or "do you generally have a positive or negative view of the health reform law passed in 2010" is not. Twenty years ago, I personally would've parsed what the question was even asking in a very different way. I think it's an open question, given what's been posted, how subjective or objective the factors driving the shift in perception might be. eviltastic fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 00:51
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Deteriorata posted:Your definition of "existence" is rather oddly limited and not particularly useful for any meaningful discussion. No, it's fine actually
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Nov 10, 2021 01:03
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Angry_Ed posted:Can't wait for him to try to solve a budget shortfall by selling an NFT of a picture of Madison Square Garden Can't wait for someone to send a decent chunk of the city budget to a random hacker
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Nov 10, 2021 01:08
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haveblue posted:Can't wait for someone to send a decent chunk of the city budget to a random hacker
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Nov 10, 2021 01:11
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I really dislike the trend I've seen amongst otherwise (seemingly) free thinking individuals suddenly exilerated at enriching themselves in this perceived cheeky rebellious way. drat have some vision guys. At the same time we already saw what "hippies" became, I know of some aged deadhead trumpists too in fact.
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Nov 10, 2021 01:17
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Rebel Blob posted:Good luck New York, turns out Eric Adams is deep into crypto. Can we get DeBlassio back now? I think New York might have made a mistake here.
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Nov 10, 2021 01:30
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I can explain crypto in 30 seconds or less: Computers do unnecessary math problems so the dumbest people in the world can have fake money.
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Nov 10, 2021 01:34
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BRJohnson posted:I really dislike the trend I've seen amongst otherwise (seemingly) free thinking individuals suddenly exilerated at enriching themselves in this perceived cheeky rebellious way. drat have some vision guys. Hippies were a minority counterculture among young boomers that by and large became a liberal (if sometimes out of touch) minority of old boomers. Don't mistake them for the straightlaced young Nixon/Reagan voters who adopted superficial "Yeah, we were pretty cool back then and really of course we knew the war was a bad idea" talk as 80s/90s conservatives.
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Nov 10, 2021 01:38
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Hellblazer187 posted:I can explain crypto in 30 seconds or less:
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Nov 10, 2021 01:42
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https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1458111440217378818 good god aoc has been thoroughly domesticated by the party 
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Nov 10, 2021 01:50
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1458111440217378818 I figured that was obvious when Pelosi brought her to tears forcing her to change her one vote a couple weeks back even though it made literally no difference to the outcome.
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Nov 10, 2021 01:59
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1458111440217378818 I watched the video attached to the clip and even just watching that showed that the tweet's quote is extremely misleading. The full sentence that they cut off to make it look more inflamatory is "America is back at COP, at, on the International stage, as a leader on climate action and drawdown." And this is true, the United States now has a presence on the International stage as at least recognizing the impact of climate change, even if there is more work that needs to be done. From COP26 posted:“When we pass the Build Back Better Act—I’m going to claim it, when,” AOC said at one point during the panel, eliciting some cheers from the crowd for the confidence that the legislation would clear Washington’s partisan gridlock... She's at once supporting and pressuring the Democrats. I can understand being disappointed by her, but I don't think this equates to domestication.
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Nov 10, 2021 02:02
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Angry_Ed posted:Can't wait for him to try to solve a budget shortfall by selling an NFT of a picture of Madison Square Garden
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Nov 10, 2021 02:06
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